Burning CD-R with a BluRay Burner

[Deleted]

jeffc
Good to see that you can corroborate my findings with the 24K Gold Kodak archival. I imagine that quite a few people thought I was self delusional when I previously claimed that a copy could be burned, and sound better than the original.
Unless you are going to burn actual BluRay discs, your normal writing software will do the job.
I use either Nero or Ashampoo Burning Studio.
BTW,my LG BluRay writer (GGW-H20L) also came with Power2Go,Instant Burn (BD/DVD/CD writing software) -Power Backup (Data Backup Software) - Power Producer (Authoring Software) - Power DVD (Movie Playback Software)
I didn't bother installing any of these LE versions, as I already had better full version programs installed. I did however, buy the retail version for these added programs.
Also supplied was a Serial ATA cable (Power/Data) and a blank BluRay 25GB Rewriteable disc. (TDK BD-RE 25GB 1-2 x speed.)
Alex

P.S.
Don't forget that if you want to watch BluRay movies in full resolution from your PC, you will need a HDMI capable monitor,or DVI and HDCP compatible, as well as a Graphics card that is HDMI and HDCP (High Definition Content Protected) capable.
I ended up getting a Palit GeForce 9800GT with HDMI. It is more expensive than the cheaper ATI cards that will do the job, but I was advised that the ATI cards are much thirstier, and I may need to obtain a higher rated PSU.

[jeffc]

OK then Alex,

Retail version looks the best bet with the SATA cable, BluRay rewritable disk and other goodies included, these alone would be a lot more than the $10 extra. Might go get one this arvo, do my bit for keeping folk employed. Here's the shop site.

www.computeralliance.com.au/parts.aspx?qryCat=OPT

And thanks for the tips re graphics cards etc, I've had a Media centre/Music server on the 'to do' list for a while now. If and when it gets built, I can swap the LG Blue-Ray player/writer into it.

And on the Kodak 24K Gold archival CD-Rs, these I think were once called Ultima Gold and I had a few given to me by my brother, an electrical techo, who said then that they were pretty much the only ones guaranteed to last.

On their SQ, no question, easy to hear improvements, my guess on even a mid-fi system. Try the black pen treatment. I've also tried smoothing the edges with very fine wet-and-dry sand paper, care required here, and surface treatments (both sides) with siliconising agents (like Rain-X for car windows but from the lab) and the last few incarnations of Herbie's grungebuster CD mats.

Depending on CDP quality etc, all affect CD SQ to various extents. The combined effect can be quite a revelation.

cheers.. jeffc

[Deleted]

jeffc
I do remember the Kodak Ultima. It's been a while, but I also used to do the green/black pen trick around the CD edges.
I have a feeling that with the BluRay written discs, that the sheer accuracy of the pits will make these other little tweaks almost redundant. It may surprise you, but after the initial minor reading errors when extracting from Love Over Gold using E.A.C. with the Pioneer Burner, I treated L.O.G. with RainX !!!!
I have for many years, about once a month, been cleaning the screen of my old 28" JVC T.V. with RainX. The result is a glossier picture, that has a more saturated colour. Later TVs don't seem to benefit as much, as their glass may be smoother.
Alex

P.S.
It always used to intrigue me , how after cleaning the car windscreen with RainX, you could be driving along at a reasonable speed, and the raindrops would be floating back up to the top of the windscreen, instead of downwards. Sometimes, you didn't need to use the wipers !

[jeffc]

Alex,

Yes RainX is cool stuff used on the car windscreen, can forget about wipers in some conditions. However, it can take the ink off 'some' CD label sides and on CD-Rs not wiped for a while, leave a wax-like film. Easily washed off with water and a tissue but... ;D prefer to use the Gel Slick lab stuff that doesn't seem to do this.

OK ..... got theLG Blu-Ray writer, retail version, and an external SATA enclosure for portability for the time being. Enclosure is aluminum with both USB 2 and eSATA cable capability and no fan. Looks great, works great, except for the external SMPS which runs super hot , might try another one I have. Writer burns at x4 speed fine, essentially without vibration or noise, unless my ear is placed on the box. So all good and looking forward to trying it with the Kodak 24K gold archival disks.

cheers.. jeffc

[Will]

Interesting topic this.

Alex, how do you think cd-r's burnt on the bluray compare to audio directly out of your PC?

[Deleted]

Feb 22, 2009 13:05:54 GMT Will said:

Interesting topic this.

Alex, how do you think cd-r's burnt on the bluray compare to audio directly out of your PC?

Wilbur
I didn't do extensive listening, but when I played parts of the new discs in the Pioneer DVD writer on the P.C. , they sounded very much closer to what I normally get off the HDD.
Alex

jeffc
It's highly likely that you will be able to burn a CD using your normal CD-Rs that sounds better than the original.
Alex

[jeffc]

Alex,

You're far from delusional, ;D Laser black disk burned with the LG Blu-ray writer from the same disk type burned with a CD writer sounds quite a lot better. Used Harry Manx - Jubilee - for an initial test as this CD has great instrumental detail and nuances and as you can hear into the recording space, foot tapping, breathing and all, and into the master tape hiss.

Musical subtleties portrayed like I've never heard before in this setup.

Well worthwhile I'd suggest for anyone planning to stick with CD for a while.

cheers.. jeffc

[Deleted]

Feb 26, 2009 4:43:47 GMT jeffc said:

Alex,

You're far from delusional, ;D Laser black disk burned with the LG Blu-ray writer from the same disk type burned with a CD writer sounds quite a lot better. Used Harry Manx - Jubilee - for an initial test as this CD has great instrumental detail and nuances and as you can hear into the recording space, foot tapping, breathing and all, and into the master tape hiss.

Musical subtleties portrayed like I've never heard before in this setup.

Well worthwhile I'd suggest for anyone planning to stick with CD for a while.

cheers.. jeffc

jeffc
I am looking forward to that double CD Demo disc from Japan, that was burned via BluRay
Alex

[Deleted]

I received a package from the land of the "Rising Sun" this morning. - "Feel the Difference of the Blu-Spec CD" The 1st CD was made from a master that was burned by the shorter wavelength BluRay laser.The 2nd CD was the same content on a normal CD. (Sony Music (Japan)
Artists on the 17 track CDs include Bob Dylan,The Byrds,Blood Sweat and Tears,Sly and the Family Stone,Boz Scaggs,Boston,ELO,Cheap Trick,Earth Wind and Fire,J D Souther,Journey,Toto and Marvin Gaye.
I will post some comments after I have had a good chance to listen to them in a quiet house.
SandyK

[tg]

Being aware of this topic for some time and being a geek and finding an exceedingly good price on one of these toys, I had to give it a try didn't I?
Had a ripped CD in wav form on my HDD and burned a copy (on a common cheapo CDR - Imation labelled but CMC manufactured) before taking it when I went to visit a friend who owns a copy of the original.
I asked him to pull out the original and we had a listen to it, then I offered him the copy and said "give this a spin" - I did not tell him what the procedure was, I wanted to see what he thought without any preconceptions. He quite quickly pronounced it better and wanted to know what I had done.
The disc in question was a B&O demo disc.

I had previously made copies of a demo disc I commonly use, on a Yamaha F1E CDRW and the GGW H20L (both fitted in the same machine) on identical blanks and also on the GGW on a Kodak Gold Archival CDR.
Interesting to note that the Blu Ray writer would only allow higher speeds on the cheaper media (24X, 32X, 44X) but allowed slower speeds on the Gold CDR.
This precluded me burning the two in parallel (which Nero 6 allows) due to inability to match speeds between the drives.
Listening to the first pair in comparison to each other seemed akin to hearing a transport upgrade (which effectively it is) and was most instructive, the differences with the Gold CD were not nearly as noticeable (from the standard CDR burned on the Blu Ray writer) and I would not be sure worth the extra expense of the media.
One might extrapolate the improvement might also extend to DVD-A - an experiment for another day perhaps.
Be interested to learn more of the pair you have just acquired Alex.

[Deleted]

Tony
I agree that when using the BluRay writer, there will be less point in going to much more than the cheaper TDK Gold bulk packs, or other decent quality brand name CD-Rs for anything but special reference or archival copies.
The unusual writing habits you discovered with different types of media are exactly as I found them. More interesting to me is when using E.A.C. with the LG BluRay writer, extraction is as slow as 1.3 times, as is the copying phase.
I have only had a limited chance to listen to the BluRay written disc on several tracks so far, and not on the companion standard pressing of the same tracks. (Black label) I have found so far, where the original recording was well made, it sounds bloody fantastic ! Perhaps the best answer is to hear for yourself the difference with E.A.C. sourced files using the BluRay writer for extraction, then a copy made on to a good quality CD-R. using the BluRay writer for burning. This should be extremely close to the original Blu-Spec CD. Incidentally, after briefly hearing these tracks, I have today ordered the Jazz version of the BLu-Spec CD.
Alex
P.S.
If just taking a CD recorded via a glass master burned with red laser , can sound better than the original CD after being extracted and burned using a Blue laser, it shouldn't be too hard to imagine,how much better it could sound if the original glass master had been burned with a Blue laser.
Alex

[Deleted]

Alex
I know you use EAC but do you use it to produce totally uncompressed wav files? I can't seem to see an option for this and online tutorials mostly are about flac or mp3. Do you use accuraterip? I searched my CDs and haven't found even 1 that gets recognised as suitable for setup.

I have the LG writer ready to install and want to re-rip my CDs after that.

Thanks, regards, Syd

[Deleted]

Mar 10, 2009 17:00:03 GMT @juke said:

Alex
I know you use EAC but do you use it to produce totally uncompressed wav files? I can't seem to see an option for this and online tutorials mostly are about flac or mp3. Do you use accuraterip? I searched my CDs and haven't found even 1 that gets recognised as suitable for setup.

I have the LG writer ready to install and want to re-rip my CDs after that.

Thanks, regards, Syd

Syd
I am using V0.99 prebeta 4 from 23 January 2008. Just check that you have the latest version.
If you have more than one burner, their server can check them for you and tell you which is the best to use.

Click on "Action" then "Test and Copy selected tracks"
Select "Uncompressed..F6"

Alex

P.S. The LG BluRay is painfully slow ripping the tracks, but you get a very accurate result.
Check your HDD light to see if the writer is generating activity while idle. I'ts apparently not harmful,although can be annoying.

[Deleted]

Alex, thanks once again. I missed that tab because it was all greyed out. (Had no CD in!)

I'm testing using my current LG non writing BD drive, new one goes in Friday. I'm only getting 1.2x, is that right?

It'll be a long process, worthwhile though. juke

[Deleted]

Mar 10, 2009 23:10:00 GMT @juke said:

Alex, thanks once again. I missed that tab because it was all greyed out. (Had no CD in!)

I'm testing using my current LG non writing BD drive, new one goes in Friday. I'm only getting 1.2x, is that right?

It'll be a long process, worthwhile though. juke

juke
I don't know why, but mine gives around 1.3 times most of the time,whereas ordinary drives are MUCH faster. At least you know your results will be as good as you could get due to the tight focussing of a blue laser beam.

Alex

P.S. With the demo Blu-spec CD, some of the tracks are so good, that if I didn't know what I was listening to, and if somebody told me it was a SACD or DVD-A, I would believe them.
e.g. Track 17 "Sexual Healing-Marvin Gaye" (Doesn't sound like a heterosexual's name, does it ? )
Of course, with very recent recordings it may be a different story.

[Deleted]

Alex
At least I know its the normal speed if its happening with you too. I'm looking forward to the demo disc. How did you get on with the Japanese disc? Syd

[Deleted]

Syd
See my reply 39 (above yours) This was the Japanese disc that I was referring to.
Alex

[Deleted]

Alex
Oops! I thought that there was a demo disc in the LG box as well - obviously time to call it a night<G>

I have the Japanese disc coming, should have noticed the track /artist is on it.

juke

[pagan]

Alex
Could you compare the size of the files?
One copied EAC bit perfect of the BluRay, and one copied EAC bit perfect of the DVD/CD Rom.
Preferably 16/44k1
Same track or album used.
Same uncompressed wav file.

If the BluRay has more detail in sound, the amount of data it's extracting may be more?
or maybe there is less error correcting
or the error correction has different math equation.

allan

[jeffc]

Missed the activity here,

The software that comes with the LG BR burner allows burns at 4 X speed with whatever media I've tested, std TDK Gold CD-Rs, Laser/Prodisk black CD-Rs and the Kodak 24K Gold archival CD-Rs. Surely any slower can't make much difference. ;D

However, slower still might be better as I'm completely bamboozled as to just how the shorter wavelength Blue laser actually burns a pit the width of the longer wavelength Red laser? Does it repeat the burn process several times moving laterally fractionally each time, zig zag from side to side . Anyone done homework?

FWIIW, I put my burner in an external USB/SATA capable enclosure and used 3 soft feet, this to isolate it from vibrations which it does just dandy. At 4 x writing speed, it really doesn't make any noise, need to place my ear on the thing to hear anything at all, and absolutely no noticeable vibration, just crusin'.

Regarding media, used with the black CD-Rs it is a match made in heaven, and a much cheaper alternative to the Kodak 24K Gold CD-Rs. Just need to find some more of these locally. Ridiculously cheap prices found at online shops in the UK, but have yet to find anywhere that will ship to Oz.

cheers.. jeffc

PS. Forgot, and to be extra nerdy I also placed a sheet of Grip Mat (that anti-slip mat for placemats etc that I remember folk trying as turntable mats) between the underside of the writer and the case for extra damping. The writer being fixed using bottom mounted screws.

[Will]

Mar 11, 2009 10:20:58 GMT jeffc said:

Ridiculously cheap prices found at online shops in the UK, but have yet to find anywhere that will ship to Oz.

cheers.. jeffc

Well you know what you need to do there then, dont you

It just has to make sense to you guys with the additional cost of onwards shipping.

If a few of you aussie types want these, I'm happy to be the UK re-distribution centre.

[XTRProf]

Hey Alex,

What are the Blu specs Jap CD titles you are refering to? I'm interested in any jazz vocal and jazz stuffs. Where did you buy them from in Japan? Thanks.

[Deleted]

Mar 11, 2009 10:16:32 GMT pagan said:

Alex
Could you compare the size of the files?
One copied EAC bit perfect of the BluRay, and one copied EAC bit perfect of the DVD/CD Rom.
Preferably 16/44k1
Same track or album used.
Same uncompressed wav file.

If the BluRay has more detail in sound, the amount of data it's extracting may be more?
or maybe there is less error correcting
or the error correction has different math equation.

allan

Allan
Sorry to disappoint you, but size is identical .
e.g. Track1 =65,566,748 bytes on both versions.
Alex

[XTRProf]

While having a look at cdjapan, i bump into HQCD here:


www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=TOCJ-90010



Wow, so many new ways of making CDs to sound better. I'm really impressed with K2HD, XRCD & LPCD. Let's hope the Bluspec CDs are even better.

[Deleted]

Mar 11, 2009 10:43:34 GMT XTRProf said:

Hey Alex,

What are the Blu specs Jap CD titles you are refering to? I'm interested in any jazz vocal and jazz stuffs. Where did you buy them from in Japan? Thanks.

XTRProf
The link is below. They also have a Jazz sampler, which I ordered today. Also, there are complete CDs from the artists on the samplers, but they are more expensive.
The Blu-spec CDs should be better because their masters are more accurately burned.
SandyK


www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=SICP-20048#