XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Feb 25, 2012 4:47:33 GMT
cable microphony and the fact one faceplate wasn't pressed on there hard enough during assembly (the worker was probably being carefull) doesn't make it a bad product or below par quality. How much quality control does one need to check how well something was stuck on there ? How do you test ? If it doesn't fall off during construction it will pass quality control. It certainly doesn't weigh as heavy as the excellent audio quality and looks/feel. The Process and QC engineers must have a corrective action for that. It's not something difficult. Perhaps, the tapes are not strong enough. Just ECN (Engineering Change Notice) to the BOM specs or put in a process that the operator will check like a pull test will solve the problem. Don't forget we are dealing with USD 250 to 300 bucks product. When I was in Seagate, those IBM drives were given extra higher specs to clear before they could be considered an IBM HDD as they paid more for each OEM HDD. The rest passing lower specs went to the other customers. Those HDDs were actually the same HDDs and configuration.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 7:38:52 GMT
Since no-one else has had complaints about faceplates falling off (nor about the T50p) and it only happened on 1 earcup (the other one doesn't come off easily at all) I think I simply have a monday morning product where 1 faceplate simply wasn't pressed on heard enough. I do not have the idea Beyerdynamic is conning people by marketing sub standard HP's knowing faceplates could fall off at any given time. I give them a little more credit since production runs will be quite small and they aren't sold as OEM products to other brands. At least that is my take on it. I will revise my views when more people start complaining about it. I believe the built quality is well above that of most headphones as is the sound quality. There are no 'perfect' headphones to be found, certainly not around the $ 300 price mark. There will always be some 'flaws', the question is could one live with it or find one not so well taped on faceplate a deal breaker for an otherwise fine product.
|
|
|
Post by dalethorn on Feb 25, 2012 7:57:03 GMT
I had one last April and I missed it after I let it go. When my Vmoda M80 broke, I really needed another portable right away, so I thought long and hard about everything I knew, in case I could come up with another headphone, but in the end the 1350 won out.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 8:13:54 GMT
I agree with you, Frans. It is a minor and rare issue.
It's the way that the pads are attached that seems strange. I think they're also stuck down? Not so good for changing pads since I would guess that once you pull them off, they might lose their stickiness so it's new ones really. I'd rather have them fixed in some other way. Especially if they were used in a pro situation, where everyone around would be using them.
However. I can't see them being used in studios other than home ones where the same person uses them, if you see what I mean.
Some musicians just don't wash their hair too often!!!! ;-)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 9:10:30 GMT
I haven't heard them side by side but did listen to the T50p for some time and compared it to my own HD650 and HD681 and some other headphones on my own amp/player. It WAS able to sound reasonable to good, but you had to press the cups on your ears. Still it had a strange 'honky' mids and although it did have 'something' that I found appealing. The fit (couldn't get it to stay on my ears while the headband rested on my head) and the fact you had to pressure them on the ears and also was very sensitive to positioning (MUCH more so than DT1350) and the VFM put me off. They looked nice though. The T50p did show to have potential but just isn't IT, and certainly wasn't worth the money to me. It doesn't measure evry well either but quite possible it didn't do so because the fit on the artificial head is far from ideal as well. I thought the DT1350 may be marginally better so when I found one I could audition I did. The negatives of the T50p, the fit, clamping force, positioning and overall sound, were MUCH improved for my personal usage and instantly liked the sound (did hear the mid lows and mids were slightly accentuated, especilally on direct comparison with DT770, DT990 and HD280 I know well they had hanging around as well but rather liked it. Since I had only about 30 mins with it and swapped headphones the rather high clamping force struck me as fierce though no pain set in. Also perhaps because it is an early version and swapped HP's to compare with different music. So for me the difference between the 2 is quite obvious and the DT1350 is MUCH better in all aspects. The price difference doesn't say so but for me the VFM of the DT1350 shot upwards so bought it. regretted it for a short while till playing with pads and clamping force took away the remaining but's. mechanically the biggest differences are headband ( completely different/better in construction though don't look different), pads (the newer T50p's have DT1350 pads), driver seems improved (claimed by Beyer) and certainly sounds MUCH better, DT1350 is single entry, T50p dual entry, color scheme. Ok Frans, Thank you. Going to have a listen to the T50`s this afternoon, hopefully the 1350`s will be available for audition sometime next week. Mick.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 9:29:28 GMT
The ear cups are borrowed from the T50p which is also available in 'manufaktur' where you can choose different earcup colors and a lot of different shields. They do not supply loose shields (like V-Moda) so are not intended to replace them yourself. a '1 stick' action so to speak. Most prof headphones indeed have easy to remove pads and Beyerdynamic even has different kinds of pads for some of their headphones (velour, pleather, gel, thick vinyl) which suggest they should be taken off and mounted easily to swap. In prof environments indeed for hygienic reasons a very good cause. I completely agree sticking them on isn't very professional. Strange part is even the (very professional) DT48 also has their pads stuck on with double sided sticky tape. The rubber ones (DT48A) can be easily cleaned though so probably won't need much replacing. In the DT1350 case there are no different kinds of pads available and indeed the appear to be only replaceable and not removable. Pleather you can wipe but not wash and isn't very hygienic indeed when more than 1 person uses it. As this headphone (much more so than over-ear types) depends on having a good seal they probably decided to only make it replaceable. In that case sticky tape will do. I fully agree it isn't very professional, the non-exchangeable pads, for hygienic reasons in the first place and the choice of pleather. It's indeed the biggest 'I am not suited for professional use' shout it has, and if I were Beyerdynamic I surely would consider upgrading that aspect (and a detachable cord that comes off when yanked hard) if I wanted to market it as a professional headphone. It has a few 'prof traits' but on a lot more things it seems more a 'higher end' home/portable headphone than a professional one. Luckily it's what I use it for and my pads won't get much dirt on it as they are covered with replaceable HD25 velour pads !
|
|
funk1969
250+
Some things are so easily overlooked...
Posts: 481
|
Post by funk1969 on Feb 26, 2012 10:39:52 GMT
Even Shure worked this issue out with the 840.
Maybe Beyerdynamic has a lot of faith in its cables...
|
|
|
Post by slwiser on Mar 14, 2012 10:23:10 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 20:11:43 GMT
Thanks,
There isn't much info on the HP outside Tyll's graphs. Glad you found someone that can test. It verifies what I thought I could hear. a considerable drop in the 'offensive' area 100Hz to 300Hz of around 7dB (which gives the 'hollow' sound Dale also found and EQ's out) while still having very deep bass (extension).
It seems to follow the 'Golden-ears' green line pretty well as you said at the linked site. The rest didn't change much, except for the comfort (which was my main goal) above 10kHz some changes also which is to be expected. It seems the added HD25 pads are also appreciated at other sites.
Purrins response: Golden Ear FR curves and my curves have been more or less consistent. Tyll's curves always seem to have a lower treble suckout and mid treble peak no matter the headphone. Is pretty much what I concluded as well (see other posts)
|
|
|
Post by dalethorn on Mar 14, 2012 22:11:49 GMT
Earpads other than the default pads might be best to get a good bass seal. In warm weather I don't have a problem, but when it's cool and dry, the regular pads aren't sticking to my ears until I've had them on for 5-10 minutes. Sticking might not be the best word to describe a good seal, but it's all I can think of.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 6:17:56 GMT
The whole point of the HD25 pads on top of the other pads is to. a: improve comfort (velours+bigger size is better spread of pressure) b: easy to clean/replace (most pleather will start to flake) c: get the drivers a bit further from the ear. d: Ensure good seal (larger area that can seal off the ear)
With these pads and a marginal EQ (when listening at low levels to immitate Fletcher Munson curves) I love these headphones straight out of my Sansa. greatest portables I heard/owned.
Reaching second place (SQ wise) behind my ortho (also with a little EQ).
|
|
crashhot
<100
can I have one of those please...?
Posts: 72
|
Post by crashhot on Mar 16, 2012 10:26:09 GMT
I lost track of this thread, seems some interesting stuff came from the original question eventually.
Did we ever decide enough of us could chip in for a pair or did we not get that far?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 14:42:30 GMT
I listened to one... and bought it. IMO it's worth the money but at the same time don't think it will be every ones friend. It sure is my friend though, most definitely when used as a portable. Recordings and player needs to be of good quality to really make it shine. Not for bass-heads. More of a tool than a HiFi phone, becomes a HiFi phone when EQ-d a bit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 16:41:26 GMT
I listened to one... and bought it. IMO it's worth the money but at the same time don't think it will be every ones friend. It sure is my friend though, most definitely when used as a portable. Recordings and player needs to be of good quality to really make it shine. Not for bass-heads. More of a tool than a HiFi phone, becomes a HiFi phone when EQ-d a bit. Ok Frans, I pretty much agree. First chance today to listen to both the T50`s and 1350`s on a direct comparison basis. Both are very good, but the 1350`s are more "musical or analogue" to my ears, better in all respects, other than the Bass dept, than my favourite portable HP`s (ltd edition Portopro`s), albeit at around 4x the cost!!. Comfort levels are fine, no problems with them on my head for an hour, but certainly not as comfortable as the P-Pro`s, but way in front of the Senn HD25`1-11s fearsome grip, which are now being sold on. Mick.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 18:42:41 GMT
I can still enjoy the KSC35/75=PortaPro when I am going somewhere and don't want to walk around with 300 Euros on my head. The DT1350 is an improvement over the T50p in several aspects. The T50p falls short of what it's worth money wise (bad VFM) but does have some good qualities. Just not those that are worth the same amount of money as the DT1350's
DT1350 is 'better' than the PortaPro but not 4x better. It betters all portable HP's I heard and or owned to my ears. Still, if you can appreciate the improvements and don't mind paying the price, IMO the DT1350 is well worth it.
The comfort improves with the HD25 pads, so do the slightly 'honky/forward' mids. With those pads on there I bend the 'rods' outwards as far as it will go without loosing that extended bass. The clamping force can be reduced to quite comfortable levels in that case because the HD25 pads can create a good seal with less clamping force due to their compliance and thickness. Depends greatly on the shape of the ears though.
being a fan of 'HiFi' sound I EQ them a bit to suit my taste and listening level. The great thing is it only get's better when you do and holds the good qualities it has. This last bit is not always the case with a lot of headphones.
Perhaps one could say (in terms of SQ improvement and price) The DT1350 and PortaPro relates to the better Ortho's and the likes of HD600/HD650/K701 e.t.c. All good headphones but whether one feels the improvement in SQ is worth the price increase is a personal and/or financial decision.
|
|
|
Post by dalethorn on Mar 16, 2012 19:46:53 GMT
I hope someone tries a Philips L1 soon, for the portability thing. Or, - oopsie! Forgot! The L1 needs bass reduction just to have no more than double the bass of the 1350, but with that enabled, very yummy. Downside: Gets rather warm in warm weather, and being in the Southland, I'm worried about sweat in the earcups. That's probably not going to be an issue with the 1350.
|
|
funk1969
250+
Some things are so easily overlooked...
Posts: 481
|
Post by funk1969 on Mar 20, 2012 12:14:54 GMT
I don't miss the fiddly DT1350 but I did miss my K181 DJ, guess which one is back again. The DT1350 is seriously impressive but I prefer my AKG in the end...
|
|
|
Post by dalethorn on Mar 20, 2012 13:59:05 GMT
My DT-1350 is sitting in its box, and won't come out unless for some reason I need a smaller walkabout headphone than the Philips L1. I'm still looking for a more ideal portable - something that sounds as good as the Philips, but also is small and folds up. Last night I got a Bose (gasp!) OE2i from the Apple store, which isn't bad with some EQ. I'll see how that goes - if it can equal the Vmoda M80. It does seem to have less midrange coloration than the M80, but time will tell.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 20:34:25 GMT
Picked up my DT1350`s today, fitted the HD25 velour pads over the originals, opened out the headband a little by careful bending as recommended by Frans, and will now leave them to burn-in a little over night. First impressions are..... that these little HP`s connected to my Ziggy Amp fed from my iPod classic, are just awesome on Shpongle type electronica music. . Mick.
|
|
funk1969
250+
Some things are so easily overlooked...
Posts: 481
|
Post by funk1969 on Apr 5, 2012 12:36:05 GMT
Yup, Beyerdynamic made an impressive headphone...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2012 16:13:56 GMT
The 1350 arrived today - many, many thanks to Dale for this.
My first impressions are good and it's not exactly what I expected if I'm honest.
First, there's no Beyerdynamic sticker to come off, Frans. It's painted in white on the outside of each capsule, not stuck. I'll check back in these posts about it, but I remember reading about a sticker coming off. No sign of it here.
It's smaller than I thought. More like a PX200 cup but deeper. The cups aren't close together when off the head. They're quite wide spaced so they don't push down that hard on the ears. Here's the funny thing about the fit; I normally find headphones like this annoying and painful. Now I can see why - it's the size of the cup and so where it presses on your ears. Slightly bigger than the Beyers (Like HD25 size) is just big enough to start hurting my ears. The cups on these are quite small and so they press on a different part of my ear and don't hurt. I can keep them on for longer.
Less tight and smaller.
They are better built than I imagined actually. The cable is thin but does the job but the headphone itself does have a weighty feel about it.
The sound is also different from what I imagined. I need to wear them quite 'low slung' and they seal surprisingly well. They have very strong mids on first impression. Snare drums have a good 'pitch' in their sound and the headphone is a fast reacting one.
They're not as 'toppy' as I thought but cymbals do have a nice fizz in them that decays smoothly.
The bass is curious. It's there, but not very emphasised and then all of a sudden you get a deep whack down there which isn't as powerful as the D2000 or K550 but it does have bass. It sounds bigger than it is. Vocals are really clear so there is really good presence and what is surprising for such a small headphone is the sense of space that you feel with them.
There is a clarity that makes you aware that some other headphones have an emphasis in the mid bass that these don't show at all. They seem very neutral in the bass although I am used to more quantity.
Impressions so far are very good. They are a quality headphone for sure. Nothing strikes me as over-emphasised and so nothing in particular stands out.
They go deep down in the bass but not with the same feeling of power that you get from a lot of other headphones. Bass lines are very easily to track and follow though so it's more a 'clarity' thing than quantity.
On first go - I like the sound they make although I think I'm aware that they are a small headphone and they don't have the depth of my bigger ones. Like listening to a small monitor speaker rather than a big 'un. The sound is contained and controlled and you are aware of space in the recording. I'd say it's quite a polite sounding headphone too.
What is a surprise is I can keep them on with no pain!!
|
|
|
Post by dalethorn on Jun 19, 2012 16:39:39 GMT
As to the sticker, I think what you have if you look close are the "caps" on the outside of each earcup, and those caps are stuck to the earcups themselves and can come off. My suspicion is they designed that originally as a way of personalizing the headphone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2012 17:10:33 GMT
Ah - you mean the whole of the back of the cups? It's a round plate with Beyerdynamic painted onto it? Frans gave me the impression that there was a sticker, stuck to the back plate. Maybe it was changed since this is a later one?
They do actually feel quite 'industrial' with a very cheap cable that doesn't detatch!!
The sound isn't what I expected exactly and nothing in particular stands out which is quite funny in a way. I felt the same about the K601. Nothing in particular was offensive. The bass seems slightly detached, I think. It goes when there is bass on the recording but seems totally gone when there's none there. No attractive 'blooming'!! I don't get the feeling that the bass is ramped at all as you often get in home headphones but it goes deeper than many.
No stinging treble (as I imagined). Not particularly bass light although I am used to more in quantity but there is deep down bass. Strong in the mids. In fact very strong for a closed headphone so they don't exactly sound closed. Quite good isolation on my ears with the standard pads.
The question is whether they are worth the money that the retail for. That's difficult to answer. They don't boost stuff that isn't there so they feel 'accurate' as far as a mini headphone goes and are pretty natural. Because they are quite natural, then you feel that the sound is pretty ordinary and then suddenly, off goes that deep bass to remind you that this is a headphone.
I guess a good headphone shouldn't be boosted in any area in order to make it seem better than others so it's a good 'un all right.
I think it is probably worth the price but it probably depends on what you expect from your basic £200 (ish) It's solidly built. Better again, than I thought.
My K550 sounds bigger. The D2000 even bigger but this is more 'even' I guess. Longer term listening will tell, but it is actually better than I thought it would be. If I'm honest, I was expecting a more V6 sound with better defined bass but it's more refined all through. Much more even handed and way more extended so I'm not sure if it's a good 'monitor' headphone or whether it's more intended as a home music headphone.
My feeling is the latter but it has a rather nice 'accuracy' of sound that may be good in some applications and not others. It would respond well to eq so it would be a simple thing to boost the frequencies that you're monitoring for problems and I suspect the 1350 would react well to tweaking.
So different to to my other closed headphones and yet, still very good.
Another new feel for me - the central image (vocals) is really locked in to the centre. It sounds as though each capsule is so well matched that the tiny nuances of vocals kind of fly out at you. In fact, come to think of it, left/right positioning is extremely precise and the articulation of each instrument is etched out really well.
A subtlety that normally takes a while to appreciate on a new headphone but it just came out like a hologram and once you kind of lock onto that in a headphone, the memory stays with you so you can immediately return to it next time you use them.
That probably sounds a bit daft, but I do tend to find a kind of 'focus' for headphones and it can be different for various types of headphone and dependent very much on volume listened at. I normally 'learn' an 'ideal' volume for the headphone to snap in to focus but these seem to snap a bit easier.
Sign of a good headphone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2012 18:04:33 GMT
On the left you can see the backside of the 'lid' that is simply stuck on with double sided foam tape. I suspect (Like Dale) that it has to do with the 'Manufaktur' thing in the future, or they didn't like the face underneath and made an extra cap for it.. Anyway... Ian check your mail for some EQ instructions and hear how it 'transforms'. In stock form without EQ it's just a 'tool' that is very flat with an emphasis on lower mids that is slightly un-natural The HD25 pads simply on top of the original pads gave me much more comfort and a better seal but the clamping force increased.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2012 18:34:47 GMT
I see it now. A false back!! I thought it was a sticker on the back itself. OK, I get it now!!
Yes, it is very 'flat' sounding and very analytical. I compared it with the Sony and I hate to say it, but there are some similarities with the Sony sounding more edgy and not so refined.
I can see how the HD25 pads can go over the original pads - I'll give it a whirl. I'll get accustomed to what it's doing as sold for the time being though. It's not bad at all.
|
|