Miracle Wraps review

[Deleted]

it has do do with a mod that is hard to grasp and I have the gear to do a decent test, but who gives a fekk ??

Claus
I believe that most here would prefer to read the results of an audition by an experienced listener such as yourself.
Regards
Alex

[Deleted]

Ah well... everyone their own opinion.

If someone claims RFI is reduced and conduction is improved it triggers me to want to check, not blindly accept what someone tells me or my ears tell me when I know I have slapped them on.
I don't mind if no-one cares about it.

The listening tests I will do (what this guy listens ?) will be blind in all comfort with revealing stuff.
Simply because that is MY way and frankly I don't care if someone agrees or not.

Those that believe test gear shows NOTHING (like most audiophiles) will simply dismiss my findings and have confirmation that measuring says NOTHING as their hearing is far superior and backed up by the MANY positive results.
This ofcoarse in the event nothing different IS measured.
Those that want to buy based on, or like to know if there are technical improvements, and/or blind performed tests may perhaps be interested.

My findings may well be that RFI is suppressed or things are measurably/audibly different.
In fact I HOPE there is good RFI reduction as professionaly speaking it will be quite handy if a broadband RFI filter that is NOT electrically connected and good properties , better than ferrites, is out there.
So I hope measurements will confirm and if they do this will help people buy it based on the fact that it's not all magic but something that actually DOES something in the (known to science) realm of electricity.

Just test results AND listening tests but true AB and blind is what I like to see.
Everyone is FREE to dismiss anything I say.

and Mike don't worry... your word and that of other subjective guru's will ALWAYS be believed over whatever I say. No worries....
b.t.w. caps do measure different, however, I was never able to correlate it to what I heard or did not hear in AB or blind tests.
But my hearing is flawed

Claus... do you have wraps to try ?

[Deleted]

Those that believe test gear shows NOTHING (like most audiophiles) will simply dismiss my findings and have confirmation that measuring says NOTHING as their hearing is far superior and backed up by the MANY positive results.

Frans
I agree that the effects are indeed measurable.However, I have always believed that the human ear is much more sensitive to these minor changes than is generally accepted, and have previously said this to you on several occasions. I simply do not believe that your test equipment has adequate sensitivity at levels WAY below -100dB to measure the differences that many of us report hearing. Naturally, there is no way that you will ever agree with this.
Regards
Alex

[Deleted]

Those that believe test gear shows NOTHING (like most audiophiles)

Oh Frans, do you really believe that? I think most audiophiles are interested but they favour their ears very often over pure measurement because many of us remember the sales of amps in the 70's and 80's that measured perfectly but sound bad.

Reason - they were using the wrong measurements in order to paint a skewed picture. I remember something about not reproducing an accurate sine wave on a spectrum analyser was an indication of a poor amp which wasn't necessarily the case because we (erm) don't listen to sine waves.

So in theory, they were poor amps, but in practice they could sound rather nice!!

It's a bit similar to the Bravos and their crosstalk. In theory, very poor. Listening (at the volume I was listening) they sounded great!! (although rolled off)

You have to know what you're looking for in order to get an accurate test result.

Having said that, I'd be interested in what you don't find!!

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 23, 2011 0:36:05 GMT leo said:

Nov 23, 2011 0:20:51 GMT PinkFloyd said:

I'm using those "Zig Zag" slim Menthol filters and am not liking it "straight" any more.... It's as if the menthol filters are adding instead of subtracting.... they're only a quid for 200 (50p for 100) and got to be a bonus if they are filtering out the tar. As I say, I feel cheated if I have to roll one up without a menthol filter now so they must be have been meant to be

I still love smoking tobacco.

The zig-zags was my favourites, I used to get them in plastic tubs, smelt nice and strong taking that lid off.
Not sure if you can get them in tubs now, the flavour lasted longer than those in bags
The swan Menthol tips wasn't half as good imo.

I get them in the bags from the 99p shop... 300 filters for 99p (two bags of 150) I thought they were pretty gay at first but have really got the taste for them now PLUS they add an extra dimension to the rolling procedure... gives me a new skill to hone.... I can roll a standard fag up with one hand but am needing both hands when fitting the filter.... when I was bad with the chest infection I was building the fags with two filters.... I even tried a three skinner with 4 filters on board... it's amazing just how much tar they absorb isn't it?

I'm thinking about trying those king size Rizlas and maybe going down the 5 filter route.... pure nicotine / maximum filtration style..... The tar really isn't required is it? It's also good in that the actual "smoke" time is reduced with a couple of filters on board but (note to self) you have to remember that the filters are in.... I nearly choked to death the other day, was puffing away and thought "wtf?"... I was only smoking "filter".... pretty rank and lungs didn't like "filter"

Have you tried the E-Fags Leo? I know a girl who swears by them... £40 odd sovs for the starter kit and you can smoke them on public transport / public places... they give you the full nicotine hit and also produce realistic looking (whining non smoking bastard friendly) smoke. www.theelectroniccigarette.co.uk/

I wouldn't mind trying one of those gadgets... if they work then it could be the end of tobacco for me.... I "need" a nicotine hit and "like" a nicotine hit but would like to deliver it in a healthier way than inhaling burning smoke.

[PinkFloyd]

and Mike don't worry... your word and that of other subjective guru's will ALWAYS be believed over whatever I say

WTF is that supposed to mean? I don't want my "word" to be believed, I want people to use their own EARS and hear things for themselves.... nothing worse than some self proclaimed "expert" spouting off words or measurements... the hat either fits or it doesn't (irrespective of sales talk or measurements)... no amount of "talk" or "specs" will make a small hat fit a big head... same thing with ears, we all have a unique pair and there is no "one size fits all" solution when it comes down to aural ecstacy... listening and sound perception is an individual thing and no mathematician or self proclaimed audio "expert" can tell people what is good or bad (or non existant).... only the individual listener can decide what is right for their particular pair of ears.

[Deleted]

Nov 23, 2011 7:41:53 GMT @solderdude said:

Ah well... everyone their own opinion.

If someone claims RFI is reduced and conduction is improved it triggers me to want to check, not blindly accept what someone tells me or my ears tell me when I know I have slapped them on.
I don't mind if no-one cares about it.

Hi solderdude,

I'll be interested in the results.

It's good to see someone else living in the same alternative universe. ;D

regards

[Chris53]

Does anyone here (UK people) who has used the power version of the Miracle Wraps use 13 amp plugs or do you all have fancy mains plugs more like the ones that the maker uses in his photos?

If you use 13 amp plugs where did you fasten the Miracle Wrap to it?

[Deleted]

I wrapped it around the input to the transformer, not at the plug end. Then I had them around the rca plugs on the inputs again.

[Chris53]

Interesting, I thought in all cases you had to use them at the source end. Did they still make a difference doing it that way Ian?

[Deleted]

Nov 23, 2011 19:07:00 GMT Chris53 said:

Interesting, I thought in all cases you had to use them at the source end. Did they still make a difference doing it that way Ian?

It's hard to say, Chris. The effect apparently goes away slowly. All I felt was that the sound seemed fuller and closer. The strangest thing was I started to listen at a lower volume and the day after they went, I was back up again and it wasn't until I looked that I noticed! Very strange.

I had the power supply input plug wrapped and the phono inputs. I didn't go near the plug. I have a mains filter coming from the wall.

[rowuk]

Wow,
I think that white powder causes withdrawal symptoms. Some pretty aggressive stuff.

I for one am VERY interested in real measurements. Best case, the listening tests are confirmed, worst case, there continued´s to be no light shed on why listening and measurements do not coincide.

I think that it would be cool to know what, why and how. Then we have the knowledge to prevent problems before they occur.

[PinkFloyd]

Nenno has sent me some Miracle TTL "test bags" and a few TTL test bags for the Voyager (and other portable amps). The test bags are experimental and he wants me, and a few people here, to try them out (in various positions) INSIDE equipment.

So, you can try them next to capacitors, on top of the transformer, opamps... anywhere in fact (even on a UK mains plug). They come in bags of three and I have FOUR bags of three to distribute to members who would like to give them a go "inside" their equipment. Please PM me if interested.

I have 6 of the TTL bags for portable amps, they are designed to fit inside the Voyager but I am using the NECO as a test bed for my sample.... try them on the battery or over the opamps.... I think the TTL portable bags should fit inside most portable amps (CMOY, Neco, Voyager etc.).

Here are a few pics of the TTL bag / NECO amp.... I am going to let it "breathe" for a day or two before I have a listen.






Ian and Leo will automatically be sent samples as I know they both have a wide selection of equipment they can try them in.... these are really for the DIYer to try and there are no rules... try them anywhere inside the equipment and see if you hear an improvement.

I will be back tomorrow with some pics of the TTL test bags.

Mike.

[mrarroyo]

Interesting, look forward to the findings.

[leo]

Great stuff, it'll be fun to see what part internally these things are most effective with.

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 29, 2011 21:05:11 GMT leo said:

Great stuff, it'll be fun to see what part internally these things are most effective with.

I'll send you some samples on Thursday Leo (internal ones) and "yes" to your proposition via PM.... please send me your details again.

Mike.

[Miracle]

Mike already communicated almost everything concerning the TTL Test Bags. I have a few points to add:

About the TTL Test Bags; as with the Miracle Wraps some things really matter. In the first place patience is important, while effects of the TTL Treatment come in slow. One has to wait 5 minutes to hear the benefits, waiting an other 10 minutes the effects will be bigger. Your sound will keep improving for about 24 hours. Also when one removes a Test Bag or Wraps one has to wait to hear the differences. In the case the product was attached for 24 hours or more, one has to wait for half an hour at least.

Miracle Wraps and the Test Bags do function optimal, in most cases, when they are applied at the source side of the signal, so on top or close to battery’s and battery wire, see the Voyager picture. On AC power plugs and on interlinks out-plugs of the CD player or DAC.

TTL treated products need to breathe, so never pack, store or send them in plastics or artificial stuff.

There is a How to use Miracle Wraps manual on our website www.referencetweaks.com/products.htm which you also can use with the Test Bags.

Attachments:

[Miracle]

Disclaimer:

Attention when using Reference Tweaks products like Test Bags, Graham Slee Magic bags and Miracle Wraps.

When placing them in- or outside the equipment, it is users self responsibility to consider the safety and be careful when placing the Reference Tweaks products. In case when accident or damage happens, our company or her representives will not take any responsibility at all.

Happy tweaking! Happy listening!

[mrarroyo]

Nice new products! Look forward to hearing the impressions, hope they follow the same great results some of us have heard with the "regular" miracle wraps.

[PinkFloyd]

I have been listening to the TTL "bag" in the Neco portable for a few days now and am not sure I can get to grips with what it has done to the sound but it seems to have totally mellowed it out and I'm not sure I'm liking the presentation as much as without the TTL bag (let's call it the T-Bag)....

I am sourcing the T-Bagged Neco with an iphone 3Gs (lossless files) into Beyer DT-990 Pro (250 ohm) and, herein lies the problem I think.... I am used to listening to my "phone" with either Koss Portapro, Senn PX-100 or Ultimate ears triple fi type 'phones.... I don't think the Neco has the necessary oomph to drive the DT-990 nor do I think the 3Gs has the "class" as a source....

What "is" there isn't bad but it's lacking the ooompappa that I am used to from easier to drive 'phones..... in fact, it's probably more "Hi-Fi" than usual but quite a bit too polite for my taste.

This is where me and portable (as source) become unstuck.... I am NOT a portable person and any "portable" listening I do is more out of a "have a listen to this" than a "I want to listen to music when I leave the house and am walking along the road / sitting on a bus" type thing.....

I have all the portable gear to hand but very seldom use it.... I have become very friendly with the guys in the bike shop and they reckon they have never heard sound "that good" even from their main systems.... I was letting them listen to an old ipod 30GB / video type thing which has over 7,000 shitty 128kbps compressed songs on it (not amped) and they thought it was the dog's nads.... PX-100 'phones direct out of an older type 30GB ipod playing 128kps files, there's no accounting for taste

It's just a case of me "physically" charging a load of stuff up and spending a day in the bike shop (easily done!).... a mini "meet" and I will be able to draw a lot of conclusions from the smiles (or not) on their faces as I go up the gears (recording, source, amplication, headphones etc.)....

All this has fekk all to do with the T-Bags.... I have digressed to the point of confusing myself..... it's more to do with "ME" regaining my passion for all this stuff.... I asked the guys in the bike shop if they would like to hear what their "phones" could sound like and they said "OH yes please" so it looks like I am slowly starting to regain my desire to share

What has all this to do with Dutch T-Bags? Nothing! I will be sending out the four samples of "T" to members tomorrow and hope they will report on their impressions / observations (if they have any).....

I'm off to try a more conventional source with the Neco (the full Tetley).... I can't believe that I am "seriously" sitting here (with my eyes closed) trying to tune in to an "iphone" as source..... What the hell?!!!

[PinkFloyd]

I've sprinkled in 3 of the "TTL" bags and two of the "Voyager TTL bags" into my Panda amp... they have been in there for a couple of weeks now (pics to follow)....

One on top of the transformer (toroid), a couple inbetween the power capacitors, one on the IEC inlet socket and one resting on top of the RCA inputs.

I'll sum this up very fast.... in my opinion these things work! It's the first time in ages that I have thought to myself "WOW!", when listening to the HD-600's.... I had and "eargasm" (the first for ages) the other night listening through the Panda with HD-600....

There is no absolute difference that can be dissected or analysed, it's just a lot more captivating, more involving and extremely musical listen... seems to convey the actual "meaning", the "message", the "enjoyment", the "emotion", the "vibe"..... it's more like music "with booze", music with "atmosphere".... it's as if those (illicit looking) sachets are adding a venue, lighting, aroma, buzz to the "equipment"!!

I can't explain it, I don't need to explain it.... one thing I am sure of is the Miracle wraps DO take the effort out of listening..... they appear to drug / condition the equipment and what appears at your ears requires no further lubrication.

I am NOT taking the piss here and am absolutely at a loss for "words".... they have surprised me BIG TIME... a little "bag" positioned between capacitors.... a little bag sitting on top of an IEC inlet socket..... If you had described that to me I would have said "BULLCRAP!"... thing is, fortunately I have tried them for myself and can honestly state.... they are a miracle.

Frans, I think you may find these hard to analyse but your ears will soon tell you that these do what they claim to do

Mike.

[Deleted]

It's been a bit underwhelming on the Neco. Maybe it's better with mains driven stuff.

I'm not exactly sure where to put them if you'll pardon the expression!! I may try it with the Sunrise since it's easily accessed as well.

My feeling is the Neco was pretty much as it was. (I think) However, the big ones changed my V8 dramatically because now, I'm back to the same volume as previously and it's just not as 'rich' sounding.

If it works with the Sunrise, then I may insert them into the V8 since the bigger ones did work with it.

The little ones have the advantage that you can put them inside and forget them. ie; you're not looking at a bandage round your cables!! However, it now makes me wonder if it gets any better by cabling the wires/plugs and also the internals.

The full monty as it were.

[PinkFloyd]

Dec 13, 2011 22:17:39 GMT @iancraig10 said:

It's been a bit underwhelming on the Neco. Maybe it's better with mains driven stuff.

I'm not exactly sure where to put them if you'll pardon the expression!! I may try it with the Sunrise since it's easily accessed as well.

My feeling is the Neco was pretty much as it was. (I think) However, the big ones changed my V8 dramatically because now, I'm back to the same volume as previously and it's just not as 'rich' sounding.

If it works with the Sunrise, then I may insert them into the V8 since the bigger ones did work with it.

The little ones have the advantage that you can put them inside and forget them. ie; you're not looking at a bandage round your cables!! However, it now makes me wonder if it gets any better by cabling the wires/plugs and also the internals.

The full monty as it were.

The Sunrise may prove to be the ideal test bed for them Ian. IIRC you have 3 T-BAGS and one Voyager bag.... stick one either side of the valve, place another one at the power input and shove one in at the input section.... these are "experimental" T-Bags so feel free to experiment with positioning.... play about with them.

I heard a "most welcome" insertion effect after they were in position for a few days, no doubts at all (and no connection to the manufacturer or desire to promote them whatsoever / I think you all know by now that I am genuine and say it as I hear it without any pressure from any quarters)....

The strange thing is this..... They do the business but I wouldn't pay the asking price for them... even though I "KNOW" they do what they claim there is no way I would pay for them....

They just look so SHITE! I am always going on about "looks don't matter" but this is one instance where looks DO matter!

Nobody is going to pay $$$ to have a pair of tampons wrapped around their system (however good the sound).... the miracle wraps "work" but their appearance doesn't appeal.

[XTRProf]

Dec 13, 2011 22:50:53 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Nobody is going to pay $$$ to have a pair of tampons wrapped around their system (however good the sound).... the miracle wraps "work" but their appearance doesn't appeal.

The wifes and their girlfriends will also be thinking why you guys "stole" their tampons? Next time, they will be thinking you guys will steal their stockings for the hifi insanity. Gulp .........!

[Deleted]

The strange thing is this..... They do the business but I wouldn't pay the asking price for them... even though I "KNOW" they do what they claim there is no way I would pay for them....

That's exactly how I feel, Mike. Too expensive. There's no way I'd pay 100 eauros (or more) for them. I'd buy another amp. (or headphone)

My feeling is that they do actually do something to the system but the pricing is not quite right.

Funny thing pricing - I've been testing a really nice amp and once again, the price comes into play and once you see the competition, you realise that you have to be very careful about pricing point and also, how makers will price according to market, not value.

Especially with the financial climate at the moment, people just aren't really going to lash out onthe wraps imo in big numbers so it could end up and another thing that happened once and then was forgotten about tbh.

The price imo will kill it off.

I also wonder whether it's more effective with mains driven gear? I didn't find that much happening with the Neo or maybe it's a reflection on the relatively 'lower' fi gear so it doesn't get revealed, whatever it is.