funk1969
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Some things are so easily overlooked...
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Post by funk1969 on Feb 11, 2012 0:58:27 GMT
Bought one, love it but it's a fiddly little thing regarding the fit on your ears. Besides that it's worth the money but only for the sound quality and isolation.
The cable should be detachable and if I have to buy a back up portable headphone, the K181 it is...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2012 9:14:32 GMT
I would say the LCD-2 has better bass but haven't heard them side by side (yet) How the DT1350 sounds depends tremendously on the shape of the ears and how well the pads seal the ears. The bass I heard was indeed lean, tight, balanced and reaching extremely deep. Deeper than HD681-HD250-II-DT770 but not over-emphasized as with them (the HD250-II isn't really over emphasized though). Very 'ortho like', which is what I am looking for.
When I relieve just a little pressure (they clamp firm) the bass starts to disappear and the nasty hollow mids (like I heard with the T50p) start to show. It makes sense as the T50p sounded much better when pressed to the ears when I tried it. The headband of the DT1350 is much sturdier and has more clamping force. The DT1350 sounds very much like a T50p which is positioned correctly and pushed against the ears.
Another thing I noticed is the DT1350 is somewhat less dependent on the position of the ear than T50p is. The T50p only sounded right in 1 exact position and (in my case) pressed against the ear. The DT1350 can move around a tiny bit more while retaining it's character. With the T50p I wasn't able to let the headband rest on my head with the earcups being positioned where they should. My ears are too high up relatively it seems, the DT1350 has a better adjustment range and does 'fit' in that aspect.
The DT1350 is what I hoped the T50p would be.
I bet a lot of the negative issues I see posted (judging from the reported sonic characters) have to do with earshapes/fit/seal
I can try it on different amps but impedance graph clearly shows it MUST be low output resistance otherwise the 3kHz region will be boosted in level. So all my amps will be in the low-Ohm setting (will try the 120Ohm setting also) It will replace my V-Jays on certain occasions when I feel there is little chance of them being stolen. Otherwise the V-Jays or KSC75 will travel.
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Post by dalethorn on Feb 11, 2012 17:33:32 GMT
I heard a few months ago that Beyer updated the earpads and headband on their new T50p's to be more like the DT-1350, but I haven't heard any confirmation recently.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2012 21:32:55 GMT
I have been battling this headphone. Painful ears (because of the pressure after an hour or so), good sound but too analytic and thus boring, good bass but painful ears or low clamping pressure and too little bass. Although technically 'near perfect' sounding I can now see Tyll's point about some music not being 'coherent' and everything is separate.I experience it somewhat different and think they are excellent 'surgical knives' that separate things too well. Voices are completely free from the music, a bit too unattached and great for sound engineers to listen if everything is there and can easily focus on separate aspects of the recording. So more of a 'tool' than hifi headphone for long listening sessions (in stock form).
The pain in the ears after an hour made me experiment with bending the headband (steel) and relieving pressure. Couldn't get it right (frustrating) and when comparing to the V-Jays (filtered and HD25 pads) I took off the HD25 pads and put them on top of the DT1350 pads. They are slightly larger in diameter and velours. They create a better seal with less clamping force and feel more comfortable and have worn them for well over 2 hours without any pressure pain on the ears.
But the real kicker for me (simply adding HD25 pads + bending out the headband) was the bass remains good but the overly present mids (and sometimes highs) are way more balanced and the 'surgical' part is gone and has transformed into a much better listen and now finally musical instead of analytical. Is it down to the late hour or burn-in ? No, when I take of the pads everything is back as it was.
More to follow... I think I leave them this way as they suit my ears as a glove now, musical, soft, excellent extension to both ends, good comfort. Very close to my ortho's (frighteningly close) The V-jays and Koss thingies have finally been replaced by something considerably better.
I almost regretted the purchase late this afternoon, now on the contrary and find the sonic quality to exceed that of more expensive HP's
DT1350, HD25 velourspads and some 'bending'... I love it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2012 21:38:30 GMT
Frans Why don't you send something like what you wrote here to the manufacturer ? Some companies appreciate user feedback. Regards Alex
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Post by dalethorn on Feb 11, 2012 23:11:39 GMT
I sent the link to the above posts to my insider at Beyerdynamic. She is very conscientious and will make sure someone important sees it, Peter maybe.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 8:51:01 GMT
I am sure they are well aware of the 'issues' for hifi usage and read forums about it. The 'verdicts' go from 'impressive' to 'boring' and 'bass light' to 'bassy', 'comfortable' to 'clamping' This all has to do with noggin' size, earshapes, isolation and probably looks. All just my opinion of course.... I hope other owners give the pads a try (will post pics in the future) and give their opinions. Might not work/sound the same fro everyone. For me it does the trick, happy bunny now. a few days before I had plans to put it up for sale... now they stay for sure. difference... HD25 pads on top of original pads and some bending.
The fact there are no other pad options available and are not easily replaced, however, is a feature that is not very professional IMO. That's the only remark I would have for the intended usage. Perhaps if they make a 'home audio version' of it (unlikely as the T50p already serves that purpose) they should change the pads/comfort.
It is targeted as a professional headphone for monitoring purposes so for short usage at a time. As it is now it exactly answers that description.
Description from the Beyer website (in their studio headphones section): Closed supra-aural headphone for control and monitoring applications, musicians and DJ's.
It does fit the bill exactly and does that very well IMO. It's not marketed as a portable audio headphone. The T50p suddenly became it, when reports weren't very favorable in the prof arena.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 10:11:42 GMT
How disappointing, Frans. I guess you've tried putting them backwards so the flaps of your ears go into the cups and the front of the pads rest on that flat bit that goes across the ear? (!!) For a bit of relief on the HD25, I do that.
However, as you say, monitoring 'phones are designed to quickly monitor and take off really.
Great pity because they sound as though they have a good, accurate sound but if a headphone is uncomfortable, then they're not a great deal of use to you.
I've been using the Sony MDR-7506 a great deal more recently. I had a happy accident where I left them at work connected to a radio ....... for months. (Since I got them) I completely forgot because I felt that they were horrible sounding.
I found them chirping away in a box so I took them home again and felt that they weren't that bad actually. The bass seems stronger than I remember so it feels a little more mellow than I remember. It's pretty analytical too, with a slight trace of bass hump but the cups aren't large enough to go over the ears as well.
I first found them seriously uncomfortable, but pushing them back on the head a bit meant that the force was more focused on the 'bone' of my head rather than the flaps of my ears. I make sure that the flaps go inside the cup and don't get flattened by the pads because that's painful after a while as well.
I have a bit of a 'pin' head rather than coconut shape so maybe these types of headphone don't hurt me as much. Great pity about the comfort though because I have been thinking about these for some time, but at that price for a torture device, it's maybe not such a good idea.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 11:40:37 GMT
The first listen in the shop (about 30mins of listening and comparing) they were better than ANY headphone hanging there. It was a very big, musical instruments, based shop (www.feedback.nl).. have a look.. The beyers DT770, DT990 (all on permanent listening so well played in if in doubt), some Shures, HD25, HD280, HD380, KRK, Sony7509 and some others I tried. I admit the DT1350 were the most expensive ones in the comparison. So I bought the one I listened to and at home still sounded excellent BUT analytical and not so much musical if you understand what I am saying. Technically excellent voices you would REALLY love, separated nothing is 'blended' everything in its place. Then after an hour or so the 'hurt' and sense it's a surgical instrument because of the mids being so 'loose'. Not musical in the sense of other beyers.. but technically more accurate. Pianos sounding like pianos, voices real and separated, bad recordings sound bad (not so much with DT770/DT990) good recordings sounding excellent but 'lifeless, clinical not musical. tried various positions on th ear e.t.c.. Too much pressure needed to get the bass in proper level (seal) on a too small surface. So bending the headband reduced the force but also the seal thus less low-end which I liked. This is because the pads are not very thick and run out of 'material' to seal properly. To remedy this I added (so the original pads are still there too and also compress) the HD25 velours pads which can be compressed more and bent the headband a little wider to compensate for the added thickness of the pads. See pic below, left without HD25 pad, on the right with extra pad. This changed EVERYTHING for ME. good comfort (not so much pressure so no pain anymore), good seal (larger diameter and more compliant pads) so good bass and at the same time (more distance/air volume between driver and ear ?) the sound signature changed from analytical to more musical while retaining the laser like precision. It seems much more balanced and now sounds close to my ortho. deep lows and wonderful highs with no appearant missing or emphasized parts. Call me impressed ... ortho like qualities in a small 'normal' on ear headphone. All in all it began as 'wow' went to 'wish I hadn't bought it' to 'wowww' again with the addition of 2 pads and some bending. Judging from the way piano's sound and voices sound you will like it, with the needed bending and added pads that is.
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Post by henrik on Feb 12, 2012 21:01:22 GMT
Are you keeping the old pads on?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 22:05:29 GMT
yes, they go right on top of the old pads. have to bend the headband outwards a bit to compensate though. When done carefully, this is not problem.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2012 20:05:19 GMT
Review DT1350 (with HD25 pads on top of the original pads) For comparison purposes I have at hand: HD650 (foam removed), HD580, (foam removed), DT990 (old 600 Ohms), SFI drivers in DT990 housing, modded HD681, HD238 (modded to lower the bass level), KSC35 (foam cutout), V-jays (stock). Amps: TxAmp (10 and 120 Ohm out), CHAmp (0 and 100 Ohm out), OPA-88 hybrid (0 Ohm and 120Ohm) various types of music/formats. Comfort: (best to worse) DT990-HD650-HD580-HD238-DT1350-KSC35/75-V-Jays . This DT1350 has velour pads on TOP OF the original pads and is reviewed as such. This lowers the bass a tiny bit, the (mildly over)emphasized lower mids get a little less emphasized because of this also which is a good thing. Because the surface of the soft velour pads is bigger, I get a good seal with the impression of less force on the ears yet retain the deepest lows which are fabulous and IMO only rivaled by the likes of HiFi-man and Audeze ortho's. It sacrifices some isolation and bass impact. The bass is excellent in level, tightness, quantity and above all quality. Bass is only present when it is in the music and never bloated nor emphasized. Extraordinary performance, not only because of it's size. No one-note bass here. It's not as pronounced as HD681, even-though mine is also modded to have less bass than a stock one. It is much better than my SFI ortho thingy, but only in the bottom extension it is . Mids (voices, instruments) is very forward and open sounding. I would say even emphasized a bit so everything jumps out. Perhaps a little less would have been ideal. Together with the clamping force my only gripe but can live with it as it is merely an non-annoying coloration where you get used to very quickly. The highs are not recessed and also not emphasized as with many top level headphones, giving the impression of more details. The extension and level of highs is exactly where I want them. The DT1350 is highly portable and can be driven quite loud even directly from a Sansa Fuze without needing an extra amp. For portable it is meant to replace the V-jays, KSC35/75, HD238. It trounces them in EVERY area. The V-jays will be leaving the collection. The KSC35/75 remains, The HD238 went to a family member. I know I posted the DT1350 is only usable for low-Ohmic amps but when trying the 120 Ohm outputs of my amps I found the DT1350 to perform a tiny bit better. The bass remains exactly the same (the impedance doesn't rise there at all) and this shows, at least to me, that the whole damping factor story is indeed nonsense as the bass doesn't alter for the worse. According to some noted designers most headphones sound worse on higher output resistances. I was also surprised to notice it actually sounds better on high-Ohmic amps. Note that a resistance of 30 to 50 Ohm is hardly noticeable at all. At 2kHz there is a very small rise in the impedance of the DT1350 (a resonance point) but varies only a tiny bit. Above 10kHz the impedances rises also a tiny bit. The DT1350 has pronounced mids and lower mids and could do with a small bit of extra between 1kHz and 3kHz. The impedance rise at 120 Ohm output resistance boosts the 2kHz area by approximately 1dB and above 10kHz (to 20 kHz) about 0.9dB. This is very little but noticeable by slightly more realistic (musical) voices and instruments and smoother highs that appear to extend slightly further. I am talking minute differences here that can just be observed/heard with A-B testing. Now how can the sound best be described or is closest to any of my other headphones I know well. It comes closest to the SFI-ortho but the lower mids are mildly over-emphasized with the DT1350 but the bass of the DT1350 is superior. Of course this is no reference but the SFI (aside from the lows) is somewhere between the LCD2(rev-1) and HE-500 leaning slightly more towards the HE500 in the highs than LCD-2. The sound might be best described as a DT990 but without the 'sucked out' mids. The DT990 (old 600 Ohm version) is sucked out in the mids which is one of my only gripes. The current DT990 pro is less sucked out though. A good description would be a DT990 but with the mids of a HD580/HD600. Perhaps a more fun (modded HD681 alike) HD600 with lovely forward mids and much better bass, silkier and more expanded highs. I prefer this headphone (except for the wearing comfort) above all my other dynamic headphones and performs only marginally less than my ortho. I use it with 120 Ohm output and think the A1 beyer amp or Style Audio Carat Ruby-II (both 100 Ohm) will pair very well. The sound is only marginally better (more musical I would say) than with low Ohmic amps so can also be used quite well with most other amps. It doesn't even need an amp for most portable gear unless you want it to play loud. Loud it can can and remains 'nice' even up to higher levels when amped. Don't use too powerful amps as the voice-coil is only rated for 100mW. This is one headphone I have not regretted buying even at the relatively high price (I did for a short moment when my ears started to hurt). Add the HD25 pads to the price as well. It will be used most often as it comes close to my ortho but at the same time is highly portable. Well worth the money to me. Not for bass-heads or people that like extra highs. bottom line: positive: Looks/finish . Very well balanced (very realistic) sounding headphone with a mild emphasis in the lower mids to mids, but not deal-breaking much, so you get 'used' to it quickly and only 'shows' when reverting back to other headphones. I never get the impression I am listening to closed cans. Extremely revealing and unforgiving. Slightly more to the analytical than musical/leisure side of listening experiences. Highly recommended for professional use or those that want to know if a recording is any good or not. negative: Clamping force, you will have to adjust yourself by bending the steel headband carefully. I understand not everyone's noggin' has the same size/shape and has all to do with that.Flimsy, thin, not easily replaceable and slightly microphonic cable that tangles easily. I am not suggesting a thicker cable, just one that can be replaced easily.Pads are 'stuck' on the earpieces with double sided sticky tape. Plastic sheets on the headband easily come off when bending the headband. One of the name plates (also stuck on with double sided sticky tape) fell off by itself. P.S. For those wondering if the T50P will be about just as good... it's not. To me they are VERY different headphones in a LOT of aspects. The DT1350 is a MUCH better headphone than the T50P.
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Post by dalethorn on Feb 15, 2012 23:43:35 GMT
Based on what I know of the DT-1350, this sounds like really great news. I didn't hear anything from Beyer corporate yet, but the person I contacted replied twice, so the message got delivered.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 12:59:13 GMT
So apart from the cosmetic build quality you feel these are a positive step up from the Portopro`s Frans and well worth a listen!!.
Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 13:52:25 GMT
The use of double sided sticky tape to hold pads and other things on isn't too good in headphone at this level though. Of all makers, I would have thought that Beyer would have paid attention to the details of build quality tbh. Normally, their headphones are built like tanks, but if this one is taken out on a hot sunny day, those pads could move and slide about. (?)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 14:32:07 GMT
@ Mick, For me personally the D1350 was worth the price as it is much closer to ortho sound. The KSC35/KSC75 (PortaPro) also stay. I can get equal amounts of 'sonic enjoyment' out of both types for different reasons.
The DT1350 is sonically (to me significantly) better but the pressure on the ears and pads are the biggest 'but' for me.... The PortoPro fit/comfort is way better and sound signature isn't very different. If the price vs sound difference is worth it is personal. Seeing how you can justify the price difference between HE-6 and HE500 makes me suspect you might like the DT1350.... but beware of the clampingforce/fit. Wouldn't buy one (and didn't) without auditioning them especially for the fit/comfort issue.
The portapro is easier for me to 'tune into' and is totally believable for me. The DT1350 takes me some more time to tune into and is more dependent on recording quality.
The DT1350 is too expensive (for me) to walk around and take it anywhere. The PortaPro isn't a huge financial loss if stolen or damaged.
See it as Phonitor vs Zigis. Both perform very well but there are differences.
@ Ian, The pads are very hard to take off and are also 'embedded' in the sides. No moving around/sliding or pads falling off in any case.
The name shields are also taped on and found one in the carrying case as it simply had fallen off. The carrying case could have been less 'tight'.
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Post by dalethorn on Feb 16, 2012 15:31:29 GMT
The use of double sided sticky tape to hold pads and other things on isn't too good in headphone at this level though. Of all makers, I would have thought that Beyer would have paid attention to the details of build quality tbh. Normally, their headphones are built like tanks, but if this one is taken out on a hot sunny day, those pads could move and slide about. (?) The oval pads they issue for their DT-48 series are like that too - sticky tape. They have no tendency to move or fall off after months of use indoors as far as I can tell, but I haven't had them out in hot weather yet.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 16:35:24 GMT
The use of double sided sticky tape to hold pads and other things on isn't too good in headphone at this level though. Of all makers, I would have thought that Beyer would have paid attention to the details of build quality tbh. Normally, their headphones are built like tanks, but if this one is taken out on a hot sunny day, those pads could move and slide about. (?) Yes at the asking price i totally agree Ian, portable HP`s should be built to withstand a certain amount of knocks within reason, and certainly should not have labels coming adrift from new in the packaging. Mick.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 17:03:27 GMT
The use of double sided sticky tape to hold pads and other things on isn't too good in headphone at this level though. Of all makers, I would have thought that Beyer would have paid attention to the details of build quality tbh. Normally, their headphones are built like tanks, but if this one is taken out on a hot sunny day, those pads could move and slide about. (?) The oval pads they issue for their DT-48 series are like that too - sticky tape. They have no tendency to move or fall off after months of use indoors as far as I can tell, but I haven't had them out in hot weather yet. What I'm thinking are the ways that the headphone would be used because of its size/quality. For someone like me, having a high quality portable headphone is really attractive but when I go say, abroad, when I most want my music, the heat in somewhere like Spain could get to them if you sit outdoors on a beach or go out with them on your head in the sun, making the adhesive a bit slippy. Also with time, it could come away I guess. So it looks as though it would need to stay indoors which kind of isn't what you'd think it was for. HD25 - although they clamp, are acceptable sounding but they are also designed to be moved around and take a lot of abuse. (Even down to that clamped steel wire to the plug) They've been designed for the purpose whereas I get the impression that the Beyers are designed to sound good, but not exactly designed for portable perhaps. It's things like that I don't like on headphones and Frans has spotted perhaps a weak area in a portable headphone imo. Especially given the price of them. As audio people, we tend to focus purely on sound without thinking about the applications of different types of headphones. I don't like the idea of stuck down parts on a £200+ pair of portable headphones.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 20:08:21 GMT
Indeed, and on top of that it is targeted as a professional headphone. Ian knows how much punishment it should be able to withstand in the professional music business. I don't see this happening with the HD25 !
I do believe the pads won't come off by themselves and the quality feel of it does want to make you treat it with respect. I intend to use it at home and on vacation, won't even consider taking it to my work or anyplace else (like in a train or something).
It's something that has to be weighed... sound quality versus ruggedness. IMO the DT1350 is miles ahead of the HD25, not comparable in any way (sound wise that is).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 20:37:17 GMT
Yes Frans, i think most of us take care with our HP`s, i certainly treat mine with "kid gloves" even the cheapest i have, "portable" or not.
I will speak to my contact tomorrow, should be able to get hold of a pr for me to try.
Mick.
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Post by slwiser on Feb 16, 2012 23:06:14 GMT
I have the DT1350, HD25-1 and the ATH-ESW10JPN and the DT1350 is my pick of these when balanced. I can go single ended with either the DT1350 or HD25 and the HD25 is my preference with using the ALO Continental V2 single ended. Both have a great sound, very enjoyable to me. Not as good as the HD800 with the Phonitor that I have but I will not take these to work with me.
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Post by dalethorn on Feb 16, 2012 23:30:23 GMT
Since my Vmoda M80 broke 2 days ago and it will probably be a month before I see it again (if ever), and I don't have another portable headphone, I went ahead and ordered another DT-1350 for delivery tomorrow. So I'll go over it with a microscope and report what the latest looks like and sounds like. Hopefully it will be new stock, from HeadRoom, and not some rebuild since they're charging full price.
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XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 17, 2012 7:26:31 GMT
The DT1350 is too expensive (for me) to walk around and take it anywhere. The PortaPro isn't a huge financial loss if stolen or damaged. So where are your highend and only one in the world diy HPs?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2012 7:37:38 GMT
They are committed to a mains power supply. So hardly portable... If you mean: 'where are they, can I see them' rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=review&action=display&thread=6125&page=3 (reply #58) They have been fine tuned since then and improved sonically. I have NO high-end gear (the proper low end gear/DIY can sound equally good). The DT1350 is the most expensive HP I have (I know... it's sad). The SFI headphone is not the only one in existence. Built in a DT990 housing with DT330 baffles and dedicated (filtered) amp does make it a one off I guess, unless someone already copied it. The PortaPro I don't have anymore, the KSC35/75 work better for me personally. Whether one prefers the DT1350 or HD25 comes down to taste/musical genre I guess. technically the DT1350 has the edge and sonically to me the differences are big in favor of the DT1350. never cared much for the HD25 sound, no matter how hard and often I tried/auditioned but can understand why many do. The lack of highs extension and bumby frequency graph simply doesn't do it for me as a universal headphone. The DT1350 can be used more universal. The HD25 only sounds good on some types of music alone. personal taste....
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