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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 16, 2010 22:20:19 GMT
Ian... I think you'l like these Listening to Led ZePP right now.... gorgeous
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2010 22:30:18 GMT
OK Lovey, I'm listening to Shpongle. I was listening to Zep IV last night actually. So different (and revealing) on modern gear. Even down to John's squeaky bass drum pedal. He had this habit of not oling the mechanics of the pedal so you'd hear a little squeak coming from it. Quite funny. I heard the first performance of Stairway at the BBC. We sat there thinking - jeez, when does it end? I loved their more intimate concerts. Really good and it's also funny how your tastes change. I remember hating Zep III when it came out and now I love the album.
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Post by yellowjeep on Dec 16, 2010 22:31:24 GMT
No apeshitting here man. I'm really happy that you were able to make them work so well. I was getting a little worried that they might be crap especially since I was the one who linked to them originally.
Mostly I was just asking for impressions, your's, Ian's or other wise to tide be over because my donor phones won't be here till next week. Just excited thats all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2010 22:34:49 GMT
Nah .... Mike's a talented geezer who listens very carefully on the quiet!! I think that we have similar ears and tastes so his descriptions normally match with my own impressions funnily enough!! There's luck for you eh? I think both of us are into OS. (Organic sounds) (well that's the clean version anyway)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2010 22:50:47 GMT
OK Mike. Thanks. I'll look forward to hearing them. They sound like little rockmeisters.
The snow has reached us again all the way down here!! I got hit by a snowflake and it nearly put me out.
Looks terrible up there in some places on the roads.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 17, 2010 10:03:44 GMT
I am also very curious to hear your impressions on the sound, Mike. Nick I'll go into detail as soon as my pair have been "holed" and get a few hours on them. Funny, the one thing that is slightly lacking with these drivers is treble... it's there but is ever so smoooooooth.... so far, that's the only way I can describe the sound ........."smooth".
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 17, 2010 10:48:53 GMT
Ian..... I don't have any more of those SFI drivers so please don't send me a pair of Kanen 'phones, they will only gather dust.
Mike.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2010 12:57:42 GMT
Ian..... I don't have any more of those SFI drivers so please don't send me a pair of Kanen 'phones, they will only gather dust. Mike. I'll get a couple of drivers if you want them Mike, no worries. Also, do you want to try fitting the sr60 drivers from my horrible Igrado to try?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2010 19:30:14 GMT
The SFI drivers used are the 32 Ohm versions of this tweeter and NOT the 120 Ohm version as used by others. I have ordered these 120 Ohm versions too so can compare somewhere early 2011. I suspect the 32 Ohm to be real tweeters and they act as such. Everything below 150Hz is simply not present. The membrane is obviously stretched quite tight as can be seen from the resonance around 170-200 Hz and thus everything below it drops of at about 6dB/oct. So 'honky' mids (because of the peak) and NO bass at all. Even the cheap free airline headphones have MUCH more bass then these. No matter in which housing (closed or open) you put it in and which pad type you use there is simply no bass at all, no mid bass either. No problem when used as tweeters because they would be used from 5kHz. Still... I had them and playing with an equaliser it was possible to get some decent bass. The mids and highs are very good from these drivers. They are 32 Ohm and highly inefficient and needed at least 15 dB bass lift to sound good so I had to design and built an amp that could deliver at least the needed power in 32 Ohm. I modified my tube amp design (took the tube out and placed a filter) and increased the output power so it can deliver 2.5 Watt into 32 Ohm. With very much listening sessions and iterations in the filter design I managed to construct a filter that corrects the deficiencies of these 32 Ohm drivers. The filter is in the white circle. Because I was in the process of making it dedicated I decided to give it an HD250-II type presentation as the mids and highs of these drivers are simply excellent. Silky yet powerfull highs without any sibilance and mids to match. The mid lows are 'honky' so I took the correction a bit further to obtain the HD-250 signature. Those that tried my 'make your HD650 sound like an HD250-II EQ settings will know what I mean. The bass was compensated and even lifted a bit in the 30-50 Hz region just like the HD250-II. Since I wanted to get the most out of the SFI drivers and tried various open and closed possiblities it became appearant these drivers particalurly like open and semi-open housings. The SFI drivers were thus implanted in a Beyerdynamic DT-990 housing. There had been Sytronics drivers in it but never was particular fond of the sound of these drivers. They did sound better in the DT990 housing but still not as good as other cans I use. Advantages of the DT990 housings are it's OPEN or at least semi-open is circumaural, has a very nice fit and nice soft velours pads and a sturdy built and no microphonic cables. I did not glue them into place but they are pressed in the housing with rubber in between. This way they sit tight and are sonically isolated. In the picture you can see the driver, normally the foam disc lying in the middle of the HP is installed. So how does it sound and was it worth it. Well the bass extension is excellent now and goes down to 30 Hz (-3dB). The mids and highs are simply gorgeous and yes... I have to admit in the mids and highs my HD681 are beaten, not in the bass extension though as the HD681 goes lower than 20 Hz. For now I prefer this headphone over my other cans, at least for now till I start hearing it's flaws. The presentation is much alike the HD250-II (as far as I can remember them). I posted the schematics of the filter and amp but is a pretty useless excercise as all other RG members have the (I suspect very different sounding) 120 Ohm versions and the filtering is also dependent on the housing and pads as well as personal preferences. It's not easy to copy/build anyway as there is no kit for it.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 17, 2010 19:58:47 GMT
Ian, I was standing at the side of the road waiting for the bus today and it didn't turn up.... I phoned them and NONE of the buses were running as they couldn't get them started due to the cold.... apparantly the diesel had turned "waxy" and wouldn't flow..... yikes Most of the roads are pretty much blocked, there was no postman either (first time he's been unable to do his rounds.... I've seen him here with 4 foot of snow on the ground).... apparantly, most of the shops in town were closed too. Not sure the "weather" was just an excuse though It's "Mad Friday" up here (a traditional thing) where the entire town gets drunk out of their faces so I'm thinking more along the lines of an unofficial "day off" rather than "severe weather". NOTHING (this far North) causes disruption when it comes to "weather", they are pretty well organised with snow ploughs and gritters, so I do think the weather was just an excuse to call the day off and go and get pished..... IIRC, last "Mad Friday" also threw up a few "excuses" for services not running... seems everybody had a severe dose of "flu" I don't know why they don't just declare it as a local holiday.... it's a tradition that goes back centuries with the locals.... the only bummer is I can't get into town to join them A couple of years ago I was up on a table dancing with a semi naked girl.... it was a great night! Essentially, it's "free booze" (bring your own) and the entire town has one Huge PARTY.... good traditional music too! Anyways, just to let you know I couldn't get in with your package as the diesel in the buses had "frozen" There's a bi monthly "Saturday bus" tomorrow (runs on two saturdays per month) so I'll get in on that if the diesel has defrosted (or if there are any sober drivers available).... you've just got to love this place
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 17, 2010 20:17:55 GMT
The SFI drivers used are the 32 Ohm versions of this tweeter and NOT the 120 Ohm version as used by others. I have ordered these 120 Ohm versions too so can compare somewhere early 2011. I suspect the 32 Ohm to be real tweeters and they act as such. Everything below 150Hz is simply not present. The membrane is obviously stretched quite tight as can be seen from the resonance around 170-200 Hz and thus everything below it drops of at about 6dB/oct. So 'honky' mids (because of the peak) and NO bass at all. Even the cheap free airline headphones have MUCH more bass then these. No matter in which housing (closed or open) you put it in and which pad type you use there is simply no bass at all, no mid bass either. No problem when used as tweeters because they would be used from 5kHz. Still... I had them and playing with an equaliser it was possible to get some decent bass. The mids and highs are very good from these drivers. They are 32 Ohm and highly inefficient and needed at least 15 dB bass lift to sound good so I had to design and built an amp that could deliver at least the needed power in 32 Ohm. I modified my tube amp design (took the tube out and placed a filter) and increased the output power so it can deliver 2.5 Watt into 32 Ohm. With very much listening sessions and iterations in the filter design I managed to construct a filter that corrects the deficiencies of these 32 Ohm drivers. The filter is in the white circle. Because I was in the process of making it dedicated I decided to give it an HD250-II type presentation as the mids and highs of these drivers are simply excellent. Silky yet powerfull highs without any sibilance and mids to match. The mid lows are 'honky' so I took the correction a bit further to obtain the HD-250 signature. Those that tried my 'make your HD650 sound like an HD250-II EQ settings will know what I mean. The bass was compensated and even lifted a bit in the 30-50 Hz region just like the HD250-II. Since I wanted to get the most out of the SFI drivers and tried various open and closed possiblities it became appearant these drivers particalurly like open and semi-open housings. The SFI drivers were thus implanted in a Beyerdynamic DT-990 housing. There had been Sytronics drivers in it but never was particular fond of the sound of these drivers. They did sound better in the DT990 housing but still not as good as other cans I use. Advantages of the DT990 housings are it's OPEN or at least semi-open is circumaural, has a very nice fit and nice soft velours pads and a sturdy built and no microphonic cables. I did not glue them into place but they are pressed in the housing with rubber in between. This way they sit tight and are sonically isolated. In the picture you can see the driver, normally the foam disc lying in the middle of the HP is installed. So how does it sound and was it worth it. Well the bass extension is excellent now and goes down to 30 Hz (-3dB). The mids and highs are simply gorgeous and yes... I have to admit in the mids and highs my HD681 are beaten, not in the bass extension though as the HD681 goes lower then 20 Hz. For now I prefer this headphone over my other cans, at least for now till I start hearing it's flaws. The presentation is much alike the HD250-II (as far as I can remember them). I could post the schematics of the filter and amp but is a pretty useless excercise as all other RG members have the (I suspect very different sounding) 120 Ohm versions and the filtering is also dependent on the housing and pads as well as personal preferences. It's not easy to copy/build anyway as there is no kit for it. Frans, As you know, I got the 120ohm versions and it seems the opposite way around with them! they are MASSIVE in the bass department but the "treble" is slightly rolled off. To be quite blunt, I'm not sure I like the presentation. The more I have them on my head the more I feel something is not quite right..... they just sound way too lounge lizard, laid back, organic honey, ear muffy and syrupy to my ears. Swap over to the HD-250 and you hear a welcome "sparkle" to the presentation.... of course, I am just squeezing glue and applying glue like a trained monkey so am probably not getting the full potential out of them Not the kind of presentation I am used to, I must confess, but maybe this is "the" ortho sound? Everytime I read a review about ortho 'phones the word "smoothness" crops up over and over again..... I love a "warm" presentation but these things err on the warmer side of "warm".... way too warm for my taste Ian, please don't buy another set of these drivers for me.... I have SO much to do before the New year and just couldn't cope with being sidetracked..... My computer is on it's way back to me but I doubt it will get here in the bad weather..... when it "does" arrive I'll have to reinstall everything, they have formatted the HD, I've been working on a new version of my power supply and details of it will have to be put on the website..... I'm "trying" to have a bit of a rest this Christmas but there's always something to do Don't sit down, it's time to dig another one...... applies to most of us doesn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2010 20:45:58 GMT
No worries Mike. The weather is about to hit us big time here and even so, we still aren't receiving post in any case!! Parcels are held up due to backlog so a lot of stuff won't get to their destinations now before Christmas so it may be as well. Keep yourself steady tonight. Naked women in that weather? Jeez, they must be nuts!!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 17, 2010 21:56:12 GMT
"Semi" naked..... they keep their legs warm with black stockings..... the top section they cover in lard On a serious note... you never see anybody in "suits" up here.... everybody dresses for the climate and it's not a "fashion parade"...... I love it!.... see the person "not" his clothes..... I've got about an inch of beard going on now (AND GROWING) and it feels so good getting down with the seasons....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2010 22:53:03 GMT
here's one of me this winter, wearing the V-Can.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2010 23:09:06 GMT
here's one of me this winter, wearing the V-Can. Are you related to Chaz by any chance ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2010 8:05:38 GMT
here's one of me this winter, wearing the V-Can. Are you related to Chaz by any chance ? ;D ;D ;D ;D On a more serious note. I too think the SFI drivers have some negatives. They are not dumped on fleebay for no reason. my main concern is the sensitivity to temperature. I suspect the used plastic for the diafragm to be (very) temperature sesnitive. It stretches when warm (so loosens up in the middle because it is fixed at the edges) and it tightens on lower temperatures. Not much of a problem when used as a tweeter but it is when used as a full range HP driver. I also noticed a 'more then usual' change in lows presentation when warmed up. It having low efficiency and me pumping in guite some power (32 Ohm version) warms it up even more. The filter is designed to perform optimally when 'warmed up'. An advantage of the 32 Ohm driver is it is probably stretched more tightly then the 120 Ohm (a theory) and the filter I used also brings phase shifts in the 60 - 250Hz region it is not ideal. a fun excercise though. And the seller got rid of most of his junk because of this thread as I noticed the number of buys went up considerably. Mike's description of the sound of the 120 Ohm sounds a lot like the Technics ortho I used a lot 25 years ago. I am still not done with these SFI drivers as there is still damping to be considered and blocking holes in the driver, which the Kamen body does too as the holes in the plastic are probably not lined up with those of the driver itself. Also waiting to explore the 120 Ohm drivers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2010 8:51:58 GMT
I'll have a really close listen when I hear it Frans. It's interesting that Mike spotted differences with temperature change and I thought that a bit odd and then put it down to the wide variation of indoor/outdoor temperatures that he has up there!! (Mind you, we're not doing to well now in the south) This is a daft question, but I don't care. What does SFI actually stand for? I'm sure people would be interested but won't ask!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2010 9:10:56 GMT
Perhaps SawaFuj Industries (the manufacturer in those days) found the bass of these drivers:
Simply Fekkin' Irritating ?
The headphones they made all had names with SF stands for : super fantastic, simply fabulous ?
they were all open ortho headphones and earpad type with small soundchamber in front of the driver (similar to Mikes latest creation).
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 18, 2010 12:15:19 GMT
No bus today either Ian.... lucky for you though!...... I was thinking what Frans said and cannot BELIEVE I overlooked the obvious..... the holes on the drivers were NOT matching up with the holes on the housing! No way of realigning them as the drivers are epoxy resined into position. Out with the dremel and a circular cutting disc, very carefully cut the perforated plastic out, without cutting into the drivers, so now there is nothing between the SFI and your ear..... The result? WOW!!!! prepare to cream your pants Ian! Anybody else contemplating using the Kanen as donors..... I would recommend you saw the centre of the housing out "before" fitting the drivers, makes for a tidier job I can safely say that these 'phones are up there with the best of them
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2010 12:44:07 GMT
They won't get here until well after Christmas in any case Mike. I think all the postmen have been knocked out by falling snowflakes and are recovering in A&E. We've had some serious stuff today and no deliveries.
Mike, if you want to keep a pair, there is no problem for me to get drivers and send the Kanens. (If they ever get here)
It sounds as though you've hit jackpot for this type of driver in any case. I think they look great as well. Your a genius with wood as well. I loved the Grado jobbie and again, that was an amazingly neat job. Great attention to detail.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 18, 2010 13:01:05 GMT
Not sure about this Cardas cable but the unit is fully sealed now so I can't remove it.... compared to my pair (stock cable) the cardas seems to add a touch of smoothness (you may like it).... I'll leave yours playing away over the weekend and will spend next day special deliver on Tuesday so you should have them on Wednesday. Nothing to the wood Ian..... a 20mm hole cutter and a drill, a bit of sandpaper and some black bison..... 2 minutes work Do you have a DT-770 headband? If not I will fit my one on for you, they really do need it in place for comfort. Mike.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 18, 2010 13:15:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2010 15:08:31 GMT
No, I haven't got a spare Beyer headband Mike. Don't worry. Leave it off and I'll get one. Don't forget, I have a load of hair.
I'll paypal the drivers Mike. Send the PP email and when the two pairs arrive, I'll send them up. At least you'd have different variations to compare.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 18, 2010 15:32:03 GMT
One thing about these, you'll have to crank your Panda up to 2 o' clock - 4 o' clock to get a "decent" level.... touch Yello is fine @ 12 o' clock but something like the race needs more like 4 o'clock to get those drivers really singing Listening to the race at the moment and it's cranked up to max volume.... it's loud but it's a comfortable type of loud. They're not the most sensitive of things but once the amp gets a grip of them they are fine... just be prepared to crank the volco a bit more
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 18, 2010 15:37:47 GMT
A PERFECT demo track (which really shows the capabilities of these 'phones) is Yello's "La Habanera".... crank the Panda up to 2 o' clock, sit back and enjoy Bass? PLENTY of it
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