Headphone amp questions from a first timer :S

[Deleted]

Yup, the Zigis is the same as the one i use, he is a decent guy knows his stuff, took around 10 days for mine to arrive.

Mick.

[pjc68]

These are good, i have the 3.5mm to 2phono option but you can get
the 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable.
0.5m - £21.60 or 1m - £27.
www.russandrews.com/product.asp?src=google&lookup=1®ion=UK¤cy=GBP&pf_id=2350&customer_id=PAA1474014811626XTPESDNTDJWTZHLD
No snake oil
paddy

[PinkFloyd]

Jan 14, 2011 17:45:23 GMT pjc68 said:

These are good, i have the 3.5mm to 2phono option but you can get
the 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable.
0.5m - £21.60 or 1m - £27.
www.russandrews.com/product.asp?src=google&lookup=1®ion=UK¤cy=GBP&pf_id=2350&customer_id=PAA1474014811626XTPESDNTDJWTZHLD
No snake oil
paddy

Paddy, it's not the cable I don't like it's the "vendor"... that man will sell anything if he can make money and most of the stuff he sells is over priced snake oil IMHO.

[freddypipsqueek]

I have 3 separate kimber cables and bought second hand on ebay they are good value (generally quarter to third retail). Pay the UK new price from Mr Andrews however !!! - his prices are almost £ = $. They can't cost that much to import & ship already marked up cables.

[Deleted]

I bought a cable for a few quid and it really doesn't sound any different to one that I paid £40 for.

Even these things sound fine;

www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_7_24?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=jack+to+jack+cable+3.5mm&sprefix=jack+to+jack+cable+3.5mm

for £20 you could buy 5 cables.

I've never felt happy paying big money for wire. The worst thing I ever did was buy a cable for my Senn HD650. I won't say which one or how much; it's embarrassing - but I can't tell it from the stock cable. (I have two 650's and so could swap instantly on an amp with 4 outputs. I couldn't detect it.

However, I wouldn't want to start a barney but just trying to say to the guy who's starting with amps; consider saving the dosh, Get a good amp, but don't get ripped off for a piece of wire.

[Deleted]

Jan 14, 2011 21:57:11 GMT @iancraig10 said:

I bought a cable for a few quid and it really doesn't sound any different to one that I paid £40 for.

Even these things sound fine;

www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_7_24?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=jack+to+jack+cable+3.5mm&sprefix=jack+to+jack+cable+3.5mm

for £20 you could buy 5 cables.

I've never felt happy paying big money for wire. The worst thing I ever did was buy a cable for my Senn HD650. I won't say which one or how much; it's embarrassing - but I can't tell it from the stock cable. (I have two 650's and so could swap instantly on an amp with 4 outputs. I couldn't detect it.

However, I wouldn't want to start a barney but just trying to say to the guy who's starting with amps; consider saving the dosh, Get a good amp, but don't get ripped off for a piece of wire.

Geez Ian, do you mean to say you can't hear any difference between those cables when using the Panda ?

[Deleted]

Honest guv,

String with a hint of copper trace works really well. Especially when damp!

I think that is an area that's full of Bull's Locks. When you pay nearly £200 for a cable and can't hear it .........

It leaves you slightly miffed and I wouldn't want to see a new guy do the same.

At least, the difference in sound was most definitely not £200.

Absolute Ferrr kine rip orff.

[pjc68]

Thats my only gripe with russ (the prices), i just bought cables, cd cleaner and a few other mains accessories and bits otherwise it,s import from the usa.
But i have never better than kimber and iv,e had some of these cables for 10 years.
paddy

[freddypipsqueek]

I’m in two minds about this. I do believe some cables are better and I do think they make a difference. I use an aftermarket HD600 cable (Stefan Audio Art) and I think it improved the sound no end. But its only my opinion. It could be that its just presenting the sound in a way I like. I also think many cables are overpriced. I used the mundord gold/silver stuff from hifi collective to wire my WNA and it made a big difference (http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/wire.html) . Its only £23 a metre. How come some of the kimber stuff is sooo expensive. For £35 I could make something really good. Next time I need a good cable I will do so. I do have a theory though. Cables can be changed to taylor (improve) the sound without DIY knowledge. I think many (and I include myself in this as I’m very much reading and learning) buy them because its seems to be a reasonable way of improving sound. One more point. I know (albeit from people who should know and have told me) that cables (copper, silver etc) need a run in. Its only been from reading on this site that any new stuff I have is left to burn in for a couple of hundred hours of so when before I would have given up on it as S**t.

[freddypipsqueek]

On the amp fron the following ebay item is looking very good value - 220722004187

A chiarra albeit minus the usualy PSU for £25.

[UzminiNu]

Thomann's "Cordial" cables have a very low price and are far better made than the cheapest 2£ amazon cables.

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2011 7:27:56 GMT UzminiNu said:

Thomann's "Cordial" cables have a very low price and are far better made than the cheapest 2£ amazon cables.

Yes, that looks fine.

For me, the strength of the plugs is a more important factor. Too cheap often means a poor plug/connection but wire is wire.

I DO hear differences on speaker wire though.

I did a side by side with Stefan Audio cable on the HD650 and I really couldn't detect a great deal. What surprised me about the Stefan was the plugs - not even gold and one was soldered on, off centre. The stiffness of the plug into the HD650 just got on my nerves and the wire kept hitting my shoulders if I tilted my head. Also, if you held the cable and it dropped, it put a helluva jolt on the headphone connection.

It was far too heavy so I took it off. All this for £170!! I would have liked to have had Stefan on one headphone and Cardas on the other and directly compare the two, but the money for this is plain daft. I'd rather get a £400 headphone.

This is what puts me right off:

HD650 = £200
Cable = £175

Why not get a decent headphone for £375? To me, the outlay doesn't work. I also find the same with interconnects. OK, pay for good plugs and strength of cable, but for me that's it!!

I honestly couldn't hear a difference between one of those one copper strand type roll up cables for ipods in comparison to a cable made for me from exotic materials. ;D

I feel happier advising new people to stick with good value cable that is strong and not worry about the subtleties of what one cable sounds like - especially from an Ipod or whatever. It really isn't worth it.

Spend the £175 on a better CD player or headphone. The differences will be far greater.

[victoriaguy]

Jan 15, 2011 8:03:32 GMT @iancraig10 said:

For me, the strength of the plugs is a more important factor. Too cheap often means a poor plug/connection but wire is wire.
.................

Why not get a decent headphone for £375? To me, the outlay doesn't work. I also find the same with interconnects. OK, pay for good plugs and strength of cable, but for me that's it!!

I honestly couldn't hear a difference between one of those one copper strand type roll up cables for ipods in comparison to a cable made for me from exotic materials. ;D

I feel happier advising new people to stick with good value cable that is strong and not worry about the subtleties of what one cable sounds like - especially from an Ipod or whatever. It really isn't worth it.

Spend the £175 on a better CD player or headphone. The differences will be far greater.

Yes!! My thoughts exactly - decent connectors, and reasonable weight/flex on cable, then spend the money where it counts.
In NorthAmerica, places like BlueJeansCable are where I purchase. No 'nonsense' aka mythology and reasonable prices. Or, DIY, of course.
John

[Deleted]

Amen !

I have a true but funny story about very expensive interlinks. ;D

When I worked at a HiFi store (repairman) I sometimes had to do onsite repairs or help out with deliveries.
One day a guy had bought literally thousands of guilders (1000 guilders = aprox 450 Euro) worth of interlinks and wanted it replaced by a professional.
I was the only one available so went.
Big house, big money, BIG huge expensive gear, big sound.
He turned out to be a musician and loved hifi.

He sat in his chair (directional speakers) and remained there.
Listened to music he was very famialar with and knew inside out.
So I changed the cables, let him listen... BIG improvement.
I changed the cables back so he could be sure (we had a no improvement , refund agreement) and that was sounding considerably less.
Changed back again .... a pure revelation the big improvement was there..

Now this is what I did and NEVER told the guy.

When I said I changed the cables.. I only shoved some gear back and forth pretending to swap cables but did NOTHING the old cables were still there and UNTOUCHED.
He said... big improvement everything got SO much better now.

Then I changed the cables for the expensive new ones (Monster cable, the most expensive we had in the store) and told him I had stuck the old ones back but in reality the new ones only now were installed.
The sound was worse again... he could defenitely hear the cheap cables again and wanted me to switch back to the new ones as the new ones were a true revelation... so much better.

So I shoved the gear a bit back and forth again pretending to swap cables but did nothing to the cables.
He listened again and there was the improvement again... huge.
The guy was SO glad he was able to improve his gear SO much with so little money.
Excellent upgrade..

TRUE STORY, this was not done with speaker cable as he already had 'upmarket' cables when his speakers were installed.

[victoriaguy]

;D ;D ;D

[freddypipsqueek]

Agree with you about the Stefan and the retail price. Picked mine up for £60 on ebay so its a bit more reasonable and factoring in the need I had for a replacment cable for my HD580's it made sense. Soldered on a better plug (Viablue). The wire is very stiff though and it takes a while to loosen up though even then its not ideal.

If you're buying cables & source at the same time I agree with you. Spend the money on the source. In many case though a better cable is added at a later date or the "jump" from one piece of kit to another is more that the cable adds to the price (say HD600 to HD800). Not saying thats an excuse for being ripped off as I'm sure I have been in the past.

Would say also that I did try a double helix cable. Also got this s/h at a 'reasonable' price intending it for the HD580's. Used it in the end to rewire some Allesandro MS2's where the wire was failing at the "Y". Sound quality wise it made no difference whatsoever.

[Deleted]

Good price at least for Stefan!!

It's just that new people to hi fi often CAN't hear much difference in amps (Sorry Frans) and even sometimes have difficulties with headphones.

So to me, a cable just doesn't make sense.

Just pure copper with good plugs/ Ain't much better than that to link up an Iopd to an amp!!

Frans - that's a scary story. Now I can see where the bitterness comes from!!!

[Deleted]

Pulled more of those stunts and can write a book about it Ian.

[chris1967]

I would like to express my opinion on the matter of cables...

I consider myself to have a good ear... this maybe nonsense, subjectivity, you can call it what you want... but i have proved myself more times "right" than "wrong" on acoustic matters...

I am no technician or technical buff, my profession is different, but i always had the passion for music... listening and playing (i play classical, acoustic and electric guitar, unfortunately not so much anymore... and in the house we have two pianos and a stage piano... i just fool around, my brother is a very good pianist...).

Also during my student years, i worked for a hi-end store as a salesman...and i had some experiences like the one Frans describes...

I am sorry to babble... but all this i say to support what i am going to say in a moment, that in my opinion i have a great deal of auditory experience...

So this is what i have gathered over the years:

Cables DO have an acoustic signature, similar design and construction cables have similar sounds, but you can not extrapolate just by construction what it is going to sound like.

Different cables (of different design and material) ALWAYS sound different... it is a matter of the listener to hear it or not, according to how much this difference is and how acute and focused the listener is.

Psychology influences a GREAT deal what you hear, and just that is not by any means, or matter to claim that therefore cables have no influence or they have a great deal... they just have.

Cable designs is what you pay for... materials (even if "exotic") is another matter, and normally are a small fraction of what you pay for.

Cable do "run in", but the differences are not great, basic acoustic signature remains.

Expensive or cheap doesn't play a role in the percentage of perceived or non perceived difference in sound quality, it simply is a concoction of auditory ability, psychology, and materialistic consumption will. Most expensive sound systems that i installed at peoples homes, unfortunately where NOT accompanied by the equivalent "software", ...music...

I have been very lucky to have been able to compare the Kimber and Van den Hull, lines we had (in the middle 80's), from cheap to expensive, and found in some cases significant differences, which have been confirmed by me and colleagues, time and time again, as well as the jokes we played on one another in the shop...(like screwing around with the setups and checking to see if WE the sales people could hear it)...

Sometimes we were pleasantly surprised by cheaper diy cables compared with equivalent expensive branded models.

Because of the complexity of these matters, people tend to oversimplify matters claiming the extremes... i have great respect for all in here, but i do not agree that cables make no difference.

What i DO agree upon, is that if a 20euro diy cable is decent, it is up to the consumer to decide if he wants to pay 100euro's for another branded cable that has the equivalent performance...the same applies if you add another zero on both values...

This is what it is all about, and if (philosophically speaking) any manufacturer may or may not charge what he thinks is worth, for something that is so vaguely described...

Thank you for reading, sorry for the long post.

[clausdk]

If speakercables matter how does one explain that headphonecables does not matter ??
A headphone is just a small speaker..

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Deleted]

Chris
I believe that many audible differences are due to the L (inductance) and C (capacitance) of the cables interacting with the device itself. Years ago, there were as a lot of 3 and 5 pin DIN cables in use, and many of these had horrendous amounts of capacitance, some mesuring as high as 400pF in a typical length lead of the time.
Replacing these with more modern lower capacitance types was a revelation. More recently,I bought a couple of very nice 2metre low capacitance Blue Jeans Cables, because I had a fairly long distance between the DAC etc. on one side of the cabinet, and the preamp and power amplifier on the other side.These cables had a capacitance of just over half that of a typical good quality coax type interconnect of the same length. Surprisingly, drums in particular,sounded far too metallic, and I reverted to using normal 2 metre coax type leads. In hindsight, I could most likely have added the difference between the capacitance of the 2 types of leads to the 100pF capacitor at the output of the DAC to rectify that anomaly !
Alex

[pjc68]

Jan 15, 2011 12:04:37 GMT @clausdk said:

If speakercables matter how does one explain that headphonecables does not matter ??
A headphone is just a small speaker..

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Here here
paddy

[pjc68]

Im,e no expert but out of all the interconnects i have heard kimber
was clearly the best.
paddy

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2011 12:04:37 GMT @clausdk said:

If speakercables matter how does one explain that headphonecables does not matter ??
A headphone is just a small speaker..

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Claus
I feel sure that Frans has already been through that with you in other threads. While Frans and myself often have minor areas of disagreement, I am in broad agreement with him on this issue.
There may be on occasions some very minor SQ differences, but most of it will more often than not be due to expectation, and the amount of money spent. Speaker cables on the other hand are more likely to have slightly more audible differences due to the much lower impedance of loudspeakers, which is often around 4 ohms these days, and can dip lower in parts of the frequency spectrum due to crossover networks and the type and number of drivers in use etc.
Headphones on the other hand, with a few exceptions are normally well over 8 ohms impedance, and more often than not, more than 30 ohms impedance . or as high as 300 ohms.
In other words, power losses etc, are negligible at those higher impedances with typical length headphone cables.
Alex
P.S.
This is a simplified explanation.

[Deleted]

That's why I say everyone has an audio RELIGION.

Knowledge based on how someone THINKS it works and personal experience of this individial and the types of people they like to agree/surround/concur with defines your religion.

Which 'religion' is right ?... Christian, Katholic, Muslim, Hare Krishna, Budhism, Hinduism, Aboriginals, Gnostic people, A-Gnostic people... Each religious person all has the CONVICTION that their belief is the correct one.

So interlink cables... religion.. why.. ? .. all the claims that are made cannot be verified with objective tests so you have to belief it will.

added bonus for non-believers ... we save ourselves a LOT of:
Time, money. effort, insecurities, doubt and did I mention MONEY ?

On the other hand if you feel it's worth the money there will be a lot of people jumping in at the opprtunity to help you spend it and get very rich of it and have nice words and websites with enticing words to reel you in.
It's your money and if you feel it is very beneficial then by all means do.

It is my 'belief' you better spend your money on better cans, sources, amps, music then on cables.