Project Headphone amp build thread.

[Garage1217]

Excellent, glad it arrived! And yes, A week after shipping is when the Russian valves finally arrived. Took a LONG time to get them and I was starting to question whether I would ever receive them.

Sept 11, 2011 12:45:21 GMT elysion said:

Sept 11, 2011 0:07:54 GMT Garage1217 said:

lol well some of the self proclaimed total novices that have built the sunrise from a kit / manual did it in 4 hours so I stand by my numbers And remember, I said novice / not total noob lol

Jeremy, first of all, I've received my prebuilt Project Sunrise amp and I'm very happy with it. This amp is a real beauty.

Mine is probably one of the last with a Electro-Harmonix 6922 tube, but that's absolutely no problem since I have a whole bunch of single tubes around that can't be matched in pairs. Currently, I give the Project Sunrise amp a few hours of burn-in, just to get sure everything works fine. So far, everything seems to works.

Next step are other tubes. Most likely, I'll start with some vintage Philips E88CC SQ (Special Quality) tubes with gold pins. These are from the early 60's and very likely built by Amperex. They have good bass and a warm sound signature.

Just to put in my two cents about the kit and the discussion above: It's great that the amp can also be ordered pre-built. That makes it possible for everyone to get the amp, even without any soldering experience. The additonal cost for the prebuilt amp is IMO very fair.

I'm still a total soldering noob. I've ordered soldering equipment recently to learn soldering, but, honestly, I don't think I'm able to assemble the kit soon. But again: That's absolutely no problem since I can order the amp also pre-built for a fair price.

Although I'm a total soldering noob, I already have a suggestion for the kit: What about soldering the SMD parts (LED below the tube) already on the PCB before the kits are shipped? I've seen quite a few kits which had the SMD parts already pre-soldered on the board. Of course, this would make the kit a bit more expensive, but those that have no the skills and/or equipment for SMD soldering would be very happy with that.

Anyway, it's a GREAT little amp and I'm very happy to have it here.

Thanks

Christian

[Garage1217]

Did a quick write up on how to solder an SMD like the single plcc-4 provided with the Sunrise kit.

What you need:
- The solder of your choice, small diameter is important. I recommend around a .020 to .030 max
- Spring loaded tweezers are highly recommended
- A good soldering iron with a small chisel tip around 1.5mm / set to around 275C depending on the type of solder you use.
- Magnifying glass if you need one

What to remember:
- LED's do not like a ton of heat.
- Do not keep the iron on the led for more than 3 seconds at a time
- A little solder goes a LONG way with SMD work. I actually went a little overkill in these pics but needed to so it stands out in the photos

The notch on the board has to be aligned properly...










Finished once each leg is soldered

[elysion]

I've changed the tube in my Project Sunrise amp this evening. I've used the stock Electro Harmonix 6922 for a few hours of burn-in and now, I've changed for vintage 60's Philips E88CC SQ (Special Quality).

Settings the BIAS was totally easy. Before settings the BIAS, I gave the amp around an hour for a real warm up. The measurements are exactly at 13.5V at full operating tempartures and keep stable there.

The sound is UNBELIEVABLE: Full and very deep bass, also very detailed and warm sounding. I've use the Philips E88CC SQ tubes a while back also in my X-Can V3 and they outperform the 6H23-EB's in some depertments (bass for example), but I've had a lot of imbalance problems, because it's almost impossible to match a pair. Therefore, the 6H23-EB perform much better overall in the X-Can V3. Not so in Project Sunrise. Here the matching is no problem and I can enjoy these tubes finally.

Unfortunately, I have to mention also a quite serious problem with the RCA jacks. I use (mostly) RockCables by Neutrik, these are quite a good value and still have Neutrik/REAN plugs. Never had issues with these cables, but today I had serious problems to plug these cables in and out of the RCA connectors on the Project Sunrise amp. I've feared (really) that I'd damage one of the RCA plugs on the PCB!

In the end, I had only one possibility left to remove one plug that was only halfway plugged into the right RCA socket (seen from behind the amp) and was stuck there. I had to use WD40 to loose up the extremely hard connection. I know: Putting WD40 on electrical contacts isn't quite a good idea. But it's still better than a damaged RCA socket.

I don't see a problem with the RockCables. Those cables are widely used and from a well known manufacturer. I've used them on a lot of devices without problem. I must admit that many RCA cables need a bit force to plug them into the RCA sockets, the RockCables are not exception here.

I think this could be made better with RCA sockets of the Sunrise:
– The particular RCA sockets seem to need quite a lot of force to plug the cables in. IMO another RCA socket type that is a bit more loose could limit the needed force greatly.
– There is no backplate that would secure the RCA sockets additionally and that would protect the RCA sockets by taking some of the applied force. I guess a mechanical security for the RCA ports (and maybe the pot) would make the amp more rigid.
–The RCA sockets on the PCB get a lot of heat from the nearby components (caps, heatsink etc.). Because metal expands when heated, the problem get the most serious on full operation temperature. After settings the BIAS, the amp was really hot and plugging the cables in right after that was probably a bad idea. I don't have another amp in my armory which has RCA sockets that heat up during operation. This is no problem with the X-Can's and my Neco MOSFET/BOSSFET amps. A real case could improve that while it could also make the RCA sockets mechanically more rigid.

I really hope there's really no damage to the soldering points of my RCA sockets. Currently, the situation looks absolutely OK, it sounds perfect and I have absolutely no contact problem or loose contact. The surface of the RCA sockets and the RCA plugs of the cables have got a extremely thin film of WD40. Only this made it possible for me to plug the cables in without further risk for damage. I've heard some creaks while removing the stuck RCA plug from the RCA socket, but I was extremely careful. So far no problems though.

Currently, I'm using the Project Sunrise amp with 68 Ohm output impedance and "Through (Input-)Cap" setting. At the moment, my DT 990 Pro's are plugged in.

The sound quality is just unbelievable good.

So far also no problem with noise/interference. This does suprise me somewhat because I have a quite noisy environment here. Lots of electronic devices around (including a lot of computer hardware). Power comes from an APC UPS though. I have a WLAN access point less than 2m from the amp, the emitted power of the WLAN access point is very low though. I've adjusted it to the absolute minimum needed for good reception though. You could sleep on that access point since the emitted radiaton is so low, it's much below the allowed 200mW. Putting my mobile phone next to the amp does also nothing. No noise, no interference, nothing...

[Garage1217]

Are you sure they are not locking RCA's? I have never had a problem or heard of one with the rca jacks on sunrise and they are as rugged as it gets for PCB mount jacks but anything is possible On locking RCA's you must loosen the jacked behind the rca connector by rotating it before it will press on easy. Many better designs feature this. If you tried to plug them in with the jacket not loose, it for sure would give you a lot of grief and would be near impossible to plug in. Just a thought but may just be an incompatibility.

[elysion]

Another thing that is worth to mention:

The difference between the stock tube (Electro Harmonix 6922) and the new tube (Philips E88CC SQ) is huge.

I've tested the Project Sunrise amp so far with the DT 990 Pro's and the Samson SR850's. Both sound much better with the Philips E88CC SQ tube. I found the sound a bit lifeless and disappointing with the Electro Harmonix 6922 tube, but I knew that it was only tube related. Good to hear that the prediction was true.

I must admit that the DT 990 Pro's combined with the Project Sunrise amp at 68 Ohm output impedance and the Philips E88CC SQ tubes is so far the best sounding combo I have. It's too early for a final rating, of course, but at least the tube needs no burn in. This one has already a couple of hundred hours of use seen in my X-Can V3. I've used this tube until the other tube the V3 was malfunctioning.

BTW: I've dropped the Philips E88CC SQ tube, that was malfunctioning a few months ago, accidentially on my glass desk today. Nice little implosion on the desk. At least it was the malfunctioning tube. Beside the smelly mess, no harm done.

[elysion]

Sept 12, 2011 0:05:33 GMT Garage1217 said:

Are you sure they are not locking RCA's? I have never had a problem or heard of one with the rca jacks on sunrise and they are as rugged as it gets for PCB mount jacks but anything is possible On locking RCA's you must loosen the jacked behind the rca connector by rotating it before it will press on easy. Many better designs feature this. If you tried to plug them in with the jacket not loose, it for sure would give you a lot of grief and would be near impossible to plug in. Just a thought but may just be an incompatibility.

AFAIK, these are not locking RCA's. Have a look here:

www.rock-cable.com/de-ch/produkte/rockcable/produkte/audio-line/stereo-kabel/nra-070-0080

I can unscrew the black part of the plug case though. That makes not a difference for the RCA connection, it simply unscrews the plug case to get you access to the soldering joints of the cable.

Maybe it only has needed a bit WD40. Some kind of metals don't slide well on all other metal surfaces. Maybe as simple as that.

I'm warned now: I'll used WD40 if I think the needed force is to high. The WD40 seems to have no negative effects, I've applied only a very thin film of WD40 (on both surfaces).

The soldering joints are extremely good though. I'm sure that I would have damaged a weak soldering joint today.

I've put slight pressure on the cable a couple of minutes ago. It seems that everything is fine and all solder joints are still fine.

[PinkFloyd]

Those plugs are bastards Christian, absolutely horrible things on "some" sockets.... I had to remove a similar plug from my Sunrise with PLIERS, they are way too tight for comfort!

They have ALWAYS dug into sockets on other gear and have always been a bugger to remove but this is the first time I had to use pliers to get them off

They go "ON" fine but are a pig to remove, I don't bother using them now.

[xerxes]

I had a cable with Neutrik Rean plugs and that was stupidly tight. I don't like those lock on plugs either, they're just more fidly to use and what's the point of having the ground connection locked on with a vice like grip, it doesn't make the signal connection in the centre any better or tighter.

I like the Eichmann Bullet plugs, but these seem to be a lot more expensive now than when I bought some. I'm not sure that a phono plug really worth more than £10.00 a pop.

[whiteghost]

unpluging the interconnects is not a thing you do everyday..

[mrarroyo]

I too like the Eichmann Bullet plugs, I have two silver IC's that use the silver Eichmann bullets.

[Z]

i like these Taversoe RCA one they use at blue jeans cable.

[elysion]

Sept 12, 2011 8:16:39 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Those plugs are bastards Christian, absolutely horrible things on "some" sockets.... I had to remove a similar plug from my Sunrise with PLIERS, they are way too tight for comfort!

They have ALWAYS dug into sockets on other gear and have always been a bugger to remove but this is the first time I had to use pliers to get them off

They go "ON" fine but are a pig to remove, I don't bother using them now.

Yes, the Neutrik REAN plugs have a tight fit. But so far, it was the first real problem I've had with them. I like them for (most) applications and the Rock-Cables (also a Neutrik brand) have very good VFM.

I think it's probably also a problem of the used material and certainly a problem related to tight tolerances. WD40 solved the issue so far and that's why I guess the used materials don't glide on each other, instead the are sticking together. I had only real problems with one of the Project Sunrise sockets, the other one was compartively easy for plugging/unplugging.

Sept 12, 2011 14:58:42 GMT xerxes said:

I had a cable with Neutrik Rean plugs and that was stupidly tight. I don't like those lock on plugs either, they're just more fidly to use and what's the point of having the ground connection locked on with a vice like grip, it doesn't make the signal connection in the centre any better or tighter.

I like the Eichmann Bullet plugs, but these seem to be a lot more expensive now than when I bought some. I'm not sure that a phono plug really worth more than £10.00 a pop.

Thanks for the hint, Owen. I'll consider these plugs in the future. Probably also a question where to get them for a reasonable price.

I've ordered some soldering equipment recently, this also with DIY cables in mind. I was thinking of recabling some of my Superlux/Samson 'phones, but RCA cables could be also worthwhile.

BTW: Does settings the BIAS only need to unplug the source and headphones or is it also mandatory to remove the cable on the input side? I've set the BIAS with all cables unplugged, but I'm happy if I don't need to remove the RCA cable on the amp every time I have to readjust the BIAS.

[xerxes]

I've tried several variations of DIY interconnect cable and compared them to some very expensive Townshend Isolda DCT300 cables - complete with those awful, pointless, locking plugs.

The best result I got was using some fine, single core, copper wire with unbleached cotton insulation together with the Eichmann bullet plugs. To make them a little sturdier, I twisted the two wires; this may also provide some RFI rejection, but I didn't notice any difference to them being un-twisted, it just made them a bit neater.

www.homegrownaudio.com/products/26-AWG-Copper-Wire%252d-Cotton-Dielectric.html

The cables look really pathetic, like bits of tatty string, compared to some the fancy, sparkly commercial cables, but sonically, although they didn't quite better the Townshend cables, they came very close indeed and given the price difference, I was really pleased with the results.

[elysion]

I like my Project Sunrise amp very much. The money for it is well spent.

So far, I've tried few of my headphones with the amp and I didn't try all possible settings.

The DT 990 Pro's are a match made in heaven together with this amp, I use the 68 Ohm output impedance setting. The K702's don't sound really good, at least at 68 Ohm ouput impedance, but these 'phones are extremely hard to satisfy with an amp.

The stock Electro Harmonix tubes aren't my cup of tea, but I have expected that before I've bought the amp – it's absolutely not a problem since I have a few interesting tubes around.

The Philips E88CC SQ (Special Quality) tubes are my favourites. Those tubes are from the early 60's, made by Philips in Heerlen (NL). Exactly that plant was also manufacturing the famous Amperex Buggle Boys. In fact these Philips E88CC SQ's should be indentical to the Buggle Boys (which are made by Philips in Heerlen). The tubes have gold pins and their sound signature is absolutely awsome. Great bass and a very warm sound signature with a sweet treble. Perfect for extended listening sessions. Too bad I have only few of these tubes...











The current design of the Project Sunrise amp is almost perfect IMO, at least for an "open" amp without a real case.

It looks great (I like the LED below the tube socket in contrast to others here), but I think the amp sounds so good that a variant with a real case would be an advantage. That would also cure the problem I had with the RCA sockets. Sure, the RCA problem was related to the Neutrik/REAN RCA plugs, but so far I've never had a real problem with the Neutrik/REAN plugs.

Build quality of the prebuilt amp is absolutely TOP NOTCH. Many thanks for that great piece of workmanship. I like this amp really very much.

I guess it should be possible to make a case for the existing Project Sunrise amp design. That means that it is not really necessary that Jeremy sells his own cases. We could make your own cases for it.

On the other hand, I'd be very interested to buy a revised amp that would come already in a good case with shielding. A real case would improve handling and long time reliability IMO.

I had almost no problem with interference and noise though. I have to stop the music playback and turn the pot up to pick up anything.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2011 4:16:12 GMT elysion said:

I
I had almost no problem with interference and noise though. I have to stop the music playback and turn the pot up to pick up anything.

My noise issue was minor Christian. I'm a nit picker for noise and maybe it's more my problem than the amp itself.

Wouldn't surprise me if someone, somewhere gets a noise issue because as Mike has said, there are countless variations of environment out there.

One thing which has been proved though (whatever it was that I had), it can run totally silent. Mine is now spot on and there is no noise at all.

As you say, the DT990 sounds fantastic from it. It gets used more than anything I have along with my V2.

Ian

[elysion]

Ian, if you get a chance: Try the Philips E88CC SQ's. I'm sure you'll like them – at least if you get a NOS tube in good condition. Personally, I'll like them more than the Russians, but it's impossible to find a matched pair with the few "SQ's" I have. The matched Russians from Mike do a much better job in my X-Can's, exactly because they are matched.

Perhaps you also remember than I have like my K702's the most when I had the Philips E88CC SQ's in the X-Can V3. After one of the tubes has died and they got replaced with matched Russians, I've lost the interest in the K702's almost completely. Not because the X-Can V3 is a bad amp or because the Russians are not good. Far from it! The main problem is that the Philips E88CC SQ are a perfect match with the X-Can V3 and the K702's. The V3 is still the only amp that sounds really good with the K702's, though the V-Can and the PreSonus HP4 are also not bad. But the Russians aren't optimal for the AKG's, while they do execeptionally well with other 'phones like the DT 990 Pro's.

[Deleted]

Hi Christian,

I've got very tired of trying to tame the K701 if I'm honest. I jsy crave more bass after a while and feel that the 'guts' of the music is missing with it.

I only stuck with it because of all the fanboy type reports on it, but I never really got it as I wanted. The best for me was the Panda, but I feel that these types of cans are just not suited to my tastes.

It's one of the few I tried so hard with and in the end, the DT990 brought the music back to me a got rid of the 'analysis'.

In fact, the Sunrise and DT990 are actually very good together and it's the combo I use the most at the moment. It really gets into the recording and provides a lovely warmth as well.

I like the lift i the bass in spite of the so called 'hi fi' experts saying that the K701 is more accurate. It's not to me!!

Ian

[PinkFloyd]

I've got very tired of trying to tame the K701 if I'm honest

Will anybody actually tell the "truth" about the K-701? They are CRAP! I breathed a sigh of relief when I sold my pair.... thin, feeble, anaemic presentation.... anybody who thinks that is "natural" is friggin' DEAF!

Very very POOR pair of headphones from a company with such a good track record.....

"My K-701 sound like turd".... it's your amp mate

"I can't seem to hear any BASS through my K-701" It's your amp mate

"I have been burning them in for 2 years now and they still sound like turd" It's your amp mate

"where is the bass?" It's your amp mate


NO NO NO! It's the AKG K-701, they are friggin' crap!

[PinkFloyd]

Sept 18, 2011 4:16:12 GMT elysion said:

I like my Project Sunrise amp very much. The money for it is well spent.

So far, I've tried few of my headphones with the amp and I didn't try all possible settings.

The DT 990 Pro's are a match made in heaven together with this amp, I use the 68 Ohm output impedance setting. The K702's don't sound really good, at least at 68 Ohm ouput impedance, but these 'phones are extremely hard to satisfy with an amp.

The stock Electro Harmonix tubes aren't my cup of tea, but I have expected that before I've bought the amp – it's absolutely not a problem since I have a few interesting tubes around.

The Philips E88CC SQ (Special Quality) tubes are my favourites. Those tubes are from the early 60's, made by Philips in Heerlen (NL). Exactly that plant was also manufacturing the famous Amperex Buggle Boys. In fact these Philips E88CC SQ's should be indentical to the Buggle Boys (which are made by Philips in Heerlen). The tubes have gold pins and their sound signature is absolutely awsome. Great bass and a very warm sound signature with a sweet treble. Perfect for extended listening sessions. Too bad I have only few of these tubes...











The current design of the Project Sunrise amp is almost perfect IMO, at least for an "open" amp without a real case.

It looks great (I like the LED below the tube socket in contrast to others here), but I think the amp sounds so good that a variant with a real case would be an advantage. That would also cure the problem I had with the RCA sockets. Sure, the RCA problem was related to the Neutrik/REAN RCA plugs, but so far I've never had a real problem with the Neutrik/REAN plugs.

Build quality of the prebuilt amp is absolutely TOP NOTCH. Many thanks for that great piece of workmanship. I like this amp really very much.

I guess it should be possible to make a case for the existing Project Sunrise amp design. That means that it is not really necessary that Jeremy sells his own cases. We could make your own cases for it.

On the other hand, I'd be very interested to buy a revised amp that would come already in a good case with shielding. A real case would improve handling and long time reliability IMO.

I had almost no problem with interference and noise though. I have to stop the music playback and turn the pot up to pick up anything.

I've got a few of the Philips SQ kicking around, will give them an airing next time I have the PS hooked up..... I think I might have 20 of them, totally pristine / never used..... found a box of Siemens (gold pins) today and a box of Mullard gold pins..... no WAY will I sell any of them.... they are "investment" stock

[leo]

Sept 18, 2011 21:06:24 GMT PinkFloyd said:

I've got very tired of trying to tame the K701 if I'm honest

Will anybody actually tell the "truth" about the K-701?

Everytime I mentioned it folks tended to get pissy

[elysion]

I can't live with the K701/K702's too. The DT 990 Pro's are my favourites and they do everything better.

My K702's have sounded best with the V3 and the Philips E88CC SQ tubes. The tubes have helped to mask some of the AKG problem (taming the treble a bit and enhancing the bass).

In retrospect, the K702's have been a mistake. Now I'm a Beyer fan boy.

I look forward to hear you opinion about the Philips E88CC SQ's, Mike.

[Deleted]

I can't say the 701s are shite. They are a flavour I keep coming back to.

Yes, the bass could be better but their detail, speed, "headstage", comfort and mid-range, high range are superb.

I have not heard a headphone (admittedly there are many I haven't heard at all) that does not have a major flaw. Either generally across the board or in a certain area.

Having been here long enough to suss various peoples favoured flavours I know, for example, that I would find something like the Beyer 990 ultimately boring for my tastes.

If you dislike the 701 it means you are not willing to sacrifice bass response for other preferences, which is fine, horses for courses blah, blah.

Many people here like the Portapro in standard form, I HATE them! Bass heavy, muddy, lumpy, just plain yewky and unlistenable.

It's the old one mans poison....

[elysion]

K702's are not crap. But they are hard to satisfy and not all music sounds good with them.

The DT 990 Pro's are more universal usable for me. They sound good with most stuff.

The K702's are especially good for finding flaws in recordings. They mask nothing and are very unforgiving. This in contrast to the DT 990 Pro's and even more the HD650's.

I'll keep the K702's, but they are not my main 'phones.

[Deleted]

The Siny 7506 is good for flaws as well Christian but it's not really what I'd call a 'musical' sounding headphone. I guess that edge and ability to dissect the music appeals to some.

Ian

[PinkFloyd]

Sept 19, 2011 6:07:23 GMT @iancraig10 said:

The Siny 7506 is good for flaws as well Christian but it's not really what I'd call a 'musical' sounding headphone. I guess that edge and ability to dissect the music appeals to some.

Ian

Have you tried tweaking them yet Ian? Mine have greatly "mellowed" since adding the butyl rubber damping and new cable / jack.... I actually quite like them now, the build quality is decent and Frasier wears them so quite an iconic headphone if you are a follower of "Frasier"

I could always send you over my "tweaked" pair and see what you make of them compared to the stock 'phones.... they are deffo less "shrill" and maybe a bit better balanced now but maybe I'm just imagining it.... would need to compare them to a "stock" pair.