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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 4, 2011 11:24:18 GMT
I see no reason at all why axial ferrite beads shouldn't be fitted at the in / outputs.... maybe Frans will tell me a reason though  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 11:26:11 GMT
Ian, I will incorporate some axial ferrite inductors into your Sunrise and also ground the pot... should minimise the noise. Mike. Thanks Mike. I live in an 'electrical' environment I guess. (I have to) The ferrites on both sides of the supply didn't change anything by shifting them, but now I've found the source, I'll just make sure it's off. Touching the outside of the headphone plug helps so earthing wouldn't hurt in all models because the chances of someone getting it are quite high. (Unless they're not as tuned in to noise as me) Also, people reading this, don't be put off. I am hyper-critical by nature because of my job and it is a common 'tubey' thing. I could live with just this amp I think. It's grown and grown on me over the past day. These guys are geniuses. To make an amp like this, tuned to what people want to hear. It doesn't get much better. Thanks Frans. I didn't realise that it would be better to isolate where the offending item is. I'll do that. First time I've got it here. Ian |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 11:28:45 GMT
I did that, Mike. No difference. It's touching the plug that gets to it so it's linked with earthing as well I think.
Clean as a whistle now with stuff turned off.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 11:50:41 GMT
It can't hurt to put them in.
The reason why they are used (mostly in PC related stuff or switch mode power supply stuff) is to be able to comply to emission rules in the cheapest possible way.
They have to be mounted as close as possible to the part that emits common mode signals.
These are signals that are common, meaning equal in amplitude and phase on all the wires, so L, N and GND for instance, or + and - output voltage) and are difficult (expensive) to filter, if not impossible.
To still be able to comply to emission rules HF energy (well above 1MHz, ie 1,000,000 Hz) ferrites are used.
These form a 'barrier' for these frequencies in the cable that carries them and thus the energy (very low) of these HF signals is dissipated in those ferrites.
Usually a few windings are far more effective, but in some cases (and for aesthetic reasons) only 1, larger length, ferrite is used to just comply.
the optimal amount of windings depends on the ferrites core material, needed frequency range that needs to be adressed e.t.c.
More is not always better in this case.
So in general the source of the nasties (in Ians case the synth's power supply most likely) needs to be filtered so not only the sunrise but also other equipment does not receive those unwanted signals.
Just a ferrite at the synths powercord probably won't do.
You will probably need a mains filter.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 4, 2011 11:54:32 GMT
What kind of synth is it Ian..... is it like a Hammond Organ?  Lovely things.... |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 4, 2011 11:58:44 GMT
By the way..... I've heard of "music on the move" but this is taking it a bit far!  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 12:13:40 GMT
By the way..... I've heard of "music on the move" but this is taking it a bit far! ;D ;D ;D That's about it in the weather we've been having. Bloody baking. Thank goodness, it's chucking with rain today. The offending article is a Korg Kronos 88 that I'm trying. All synths are buggers for causing hums, whistles and hisses!! There is something rather nice about a plain piano sound though. That organ looks like the one that guy in Monty Python used!! Ian |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 4, 2011 12:44:30 GMT
Have you seen this Ian?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 14:07:04 GMT
It's so true what he was saying about a simple sound being an inspiration for new songs and ideas!
Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 4, 2011 14:13:28 GMT
It's so true what he was saying about a simple sound being an inspiration for new songs and ideas! Ian I watched all 20 minutes of it.... great machine but you also need to know how to play it  not one of those "one finger" type people (like me).... do you any instrumentals Ian? I just LOVE that type of thing  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 14:24:36 GMT
Yes. I often doodle around and improvise. Funnily enough, I enjoy playing piano. With synths, the sound can become the drive just through pure 'sound' whereas with piano, melody and structure become more important.
He was using presets that are in the machine, (devised by the tech guys) that formed the basis of his 'backings' while he improvised on the right hand side of the keyboard over the top of it.
Nice for doodling - one of those pieces he improvised was based on just one chord and the pentatonic scale. (Chinese 5 note scale - like just the black keys of the piano) Then he started to wander away from the key so it was almost in two keys at once which created the tension before he went back to the pentatonic. A lot of pop guys do that!
Ian
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Post by Garage1217 on Aug 4, 2011 15:09:55 GMT
Glad the issue seems to be found. I use a sunrise here at my office which has all sorts of crazy electrical noise and my unit is dead silent, sitting on a pc, next to a monitor, under a 24" florescent light, next to 2 power supplies with countless cellular devices all around me. But yeah, Something noisy on the ac such as another power supply would definitely cause issues and issues like that can make it really hard to enjoy the music.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 15:42:25 GMT
Hi Jeremy. It didn't interfere with music since if you listened at that setting, you'd deafen yourself!!! I'm a bit anal about buzzes, clicks, hisses etc., so it's nothing huge. I wonder whether the vol pot needs to be earthed though? It does react to touch at 2 o clock. There's bound to be someone else in a 'noisy' environment. In fact, most of my listening is down at the low end 8 - 9 o' clock!! For some reason, there is a 'focus' at 2 o clock when noise is at its loudest. Let go and it recedes so no problem listening to music unless you want to grip the volume control in desperation or something.  I seem to remember that you use your source as the volume control and set the gain on the Sunrise at one point? ie: you don't twiddle the volume control so it becomes a 'power' amp in effect? Try around 2 o'clock (Move up and down between 12 and 3 with no music) and keep hold of the pot - just to see if you get the same effect. If you do, then it may just need an earthed pot. If not, then it's something to do with my mains supply. I'll look for some kind of mains filter perhaps. It's the first time I've noticed this happening here. I had similar problems in the last place I was in with Bravos and the like. (So I search for things like that!!) Maybe I'll put a biscuit tin over it as well!! I tried the K701 with it today. IMO, the K701 isn't a great match. It could be that the DT990 has me spoilt for bass but I just can't get on with the K701 sound with anything. The best for me so far is the Panda with the AKG. The low depths seem to be missing when the K701 is attached to the Sunrise. In fact, I think that there is some kind of 'synergy' with the DT990. (and probably the Senn since you use them Jeremy) The depth of the bass is absolutely awesome but not so on the AKG. If I didn't use them as a kind of 'reference' I'd give the damned things away. I get very frustrated by the K701. 601 is better. Maybe a higher powered valve amp would serve the K701 better, so that the output impedance could be on 120 ohms. The more I listen to amps, the more I feel that it's about amp and headphone - not just amp. I don't suppose you have a DT990 Jeremy. The sound from the amp is absolutely amazing. If someone asked me to recommend a headphone, I would say Beyer DT990 on the condition that it was paired with the Sunrise. I'm sure that it would be a winning combo. I've been listening since yesterday and it feels really good to me. Ian |
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Post by Garage1217 on Aug 4, 2011 15:58:16 GMT
Right on Ian, I am listening to mine actually right now, I do not get anything at 2 at all, I mean zero on my hd650's and I have pretty good ears. When you hear this noise, is the source connected or powered on? Does it better or worse with the source powered on or off? Is it only one source component or all?
To note, the volume pot is grounded to the plane which has me leaning towards noise from the mains, especially if you can touch a grounded part of the amp and it disappears.
I do not have a pair of the 990's but have been meaning to take a listen for some time! Hopefully at the next meet here in Arizona.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 16:07:17 GMT
OK Jeremy, I must have poor mains or power supply. It's gone when the synths are off until I touch the pot when it's set at 2 o clock. However, if I touch something else with my other hand, it goes. (ie; the outer part of the headphone plug) Let go of eveything and it goes away. Source connected (but not playing) it 'focuses' at 2 o clock. Disconnect everything except headphones and there is a buzz all of the time, which increases with the gain. Got to be mains supply. I need an electrical scrubbing brush!! Ian |
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Post by Garage1217 on Aug 4, 2011 16:58:49 GMT
Hey Ian, also to your questions... Yes I primarily set the volume around 10-11 on my sunrise and use my sources for volume control. Just the way I use my equipment. Coming from a previous life in high end car audio / competing is SQ comps, I am in the mindset of higher source output / voltages with very low gain or volume on the amplifiers themselves to kill noise and increase dynamics among other things. I personally cringe when I see people barely turning their sources volume on and then cranking the amps gain or volume.
On the synergy, I could not agree more. I know it sucks for the wallets of people that love this hobby but once you find the right equipment, it all comes together! From the recording, to source, to amp, to the right valve, to cans... For me at the moment, it is my e-mu 0204 source > Sunrise with 6n23p > 650's and I am grinning ear to ear. Take any one part out of the chain and it breaks the synergy. For example, right now my 0204 is at home so I am listening through my zune which I once thought was the cats meow sq wise and it is compared to my other players... but compared to my 0204... it sounds miserable and is frustrating me to no end. So I tried to switch over to my laptops built in sound and good lord I had to shut it off lol
Good suggestion for the manual and the DC jack polarity. I will add it in for this revision!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2011 23:19:08 GMT
Hi Ian, You could do worse than invest a few quid (prices vary wildly, between £42 to near £200, buy carefully) in a Belkin PF 30 or the PF 40, similar product but bigger with more outlets. I've got a 30 after a quick fan club started on AoS when the PF 30 was being offloaded at £20 or a little above - it does what it says on the box, namely filters out noise, without 'sitting on' the music. I can lend you a Belkin Noise Sniffer to play with if you like listening to various intensities of 'white noise' crackling . Cheers, Dave. |
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Post by Z on Aug 17, 2011 2:55:38 GMT
so this thing is $235 built and is good with both low and high ohm phones?
(i just want to make sure i'm reading his site right. i don't fully trust my understanding of his buying options.)
the G1217 is the sunrise amp?
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Post by Garage1217 on Aug 17, 2011 3:26:59 GMT
G1217 is my company. Project Sunrise is the amplifier  And you are correct, For a fully built amp with power supply and tube, ready to run it is $234.99 + Shipping. |
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Post by Z on Aug 17, 2011 15:36:00 GMT
i've noticed it isn't shielded. will my pc bugger up the sound?
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Post by Z on Aug 17, 2011 18:47:17 GMT
Ian, I'll send you one of these with your amp:  Will help to shield the valve from RFI Mike. where'd you get that tube condom thing? |
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Post by Z on Aug 17, 2011 18:50:59 GMT
and also, does anyone know of any good solid cases for this thing? i worry about the jacks and pot getting screwed up by my clumsiness and the situations created by clutter.
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Post by Z on Aug 17, 2011 19:00:32 GMT
and what are the best options for 27 ohm to 100 ohm cans?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 17, 2011 19:15:02 GMT
Ian, I'll send you one of these with your amp: Will help to shield the valve from RFI Mike. Erm... it is known as a "Valve shield" and I bought a box of 100 of them a long time ago from a guy in deepest Russia.... they actually come with a bayonet locking base (which you fit the valves into) and you lock the shield onto the base.... the shield is also grounded and inside the shield (at the top) there is a spring which firmly clamps the valve.... Similar to this except you are looking for a 9 pin shield. |
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Post by Z on Aug 17, 2011 19:23:30 GMT
cost?
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not one of those "one finger" type people (like me).... do you any instrumentals Ian? I just LOVE that type of thing 
And you are correct, For a fully built amp with power supply and tube, ready to run it is $234.99 + Shipping.