Miracle Wraps review

[funk1969]

I never expected there was life in this thread. I guess I didn't miss much...

[Deleted]

eh?

I'm not sure what you mean.

The wraps work really well and my original feeling was that they were expensive, even at the offer price of 100 euros for a small set.

I must say, it is quite an enigma in that you just sit there thinking what on earth has changed. Both Mike and myself weren't expecting a great deal from it and we both felt there was something quite strange going on with the sound.

Therefore the claims that the manufacturer make seem to be pretty right. However, we aren't white coat people and it remains to be seen what comes of them

I actually missed them when I sent them to Leo and felt that my system reverted to its original state.

I'm going to try these mini ones with the Sunrise. Now that'll be a cracker. I really like the Sunrise and if it can be made even better sounding, I'll be hooting for joy!!!!

They work, but I feel that they're a niche market for people with expensive high end gear, but if the guy that makes them lowered the price, I would buy them for sure. (and I'm not poor by any means!!!)

[Deleted]

Mike, I must be losing my marbles. It improves the Sunrise imo!! It seems crisper which is not what I expected. I felt that it might go even more bassy after the V8 but not so. It seems more 'lively'. Bass levels haven't risen but it sounds just more 'balanced' and I think I'm hearing more inner detail again.

Mp3 noise is quite easily heard now. I'm getting hiss from some files and also a tiny amount of distortion on some peaks with some files as well.

It seems to have more effect on mains stuff. I was a bit underwhelmed with the Neco.

Tech guys must think we're nuts here!! I think it just feels 'cleaner' and there's a kind of 'grit' taken away from the sound, like the glass has been polished.

I wonder whether it is actually something to do with mains power? I seem quite susceptible to mains problems (as I was with the Sunrise before you nobbled it for me) ie; can the same effect be had from a really good power supply? Is something getting through from the mains that these teabags seem to suppress? It is really baffling but the image seems more placed as well!! I just don't get it.

I put a teabag on the front between the headphone out and the volume control so all of the electrics are covered in the front. One on the input at the back and the Voyager one on the two caps at the back. I was thinking of stuffing another one down the back, behind the tube, but I couldn't be bothered to pull the whole thing apart. I could stuff the final one in there I suppose.

It does seem to have a profound effect on the sound. The space seems to grow.

So far, it's also been slightly inconsistent. The V8 seemed fatter, but the Sunrise doesn't.

The effects in 'common' have included:

a) better inner clarity.
b) both seem to have a better grip of the music.
c) more engaing.
d) less fatiguing.
e) works well at lower volumes as well.
f) clearer soundstage.
g) more awareness of acoustic and noise.

It's as if the Sunrise has had a mod done to it - like a change of capacitors or something.

I can hear Frans laughing very loudly here.

Try it, Mike. It's works a treat. The DT990 with the Sunrise all teabagged up is drop dead gorgeous. If the Sunrise packs up on me I'm going to be heart broken. It really is a really good amp and these teabags are doing something very strange with it.

A suggestion for the guy that makes these - if you attached thin rubber bands to the teabags, you could open up an amp and attach them to capacitors so that moving the amp would have no effect on where it is in there. Otherwise it could easily move in there.

It's a better idea having them inside since you're not looking at the curiosities around your external wires, but some way of fixing them would be useful.

I guess I didn't miss much...

Funk1969 - you are you know. It's odd, but there ARE changes.

However, imagine the cost of fitting out a whole system. CD player,amp, power supplies. It would soon rocket to something pretty high so scuppering itself in the lower/mid end. Things is, it is actually working with the lower end stuff as well.

[PinkFloyd]

Capacitor Johnnies.... roll them on... T-Bags implanted in the tips.... a good way to practice safe sound

[funk1969]

I am going to ignore this and buy a second HD250 II, that's it...

[Deleted]

Dec 15, 2011 1:48:29 GMT funk1969 said:

I am going to ignore this and buy a second HD250 II, that's it...

A second, or second hand? Nice if you can find one. I wore my old pair out and was lucky enough to get another. With a teabag or two, even better!!!

[funk1969]

This hobby is already killing me so to speak. I saw the Linear for such a low price in such a good condition that I just couldn't ignore it. It's one of the best Sennheisers I tried given I was underwhelmed with the HD598/600/650 and HD800.

I have to quit this hobby...

[Deleted]

Capacitor Johnnies.... roll them on... T-Bags implanted in the tips.... a good way to practice safe sound

Mike
Out of curiosity, have you checked them for magnetic properties ?
Regards
Alex

[Deleted]

I did,
Also for RFI/EMI suppression (common mode and differential mode) from 10 kHz to 1GHz and resistance (conductance) which is where the claims lie.
Core and screen were measured separately and a cheap and a good (home made) quality interlink was used.
Yes, I do also consider the time it takes to work and have set test and appliance at least 24 hours apart.
This was the hardest part as gear needs to be logged and remain stable within 1% (0.1dB) over 24 hour.
a climate chamber had to/was used to fix the time/temperature/humidity measuring issues.
Also planning some RMAA tests.

Already conducting blind listening tests to take away the 'knowing' part.
the wife installs and uninstalls without me knowing/being present and keeps score.
I listen and keep score.
Yes, there will be those that will question:
a: my hearing abilities
B: test methods
c: used gear
Also AB will be tested after RMAA tests.
To get a good sample this will continue to mid jan 2012.

Results will be discussed with Nenno BEFORE posting.

[PinkFloyd]

Frans, without disclosing too much detail..... do they measure?

[Deleted]

Hi guys,
My knowledge of this subject is well known here as being not of the best but I am very interested in what Frans finds/reports. I look forward very much to reading his final report, warts and all - great stuff Frans .
Dave.

[Deleted]

Dec 16, 2011 9:29:30 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Frans, without disclosing too much detail..... do they measure?

Actually, that's the first thing that came to my mind! Does anything measure differently?

I'd love to know what the tea leaves are as well.

[Deleted]

I did,Also for RFI/EMI suppression (common mode and differential mode) from 10 kHz to 1GHz and resistance (conductance) which is where the claims lie.Core and screen were measured separately and a cheap and a good (home made) quality interlink was used.Yes, I do also consider the time it takes to work and have set test and appliance at least 24 hours apart.This was the hardest part as gear needs to be logged and remain stable within 1% (0.1dB) over 24 hour.a climate chamber had to/was used to fix the time/temperature/humidity measuring issues.Also planning some RMAA tests.Already conducting blind listening tests to take away the 'knowing' part.the wife installs and uninstalls without me knowing/being present and keeps score.I listen and keep score.

As usual, Frans uses his test equipment before actually listening.
If his tests fail to show any differences, ( highly likely) he will then suffer from a severe case of "expectation bias" and be highly unlikely to hear the differences that the rest of you have reported.
Just for once, I would like to see Frans do the LISTENING tests BEFORE he convinces his subconscious that there can't possibly be any audible differences !
Alex
P.S.
Some of Frans's cynicism must have rubbed off on me . ;D

[Deleted]

I did my utmost to convince myself that they couldn't POSSIBLY work. I really didn't take it too seriously and forgot that I had fitted them actually.

Two or three hours later, I listened to something and felt that it sounded really good and that jogged my memory.

I must be getting old.

I think Frans has been listening though in all fairness, Alex. He's been getting his wife to do sneakies and whip them off when he's not looking and see if he notices.

That's what happens after 20 years of marriage!!

[JohnnyBlue]

He's been getting his wife to do sneakies and whip them off when he's not looking and see if he notices.

Ahem!

[Deleted]

Dec 16, 2011 12:14:56 GMT JohnnyBlue said:

He's been getting his wife to do sneakies and whip them off when he's not looking and see if he notices.

Ahem!

Oh. It's all perefectly above board. All in the name of science and he did marry her in the first place.

[JohnnyBlue]

Dec 16, 2011 12:18:12 GMT @iancraig10 said:

Dec 16, 2011 12:14:56 GMT JohnnyBlue said:

Ahem!

Oh. It's all perefectly above board. All in the name of science and he did marry her in the first place.

I think if I'd get short shrift from my Missus (of 12 years) if I suggested she whips 'em off without telling me, and then waits to see if I notice...

[Deleted]

Mine would just do it and laugh!! Shocking she is. Any excuse. Makes a happy man very old.

[leo]

I'll have more time to fiddle over the weekend but try the teabags inside your source , cdp or dac say near the phono sockets or near the traffo.
Looks like one of those bags from inside a packet of salt and shake crisps inside my dac

[Deleted]

I think Frans has been listening though in all fairness, Alex.

Hi Ian
Placebo effect, or expectation bias, is a powerful thing.
If your measurements tell you that there can't possibly be any difference, then you are far less likely to hear any difference.
It is exactly the same kind of thing that Frans accuses us of with monotonous regularity.With the other way around, the degree of improvement is often claimed to be in proportion with the amount of money spent !
Alex

[Deleted]

As usual, Frans uses his test equipment before actually listening.

That's a skewed end result in the making.

I believe in miracles
Where you from
You sexy thing
I believe in miracles
Since you came along
You sexy thing

Miracles right before my eyes
You sexy thing got me hypnotised

"Miracle Wraps"

[leo]

Dec 16, 2011 10:44:40 GMT @iancraig10 said:

Dec 16, 2011 9:29:30 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Frans, without disclosing too much detail..... do they measure?

Actually, that's the first thing that came to my mind! Does anything measure differently?

I'd love to know what the tea leaves are as well.

Seeing some proper testing measurements would be good to see if there is any actual reduced EMF

[Deleted]

The tests only say something about the claimed technical improvements.
conductance and RFI.
Not all tests are done yet (conductance and RFI are) but only when all tests are done I can truly say something about the 'known' electrical properties as far as I am able to measure them. (about 2dB reduction in RFI and 1% in resistance/conductance)

The listening tests are the decisive ones.
I do listen but test electrical for made claims.
Electrical tests are easier and faster to do than blind listening test, hence my progress.
I simply only trust blind tests, so when NOT knowing if it's there.
It either sounds good, better or less good, at least that's what I expect to find but can only tell after enough samples are present.
2 out of 3 is not the same as 20 out of 30 but 20 out of 30 is the same as 2 out of 3.

Slapping them on knowing they are there doesn't work for me.
I am sure I will find them to 'work' in that case.
I dare to admit I have been fooled far too many times, and fooled many others, and simply choose to test as objective as possible.
No matter how much I convince myself it does or doesn't work auditve perception is NOT influenced by that.
The conscious and subconcious are NOT very well 'connected'.
You cannot reason away (irrational) fears, you cannot reason away optical illusions even if you know how it works.
For hearing it works exactly the same I am afraid.
All my life I have encountered the same results IF there is an audible difference it is clearly shown in blind tests.
If inconclusive it's just that.
It's no proof it doesn't do anything or someone else can't hear it, it just means I personally do not have to invest.

So even when testresults show nothing changed it may still bring change to someone and if he or she feels it is worth the investment/improvement then it is to that person.

I believe not many here that try/tried/use these wraps care even the slightest bit about test results or any of my findings (unless they confirm improvements).

So no... I am not going to reveal anything in public before all tests are done and I have contacted Nenno about it.

[elysion]

Do ordinary tea bags also work? I have a lot of different tea flavours here. My current favourite is a Mate tea mixture. ;D

Has anybody opened these reference tea bags so far? What kind of "tea" is inside?

[Deleted]

I believe not many here that try/tried/use these wraps care even the slightest bit about test results or any of my findings (unless they confirm improvements).

That's not exactly fair. The truth is, we are all interested in what you find and we do care about results of any tests as long as you are testing for the right things. That's what used to happen with CD tests. The tests were carried out in the wrong area to prove just how extraordinary CD was.

Equally, giving out test results for amplifiers using sine waves in the 70's and 80's was tommy rot because we never listen to sine waves.

If the tests that you are doing test the 'wrong' things then they are actually meaningless.

I also wonder whether the manufacturer's claims are perhaps made up because some claims are a little strange, I seem to remember. Maybe something else is happening and we're not testing for it? Who knows?

I think the biggest difference is if it can't be proved, it's not there whereas from the other viewpoint, something seems different what could it be?

This stuff will go on forever - the answer is probably a subjectivist who believes in tests as well as ears as an objective tool. Very difficult to find.

If you turn around what you said - it works equally well, Frans.

I believe not many here that test these wraps care even the slightest bit about listening results or any findings (unless they are able to confirm improvements) ;D

These statements that you make work both ways.

That's why I believe that Alex does it back.

Anyway Frans, don't worry about it, it's not a test or an exam, although I must admit, it can feel like one when you're trying gear out.