Miracle Wraps review

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 21, 2011 11:01:13 GMT @sandyk said:

I wonder if anybody has tried smoking them yet?

Mike
Any luck beating the nicotine habit, or is it just too hard ?
Regards
Alex

I was chain smoking there for a while but have given it up... I find tobacco burns a lot better.... (boom boom).... nah, it's very hard Alex and seems to be about the only vice I have left these days.... of course, an nice 20 year old virgin may be an incentive to give it up but there are very few of them available

[freddypipsqueek]

One way I've tested A/B in the past is to use a (reasonable quality) tape recorder. Don't bother listening just record 30 second of A & B and then listen to the two samples during playback. I appreciate the tape player will add its own taint but any differences should be evidence.

[Deleted]

The RFI claims (from 20 kHz to 1 GHz) and conductivity improvement claims will be researched in the coming weeks.
Alas no opportunity to hook it up to calibrated equipment so only relative damping (which is most interesting) will be measured.
Will take 1 to 2 weeks as multiple tests will have to be done (repeatably) and time is needed to measure effects.

The less subjective AB listening tests will be done over a coarse of several weeks.
The wife is going to wrap and unwrap a fuse while I am away and other tests will include similar amps/players and a switch that completely uncouples the 2 sets.

Do not expect results to be posted within a few weeks.
Will discuss results Nenno first b.t.w.

[leo]

I agree Frans, the test equipment needed isn't something the casual diyer owns or has easy access to, best we have is a scope.

Trying one on the S/PDIF plug which is a 75R BNC. I can't hear any difference used here although I can imagine results will vary from equipment to equipment . This was tried with the Sabre based dacs and a digital source which has one of those Bybee purifiers fitted on the output. I will try another digital source with a more basic s/pdif out and use the AYA II which uses older dac and receiver chip.
I'm trying to get a small bit of that ERS to try

[Deleted]

I wonder whether the cable that you use makes the changes stronger or less? A well built interconnect shouldn't be susceptible to electro magnetic interference should it? It should also happen straight away and not as we're told and then as we noticed - it kind of happened later!!

[leo]

Yep, I bet it would make a bigger difference with unshielded cables, all my IC's are shielded, I could make a pair of unshielded ones just to try out.
Maybe why they suggest using the wraps around the plugs? part of the IC less shielded than say the actual cable

[Deleted]

I have access (at work) to equipment that can analyse upto 1GHz.
It can see 900MHz GSM but not 1.8GHz GSM signals.
At least not with the exact level values, only notified bodies (EMC test centres we use for independant CE marking checks) have calibrated stuff.
Nonetheless I can check for RFI between 20 kHz and 1GHz so that claim will be investigated.
as well common mode as differential mode RFI will be checked.
Normal RFI is nearly always common mode.
Common mode chokes/filters and ferrites all help (at least measurably WHEN calculated and used correctly) but at different bands like the LW to FM band upto GSM band.
Just shoving in a mains filter and having the wiring wrong or the wrong filter can even make radiated or conducted EMC behaviour worse.

Ian has a point and so I will check using good cables and cheap interlinks.
No matter how expensive or good the interconnect is doesn't matter for common mode RF signals.
They pass all cables with the same ease and do so via the screen.
That's what it is for... the screen.
It's the immunity of the gear connected to it that needs to be well prepared for incoming (and outgoing) garbage.
Worst in this department is almost all DIY equipment as no-one (well almost no-one) takes the needed preventive measures.

RFI (EMC) is a very specialistic field, not many techs understand it, nor have the needed test equipment (spectrum analysers and such).

The improved conductivity (at least when we are talking about the electric signal) is also something that can be verified.
because of the very low resistances special gear and methods have to be used.
Can't use an Ohm meter for these measurements.

For me measurements and checking claims is fun.
After that the ears will be used but the 'knowing' part must be taken out of the equasion.
At least for me as I am quite sensitive to subjective differences, more than I like to admit.

The only thing that cannot be checked is the 'balancing' of sub-atomic particles that should only be affected after some times and also 'holds' for some time.
It can only be verified with listening tests.
For me, however, only blind tests are alowed which is difficult to do properly.

[Deleted]

The blind test may be very difficult Frans. The difference I thought I heard was pretty subtle and would depend very much so on what I was listening to as well.

I tried different quality IC's and I suspect there was less difference which is opposite to what the manufacturer said - he was saying that better equipment should show more difference. I found that it was less. (I think) That's why I was wondering about the quality of cable/IC.

The other stuff on a molecular level sounds like bullshine to me. Next we'll be hearing the pattering of tiny feet as the molecules rush to do their job!!

The 'perceived' differences seemed (to me) to be more like I'd put a better cable on than I had which suggests the plug area has some kind of weakness. I seemed to get quite strong results with the MF V8 in particular. It just seemed to 'beef up' a bit.

I also felt that it was louder and had the volume set lower than I normally do. Maybe just the feeling of it being fuller.

The sound difference is one of those things that once you identify what you think you've heard, you'd listen out for it, but if you weren't certain what it was, you could put it down to a better quality recording.

I found it quite strange that I missed a daft little wrap, but I don't think I would want to pay 100 euros unless I was totally convinced that it was working.

My feeling is that it was doing something but my head tells me it couldn't - so it would be nice to see if there are actual differences there. The manufacturer doesn't really help with the cloud of mystique and talk of molecular levels of whatever.

In fact, it's that kind of talk that puts me off a product, but the fact that he's put them out for test at least shows that he has confidence in it, but that price!!

I think a long term listen so that you become attuned to the sound and then take it away may reveal more.

[Deleted]

Nov 22, 2011 19:59:08 GMT leo said:

Yep, I bet it would make a bigger difference with unshielded cables, all my IC's are shielded, I could make a pair of unshielded ones just to try out.
Maybe why they suggest using the wraps around the plugs? part of the IC less shielded than say the actual cable

Leo
The better types of plugs have screw on metal cases that cover the whole of the rear section of the plug.There should be very little unshielded area, and it may be even better than the less than 100% screening of many cables.With DIY gear where the input sockets are usually isolated from an earthed chassis, it could be interesting to use a twisted pair cable with an outer screen, and XLR plugs and sockets at both ends.The outer screen would of course be connected to chassis at both ends.
Frans or Marc may be able to shoot holes in this idea though.
Alex

[PinkFloyd]

Frans, with respect, I am not at all interested in your technical findings as it will mean very little to me.... I am more interested in reports from people who are using their ears. You already claim that all brands of capacitors sound the same (because they measure the same), all resistors sound the same etc. etc. You also poo poo the audible improvement that things like ferrite rings etc. can bring about.

You say that any improvement which cannot be "measured" must be some kind of power of suggestion, the listeners imagination, placebo effect blah blah blah.... even though many people have experienced the same effect.... you are convinced that if it doesn't "measure" different then it won't sound different (to you)....

We have been through all this before, you are set in your ways and will never believe your own ears although you do admit that you spent MANY years using your ears until you saw the "light" and now discount everybody else's "audio revelations" as either voodoo or power of suggestion. Subjectivist V objectivist and all that tosh......

Do we really NEED to perform "blind listening tests"? Do we really NEED to perform "measurements"? What the hell is wrong with one person saying "you know what... my music sounds better with these wrapped round my cables" ?

Why the hell do we need to analyse the last "nth" out of EVERYTHING? With measurements you are either trying to disprove or prove a "difference" in the results (a with and without comparison).... I KNOW that you will be totally upfront with the results but does it really "matter"?

Are we now relying on the "Frans machine" to tell us if there's an audible improvement? and do we REALLY base our buying habits on what a machine says?

I have said it before, and I'll say it again.... some of the most technically "accurate" gear I have listened to (over many years) has been some of the crappiest sound I have ever heard!! likewise, some of the poorest "specced" equipment has turned out to be aural magic... it doesn't always work out that way but MOST of the time the "on paper" specs count for nothing!

We will never agree on this one, you are too set in your ways these days.... SURE, measurements are a starting point but it always comes down to fine tuning using our ears... surely you agree on that one?

I will ALWAYS pay more attention to a thousand reports from people who use their ears than one man and his machine.... the reality is that those "thousand" people are actually listening to the music and NOTICING any improvements / changes.... the man with his machine is too into his machine to spend time relaxing and enjoying the music.

I'm not having a go at you (you know that) but have no interest in your "measurements" in much the same way as you discount thousand of people who use their ears.

Mike.

[clausdk]

I got two identical setups, so I will be able to test these wraps in a blind test..

I will not use my own ears but those who belongs to friends and family and will not tell them there is a difference, just ask them to listen to the same music on the two identical setup,

The thing is I rather die a long and agonizing dead than spend 100 bucks on a thing I do not believe in..

I am game for a double blind test and have the gear to do so, just need the wraps..

The thing is: what if nobody can hear a difference, will the subjectivist believe in me ??

If all can hear a difference will the other camp believe in that ??

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 22, 2011 23:03:33 GMT @clausdk said:

I got two identical setups, so I will be able to test these wraps in a blind test..

I will not use my own ears but those who belongs to friends and family and will not tell them there is a difference, just ask them to listen to the same music on the two identical setup,

The thing is I rather die a long and agonizing dead than spend 100 bucks on a thing I do not believe in..

I am game for a double blind test and have the gear to do so, just need the wraps..

The thing is: what if nobody can hear a difference, will the subjectivist believe in me ??

If all can hear a difference will the other camp believe in that ??

What a crock of crap!!! Are you trying to convince yourself or "prove" you have made the right decision? You will use the ears of "friends and family"?? What the fekk?!!

When you buy a new TV do you get your wife to blindfold you and ask you to guess what you think looks better? (old or new) When you try a new cheese do you get your friends to blindfold you and ask you if you can tell the difference from your favourite cheese? When you buy a new car do you drive it with a blindfold on with the backseat passengers taking notes?

What the HELL is wrong here?!! We don't need other people to tell us how / what to eat / what tastes good.... we don't need others to tell us what smells good / bad.... we don't need advice when it comes to "seeing" with our eyes (unless we need glasses) and we are perfectly good at thinking with our dicks...... I just cannot understand why so many people need to be blindfolded and get so many people involved when it comes to an EASY thing like enjoying music!

What the F@C! is happening here?

THINK about it!!!!

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 22, 2011 23:03:33 GMT @clausdk said:

I will not use my own ears but those who belongs to friends and family

Maybe it's "ME" that's been listening to music incorrectly all these years?

[Deleted]

The thing is: what if nobody can hear a difference, will the subjectivist believe in me ??If all can hear a difference will the other camp believe in that ??

Claus
A negative result is unlikely to prove a damn thing when the test is taken by those who are not used to searching for sound quality.differences between electronic components.
I place a lot more credence on reports by people with experience in the area, when they all give fairly similar accounts of what they believe are differences.I would have preferred on this occasion though, that the results should not have been posted until all the reviewing members had compiled their results and given them to an impartial member for later release.
Nevertheless, I do on this occasion accept that there are indeed repeatable results, for whatever reason, when using this product.
I don't buy the molecular BS though where the product is attached to high quality full metal RCA plugs.
Regards
Alex

[leo]

I've never been had by placebo before, something either makes a difference or doesn't . I am hearing something after fitting these in certain area's, it is subtle (to me anyway)

I don't think you need to use two identical systems in all honesty, if their going to work in your own system you'll hear it after fitting them.

[leo]

I wouldn't rely on others to tell me if something makes a difference or not . Just use a piece of music you know well and listen, also I'd have thought most people on here know their own set ups well enough to notice any changes

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 22, 2011 23:42:23 GMT leo said:

I wouldn't rely on others to tell me if something makes a difference or not . Just use a piece of music you know well and listen, also I'd have thought most people on here know their own set ups well enough to notice any changes

I need "family and friends" / blindfolds around me before I even contemplate hitting the "play" button

I am off to get into the ZONE "alone".... blindfold / family / friends free.... call me a freak, call me a weirdo.... I don't give a fekk!

I'm off to enjoy the music ON MY OWN!

[PinkFloyd]

BTW.. at the last count.... HEADPHONE listening is meant to be a pretty SOLITARY experience?

[leo]

Indeed! Sat here with the feet up supping a cup of Ringtons with the 250's stuck on the head

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 22, 2011 23:57:06 GMT leo said:

Indeed! Sat here with the feet up supping a cup of Ringtons with the 250's stuck on the head

Fancy a roll up to go with that?

I'm addicted to the menthol filters now.

Mike.

[leo]

Nov 23, 2011 0:01:12 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Nov 22, 2011 23:57:06 GMT leo said:

Indeed! Sat here with the feet up supping a cup of Ringtons with the 250's stuck on the head

Fancy a roll up to go with that?

I'm addicted to the menthol filters now.

Mike.

GIT!!! I could murder one
I actually went onto the menthol filters too just before packing up, I really miss a nice menthol roll up

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 23, 2011 0:11:47 GMT leo said:

Nov 23, 2011 0:01:12 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Fancy a roll up to go with that?

I'm addicted to the menthol filters now.

Mike.

GIT!!! I could murder one
I actually went onto the menthol filters too just before packing up, I really miss a nice menthol roll up

I'm using those "Zig Zag" slim Menthol filters and am not liking it "straight" any more.... It's as if the menthol filters are adding instead of subtracting.... they're only a quid for 200 (50p for 100) and got to be a bonus if they are filtering out the tar. As I say, I feel cheated if I have to roll one up without a menthol filter now so they must be have been meant to be

I still love smoking tobacco.

[clausdk]

Nov 22, 2011 23:17:58 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Nov 22, 2011 23:03:33 GMT @clausdk said:

I got two identical setups, so I will be able to test these wraps in a blind test..

I will not use my own ears but those who belongs to friends and family and will not tell them there is a difference, just ask them to listen to the same music on the two identical setup,

The thing is I rather die a long and agonizing dead than spend 100 bucks on a thing I do not believe in..

I am game for a double blind test and have the gear to do so, just need the wraps..

The thing is: what if nobody can hear a difference, will the subjectivist believe in me ??

If all can hear a difference will the other camp believe in that ??

What a crock of crap!!! Are you trying to convince yourself or "prove" you have made the right decision? You will use the ears of "friends and family"?? What the fekk?!!

When you buy a new TV do you get your wife to blindfold you and ask you to guess what you think looks better? (old or new) When you try a new cheese do you get your friends to blindfold you and ask you if you can tell the difference from your favourite cheese? When you buy a new car do you drive it with a blindfold on with the backseat passengers taking notes?

What the HELL is wrong here?!! We don't need other people to tell us how / what to eat / what tastes good.... we don't need others to tell us what smells good / bad.... we don't need advice when it comes to "seeing" with our eyes (unless we need glasses) and we are perfectly good at thinking with our dicks...... I just cannot understand why so many people need to be blindfolded and get so many people involved when it comes to an EASY thing like enjoying music!

What the F@C! is happening here?

THINK about it!!!!

I just wanted to take out my opinion on the stuff..

I am not asking them for advice or anything like that, just if they can hear a difference..

It has nothing to do with enjoying music, it has do do with a mod that is hard to grasp and I have the gear to do a decent test, but who gives a fekk ??

[PinkFloyd]

but who gives a fekk ??

Nobody

[leo]

Nov 23, 2011 0:20:51 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Nov 23, 2011 0:11:47 GMT leo said:

GIT!!! I could murder one
I actually went onto the menthol filters too just before packing up, I really miss a nice menthol roll up

I'm using those "Zig Zag" slim Menthol filters and am not liking it "straight" any more.... It's as if the menthol filters are adding instead of subtracting.... they're only a quid for 200 (50p for 100) and got to be a bonus if they are filtering out the tar. As I say, I feel cheated if I have to roll one up without a menthol filter now so they must be have been meant to be

I still love smoking tobacco.

The zig-zags was my favourites, I used to get them in plastic tubs, smelt nice and strong taking that lid off.
Not sure if you can get them in tubs now, the flavour lasted longer than those in bags
The swan Menthol tips wasn't half as good imo.