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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 15:33:41 GMT
Well all the attempts I made to apply more, less, different or differently tuned usage of the sound from the back of the driver all lead to no improvements, alterations in sound but not for the better overall. The bass remains kind of prominent and the top end remains rolled off. It appears as it isn't a question of merely tuning the housing different and seems driver related. Perhaps the membrane is slightly changed.
Last thing I did (as I often fool around with pads as they can make a difference) was mount the 7506 pads on the M50 and the M50 pads on the 7506.
Ian, in case you are in for an experiment that is very easy to do would you be so kind to mount the V6 pads on the M50 and post or PM your findings ? I do not know if the 7506 and V6 pads are the same (thin pleather, the type that starts to flake quickly) perhaps this is relevant.
The 7506 didn't change much nor improved with the M50 pads. The pads are interchangeable and the same size.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 19:34:14 GMT
It doesn't help them at all Frans. Heavy bass and curtailed top prevail but also a bit more 'congested' sounding. Possibly a bit more heft in the bass.
I think the new version must be quite a different headphone or mine are knackered? Do the membranes appear damaged? Nothing massively loud has gone through those that you have.
Personally, I don't particularly care for them but I would like to try that white version if they offer a bit more up top, but I'm not certain they do.
They did arrive in one piece didn't they?
If anything Frans, I'd have thought getting the drivers away from the lugs would help. What there is in the treble should remain but possibly the ramped bass might recede? Or a case of give up on them?
The 7506 is useful as a 'spot the mistakes' headphone, but to be honest, the K550 gives a more pleasant top with a much more integrated bass as well. Where the bass on the 7506 slams down there kind of detached from the rest of the spectrum, the K550 integrates well from top to bottom with this rather nice 'rubber band' type of bass. It's the kind of sound similar to when you change to new strings on a bass guitar and you get more of a 'twang' from the bass notes rather than a 'thud' of an old string.
IMO, there are others ahead of the old version and for another £50, I'f take a K550 anytime.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 21:55:44 GMT
The M50's were and still are O.K. They simply seem to be as they are. I've run them with a little EQ in the top (16-20kHz +2dB) and EQ'ed the bass (below 300hz) a bit down and they become quite good. Not outstanding or remarkable like some HP's but everything seems O.K. and the listen is actually quite pleasant/correct and relaxing.
I could live with it in that case if it were my only headphone. A similar rolled off in the top end with deep bass that it reminds me off is the HD280 which is quite similar in price, clamping force and isolation as well. But that one I find more usable without heroic actions though and is more forward sounding in the voices, better for 'disecting' music. The lack of highs extension made me get rid of it again (sold it to a bass player, she was chuffed with it).
I think the newer versions (black, silver and white) offer the same highs (but EQ-able so not a big problem) but are better on the lows and possibly a tad more forward in the mids. I suspect they changed something rather small in the driver (probably the compliance, stiffness in the membranes suspention) but could be completely wrong as well.
The 7506 pads gave me the impression the mids were coming out slightly more, but in some recordings it became a bit less natural. Because the mids (and uppermids) appeared slightly louder the bass was relatively a tad lower. The 7506 pads get the drivers slightly closer to the ear as they are a fraction flatter. top-end stayed the same.
Comparing is difficult as it takes time to change the pads. Comparing 2 M-50's with different pads next to each other (presonus ?) will help elimanate my wish for it to sound better after a change and is why I asked (and other ears as well). It fooled me a few times when tinkering with the drivers and their damping getting the impression things improved but when compared to the HD650 directly the perceived improvements suddenly weren't there anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 23:16:53 GMT
but to be honest, the K550 gives a more pleasant top with a much more integrated bass as well. Where the bass on the 7506 slams down there kind of detached from the rest of the spectrum, the K550 integrates well from top to bottom with this rather nice 'rubber band' type of bass. It's the kind of sound similar to when you change to new strings on a bass guitar and you get more of a 'twang' from the bass notes rather than a 'thud' of an old string. IMO, there are others ahead of the old version and for another £50, I'f take a K550 anytime. Naughty boy! I'm supposed to be resisting these
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 4:43:05 GMT
For me, it was the upper bass that seemed to congest the sound but the basic M50 sound is pretty well there with the top remaining the same so it just seemed thicker.
Be careful with the K550, Chris. I can imagine some not liking them and others with sealing issues. I think that could be why reviews are all over the place with them.
For me, they are like a K601 with bass. Still quite a lively top end but a more present bass. It seems to have an 'open headphone' type sound with the lively(ish) top and yet the bass of a closed headphone. It's more open sounding than the Denon D2000. Not quite as smooth as the D2000 right up top and I can see some people deciding that they are 'grainy' sounding by comparison.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 11:17:27 GMT
Dale,
Heard the newer M50 version. Aside from the looks they have little in common. Completely different sound, way more realistic. Comfort way up (softer pads, less clampingforce) No flabby overpowering bass and no rolled-off highs, also mids are 'neutral' instead of quite warm/tad recessed. I get your sonic description now .... We were both actually listening to completely different headphones, and not just marginally different.
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 27, 2012 13:53:44 GMT
Dale, Heard the newer M50 version. Aside from the looks they have little in common. Completely different sound, way more realistic. Comfort way up (softer pads, less clampingforce). No flabby overpowering bass and no rolled-off highs, also mids are 'neutral' instead of quite warm/tad recessed. I get your sonic description now .... We were both actually listening to completely different headphones, and not just marginally different. This is really great to hear. Score a big win for Audio-Technica. Now if Sennheiser, Beyer, Philips to name 3 manufacturers, would get to work on upgrading their headphones, that would be spectacular. And to think my M50 was around $150 USD, a far better deal than a couple other things I bought this year. And the bass signature of my M50 is the most unusual of any I've had - not lean, not humped up in the upper bass, good impact in the lowest bass. Nothing like it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 7:22:37 GMT
Dale, Heard the newer M50 version. Aside from the looks they have little in common. Completely different sound, way more realistic. Comfort way up (softer pads, less clampingforce) No flabby overpowering bass and no rolled-off highs, also mids are 'neutral' instead of quite warm/tad recessed. I get your sonic description now .... We were both actually listening to completely different headphones, and not just marginally different. How strange. No mention of different sig from AT. It's also not been spotted on other forums. I wonder whether my M50's have been played to death, Frans? Damaged through loud volume or ugly music? ;D They get some lively uncompressed stuff shoved through them sometimes!! It makes you wonder about the readings taken and then printed as graphs as well. They must be missing something! I must admit that I was quite puzzled when you mentioned sibilance' Dale. My old versions are pretty dull up top. Blast - another one to try! ;-)
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 28, 2012 10:19:11 GMT
The M50 treble is tricky. The new white one has a shy treble all right and it's marginally sibilant. But for the price that's a minor issue. If the treble were any less prominent or the upper bass moreso, it wouldn't work. As it is it seems to play well with everything.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 18:03:05 GMT
I wonder whether my M50's have been played to death, Frans? Damaged through loud volume or ugly music? ;D They get some lively uncompressed stuff shoved through them sometimes!! It must be the music Ian... ;D I heard an old one side by side with someone else's older version. That one sounded the same as yours b.t.w. so it was still O.K. The differences are more than noteworthy eventhough they may look the same (not in this case as it was the SE silver version) but feel and sound like completly different headphones. Not gonna buy one though. It makes you wonder about the readings taken and then printed as graphs as well. They must be missing something! The old and new one actually measure quite different as well: new: www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHM50B2012.pdfold: www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHM50.pdf Blast - another one to try! ;-) Yep !
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 19:32:31 GMT
Frans, so the 2012 version the white one then?
I just had a look on Amazon UK and it just isn't made clear which one you're buying.
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 29, 2012 1:14:20 GMT
I kinda think there are new M50's that are not white, maybe even the black version, dunno. But I recall people asking about the cable choices and that throws a spanner into the mix.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2012 19:37:10 GMT
Sorry Dale. I missed your post 'cos you're up when I'm in bed!!
Yes, I think AT are kind of confusing people here. I really wondered how you were hearing something so different to me; especially after I read your description of the DT1350, which is basically what I'm getting.
Frans described the one I sent him exactly how I hear them and then you had such a different opinion. It was a bit strange.
However, AT have been a bit quiet about it and what they've done, so now, what with the anniversary edition, the ordinary M50, M50s/le, and M50s, all selling about the same price, there just ain't much to go on. Good way of getting rid of your old stock I guess.
My guess:
M50 standard headphone. M50s standard headphone with straight cable However M50s/le - straight cable, limited edition.
The thing is, does limited edition just mean a pretty headphone, or an altered one.
It could be that all new ones are different but how can you be sure you're getting a new one?
Dale, your description of sibilance sounds like it rolls down up top with some peak really high up in order to give the 'warm sound' with that kick high up I guess.
Funny thing, your description did remind me of the at ad700 sound sig. That sounds smooth and perhaps rolled away quite gently, yet on speech, there is a definite accent on T's and S's when you hear speech so I guess that has a similar sibilance to the M50.
Do you know what number your white version is?
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 29, 2012 23:20:11 GMT
I might find a serial number by taking the pads off, dunno. Maybe when I get home. I have the idea that the white ones are new for 2012, and coiled cable only. The sibilance in and of itself isn't bad, but it sticks out because the treble in general, the "presence" region as I call it, is recessed some.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2012 7:40:02 GMT
Sorry, Dale. I meant model number.
I had a look on Headfi and no-one has talked about differences between old and new except cosmetics. That's why I think it's a bit underhand since I presumed that I was listening to the same headphone as you basically but it seems some quiet changes have been made so you don't really know which one you're buying, unless AT have taken old ones back which is doubtful!!
I guess all of the white ones are new versions and you can't be sure with the black!!
It would have been useful if AT had called them M50 2012. At least then, we'd know what we were buying.
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 30, 2012 8:10:04 GMT
The cups have ATH M50 on them. That's it.
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