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Post by dalethorn on Jun 9, 2012 5:06:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 9:01:06 GMT
The most diffeicult areas for me and the M50 are:
a) The heavy coiled cable - I hate those cables. They need changing - way too heavy for the headphone. I'm too frightened to do it myself!!! (I use them at work) b) The lift in the bass - can be a bit too much; especially if it's supposed to be a monitor. c) The padding could be a bit nicer - a tad softer like K550 or the Senn noise cancelling phones. They're thin type pleather but really soft so you get an excellent seal. The M50 is a bit like a hard pillow although it does seal
I find this headphone the odd one out in the range actually since the other Audio Technicas tend to be light sounding and this one is positively weighty.
This description of it basically is how I find it; although the FR is close to the ideal in the bass region, the treble is slightly lower and I find that the treble is slightly 'shooshy' in comparison to some other headphones and the graph does show a fairly rapid drop off in the top. Good for long term listening (like Beyer DT150) and quite a flattering headphone to listen to yourself on!!
Is the white version just cosmetic?
Basically, if the padding was softer and the cable straight and less weighty, I'd feel a lot happier.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jun 9, 2012 10:58:46 GMT
Any of you compared the ATH-M50 with the Creative Aurvana Live?
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funk1969
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Post by funk1969 on Jun 9, 2012 11:14:49 GMT
Not that I know of. I once auditioned one and it reminded me of less refined AKG Sextett; I had the Philips N6330. The M50 is a nice headphone but I wasn't convinced by its midrange and my K181 just sounded much clearer.
That was a year ago with a stock M50 in black. Isolation with the M50 is lacking i.m.o.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 11:18:29 GMT
Yes - that's the pads for you. They's ok but if they were softer and gave a bit more, they'd seal a bit better. Once your ears start to get warm and sweaty, they seal a bit better.
I tried the Creatives once Miguel. I seem to remember they were quite bassy and were hot on the ears. Could be a problem in Miami!!
I wonder if you tried or considered the Sony 7506 or V6? They are more top led but do back a low punch as well. (On an amp)
You'd love the K550 sound, I'm sure.
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funk1969
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Post by funk1969 on Jun 9, 2012 11:21:15 GMT
DT1350, amazing isolation and sound quality. The last dynamic I can think of ever needing unless V-Moda is up to an amazing feat with an improved M80...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 11:35:06 GMT
DT1350, amazing isolation and sound quality. The last dynamic I can think of ever needing unless V-Moda is up to an amazing feat with an improved M80... I am SO tempted by the DT1350. Especially after what Frans has written about them. I'd like a price drop though!! I was lucky enough to get a K550 for nothing and it is top notch and 32 ohms as well. I must try the 1350 if I get the chance in a shop somewhere. Not seen one on display anywhere yet. M50 is OK but if I'm honest, I have a problem with the treble response which seems curtailed a bit. (Similar to DT150) Treble just doesn't seem clean enough on them. In comparison, the Sony V6 accentuates the top which can be wearing. I think the DT1350 is the answer for me for portable use but it's also a question of how long I could stand the pads pressing on my ears. I have problems with the HD25 because of that; even loosened!! Is the white M50 different to the black? An attempt to make it resemble the K701 toilet bowls? White seems a risky colour to me since they stand out so much in public and you feel a bit of a twit with white headphones on your head at home when you're my age!!
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Post by donunus on Jun 9, 2012 12:42:51 GMT
Any of you compared the ATH-M50 with the Creative Aurvana Live? I haven't tried the creative aurvana live but I've owned the denon d1001 which is supposedly the same except for sounding less bassy due to the difference in pads. I have also owned an m50 and I prefer the d1001 much more than those.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 13:51:38 GMT
The DT1350 can be 'bent' to give the proper pressure. It's steel handband allows some carefull bending to suit your needs. The HD25 velours pads use on them are thicker and have a larger surface so less force on the ears and good seal with relatively low pressure. You need just enough pressure to get good seal and it staying on your head. After a few hours I have to take them off (have this problem with all on-ears, except Portapro as it rests on the head) The sound takes some getting used to.
To get HiFi sound you need to EQ it so you need a DAP with a custom equalizer (Sansa Fuze has one) a five band EQ is already sufficient.
At higher listening levels and amped it doesn't need an EQ.
Sold my CAL, it just wasn't revealing enough and a tad on the boomy side even with counter measures. Never heard or owned an M50 (strangely enough).
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Post by dalethorn on Jun 9, 2012 14:29:18 GMT
The most diffeicult areas for me and the M50 are: a) The heavy coiled cable - I hate those cables. They need changing - way too heavy for the headphone. I'm too frightened to do it myself!!! (I use them at work) b) The lift in the bass - can be a bit too much; especially if it's supposed to be a monitor. c) The padding could be a bit nicer - a tad softer like K550 or the Senn noise cancelling phones. They're thin type pleather but really soft so you get an excellent seal. The M50 is a bit like a hard pillow although it does seal. I find this headphone the odd one out in the range actually since the other Audio Technicas tend to be light sounding and this one is positively weighty. This description of it basically is how I find it; although the FR is close to the ideal in the bass region, the treble is slightly lower and I find that the treble is slightly 'shooshy' in comparison to some other headphones and the graph does show a fairly rapid drop off in the top. Good for long term listening (like Beyer DT150) and quite a flattering headphone to listen to yourself on!! Is the white version just cosmetic? Basically, if the padding was softer and the cable straight and less weighty, I'd feel a lot happier. The treble is more extended than any headphone I've ever had except the Beyer DT-48 series. There is a slight emphasis in the lower treble that can add to sibilants etc. The lower bass emphasis would not be ideal for a monitor, but for home listening it's subtle and not annoying at all. The cable is a slight nuisance in some respects, yet better than a straight cable in certain respects, since it doesn't get snagged on things or run over by my office chair on rollers. As far as I know a straight cable version is available. Eventually I will try the Shure 1440 earcup foam addition to see if that cures the treble peak. Edit: There is a coloration in the midrange. The horns on the Jimmy Smith aren't as good as some of my premium headphones, and the nasality in the Boz Scaggs is slightly less natural as well. These are rare exceptions though. Most everything I have sounds about as good as with the other headphones.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 15:16:53 GMT
Yes, the colourations that can come from a closed headphone can be very annoying. I really haven't found one without something that eventually annoys me. The closest I have to what I feel is an ideal closed headphone is the AKG k550. It is truly impressive. In fact, I'm beginning to think that the DT150's that I've used for years professionally may leave the building or at least be semi-replaced. (I have to remeber that the DT150 is cheaper to buy) The 150's are amazing for loud and long listening since they just don't become aggressive. I've grown accustomed to their sound over the years and kind of turn a deaf 'un on their colourations and since they're so damned tough and cables are easily replaced etc', they make a very good workhorse. The K550 isn't that far away in terms of durability except the cable doesn't come off. I would have loved the same arrangement as the K702 but it is way more accurate sounding than a DT150. I've been looking for a really good closed headphone for some time but never really 'cracked it' but I think the K550 has it done for me. The D2000 is very very good too but it doesn't seal off external noise as well as the K550. It also has the (what I call) 'home usage' boost in the bass region but not a bad thing really. The K550 has less boost and is more like an open headphone sound than closed. The only open headphone I feel right tonally with, is the K601. I have the obligatory HD600 and 650 (For a hi fi nutter) but have always felt the sound tilted downwards in them both. Good headphones though. DT990 is a fine headphone with a slight 'U' curve but I actually like that sound and the D2000 isn't that far removed from it. At the moment, my most used headphones, I'd say are D2000, K601 and finally the K550 which I think is a gem and is now available in the UK for £180 which is a really good price for the sound. Small headphones like the DT1350 bring other problems, not only of the dreaded 'closed phone quack' type resonances but the bloated bass and the problems of keeping them on without pain!!! Because of that, I mostly use the Senn ie8 portable. It's the only iem I've heard (and used onstage) that gives a really full bodied sound and can trick you into thinking you're hearing something much bigger. Other than that I use a Klipsch X8 and X10 portable, depending on the DAP. It's that Frans - he's so damned accurate with his descriptions and when I mentioned my interest in the K550, he absolutely nailed what I would hear before it arrived here!!! So based on how accurately he seems to be able to judge a headphone sound and other peoples' tastes in sound, his review and pm's to me regarding the DT1350 really did fire up an interest - even though it's not (in my mind) a 'pro' type headphone. However, in spite of the fit problems that he has (same as mine) he really does rate its sound sig although he has been tweaking with an equaliser recently, suggesting he has found some minor tweaks are necessary. However, I do trust his judgments absolutely so I've been looking around to see if I could find one on display anywhere. (I've also got his Horizon amp here which is equally stunning!!) I've been very lucky recently since I've been doing a few publicity things for the ailing headphone world (especially more expensive headphone world) and the shops that I've been performing in (!!!) have given me a Denon D2000 for £130 and a K550 for nothing. A bit 'hammy' but I performed live so people could compare live with a headphone feed ........ Funny comments like - where's the echo gone (in the headphone). Another one which I (kind of took offence to) - 'You sound better on headphones than you do live!!!!!! Of course, I smiled and agreed thinking - what a prat! He thought my tuning was better on a headphone. then they were offered deals on headphones!!! Headphones for the deaf.
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Post by donunus on Jun 9, 2012 18:11:12 GMT
Yes, the colourations that can come from a closed headphone can be very annoying. I really haven't found one without something that eventually annoys me. DT250-250 ohm is the one to get. Hands down the best closed headphone I have ever heard and even beats out open cans. Closed can coloration on this one is minimal.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 18:18:34 GMT
Yes, the colourations that can come from a closed headphone can be very annoying. I really haven't found one without something that eventually annoys me. DT250-250 ohm is the one to get. Hands down the best closed headphone I have ever heard and even beats out open cans. Closed can coloration on this one is minimal. I had one once. I went and gave it away ...... I just thought - are you the same person on Headfi Donunus?
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Post by dalethorn on Jun 9, 2012 19:12:26 GMT
DT250-250 ohm is the one to get. Hands down the best closed headphone I have ever heard and even beats out open cans. Closed can coloration on this one is minimal. I have a prediction for you. Get a Shure 940 and 2 extra sets of Shure earpads like the 1440 pads (in case the 940's don't have the same foams). Insert the foam backings from both sets into the 940 earpads and you will get treble bliss plus you'll improve the bass.
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Post by dalethorn on Jun 9, 2012 19:15:15 GMT
I just thought - are you the same person on Headfi Donunus? Don is everywhere. That's why they call him The Don.
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Post by donunus on Jun 9, 2012 23:58:40 GMT
LOL yah I am the same donunus you see on every site
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jun 10, 2012 11:04:02 GMT
Ian, the bass was quite noticeable with the Creative Aurvana Live. After about 200 hours of burn-in it settle significantly and it is a very enjoyable can. Since I use them indoors with the Air Conditioner blasting it is not hot.
Don, thanks for your feedback.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 11:28:34 GMT
Ian, the bass was quite noticeable with the Creative Aurvana Live. After about 200 hours of burn-in it settle significantly and it is a very enjoyable can. Since I use them indoors with the Air Conditioner blasting it is not hot. Don, thanks for your feedback. I'm glad you like them, Miguel. They look drop dead gorgeous and sell for a very reasonable price in the UK as well. Of course, I forgot - air conditioning makes quite a noise in the room so closed headphones are very useful for you. I was staying in Motel 6 down at Homestead a couple of years ago and you may as well have been sleeping in a room with a car running. All night. That'll teach me not to stay in a cheap motel. It was also the time when a hurricane hit Miami and I was staying down at the Keys. Flying boats - the lot!! It kind of calmed down when the centre was close so I got in the car and made a run for Orlando through the most unbelievable rain I've ever seen in my life. On the way up, I saw so many cars in the swamps at the sides of the roads. Truly scary. However, my Spanish was useful because I did go shopping for a load of electronics in Miami and the Spanish speaking area there was brilliant with the shopkeepers haggling and doing bargains with me. Loved it a lot. I'm very lucky since I don't live near any roads here and our central heating runs from a boiler room so there is no noise whatsoever. I hear planes in the distance sometimes and helicopters 'cos some of the blasted people around hear keep them in their gardens and we have a local nutter who flies a kite thing with an engine!! The Creative headphones seem to be well regarded too so it looks like you have a good 'un. If you can - try the K550. The AKG clean type sound (kind of) with a warm bass. Those ones have really raised my regard for closed headphones. I may try those Creatives as well though ....
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jun 10, 2012 21:27:10 GMT
I love the K501 and K1000 I own, may have to give the K550 a try.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 21:31:41 GMT
I love the K501 and K1000 I own, may have to give the K550 a try. Try not to buy them ..... try them!!!!
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Post by donunus on Jun 11, 2012 1:28:53 GMT
yah, based on the highly mixed reviews online I would definitely try those before buying.
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Post by dalethorn on Jun 11, 2012 2:27:15 GMT
I re-read Headfonia's 550 review. The review is very very positive, sensational even, but when you dig into the hundreds of comments, the reality sets in. Be prepared to re-bend the headband.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2012 15:39:51 GMT
Because this review covers 2 headphones in a similar 'target' this post is present in 2 threads. Both Sony 7506 and (old used black) Audio Technica ATH-M50 are collapsible headphones intended for studio monitoring usage but are very 'opposite' in almost all area's. All headphones have seen more than enough usage to even convince the most fierce 'headphones need break-in' advocates that these headphones are representative and COMPLETLY 'played in'.
A comparison of a Sennheiser HD650, Sony 7506 and the Audio Technica ATH-M50. In order to 'set' my head to a reference and the compared headphones all have rolled off or lacking highs the HD650 was chosen as reference. The HD650 is open and the other 2 closed but that is if no importance for the SQ. WAV via Sansa Fuze into OPA-88 (tube hybrid) on low Ohmic setting because the 7506 filter was not yet prepared to deal with 120 Ohm sources.
UB40
7506 unfiltered: Fattter bass than HD650, seemingly deep. Bass seems slightly unattached. Not the warm signature of HD650. Voices separate from the music albeit a bit overly 'bright'. Cymbals lack the nice 'tizz' and sound wooshy, but are present so not dull sounding.
7506 filtered Fattter bass than HD650, seemingly deep. Bass seems slightly unattached. Signature leaning more towards HD650. The sharp edge of the voices is gone and integrate better in the music itself. Cymbals lack the nice 'tizz' and sound wooshy, but are present so not dull sounding though less bright compared to unfiltered.
M50. Darker signature (warmer) than HD650 bass is a bit muddying up the sound. Voices are less bright than HD650 which feels more natural. Softer highs and more extended than 7506. No sparkly highs but because of this can turn it up louder. Firm grip on the head.
Etta James:
HD650. Voices stand out, very forward yet not harsh. Bass is present but not thumping. Highs are as present as they can be in a HD650 and feels slightly rolled off but not lacking.
7506 unfiltered: Not very musical (hifi). Voices are shouty. hihat unnatural and dry. Lacks highs extension considerable. Instruments are very well separated. Bass has good slam and feels very present but not overly 'fat', perhaps a bit disconnected. Reminiscent of the Superlux HD661 although the Superlux pairs this with a more musical representation.
7506 filtered: More musical than witout filter yet still bordering on shouty. hihat still not realistic and there is just an udefined 'shhhh' sound, no 'tizzes' e.t.c.. Lacks highs extension considerable. Instruments separate very well. Bass has good slam and feels very present not overly 'fat'
M50. Warm sound, the reasonable 'cold' recording suddenly is full bodied. Voice doesn't jump out yet is forward albeit a bit 'closed in'. Music is more a whole, threw on a pile sortoff. Hihat is better but also lacks the 'tizz' which I know is in the recording (DT1350 says so) Bass is very fat and thumping.
Eagles (live) HD650: Well balanced sound. Voices integrated in the sound with normal 'separation'.
7506 unfiltered: Not very musically engaging. cymbals do not crash properly, not realistic, and there is just a soft 'shhhh' sound without differentiation between different cymbals. Attack on drums stands out. quite obvious lack of highs extension. Instruments separate extremely well. Voices are quite (overly) bright and 'forward' leaning to thin.
7506 filtered: Not very musically engaging. cymbals do not crash properly not realistic and there is just a soft 'shhhh' sound in it. quite obvious lack of highs extension . Instruments separate extremely well. Voices are still on the bright and forward side but better than without filter. Attack on drum realistic and clear.
M50: a bit muffled sounding. cymbals sound a bit better than 7506, softer in character yet quite obvious a lack of highs extension. Voices do not jump out and are deeper in the music than with the HD650. Separation of instruments far below the HD650 and completely the opposite of 7506.
Conclusion: With various types of music a few things become very obvious:
M50: Very warm signature, sometimes a bit muddy with a prominent bass and rolled off in the highs but pleasant 'soft sounding' highs. Nothing stands out really in the music but the lack of extension and somewhat muffled sound on occasion makes it not a very good hifi phone. You can listen to this for longer periods at higher SPL. Instrument separation is NOT one of it's strong points. Firm grip on the head and a bit warm on the ears. Good attenuation of outside noises and feels sturdy.
Could be used as a hifi phone, but IMO there are better suited headphones for that in this price range. A bit dark but can understand people using this as a hifi phone. Especially for very bright recordings that 'mellow out' considerable and become more enjoyable.
Sony 7506: Mechanically not feeling as sturdy as the ATH-M50 and sometimes collapses when picking them up so you have to finnick twith the ear pieces to get it on your head. The ATH-M50 has a similar collapsible construction but doesn't have this issue (wouldn't call it a problem) Unfiltered it is overly bright and at the same time lacks highs extension in a big way. Bass is (perhaps slightly more than) present and punchy. With a powerfull amp you can 'feel' the bass. Separation is excellent, perhaps sort-of exaggerated even. Yet not nearly as good as an (EQ'ed) DT1350. Completely un-suited to quitely enjoy hifi sound as the cymbals/hihats are all sounding similar and swooshy. Attack of drums is exaggerated but not annoyingly. Voices sound very thin/sharp/shrill but stand out. Not very musical or engaging.
Filtered the overly bright signature is better yet the separation is not affected. The rest of the character is the same.
IMO this is NOT very suited as a hifi phone but well suited to 'disect' recordings. In a studio everyone involved in a recording can hear themselves very clear so excellent monitors.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2012 16:38:27 GMT
I don't think the M50 goes much further up into HF than the Sony, Frans and yet the presentations give you a kind of opposite feeling.
ie the M50 sounds not extended with not enough top and the 7506 sounds as though there's too much.
I sometimes find eq'ing a little bass out on the M50 can make it 'seem' more extended but tbh, I don't think it's going much beyond 14,000 or so. Levels drop pretty quickly up there.
Good for monitoring your playing via a headphone since it's flattering like the DT150. Sony more for recording defects I think.
Once again, I think 120 ohms is slightly better for the 7506. imo, the M50 has been a little overblown by hi fi guys. Personally, I find it a bit below par for home and for serious work. It's ok for me and that's about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2012 18:13:00 GMT
The 7506 is indeed drastically cut-off above 12kHz or so. The lack of top-end is masked by the rather high peak centered at around 5kHz. Once this is filtered out teh shrillness disappears for the biggest part but the topend is thus less 'masked' and even more obvious. The M50 rolls of gently and goes a little bit further in frequency range but certainly is far from 'extended'. Both are designed NOT to have a lot of 'distracting' top-end. DJ headphones also have this 'feature' and are more designed for 'beat counting' and wearing them around the neck at high output levels (several watts) and still be heard.
The 'muddyness' and lack of top extension kill it for me as a hifi phone. The fact that it doesn't disect like the Sony sort-off kills the M50 as a monitor as well.
It's strong point IMO (relatively strong) is that music that sounds quite 'cold' and even shrill on hifi phones is more palpable. a reason to keep it as it is very forgiving on these kind of recordings.
The 7506 is up for auditioning if people are interested. I will try to finish the filter for it, even though it doesn't make it a good hifi phone it shaves a bit of the edge while staying 'analytical'
I tried them both on 120 Ohm and the M50 doesn't react as much as the 7506 does. The 7506 loses a tiny bit of it's shrillness but not much. the M50 becomes even more mellow... I don't think it needs to be even more mellow. Will try some EQ-ing later on. The top end +6 and lower the lot below 200Hz 9 afew dB) may be a good start. Cannot be done passively though ... alas
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