Miracle Wraps review

[Deleted]

Nothing wrong with a bank of tests.

They will at least tell you that any perceived difference is or is not due to x,y or z. Eliminating certain parameters from the search.

If one or many are convinced they can hear differences the tests won't convince them otherwise.

Personally, I'd love the tests to point to a definite reason(s) as to why an effect can be heard by those as posted.

I'd also like a proper breakdown of what actually goes into their manufacture, i.e. is there a fair mark up from the manufacturer or is he taking the piss?

[Deleted]

or is he taking the piss?

;D

Well, I wouldn't buy them at that price. Even though I think they're doing something. I'd rather have another headphone frankly.

[Deleted]

These statements that you make work both ways. That's why I believe that Alex does it back.

Hi Ian
In the 2 previous replies from me , I used the wrong word.
I realised before I logged on this morning that I should have used the word "expectation" which I have used previously.
None of us are immune to it's effects, no matter which side of the fence we sit on.Frans accuses us of this, yet he is doing exactly the same thing by almost certainly having his test results influence what differences (if any) he is likely to hear. This is a continuing failing from members of the Objectivist side, and can be seen in many different forums.Many of these qualified people simply check things with their instruments, often not fully knowing what they are actually testing for, other than preconceived notions, then refuse to even listen!!! ( I have quite a bit of personal experience of this, and this time I am not referring to Frans ) No wonder the gulf between subjectivity and Objectivity remains so wide.
Alex

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2011 20:56:35 GMT @sandyk said:

These statements that you make work both ways. That's why I believe that Alex does it back.

Hi Ian
In the 2 previous replies from me , I used the wrong word.
I realised before I logged on this morning that I should have used the word "expectation" which I have used previously.
None of us are immune to it's effects, no matter which side of the fence we sit on.Frans accuses us of this, yet he is doing exactly the same thing by almost certainly having his test results influence what differences (if any) he is likely to hear. This is a continuing failing from members of the Objectivist side, and can be seen in many different forums.Many of these qualified people simply check things with their instruments, often not fully knowing what they are actually testing for, other than preconceived notions, then refuse to even listen!!! ( I have quite a bit of personal experience of this, and this time I am not referring to Frans ) No wonder the gulf between subjectivity and Objectivity remains so wide.
Alex

I realised when I logged on this evening that I should have used the word "expectation" which I have used previously.
None of us are immune to it's effects, no matter which side of the fence we sit on. Alex accuses us of this, yet he is doing exactly the same thing by almost certainly having his knowledge of things having changed influence what differences (if none) he is likely to hear. This is a continuing failing from members of the Subjectivist side, and can be seen in many different forums. Many of these 'qualified' people simply check things with their ears, often not fully knowing what they are actually testing, other than preconceived notions, they refuse to even measure!!! ( I have quite a bit of personal experience of this, and this time I am not referring to Alex ) No wonder the gulf between subjectivity and Objectivity remains so wide.
Frans ;D


Ofcourse this is just me having fun.
blind tests rule out expectation bias.
Since I am the only person listening in my own 'test panel' for my OWN evaluation I ONLY have to listen and note what I think.
No matter what I do (measure or listen) it realy doesn't matter at all for the users of this product.

As said, when I do not hear differences it will be blamed on:
my expectation bias
My inability to hear the finer nuances
the test setup
the used equipment not being hirez(s) enough

If measurements show nothing changes it will be blamed on:
technology is not advanced enough to measure.
we are looking for the wrong parameters.
test equipment can't measure the smallest changes but ears can.
tests aren't performed properly.
Test equipment doesn't have the resolution

The reason I was interested in the wraps is because of the claims in the RFI field, which I have particular interest in from my work (not audio) related applications.
Nenno knows about this as I clearly stated it in my sample request.
He also asked me to listen but in this case I do not want to know WHEN it is applied.
Something other testers didn't do but interests ME personally.

How come most on hear are confident I won't find anything or the wraps wouldn't have any RFI deminishing properties ?
Is this 'expectation' ? Is it impossible to think RFI cannot be reduced when claimed by the manufacturer and Alex has been told upto 90% RFI reduction ?
Who says materials from outside cannot influence metals/currents ?
Just because I test it doesn't mean it doesn't do what has been promised.

This is why test results from my part will be discussed with Nenno before posting and as stated before... users that can clearly hear improvements aren't mad.
If they HEAR a definite improvement and it's worth the cash I am 100% FOR using it.
It's the personal listening experience that counts not a trench war.
Many things that are verified by subjectivists have never been verified by any measurements (on account of testequipment not being good enough or not testing the whole picture) so why should this be different or validate either 'camps' viewpoint.

[Deleted]

There's no need for a 'trench war', Frans. I'm curious as to what you may find.

I'd like to know what's inside the bag as well.

If it's due to RFI suppression, then I guess I'm a good candidate for it following my Sunrise experiences and so would perhaps hear more differences than someone living in squeaky clean Switzerland or somewhere. (I chose Switzerland 'cos it was neutral in the war!!)

Maybe I need a lead top to put over all of my gear? ;D

What I was curious about was the manufacturer claim of 'conditioning'. Also, why the delayed effect?

My 'expectations' were nil and I frankly thought it was a joke so maybe my 'expectations' were in my subconscious? On the 3 amps I tried it with, it's also not consistent. Least effect on Neco.

What I don't understand is the Sunrise becoming slightly more top defined and the V8 becoming 'heavier' sounding. However, in common - they both seemed to present slightly better inner detail.

The mind is a funny thing ........

and the ears.

[Deleted]

Well, I wouldn't buy them at that price. Even though I think they're doing something. I'd rather have another headphone frankly.

That ladies and gentleman is the essence.

The most valid question one may ask is how important the change is to the individual who needs to make the choice for his/her ears with their wallet.
HOW much change is there and what is it WORTH to him/her.

[Deleted]

What Nenno told me it is not the powder that is in there that holds the secret it is what has been DONE to it.
The TTL treatment.
He is not disclosing any of it but judging from the angle he comes from one (spiritual business with an interest in subjective audio) one of the T's might be 'Transcedent' (just guessing here, pure speculation).
Also his claims are that anyone simply copying it (using the same materials) it still will do absolutely nothing as the TTL treatment is what is the working ingredient.

In any case how you look at the product the marketting is simply remarkably well thought out.

[Deleted]

blind tests rule out expectation bias.

Really ? They do NOT rule out expectation bias if you have already done measurements and not been able to verify any differences.
Alex
P.S.
You have yet to confirm with your testing methodology, a single subjective claim of any kind made by many different members, in many different audio discussions since becoming a member.Why should we expect anything different this time ?
Using your ears first, even though you do not trust or believe what they are telling you, MAY even suggest different types of tests to be tried ?






P.P.S.
All in good clean fun!

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2011 22:49:13 GMT @solderdude said:

Well, I wouldn't buy them at that price. Even though I think they're doing something. I'd rather have another headphone frankly.

That ladies and gentleman is the essence.

Not many ladies on here and very few gentlemen either.

I get the feeling that I'm a clown in a circus and you're playing the role of ringmaster, Frans. ;-)

[elysion]

Dec 17, 2011 22:49:13 GMT @solderdude said:

Well, I wouldn't buy them at that price. Even though I think they're doing something. I'd rather have another headphone frankly.

That ladies and gentleman is the essence.

The most valid question one may ask is how important the change is to the individual who needs to make the choice for his/her ears with their wallet.
HOW much change is there and what is it WORTH to him/her.

Even if the tea bags are doing something, the price is frankly a rip-off.

I've just learned a lesson a few days ago: I had to solve some computer problems for someone in our corporation that believes in esotericism. She had a special stone at her workplace for protecting her from "radiation" that emits from the computer. According to my colleage at work that does the same as I do (IT), she has paid around 400-500CHF for that stone. At least she belives that it works. But her computer didn't work properly...

It would be an easy task to prove that the stone doesn't work: I have a WLAN router at home whose EIRP (effective isotopic radiated power) can easily tweaked from 0mW up to 600mW. 200mW is what is allowed by law in most countries. In Europe this will be in the 2.4 to 2.485GHz frequency range. I'm using this router with very low settings at home (a fraction of the allowed 200mW) and I can't feel his presence at all. 200mW can be easily felt if you are close and 600mW is TOTAL PAIN even a few meter away. I know that because the router was "reseted" to 600mW after I have flashed the Tomato firmware on it. I'm sure all esotericism freaks will feel the same pain.

BTW: The use of microwave weapons (like US Army DOES) should be banned be international laws. It's criminal, nothing else...

[Deleted]

BTW: The use of microwave weapons (like US Army DOES) should be banned be international laws. It's criminal, nothing else...

And shooting them with bullets,or stabbing them with Swiss Army knives isn't ?

[elysion]

Dec 18, 2011 1:36:17 GMT @sandyk said:

BTW: The use of microwave weapons (like US Army DOES) should be banned be international laws. It's criminal, nothing else...

And shooting them with bullets,or stabbing them with Swiss Army knives isn't ?

They've used it also against their own citizens. For example in New Orleans after hurrican Kathrina. No additional comments needed I guess. Governments that use weapons against their own citizens is something that is (unfortunately) quite common. But you'd expect it rather from Syria, Gaddahi-Libya and others. But not exactly from a democratic nation.

Microwave weapons are so called "non-lethal" weapons, but that is mostly theory. A Taser is also a non-lethal weapons. But quite a few people have died because of a Taser. "Non-lethal" is just another excuse to use weapons at all.

I suggest to open a specific thread about that if you'd like to discuss it thoroughly. It's not my intention to fill this thread with politics.

[funk1969]

Calling the U.S. a democracy, come on. If you take a closer look on the political situation in the Netherlands you can just as well do away with the Parliament in The Hague.

Since when does the notion that a nation that is a democracy guarantees that the 'state' of that given nation will not use any form of violence on its inhabitants? We in the 'West' are no better off given our governments love to spy on us. Oh well...

[Deleted]

Even if the tea bags are doing something, the price is frankly a rip-off.

That's exactly what I was getting at earlier Christian.

Co Co. (The clown)

[Deleted]

I've taken the teabags off the Sunrise and put them between the RCA plugs on the V8. If they are working, then I preferred them on the V8. Although these don't wrap around, they are held in place by the rca plugs and I put another teabag on top of the plug input to the power supply.

Who knows? I feel better already.

Pagliacci.

[elysion]

What do you think, Ian: Is the difference with/without the tea bags a clear difference or is it more of the "there's perhaps a slight difference" sort?

If someone buys a Little Pinkie or a modded amp from Mike, there IS a clear difference, without any doubt. I've heard it and a lot of other people have heard it also. That's what I call a real improvement. I'm also sure that this differences can be measured in various ways. Mike has also explained many times what he's changing (for example adding more capacitance) and it is comprehensible for me.

I'm sure, I'd rather spend my money on a Little Pinkie, an upgraded or better amp or a new pair of 'phones that to buy tea bags that have seen some secret treatment. That secret part of the tea bags is very questionable IMO. It reminds me strongly of esotericism stuff. I hope it don't need to comment what I think about esotericism...

[leo]

Dec 18, 2011 13:11:12 GMT @iancraig10 said:

I've taken the teabags off the Sunrise and put them between the RCA plugs on the V8. If they are working, then I preferred them on the V8. Although these don't wrap around, they are held in place by the rca plugs and I put another teabag on top of the plug input to the power supply.

Who knows? I feel better already.

Pagliacci.

Try one inside your V8 Ian if you can, I'll post a pic later where I tried the teabags in Wills PK dac, best place for me was behind phono sockets and transformer so using two in there. Obviously mileage will vary and what works for one might not for another. Easy enough to try though even if you do feel a tit

[Deleted]

What do you think, Ian: Is the difference with/without the tea bags a clear difference or is it more of the "there's perhaps a slight difference" sort?

It's subtle and you just become aware of an inner clarity. I reckon some would find it hard to hear since imo, you need to be very finely attuned to the sound of your gear. It just seems more 'comfortable' on the ears, I guess.

However, I'm getting different results with different gear Christian so it's hard to say what it would do.

I wouldn't pay for them.

Frans is taking me not paying as a vote of no confidence as shown by his 'ladies and gents' comment to the audience in the circus of madness. (Look up 'Circus of Death'. (!!!!) Not at all. I'm thinking 100 euros for a basic set - no!!! The guy is asking too much.

I'm sure, I'd rather spend my money on a Little Pinkie, an upgraded or better amp or a new pair of 'phones that to buy tea bags that have seen some secret treatment. That secret part of the tea bags is very questionable IMO. It reminds me strongly of esotericism stuff.

Me too, Christian. Part of me doesn't believe it and the other part hears a difference. So if it's in my mind, then I'm fine with that because it's making me focus on the gear/sound more than normal. Or else it is actually doing something.

I have no idea why I prefer it on the V8, but I do. The Sunrise seems to crisp up, but I prefer the fat dirty sound it gives!!! Now whether it's all in the mind, I don't know.

My feeling is get the power supply right first. I'm just very curious as to what could be happening. Trouble is that it's starting argy bargy and I can't be arsed to argue. I'd just like to know what's going on. I'd like to repeat what's going on without having to buy them and treat the whole system, but there's no way I'd pay for the amount that I'd need.

I had another thought - could it be stopping interaction between components? There seem to be 'key' places to put them. Is it some kind of shielding?

The reason I say this is that Mike makes it one of his standard practices to place items on power cords which I believe does make a difference (Plus other shielding things inside) - and those kinds of things coupled with good earthing seems to clean up the 'inner detail'.

Mike does this on a lot of stuff that he does and imo it does make a difference to the sound - although many would say placebo again because I know that it's been done.

All I would say is the differences I now hear on the Sunrise are not slight. They're massive. In terms of noise and buzzes, the Sunrise is way down on what it was and Mike did the full monty on it with regards to shielding etc.

Now maybe that's why the teabags don't seem to be so good on the Sunrise? It's already been done by Mike electronically.

Then again, I knew it could start something when Mike sent the first lot to me to try!!

best place for me was behind phono sockets and transformer so using two in there.

I'm finding that as well, Leo. You're still using the big ones aren't you. I have these miniature ones which if placed inside could easily move around in there. Maybe a rubber band to keep them in position?

even if you do feel a tit

Yes, I do!! Especially with a little help from our circus ring leader. I've jammed one teabag between phono inputs and one on the Little Pinkie Lead in to the transformer.

That leaves me with this very small one which could be put into a crisp packet.

I wonder whether it is purely down to rfi? In which case, is really good shielding the answer.

I tried an experiment with a portable recorder today. I put music on one track and added hiss on another track, crackling bags on another track and hum on another.

That meant that I could mix in different amounts and mixes of each with the music. It DOES actually change how you perceive the music. The music hasn't changed but the amounts and types of noises makes you hear things differently.

The music has more 'perceived' depth with no noise. Now measure that and the music measures exactly the same so you'd have to be specifically looking for the noise and not the changes to the music, perhaps.

Or, it's all in my mind.

Mr Tumble.

[leo]

With this other dac I've only been trying the smaller teabags just to see if those do anything when used internally. As you've seen these small ones can't really be wrapped around something like the outer barrel of the socket so the idea was to lay them up against the phono sockets internally where they come in and go to the pcb. The inside is more exposed compared to the sockets from the outside so maybe more effective .

Maybe no difference between the small teabags and the larger tampon wraps if using the smaller ones in the right places

[leo]

[Deleted]

I get the feeling that I'm a clown in a circus and you're playing the role of ringmaster, Frans.


Ian, I think you completely misunderstood my reply.
Wasn't making fun and agreed with your statement 100%

[natospec]

i wish i one of these things, id crack it open and have my friend over at CSM run the crap inside through the machinery in the science dept. to find out what it is

[Deleted]

acc to the manufacturer its not the materials inside (the cable sleeves don't have the powder stuff inside) but it is the TTL treatment that makes it work.
So analysing the stuff and copying it is pointless.
What the letters TTL stand for nor what the treatment consists of is not disclosed.

brilliant marketing strategy as now it is copyproof (as they state on their website)

[PinkFloyd]

What the letters TTL stand for nor what the treatment consists of is not disclosed

Transcendental Tampon Levitation?

[toad]

Leo. I'd be interested to see what effect a similar sized piece of cardboard wrapped in copper tape and then cloth or sellotape etc has compaired to the TTL teabags.

Ian