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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 7:07:29 GMT
Do you use a twisted pair plus a screen ? Kind of... Its Mogami Neglex Quad microphone cable (W2534). I don't know if it's absolutely necessary; but i bought it in bulk for car audio (where its does matter) and its' certainly not hurting for home use. Mogami and Canare or the best cables of the semi-cheap kind, combined with some Deltron phono's they make some fine interconnects. Marc Are they in 2 individual, screened twisted pairs ? If not,HF channel separation will be reduced. Forget this garbage that the vinyl addicts spout about only needing 30dB or so of channel separation. Much higher than previously achknowledged amounts of separation is beneficial, and permits far better localisation of instruments and voices, and the "air" between instruments. Alex |
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Post by gommer on Jan 14, 2011 8:04:58 GMT
Are they in 2 individual, screened twisted pairs ? Yep, they sure are. So, each channel uses 4 conductors of 1 cable, 2x signal and 2x ground and the shield is connected to ground at the source side. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 8:12:36 GMT
Are they in 2 individual, screened twisted pairs ? Yep, they sure are. So, each channel uses 4 conductors of 1 cable, 2x signal and 2x ground and the shield is connected to ground at the source side. And the capacitance ? |
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Post by gommer on Jan 14, 2011 8:23:56 GMT
www.mogamicable.com/category/bulk/microphone/quad/97pF/m or double, I'm not sure how they define balanced (stereo, single pair per channel or the way I use it) and i'm too lazy to work it out from the inter conductor capacitances Edit: I just worked it out and the way that I construct the cable, the equivalent capacitance is 99pF/m (parallelling of 2x 4pF and 2x 13pF and 2x (2x 65pf in series) equals 8+26+65 ) very close tot the (probably measured) spec of Mogami.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 8:38:10 GMT
marc
A writeup, including your construction, in a new thread about your cables may be of interest to quite a few members.
Alex
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Post by bmxargh on Jan 14, 2011 8:41:31 GMT
If you got a Cowon D2 it will drive most phones OK, it is a very nice player that packs quite a kick (if you set it in nonEUmode) The setup I use for the dogwalking is Dt880 and Cowon D2 nice combo.. I spent most the evening (once kids and better half were in bed) fiddling with HiFi jumping from CD/integrated amp over to Cowon comparisons. Quick changes of my Grado's from one to the other and thoroughly enjoying myself. Now to be expected the CD/integrated amp really does make the Grado's shine things just seem more taut, punchy,scale and the sound staging/image is noticeably different. The Cowon is still loved (and all ripped files are done lossless) but understandably not quite as good so here is the question.... If I were to buy one of these dinky portable amps would it push/drive the Grado's close to what they do when on the HiFi??? If so I will happily part with the £70ish for one and walk with it. These Grado's have given me a massive urge to upgrade my separates system which is a nightmare lol. The bloody things even have made me want some better headphones :S not in a bad way at all but very positive they make listening a pure pleasure, I mean I absolutely love them and they quite simply are awesome!!!! Its just if they are capable of this then what the hell are the more expensive ones like!!!! I can see me owning more than one pair of over ears here  |
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Post by gommer on Jan 14, 2011 8:47:34 GMT
marc A writeup, including your construction, in a new thread about your cables may be of interest to quite a few members. Alex Actually, I'm going to assemble some interconnects in the coming weeks, I'll take some pics in the process and do the write-up. |
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Post by gommer on Jan 14, 2011 8:58:24 GMT
I know the feeling. I've received AKG-701's as a Christmas gift and I've been listening to them without a HA, straight from onboard computer output (while Panda amp and DAC are in te making). My 2nd half now complains about the loudness of the open AKG's and I have to go back to my Sure E2's when she's around. I always thought these in ear phones sounded good, until, well, until I went back to them after listening to the AKG's. Now i'm probably in the market for some high-end closed can's, and i already had a hard time explaining the wife why i wanted the AKG's  Shit happens. |
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Post by clausdk on Jan 14, 2011 8:58:32 GMT
If you got a Cowon D2 it will drive most phones OK, it is a very nice player that packs quite a kick (if you set it in nonEUmode) The setup I use for the dogwalking is Dt880 and Cowon D2 nice combo.. I spent most the evening (once kids and better half were in bed) fiddling with HiFi jumping from CD/integrated amp over to Cowon comparisons. Quick changes of my Grado's from one to the other and thoroughly enjoying myself. Now to be expected the CD/integrated amp really does make the Grado's shine things just seem more taut, punchy,scale and the sound staging/image is noticeably different. The Cowon is still loved (and all ripped files are done lossless) but understandably not quite as good so here is the question.... If I were to buy one of these dinky portable amps would it push/drive the Grado's close to what they do when on the HiFi??? If so I will happily part with the £70ish for one and walk with it. These Grado's have given me a massive urge to upgrade my separates system which is a nightmare lol. The bloody things even have made me want some better headphones :S not in a bad way at all but very positive they make listening a pure pleasure, I mean I absolutely love them and they quite simply are awesome!!!! Its just if they are capable of this then what the hell are the more expensive ones like!!!! I can see me owning more than one pair of over ears here The best advice I can give is to run like the wind before you get really bitten  A portable should be at least as good as your integrated amp. If you use your PC for music, you could look for something like the Ibasso D10, NG98 and what they are called, they all have DACs in them and will boost the sound from your computer.. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 9:03:44 GMT
marc A writeup, including your construction, in a new thread about your cables may be of interest to quite a few members. Alex Actually, I'm going to assemble some interconnects in the coming weeks, I'll take some pics in the process and do the write-up. Marc I look forward to seeing it. Regards Alex |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 9:10:49 GMT
marc A writeup, including your construction, in a new thread about your cables may be of interest to quite a few members. Alex This interlink article too ! www.mediafire.com/?afte6nx6ib9ji42 |
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Post by gommer on Jan 14, 2011 9:27:48 GMT
Hi Frans,
You actually prove my point about the cables that i construct: it's first goal was using them in high-end car audio end a good cable picks up less noise.
Mind you, a good cable should not be expensive. I construct a stereo pair for around €5 (should check and will check for the write-up) and it has the added benefit of being very flexible and being build to required length.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 9:55:14 GMT
and with directional you mean the shield is connected to only one side ?
Which is your preffered side (source/load) and why, and why not use the low Ohmic qualities of a screen as now the resistance in the return path is higher and thus groud loops will induce higher voltages.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 9:57:26 GMT
marc A writeup, including your construction, in a new thread about your cables may be of interest to quite a few members. Alex This interlink article too ! www.mediafire.com/?afte6nx6ib9ji42Frans Personally, I am more than happy with good quality twin shield coax type construction leads of up to 1.5Metres length. Nevertheless, I think that RG members should be given the opportunity to try out Marc's constructions for themselves. I take issue with these claims in particular from the link. (attached)  Several members here have already found out for themselves, especially as regards the Class A HA,and the SC DAC, that this is outdated codswollop written by yet another Objectivist EE, who believes that their calculations are the be all, end all, and that anybody who believes differently, is suffering from a "Placebo" type effect. Not only is that insulting, but completely in error. Test instruments are NOT a replacement for the human ear, although some closed minded EEs sometimes think otherwise. Alex Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 10:04:11 GMT
I don't know anything about the Cowan D2 (maybe Helliharris can chip in here) but hooking it up would be something along the lines of this:  From the sounds of it a portable is not really what you are looking for.... for dog walking duty the headout of the cowan will be fine, you don't want to have to strap an amp onto yourself.... Dog + headphones + amp+ cowan is a lot going on at once , we don't want you or the dog getting hit by a passing bus  The X-CAN V3 is a lovely amp but I think an X-Can V2 may be a better match for the SR-80.... only thing with the V2 is the output coupling caps are 220uF (non polar) so the cutoff frequency with low Z 'phones will be about 20Hz.... better to replace them with 1000uF (non polar) which will take it down to 4.9Hz..... May just be me but I have never been comfortable with Grado 'phones via the X-CAN V3... I find the sound too bright and grating.... the V2 is a more "rounded" sound and injects a bit of (much needed) warmth into the Grado 'phones. I could sit here all night recommending amps but, at the end of the day, need to know your musical tastes / do you prefer warm or neutral.... blah blah blah, etc. etc. etc. There is no "one size fits all" when it comes to headphone listening, our ears are as unique as our fingerprints.... one thing I will say though, if this is your first venture into the world of headphone amps then definitely buy secondhand.... there are some really good bargains to be had on ebay.... don't think that "new" means better, 9 times out of ten "new" means a stripped down version of the amp that went before it at a hiked up price The amp that Frans pointed out gets VERY good feedback here from a few of our members, I haven't tried it myself but it sure does seem a great buy.... you wouldn't go far wrong buying one of them. Mike. Mike, I purchased my Cowon D2+ on recommendation from claus, a fine little player, not as user friendly as the iPod classic, but certainly has the edge in sound quality, Cowons jetEffect-BBE+ sound adjustment system works very well, if you need, or want to alter the highs, mids and lows. It has just been superseded by the D3(new this week) which will probably be even better, but totally different in looks and size, and of course more expensive. I have a 1mtr "Chord" 3.5mm- twin phono plug lead (very expensive) and a 250mm 3.5-3.5 purchased from Zigis (very cheap), i can not detect any difference between the two regarding SQ, when used on the Cowon or the iPod, the extra length on the Chord just being more useful on occasion. Bmxargh, We have all given you what we feel to be a good selection of ideas concerning amps for your Grado`s, sooner or later you will just have to buy something (hopefully recommended here) and give it a try. YOUR EARS are the only deciding factor at the end of the day. Mick. |
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Post by gommer on Jan 14, 2011 10:26:04 GMT
and with directional you mean the shield is connected to only one side ? Which is your preffered side (source/load) and why, and why not use the low Ohmic qualities of a screen as now the resistance in the return path is higher and thus groud loops will induce higher voltages. Yes, with regard to the shield connection. Why? because not all equipment connects signal ground to equipment ground on it's inputs. Therefore, shield is connected to ground at source, because there it's always connected to ground (at least for single ended) and you don't introduce ground loops through the shield. While these are important facts in car audio, cable construction is done from that perspective. You might argue that shield connection on both ends is good for home use, but I prefer to build all cables the same and I don't think that with a good ground connection, it would hurt. In the odd event that single ended home equipment with floating signal ground exists, it's even beneficial. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 10:33:14 GMT
Frans Personally, I am more than happy with good quality twin shield coax type construction leads of up to 1.5Metres length. Nevertheless, I think that RG members should be given the opportunity to try out Marc's constructions for themselves. I take issue with these claims in particular from the link. (attached) Several members here have already found out for themselves, especially as regards the Class A HA,and the SC DAC, that this is outdated codswollop written by yet another Objectivist EE, who believes that their calculations are the be all, end all, and that anybody who believes differently, is suffering from a "Placebo" type effect. Not only is that insulting, but completely in error. Test instruments are NOT a replacement for the human ear, although some closed minded EEs sometimes think otherwise. Alex It's not insulting at all. It's simple research and a different opinion than what's most ventilated in audio forums. which you call outdated and only refer to stereo separation and not the other aspects. Who dictates what can and cannot be posted and all posts should be beneficial to subjectivists ? Who are you to call EE's closeminded... that is insulting at least and your personal opinion as well. Consider this: We all know our eyes can be fooled easily with many, many examples and everyone 'sees' the same effect. Yet human hearing is created perfect and cannot be fooled (at least not from audiophiles) ? Now let's discuss cables and constructions in another thread and not this one. It's poluting and non-constructive.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 10:47:05 GMT
Frans I said "although some closed minded EEs sometimes think otherwise." NOT all EEs. You should know better than post a provocative link like that if you weren't trying to elicit such a response. It was also obviously posted to counter my previous remark about channel separation. Alex P.S. I have already stated that this cable construction should be in a new thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 11:19:54 GMT
I was not aware of you posting something about channel separation so no.. that was not the reason.
It was posted for Marc in respons to your post about him making a thread which I think is great and concur.
and yes it was posted to defend my belief as others post things to defend their audioreligion and to be able to make up ones mind one needs input from both camps IMHO.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 11:36:00 GMT
Frans I posted the attached at the top of this very page a little earlier. Do you wonder why I reacted as I did after reading the link you gave ? How would you have reacted ? I also stated previously that I was quite happy with my double screened coax type interconnects. However, opposing views should not dissuade members from trying Marc's construction methods, and making up their own minds as to the value of his methods. If nothing else, they may end up with leads the equal of the better commercial interconnects at a very good price. Alex |
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Post by bmxargh on Jan 14, 2011 13:12:11 GMT
I hear you Mick and appreciate everyones input thus far its helped greatly!!!!Think I may firstly look into the CMOY suggested buy Neco (its a good step in , not just for the dog walks etc but for when away etc and not have access to my HiFi system..... Then very tempted by the suggestion of the Musical Fidelity X-CAN V2 over the V3 after looking at those 2nd hand prices, could land a real bargin at a later date. All in all letting me delve into the world of headphones at a very reasonable price  Cool stuff!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 14:53:44 GMT
Actually, I have a Grado SRE80i and imo it's a slightly tamed version of the old SR80. Not quite as harsh and now it ships with comfy pads not those awful bowls.
Maybe an amp to consider which is cheap to try out is the Morph? I tried it with the sr80 and it kind of adds a little more depth to the perceived sound. A nice combo (and cheap if it's your first venture into an amp)
I connect mine with string and a hint of copper. Makes all the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 15:20:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 17:18:55 GMT
If you opt for a Neco, I would recommend that you ask Neco to turn the gain down to 3; especially for the Grados.
I have one at 5 and one at 3 and the 3 version tracks better at the lower end of the volume pot.
This one is a cracker amp. Tough as old boots. Fantastic battery life and excellent sound. My favourite portable. (At least, cheap portable)
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Post by bmxargh on Jan 14, 2011 17:19:36 GMT
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