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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 11:36:13 GMT
Hi Jeff
I've popped a blow up clone in the post to you but if you want my advice I'd sent that one to work and stay at home your self ;D ;D
I've just had a very quick skim through the DIYAUDIO link you've posted and it looks very interesting indeed. I'll have a proper look at that later.
RG Speaker?
on the USB front
there are a few Async devices popping up on diyaudio and yup they are not cheap but you really do get what you pay for with the Lucien WaveIO.
Hi Alex
''Jeff What Shaun is indirectly saying here,is that the output of this DAC will be sensitive to load and cable capacitance issues. That is why most DACs have some sort of buffer stage after the DAC. Alex''
yes that's exactly what I'm saying (in a much more long winded way)and i remember when i was experimenting with RCA cables the SQ differences seemed quite large. adding the buffer made the 9023 much less sensitive to cable changes IMHO (and i want to chose the cables myself and not be told what to use by the 9023)
the 9023 has a mystery OP AMP driving it's OP so the DAC is not without help but i wonder how effective it is at driving the varying load it sees at the IP of the pre (pot).
having the DAC driving into the DCB1 @ a FIXED 20K and then having the buffer do the heavy lifting into the pre's vol pot does seem to help SQ wise.
it's sounding more ''natural'' and powerful IMHO but others may not find it so.
i have my buffer in a separate box so it's easy to swap it in and out which helps when comparing.
take care
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Post by veggiel on Mar 16, 2012 20:45:10 GMT
i have passed on one board to a Belgium friend with the same condition so hopefully we should be getting a post re his build soon. Hi shaun I can't thank you enough for your kindness in supplying me with this dac. I couldn't report anything up until today, because of the simple reason that today was the first time that there was music coming out of this little dac (which is really superb). So I finished the dac more than a week ago and on first inspection everything seemed to be soldered ok. So after I finished building the flea PSU for the dac I checked the voltage and it gave a nice 3.3V so no problem there I connected the PSU to the dac and no smoke or other problems and the power draw was something around 50ma. Then I connected all the remaining wires to the dac and turned it on hoping to hear some music, instead I got silence. measuring the voltage of the PSU it now was showing something around 3.5V which was strange but still not too much. So this made me quite desperate because now I thought a chip was broken and getting a replacement for the ES9023 is not that easy. I also tried feeding in the I2S of another dac because of a faulty solder joint on the WM8804 was the most likely cause. Yet still no sound, the flea was now on 3.6V powering the dac alone which is nice because it is the optimal level for the chip. So after this efforts I was quite demotivated, and put the project on hold. The only reason that I took up the dac again was because of the good reviews I read yesterday on the forum. So today I had another look at the dac for possible solder faults or something else. Luckily I had a epiphany otherwise I would still have no hopes for a working dac. I took my working dac (AK4693) connected a wire from the 3.3V of this dac to the Sabre and thank god finally sweet music. So somewhere there must be a fault in the flea that is unknown to me, still it measures ok. Now this dac is really singing I was never this happy with a new piece of audio equipment. I for one would certainly participate in a new GB since I have a few places where I could use this simple dac. The minidsp being one of them but I will have to take a look on how to wire that up and getting that setup working correctly. So really thanks again shaun and I will try to take some pictures tomorrow of the dac board. Now back to the listening.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 23:33:18 GMT
Hi Siebren well done on getting Wills PK DAC up and running it's great to hear. so now you need to think about an alternative PSU for the DAC chip. plenty to chose from on that front but you might like to try a RG JLH ripple eater first as its pretty darn good in that spot and also the fruit of work done here by RG members. as luck would have it i have a spare board that you would be most welcome to. if you'd like to try one PM me and I'll post it on to you. i think that the flea may be struggling a little at 50mA so no worries its all part of the fun. ''Hi shaun I can't thank you enough for your kindness in supplying me with this dac''. for my part I'd much rather hear that you've made something you enjoy which so much is better than me having more parts lying around doing nothing so you are most welcome. some pictures would be just great Now then DSP is something that we have just started to talk about so any links you have or suggestions for implementation would be great. i know that Jeff from the Sunshine state (Queensland) was just talking about that recently so it would be nice to have discussion about that. I'm pretty new to DSP and need to get up to speed with that side of things. implementing it with I2S connection? Welcome to RG and good work with the Iron take care
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 14:03:43 GMT
Hi Siebren, welcome to the grotto Wills PK is well worth the effort, a great sounding DAC for such a tiny thing if you discount the power supply hanging off the back of it. Good advise from Shaun on the RG JLH I have four single Regulated combo JLH boards giving a separate supply for each section, it took a while to run in but sounds superb now. Regards, Alan
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Post by jeffc on Mar 17, 2012 22:14:03 GMT
Hi Shaun, With my work efforts lately he'd probably make a better fist of than me Hi Siebren, I'm with Shaun and Alan, welcome and good on you for sticking with the your WPK-DAC build, it always rewarding to get something to work and even better when you wow, that sounds dam nice. My Alpha 15A dipole bass project is kind of forcing me to go down the mindsp path, although I originally came across these researching ambio4YOU which used the dsp4YOU minidsp for quick and easy ambiophonic playback. The trick ultimately for me will be how to use USB-I2S for both DAC and dsp. ATM using a CDP, the easy way to go, for optimal SQ, will be to port spdif to DAC and CDP analogue out to the dsp to my new multichannel power amp. Anyways, that's what I'll try first to get the dipole bass units integrated and I'll worry about all digital later. cheers.. jeffc
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 22:41:37 GMT
Hi Jeff haaa in my last employment they would have got more work out of the dummy ;D ;D ;D than they ever did out of me that DSP set up you have in mind sounds interesting soi'll have a read on that when i have a little time to kill. I'm assuming that you'll be using the DSP as an active Xover (er sort of) which would be interesting. I've had a play with Active Xovers with some good results but flagged under the amount of amps needed to make the thing work. IE 4xmono for an active two way stereo set up which starts to get pricey. but with those digital amps it starts to become financially viable and not to much of a space hog. doing the Xover in the digital domain sure saves space with no need for even more box's of button to twiddle and i can't see why that should not work well. I'll have a read up and then maybe I'll have a little more sensible conversation in me. interesting Idea though all the same so keep us posted and maybe some nice pictures of your Alpha sub or is it subs over on the speaker place would be nice. onwards and upwards Jeff take care
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 1:09:13 GMT
Similar here! Wills DAC is great. Mine has two of Alans combo PSU/JLH boards feeding just the post I2S section. Another combo feeds the little USB->I2S board off ebay. Sounds incredible for the outlay and the size.
Mine's on the shelf at the moment as I've started making the case to put both it and the SCHA into.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 11:12:19 GMT
Similar here! Wills DAC is great. Mine has two of Alans combo PSU/JLH boards feeding just the post I2S section. Another combo feeds the little USB->I2S board off ebay. Sounds incredible for the outlay and the size. Mine's on the shelf at the moment as I've started making the case to put both it and the SCHA into. Hi Chris good to hear that the little DAC is still running well. it's really nice to know that all of the SMD virgins (like me) DAC 's are still up and running. quite a success when you think about it and shows what can be done by people with a few basic tools and a lot of will power. well done guys take care
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Post by veggiel on Mar 20, 2012 20:31:49 GMT
So here is a picture of the dac a little later than anticipated but still here. Hi shaun thanks for the offer of the JLH psu if I understand correct this is a project that originated from this forum. Could you perhaps guide me to a part of the forum where I can find some information of this, cause the search engine does not like the 3 letter word "JLH". In regards of the flea I will try to repair it in some way since it is such a small piece I think I will be able to pull this off. I think I will use the flea for supplying the dac chip alone since this part gains the most by using a proper PSU if I understand correctly. I also put the miniDSP in the picture so you can see what it looks like. On the upper left is the digital part in and output board of the DSP with coax and toslink and on the right the actual DSP board with its analog out and inputs. These two boards communicate through the ports on the side of the boards, and one part of this communication is made of I2S. The way I use it now is by supplying a digital signal through toslink from my PS3 the DSP is then used as a Xo and EQ and puts out 4 channels. Channel 1&2 I take from the digital board coax output and this goes to a dac. The remaining channels 3&4 can only go to either the analog output or you can take the I2S channels and connect these to a second DAC. So the goal would be to take the I2S output and connect this to the PK dac, I just don't know what would be the most practical way of connect this.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2012 20:56:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2012 0:01:03 GMT
Hi Siebren very nice work indeed your SMD soldering makes mine look pretty shabby in comparison . OK I2S on Wills PK board you will find the following labels MRCLK not connected LRCLK BCLK DIN you should have a correspondingly marked header on your DSP board with a ground pin near to it. I found that I needed to connect my WaveIO ground to Dac PSU ground No need to connect MRCLK as you have a dedicated XO fitted for the 9023. BUT you will need to remove a few resistors though. R7 R8 R9 R10 all need to come out as they make a connection from the SPDIF part of the board. Then just solder in some short links from your DSP I2S header to the PK Dac. Here is how I made my I2S connections hope that helps take care
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Post by veggiel on Mar 22, 2012 20:02:27 GMT
Well I have narrowed down the problem with the flea PSU I can connect it to 3 of the 4 power inputs on the dac and then it works perfectly, but if I connect it to this one power entry the voltage drops to 1.8v and I think I saw 80mA being drawn. The point I am talking about is the power entry to the dac chip that is above the I2S traces in my photo it is the only green screw terminal for the power input. But if I connect a psu, part of another dac, to this point everything is fine. If someone knows a solution for this that would be very help full because I have no idea. During the process of finding my error I have taken some measurements of the power draw wit one single power supply connected to the dac? 43mA max with normal audio files and video files 49mA max with 96/24 files 53mA max with 192/24 files These numbers are for the receiver and dac chip combined, so normally 1 flea PSU should not have a problem powering the whole dac when the 50 mA output modification is used. very nice work indeed your SMD soldering makes mine look pretty shabby in comparison . you should have a correspondingly marked header on your DSP board with a ground pin near to it. I found that I needed to connect my WaveIO ground to Dac PSU ground Well since I came a little late to the party, all the information on how to solder the smd parts in this thread were very help full. In regards to the DSP I wish it was as easy as on the picture you showed of your setup. I don't know if you can see it clearly on the photo but those black expansion headers on the side of the board with the pins carry the I2S signal. So if you want to take the I2S you have to select the right pin and then connect this pin with the corresponding trace on the dac. So I will see what I can find to do this as practical as possible.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 20:50:12 GMT
Hi Siebren the green screw terminal you seem to be having trouble with looks like the PSU input for the 9023 DAC chip. OK let me just check that i have this right. the flea works on all PSU inputs except the one for the 9023 DAC chip. when you use the PSU from your other DAC to power the 9023 DAC chip it works fine. sooo I'm thinking that the only thing it can be is that the flea is struggling to provide enough current to the 9023 DAC chip. you may need to use a psu for the DAC chip capable of supplying more current. the board is working fine. the flea is working fine except for the 9023. the 9023 is working fine with your other DAC PSU. must be the fleas current capabilities. on the I2S front. looks like you may need to look at the DSP board manual (instructions) to find out which pins on the header you need to connect. then use a header plug and ribbon cable to connect to the PK board. just strip the wires at the other end and solder them straight into the corresponding points on the PK DAC board. take care
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Post by jeffc on Mar 22, 2012 21:22:46 GMT
Hi Siebren, I have those same minidsp/minidigi PCBs on the way, so you'll have some company soon I want them for active low pass of my new dipole bass set-up but....... not sure how best to do this yet as I'd like to leave the WPK-DAC spdif connection to my CDP as is ..... at least for the time being. Initially I'll use the CDP analogue out to the minidsp. But for keeeping all in the digital domain....... options options....... maybe the other way about to what you're thinking of trying........ I wonder whether I2S can redirected from the Wolfson receiver to supply the minidigi/minidsp as well as the ES9023? This is going to be some fun, I'm getting out of my depth on this. Homework to do, just what I need. cheers.. jeffc
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 23:44:06 GMT
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Post by veggiel on Mar 24, 2012 19:00:15 GMT
Hi shaun, I have found something else, I can actually use the flea to power the whole dac chip, I am listening at it right now. So the 2 power inputs on the receiver side of the board are being powered by the power supply of my other dac and the 2 power inputs of the dac chip are being powered by the flea. There is only one problem with this setup, if I power up the dac with the two power supplies simultaneously connected the flea drops to 1.8v again and I measure a 80mA power draw on the line. But when I connect the flea supply first and then the other PSU everything works perfectly. I really have no idea what could cause this behavior. The solution you propose for the miniDSP is probably the best way, I was thinking something along these lines.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2012 20:47:01 GMT
Hi shaun, I have found something else, I can actually use the flea to power the whole dac chip, I am listening at it right now. So the 2 power inputs on the receiver side of the board are being powered by the power supply of my other dac and the 2 power inputs of the dac chip are being powered by the flea. There is only one problem with this setup, if I power up the dac with the two power supplies simultaneously connected the flea drops to 1.8v again and I measure a 80mA power draw on the line. But when I connect the flea supply first and then the other PSU everything works perfectly. I really have no idea what could cause this behavior. The solution you propose for the miniDSP is probably the best way, I was thinking something along these lines. Hi Siebren OK I've had another look at your board picture ???but it's tough to see clearly. any chance of a close up picture? just one question did you solder in R7? if so you need to unsolder it R7 was a throwback to the original DAC which was run from the receiver XO. Will then fitted the dedicated XO for the DAC at a later stage but the pads stayed in. so if you fitted it take out R7 and see if that helps. i've only used the I2S input part of the DAC board so never soldered in any of those resistors. but here is Alan's board without R7 i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g403/drymdrum/saber-board-2.jpgkeep us posted take care
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Post by veggiel on Mar 24, 2012 22:12:47 GMT
Hi shaun, As it so happens I had R7 soldered in place, I just took all the components listed in the BOM and soldered them in there place. So now I have removed R7 and everything seems to work ok, thanks for the help.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2012 0:11:13 GMT
Hi shaun, As it so happens I had R7 soldered in place, I just took all the components listed in the BOM and soldered them in there place. So now I have removed R7 and everything seems to work ok, thanks for the help. Hi Siebren sorry for not mentioning it but as i say i only used part of the board so it slipped my mind. I'm really glad that all is now working well what a relief take care
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2012 0:33:43 GMT
BORROCKS! After a mains spike at home killing my very nice printer/scanner/copier we've just had another at work today. Everything went piggin' haywire. Most machines were happy with a rest and reset. The only victim on my laptop was the bluetooth board which has died but I've a plug-in to replace it. Most annoyingly the digital part of my SCHA/WillPK/USB to I2S combo has gone futt. It now distorts heavily on both channels with very muted volume Line in is OK, just the digi side of things. So back home tonight to hit the bench. I need to suss wihich board has been affected, either the PK or the USB-I2S, all PSUs are fine. I'm really missing it already, ASIO straight out of the HP socket of the lappy is really crap in comparison
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Post by Will on Jul 29, 2012 9:11:04 GMT
Hi Chris, That's a right pain, sorry to hear that your stuff's been knocked. The onlu advice I can give at the mo, is to either try another i2s source or build the spdif input up on the PK to see if that works. I've sent an email Cheers, Will
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2012 19:05:39 GMT
Hi Will,
Thanks for the info.
I'm currently narrowed down to the PK board. Either a dodgy solder joint "found" by the surge or somthing fried.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 10:49:21 GMT
Hi Will, Thanks for the info. I'm currently narrowed down to the PK board. Either a dodgy solder joint "found" by the surge or somthing fried. Hi Chris sorry to hear about your problem as it happens i have a spare soldered PK board (for I2S) which you would be welcome to if it helps. PM me your address and i'll post it out to you. it may take a little time to sort this end but if it helps then all good. take care
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 17:55:01 GMT
Hi Shaun, Nice to see you pop in, you busy bee! That's an offer too good to refuse, especially as I've now narrowed down to a knackered ES9023. Mant thanks and you have PM I still have the PSU on soak test but it seems to be behaving perfectly, currently wound up to 5v suppling a USB line.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 1:31:48 GMT
Many thanks to Shaun who supplied a replacement PKdac board with all the necessary for I2S already on board I now have a working unit again I took the precaution of winding the psu for the sabre chip down to 3.3 from a snadge below 3.6 I had before.
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