New Hybrid Class A / Tube amp kit coming soon!

[Garage1217]

Hey guys, With the blessing of Mike, I wanted to post up a DIY kit that Frans and I have been working on. I really liked the idea of an affordable hybrid tube amp like the Bravo, Muse and indeed varieties but felt they could all be a LOT better than they are and really perform! So in short (the only short part of this post), I got with Frans and after beating up designs, modifications and new additions day and night (literally day and night as I am in the US) We have come up with Project Sunrise. And to all due Credit, Frans put one heck of a lot into this design! It could not have been done in without him so a big thanks to Frans!

Since I cannot post detailed photos of the production kit yet (pre-production, prototypes are shipping out to various people late next week) I thought I would give some info and open up a q/a session about what the amp has to offer...

Board Overview
- 2 layer, black masked circuit board with gold wash / full lower and upper ground planes! So much was added in the design, the board had to grow to 4" x 5"
- Both 6V and 12V selectable heater voltage to easily roll 12au7 / 6922 or similar tubes via a jumper
- Dedicated heater power supply circuit
- Turn on / off protection so you can safely leave your cans plugged in while turning on and off the amp!
- All amplifier components are US sourced from reputable retailers! NO FAKE / COUNTERFEIT ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS PERIOD! All top quality parts
- User configurable LED color
- Multiple jumper options to help dial in the amp the way you want it. More info below on the jumper options.

Input capacitor options
- Input cap bypass via jumpers as the best sounding cap is no cap. Running no cap can cause a scratchy sound from DC when adjusting the volume, but once volume / gain is set, there is no need to adjust it really which is why bypass jumpers are provided.

- For tuners, you can run 2 / 2.5 / 3.5 or 5mm lead spaced input capacitors up to 8mm diameter / multi drilled pcb. Reference input caps that will ship are Nichicon Muse ES

Output capacitor options
- PCB drilled for 5 / 7.5 and 10mm leaded caps. Reference output caps are Nichicon KZ series / FG will be available later per request Up to 18mm diameter caps accepted!

Power supply capacitors
- PCB drilled for 5 / 7.5 and 10mm leaded caps up to 18mm diameter. Reference power supply caps are Nichicon FG / KZ available upon request

Resistors
- All signal resistors are Vishay 1%
- Variable 25 turn 1/2w bourns trimmers for precision bias adjustment - Output resistor values are selectable via jumpers between 10ohm and 68ohm. You can of course change the values to whatever you like if you feel like doing something different than the reference design

Other features...
- Onboard rugged power switch with easy access / alternate vias to mount a remote chassis on-off switch
- Onboard 2mm barrel plug jack with easy access alternate vias to solder in 24V input wires from a chassis plug
- Onboard RCA input jacks with easy access alternate vias to solder chassis mount RCA leads
- Neutrik 1/4 inch / 6.3mm phono output
- Bourns pro audio volume pot with nice black / silver machined aluminum knob. Great feel IMO over the ALPS miniature version.

Chassis
- Partially naked / open air design, laser cut acrylic chassis will be available which is similar to the common open air designs found on the overseas kits, however the ones I will offer have cutouts for input and output caps as well as provisions to help vent the heatsinks.

Power Supply
The power supplies I have to offer are standard 2A / 24V switch mode power supplies, almost identical to the ones that ship with the Indeed series amps. They are a cheap alternative to building a DIY supply and work great. The input jack on the kit takes a 2.1mm center pin barrel connector so if you already have a bravo or similar with 2.1mm barrel connector, then you can re-use your own supply!

Kit options
You can buy a kit in various trim levels as well as have us build your amp, ready to run out of the box! All amps built by us carry a 2 year warranty on the amp itself / 1 year on the power supply and 60 day on the tube.

All kits will come with a detailed instruction manual with photos so that even a novice solder slinger can get up and running in no time!

Kits are as follows...
store.garage1217.com/project-sunrise-hybrid-class-a--tube-headphone-amplifier.html

Power supplies, tubes and chassis options are sold separate. Check out my website for more details! store.garage1217.com/diyhisuki.html

Feel free to ask any questions you would like! Pre-orders are being accepted now and are welcomed! The ship date of production units will be June 30th 2011. On G1217 built serialized units, you can reserve the serial number you want! 2-50 are available right now. Serial numbers will be laser etched onto the top part of the chassis.

Who the heck are you?
My name is Jeremy Helms. My small company G1217 is based in Arizona under the scalding desert sun. I have been supporting the DIY automotive LED industry for many, many years so no, we are not a new startup! I have a passion for hifi and more specifically headphones and want to extend my business into the DIY parts and kit world as I have a passion for it. I pride myself in fast shipping, quality parts and fast email responses "I do my best to respond fast for my overseas customers since we are on different schedules" If you have any questions at all, hit me up anytime!

[XTRProf]

Songs interesting as it's discrete. So based on the G2 hybrid or fully modified or original design? How much power? Duo mono design? Ya, how much for the PCBs alone? Any BOM and circuit diagrams for the PCBs to help us build it? Thanks.

[markdam]

will there be bias test points integral?

[Deleted]

It is a combination (the best features) of the 12AU7 and G2 with all the mods already incorporated and bigger heatsinks (so lower temperatures).
Power (consumed and output) is the same as a modded G2 and it is a 'normal' stereo design as one tube amplifies both channels (not dual mono) similar to the G2 but bigger sized board, higher quality components and more room to fit audiophile parts to suit your needs.
Should you want dual mono... order 2 boards..
BOM and schematics are available.
Bias testpoints are integrated on the PCB.

[jonclancy]

Looks like a nice kit - well done guys!

[Deleted]

Hi Jeremy and Frans,
Forgive me if I've missed something guys. I am an electrical numptie but have a good friend who would build this kit for me for 'mates rates'. Can you give me some idea of the prices involved. As Frans will confirm, I am a big fan of his handiwork and I would buy (if I can afford it ) on that fact alone.
TIA,
Dave.

[Deleted]

prices can be found on Jeremy's website:
store.garage1217.com/diyhisuki.html
This is a tube - hybrid design somewhat similar to the modded Indeed G2 with added features.

I supplied the schematic and a few idea's and assisted by commenting on the PCB design in the development stage.
It is Jeremy's idea/product including some of his ideas as well and and it's Jeremy's PCB design.
I have only been involved from the sidelines so to speak.

I liked Jeremy's idea for making a DIY version with high quality parts and already optimised so modding it won't be needed.
a standard G2 plus needed parts to make it perform better will not be much cheaper as a whole I reckon.

[jonclancy]

Having compared the original eBay offering, and Jeremy's full kit and chassis, there appears to be only around £20, your labour and shipping costs between them - and, of course, the mods are all build in!

So, looks like decent value to me - especially as it is a commercial product, so to speak.

[mrarroyo]

Any chance of seeing a picture of the finalized product? Thanks.

[Deleted]

It is still in 'Beta' phase.
Jeremy will receive his protoboards any day now but these are not black with goldwash yet.

[PinkFloyd]

This is just what the Doctor ordered! A good priced DIY valve amp (or "tubes" as you Yanks call them ).... we have the Panda and the SCHA which are both pretty "involved" kits and BOTH are solid state so this is will be ideal for those wishing to dip their toes into the world of valve amps.

I'll build one up myself, and upload lots of pics to the (inevitable) "build" thread I am particularly interested in this as I have a cornucopia of 6922 / 6N23P / 6N23P-EB / E88CC / 6DJ8 and Chinese 6N11J valves (a few thousand in total ) so it will be good fun testing an assortment in the SunRise amp

Looks like a well laid out board and seems pretty straightforward to put together... I can't wait to get my hands on one to see how it sounds.... Fran's has been involved in the design so I'm confident it won't be a lemon in the SQ dept.

I wish you all the best with your venture Jeremy.

Mike.

[Deleted]

After having a good shoofty this looks very good value, especially compared to the G2 plus mods.

Just one question; with all the recent talk of getting K701/2s to sound good, shouldn't there be a 120ohm output resistance selectable as well?

[Deleted]

May 30, 2011 23:34:35 GMT @cjarchez said:

After having a good shoofty this looks very good value, especially compared to the G2 plus mods.

Just one question; with all the recent talk of getting K701/2s to sound good, shouldn't there be a 120ohm output resistance selectable as well?

Hi Chris
You really need higher voltage swing capabilities to get the most out of using the 120 ohms output resistance.
Earlier generation valve amplifiers had that capability due to the much higher supply rail voltages used back then. (>+200V typically.)
Frans would certainly be able to design a valve or valve/hybrid amplifier using considerably higher supply rails, that had fabulous performance, and would most likely put the MF designs to shame, ;)but it would not come cheaply, and may even be lethal in the hands of inexperienced constructors.
Alex

[XTRProf]

May 30, 2011 8:14:06 GMT @solderdude said:

Power (consumed and output) is the same as a modded G2 and it is a 'normal' stereo design as one tube amplifies both channels (not dual mono) similar to the G2 but bigger sized board, higher quality components and more room to fit audiophile parts to suit your needs.

Yeah, I like the ability to fit bigger audiophile parts. Btw, as I didn't follow the G2 thread, what is the power for this amp for the usual suspect HP impedances.

May 30, 2011 8:14:06 GMT @solderdude said:

Should you want dual mono... order 2 boards..

Heh, heh ................., you know where I will be coming from. Great!



Btw, I will wait until pictures of the build are out ..................

[Deleted]

Just one question�

shouldn't there be a 120ohm output resistance selectable as well

It was discussed / considered but as Alex already correctly replied you would need a higher voltage.
Above 36V the heater voltage supply would have to be swapped for other parts AND it is a lot harder to find 48V switch mode or linear power supplies that would be needed in this case, the power consumption would rise 2 fold, meaning bigger heatsinks e.t.c.
Now power consumption is about 15W this would have to become about 30W
Should you like to select different output resistances as well (this one has 68 and 10 to choose from) the consumed power would become 60W !!!

So it was decided not to go this route.

[jeffc]

Hi Jeremy,

Well done for a terrific "ultimate no compromises DIY project" for what is a terrific little amp design when tricked up , me having a modded Bravo 12AU7 and quite a large stash of various NOS tubes. Too late now but one thing if a Rev 2 board should ever be considered is mounting points for a 1/8" socket either as well as or as an alternative to the 1/4" socket. Not a big fan of adapters if they can be avoided.

cheers.. jeffc

[Deleted]

Alex and Frans,

That makes perfect sense

Thanks.

[Garage1217]

Thanks for the responses! Jeffc, It was definitely considered and will be considered in the future depending on demand. I decided to just go 6.3 as most of our higher end cans run on 6.3 and I have a decent adapter in mind that I use / like that will be available later on.

[PinkFloyd]

I like the employment of Bourns trimpots and potentiometer.... Bourns pots are very good quality indeed Many years ago I worked for a company who populated boards etc. for some very well known audio makes... the creme de la creme boards all had Bourns fitted whilst the crappy boards just had no name, cheap, generic pots fitted onto them.... the absolute WORST were the Bang and Olufsen boards, populated with CRAP second only to ARCAM... they were populated and tested and then shipped out.

The "decent" gear was soak tested for 48 hours and if there were any failures they would be repaired and then soak tested again for another 48 hours..... back then the "Apricot" computer boards seemed to have the absolute best parts fitted and the QC on their boards was 101%....

I remember this stupid sign on the soak room door.... "Zero tolerance zone".... it was a friggin' OVEN in there... anything that survived 48 hours of that HAD to be good!

I doubt this kind of thing goes on these days.... we even had a section which "repaired" remote controls... a few people sitting there all day fault finding and repairing bloody remote controls... these days they just throw them into the nearest bin

Anyways.... I'm waffling now.... just wanted to say that your parts choice seems very good Jeremy. The Nichicon are nice caps (I use a lot of the ES Non Polars in my kits) and perfect as coupling caps in a "tube" amp as their house sound is quite warm which enhances the "tube sound" that quite a few people like... perfect in this application I reckon

Of course, Frans will tell you that all caps sound the same but he's from the Netherlands you know..... they think the world is flat over there They still speak of the Great Dutch explorer "Henry van gruiter" who, legend has it, decided to cycle to the "edge" of the world in search of new lands.... Old Henry was pedalling like the clappers down a hill and the next thing, he fell off the edge of the earth never to be seen again.

I know the Earth is round, you know the earth is round but the Dutch still believe we are sitting on a revolving pancake.... The great Dutch darts player "Raymond van Barneveld" recently said in an interview "my inspiration for darts was the flatness of the board, it is much like the World... it is pancake shaped and if you don't hit it with your dart you don't score.... this is like Henry Van Gruiter cycling off the edge... he did not score when flew off the edge at 70KPH screaming "fekk me, the world is flat!"... darts is much like looking at the world and we do our best to avoid the edge... there are no winners when you meet the edge

The Dutch also believe that all cheese taste the same, everybody looks the same, we all evolved from a giant pancake and the sun is a giant pancake grill..... they say "if the sun fails to shine the pancake we live on will go floppy and we will all fall off the earth and see Henry, mangled with his bike, in the great abyss"......

Anyhoo....... I am a great believer in the "round" earth... as opposed to the "flat" earth and also believe that capacitors have their own unique house sound.... I also believe that Rainbow foil, alcohol, drugs, lighting, smells, places, people etc. can help to condition the "mind" to make music sound better.... it's not the equipment that needs tweaking, it's yourself that needs to be conditioned into a zone / state of mind.... you need to be conditioned to "receive".... if you are not in the zone, everything will sound like shite.

A bit of a ramble there but I feel better for it..... carry on as you were

[Deleted]

They still speak of the Great Dutch explorer "Henry van gruiter" who, legend has it, decided to cycle to the "edge" of the world in search of new lands.... Old Henry was pedalling like the clappers down a hill and the next thing, he fell off the edge of the earth never to be seen again.

Mike
Just be careful if you supercharge the Pedelec and head due north ! ;D

[Deleted]

My gawd that made a funny read!!! The Flat Earth Society - Thomas Dolby. Maybe Thomas is a Dutchman?

Ian

[XTRProf]

May 31, 2011 20:14:16 GMT PinkFloyd said:

I remember this stupid sign on the soak room door.... "Zero tolerance zone".... it was a friggin' OVEN in there... anything that survived 48 hours of that HAD to be good!

I doubt this kind of thing goes on these days.... we even had a section which "repaired" remote controls... a few people sitting there all day fault finding and repairing bloody remote controls... these days they just throw them into the nearest bin

Ha, ha, that reminded me when I was in Seagate. You enter that room and many will suffocate. It's that hot. We think the dessert is hot? Wait till we enter that room .................... Btw, many years ago, Seagate policy was not even 48 hrs BI but 96 hrs (4 days). Yeah, anything that can survive in that heat and for 4 days 24hrs will ultimately be the best of the lot. This haven't even considered the various test std for various customers. IBM and HP were the toughest test stds to pass after that BI ordeal for the HDs.

Nowadays, I also doubt that will be done due to the drastic cost cutting measures. Any failure just 1 for 1 exchanged from those repaired!

[Garage1217]

Is this normal around here? hahaha!

On the bourns pots, agreed. I like them a lot better than some of the alternatives that seem to be popular in this size / format I have several here and the bourns stand out for sure!

[XTRProf]

Yeah, do post build pictures when the boards arrived. Thanks.

[Deleted]

Did Mike have a few drinks or is this normal around here? hahaha!

Both ?
Check the disclaimer from Frans, and you will gain some further insight.



P.S.
Is anybody else having trouble posting replies ?