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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 12:44:25 GMT
Just for the hell of it I tried the above even though I had no problems with noise or drop outs before. My only possible mistake was that the lead ended up being longer. However, there is zero sonic difference between the new and the old. Yertiz; You could try thin coax instead..... Yes I could and to my mind it should be better. I just don't have any in my bag-o-tricks
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 23:37:34 GMT
You could try thin coax instead..... Yes I could and to my mind it should be better. I just don't have any in my bag-o-tricks Hi Chris i use U-FL cables with the WAVEIO which can be had from Ebay pretty cheaply. then if you do not fancy fitting the UFL socket (small) then you could just use the cable UN terminated. or i have some Mil spec low capacitance really thin silver solid core cable. twisted twin with overall braid which I've not tried out yet but i plan to at some point soon. it may work well but it's pretty fragile stuff (cotton jacket) i may just have enough for 2 ATM i have Mundorf silver gold but UN twisted and single ground return. i have no problems with that arrangement but it would be nice to try just to hear if I'm missing something. I use very short cables (1 1/2 cm) so maybe that helps. i think that i may have read somewhere that 10cm is about as long as practical but i may be wrong on that. another one where size matters? take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2012 16:09:46 GMT
More tinkering going on... Spurred on by Javiers reminder of the differences between decoupling etc. of the 9022 & 9023 chips. Soooo, number two PK board, recently brought back to life, has been modded. Pin 15 has had its resistor increased to 100k with 2u2 to earth Pin 6 has had its cap increased to 10uf and a parallel resistor of 130k added These have been quick and dirty mods using anything to hand, which entailed using full size, through hole components where the board was designed for SMDs It ain't pretty but it does work! I've not had much time with it but it's at the very least another flavour. On another note, I previously posted on my thoughts of using low nf value caps on the outputs. My conclusions there have been overturned somewhat; I had been using Wima MKPs but just found some brandx MKTs so thought I'd try. I only had 2n2 but have to say they are for more beneficial on the top HFs than the MKPs of any value tried. Giving a relief from the sharpness without losing any detail or presence. Result!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2012 18:08:41 GMT
woah mate! that is some busy looking PK. Amazing how you managed to fit the through hole resistor and cap in such a tiny space. Still have to do that on mine, so far a much more modest mod here: Nichicon Muse ES 10uF 50V: 120K resistor in parallel with the above The only thing you have left to try is giving your PK a little more juice, I'm sure you'll be pleased
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2012 18:27:20 GMT
Hi Javier/Chris you guys have been busy Chris i remember Leo saying that the type and quality of those caps on the OP filter made a big difference to the SQ. The ones i have are good quality polyprop and do as you say take the top end edge off a little. i was quite surprised that you noticed such a large difference with the caps that you tried before. i just found the ones i used pretty subtle TBH adding just a dash of top end sugar. ''I've not had much time with it but it's at the very least another flavour.'' keep us posted on that once you've had time to listen. also one of those funky Crickets that you posted on the HQ DAC thread may be worth trying. just to hear if it makes a difference. all good stuff guys take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 15:53:39 GMT
Quite by chance I made an interesting discovery yesterday:
The "modest" ES9023 can actually play ultra high resolution 352.8 and 384KHz even it is spec'ed at only 24/192. I tested in sync mode though there is no reason it shouldn't work in async too, anyone up for testing?
For testing I used JRiver and Foobar with SOX plugin upsampling to generate those sample rates and also a DXD (=PCM 24/352.8 not DSD) DL from 2L.no. It worked both in WASAPI and Kernel Streaming output modes.
Musiland discovered something similar when they were designing their 03US DAC with TI's PCM1798, its data sheet said max was 24/192 but they found it could in fact do 32/384 just fine at a lower price than the PCM1795.
There is a noise problem with 352.8 sample rate though. Very much like it happened with 1.54 and 1.55 Amanero's firmwares there is a lot of static like noise along with music. I've already warned Domenico and asked him to check the firmware to see if, as I suspect, it could be the cause but maybe is a limitation of the Sabre. All in all, not bad for a 1€ chip.
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Post by themystical on Nov 30, 2012 20:47:42 GMT
Quite by chance I made an interesting discovery yesterday: The "modest" ES9023 can actually play ultra high resolution 352.8 and 384KHz even it is spec'ed at only 24/192. I tested in sync mode though there is no reason it shouldn't work in async too, anyone up for testing? There is a noise problem with 352.8 sample rate though. Javier, I am not surprised as the DAC I have is the even older ES9008 24 bit and that plays 352k quite happily and without static on the Amanero. Not tried 384k yet as could not find any freebie test files but from what you say, I need to use a SOX upsampler in Foobar? I need to investigate that.....point me in the right direction please. Avinash
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 21:59:44 GMT
Javier, I am not surprised as the DAC I have is the even older ES9008 24 bit and that plays 352k quite happily and without static on the Amanero. Not tried 384k yet as could not find any freebie test files but from what you say, I need to use a SOX upsampler in Foobar? I need to investigate that.....point me in the right direction please. Avinash It seems the noise is specific to my system, another RG memeber ;)has kindly done some further testing on his two PKs (one in sync the other in async mode) and found no noise problems at any sample rate so it is probably down to the combination of latest firmware and driver I'm using (1.56 for both). The ES9008 was the previous ESS top of the range chip so, while still surprising, IMO in the entry level ES9023's case it is far more so though I'm sure the 9008 will take way more advantage of this than the 9023 will. For testing purposes you can use the built in Foobar upsampler. Go to preferences->playback->DSP manager and on the right colum double click"Resampler (PPSH)" so it moves to the left. Then select it and click on the "configure selected" button. In the "target sample rate" do not select any value from the list, type in the desired value, ie 384000, instead. click OK, OK again and there you go. I'd recommend you use a 48, 96 or 192KHz file.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 23:25:03 GMT
Shaun, Spill the beans then, which ones are you using I've already tried that and the cricket cannot deliver enough power to drive the 9023 but is good for the oscillator when in ASYNC. I'm running my 9023 straight off a 3v3 JLH ( Yes, Sr J, I'll will get around to 3v6 ). I'd need something with more current available to pop in there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 23:29:58 GMT
Hi Chris You need a LM317T ahead of the JLH so you can tweak it NO MORE than 3.6V. No doubt you have already thought of that though. Kind Regards Alex.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 23:37:44 GMT
Alex,
Er, no, you'll need to enlighten me there. How do you incoporate an adjustable reg ahead of the JLH to do that?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 23:51:34 GMT
I'm using one of Will's regs with a LT1086 to generate the 3.6V from a 6V traffo (followed by a JLH board).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 23:59:18 GMT
Alex, Er, no, you'll need to enlighten me there. How do you incoporate an adjustable reg ahead of the JLH to do that? Hi Chris Are you presently using a LM2940T 3.3 to supply your JLH ? As a LM317T in basis form only needs a handful of components, (In, Out and bypass caps, and 2 resistors for voltage setting) you should be able to knock one up on a piece of veroboard or similar and connect the JLH to the output of the 317T. Check out the SC DAC PSU for ideas Regards Alex P.S. See Javier's reply for a neater way to do this.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 0:10:09 GMT
I'm running a LT1086 reg off a 6v tranny, producing 3v3 into the JLH and into the 9023. This can be turned up to 3v6 without problem.
As I can't use the cricket, I was thinking if there was an inexpensive Cricket-like device that can run off either that or a 15vac secondary->reg->JLH->?
I think things like Fleas need more juice?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 0:13:36 GMT
Shaun, Spill the beans then, which ones are you using I've already tried that and the cricket cannot deliver enough power to drive the 9023 but is good for the oscillator when in ASYNC. I'm running my 9023 straight off a 3v3 JLH ( Yes, Sr J, I'll will get around to 3v6 ). I'd need something with more current available to pop in there. Hi Chris I'm using Wima FKP2 polyprops which seem to work pretty well in that spot. they are recommended by Patric (same guy that recommends the 2U2 ceramics) for the up and coming 9023 OP buffer. the effect is much more subtle that the one that you described previously with your MKP. The MKT is polyester (i think) so you may still have some more improvement to come from a nice polyprop. ''I'm using one of Will's regs with a LT1086 to generate the 3.6V from a 6V traffo (followed by a JLH board).'' good point Javier LT1086 is a low drop out reg which leaves a little more to play with on the adjustment side of things. from what I've read the increase to 3.6V more about curing clipping on the negative side of the OP signal caused by the charge pump (a small amount of distortion). not really to boost the OP by a few MV even though that is useful. I'm not much of an expert and my explanation may be less than lucid so others please correct me if I've got it wrong. hear to learn they have pulled the same trick on Leo's marmite DAC PCM5102 and it also to my ears sounds a little better @3v6. most people that I've read can hear a small difference between 3V3 and 3V6 so there must be something in it. Myself I've tried both and to my ears 3V6 sounds a little better but not loads. give both a try and see which you like take care
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 0:22:29 GMT
Shaun, have you tried changing C8 to 10uF and adding the resistor in parallel (<=130 Ohm for 3.6V and <=220 for 3.3V)? C8 is at pin6 ("VReg" = Ananlogue Reference Output) Maybe this helps the 9023 when powered with 3.6V sound better?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 0:45:51 GMT
Hi Javier I’m using a 2U2 ceramic SMD soldered straight onto the 9023 pins in that position. I did have a 10UF oscon there before which sounded good but IMHO the little ceramics sound a bit better. I’ll not bore you with my shoddy work but here is Jeff’s sexy SMD work on those caps. i337.photobucket.com/albums/n390/jeffc_pics/IMG_0535-crop.jpgNice work Jeff crazzzzy i still get eye ache thinking about it and wonder how i managed. The resistor I’ve not tried but may try at some point. take care
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 1:39:29 GMT
Hi Shaun An LM317T and 1N5819 Schottky diodes for the rectifiers should give you adequate headroom with a 6V toroidal. Kind Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 9:27:02 GMT
I don't quite understand the reason for placing a cap between pin 4 ("DIF"= Input to select Left Justified or I2S data) and pin 5 (AVCC) nor between pins 4 and 6. I thought the idea of decoupling meant going to ground but pin 4 is a signaling input pin from the same group as BCLK, LRCLK and DATA.
The caps on pins 9-10 and 11-12 are a great idea for some one with the required skills.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2012 0:45:41 GMT
Hi Alan I'm waiting on one of these from a DIYAUDIO GB. www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/216669-joachim-gerhard-filter-buffer-es9022.html. most of the info is linked in the first post. it's a buffer using ''8 Idss matched JFETs (4x BF862, 4x MMBFJ310)''. with a gentle HF filter designed specifically for the 9022/3. it requires a =/- 9 to15v supply for which batteries are recommended but I'm going to try Salas first. I've not heard it yet but fingers crossed on the SQ. blow by blow well not to much to report except for removing R17 to hook the new clock into the DAC via it's solder pad. that way i can go back to the original clock if i don't like the change. I'll take a photo and post where i am so far. the clock board looks pretty much like the last and any number of PSU can be used. just plug and play and with the new board I'm working on should be good for larger TCXO units also. I'll post a photo of the work so far. take care
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Post by pagan on Dec 16, 2012 2:41:17 GMT
Hi Alan I'm waiting on one of these from a DIYAUDIO GB. www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/216669-joachim-gerhard-filter-buffer-es9022.html. most of the info is linked in the first post. it's a buffer using ''8 Idss matched JFETs (4x BF862, 4x MMBFJ310)''. with a gentle HF filter designed specifically for the 9022/3. it requires a =/- 9 to15v supply for which batteries are recommended but I'm going to try Salas first. I've not heard it yet but fingers crossed on the SQ. blow by blow well not to much to report except for removing R17 to hook the new clock into the DAC via it's solder pad. that way i can go back to the original clock if i don't like the change. I'll take a photo and post where i am so far. the clock board looks pretty much like the last and any number of PSU can be used. just plug and play and with the new board I'm working on should be good for larger TCXO units also. I'll post a photo of the work so far. take care Just a quick thought about Jocham's buffer.. You could use Ray's buffer first then use this to null the output offset.. Allan
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2012 16:04:06 GMT
Hi Allan sorry for being a bit dense but Ray's Buffer is all new to me. i do remember a post mentioning it but i can't find the link. any chance of a refresher? take care
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2012 17:20:28 GMT
Hi All Here’s my ‘’bloody hell it’s hot in here’’ build of Wills PK. One linear 5.25V feeding the Teleporter. One 5.25 feeding the Trident PSU for the clock. One Salas 3.6Y 120mA on the DAC chip. One + and – 12v 120Ma for the new buffer which is in the post and on its way. 49 MHz Tent clock being fed by a 3.3V trident. Full frontal Ok so I had Will’s PK playing for a few hours and yes the clock has made some difference. It’s sounding a little smoother and more relaxed to my ears. The soundstage is also a little larger and deeper than it had been and also clarity and detail are enhanced. I’ll try the Tent Shunt on her tomorrow to hear what that does if anything. Sounding pretty good at the moment. Take care
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2012 22:52:43 GMT
and i had a long evening with Will's PK and TBH it's just seems to be getting better. not sure why but the PSU's are all new so maybe some burn in going on. I'll have a try with the Vanguard when it turns up. but the Tent Clock with Trident is a nice improvement SQ wise. sounding really nice. take care
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2012 11:44:53 GMT
Hi All I had a few hours to spare today so I decided to fit the new XEN filter buffer to Will’s PK DAC. The Jfets came pre soldered to the board so thank god so just the gnats poo sized components to solder which was a little eye popping at times. just blue tacked in for testing honestly guv and After an hour or so it’s sounding pretty good The treble is so much smoother and more refined without any loss of air or detail. Just more velvety. The DAC also benefits from a little extra drive and slam. A bit more of a party animal. Sounding very nice indeed. the board measures 3cm x 5cm soooo small Second GB under way should anyone wish to try for themselves. www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/216669-joachim-gerhard-filter-buffer-es9022.htmlMerry Exmas to you all. Take care
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