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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2011 19:44:26 GMT
another question for Ian, with your K601 when you put the volume pot around 3 or 4hours (almost 100%) and while music is playing, do you hear a mega-distorted sound through the headphones ? don't do this with the K601 on your ears, or you'll become dumd !!! Is it normal ? (just tried it 1 second; i don't want to damage anything). You are probably over driving the 'phones OR the amp is clipping... I would NOT recommend you listen to music at those volume levels as you will destroy your headphones / eardrums. |
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Post by whiteghost on Sept 10, 2011 20:09:42 GMT
for the mkii i do my suggestions:
- more space for the capacitors
- psu inside the case with a shield on the transformer (a beefy PSU please)
- power button on the "front plate"
- stop using volume pot as attenuator, use it as a reference at the current gain like ACSS implementation in Audio-gd products.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 20:10:12 GMT
another question for Ian, with your K601 when you put the volume pot around 3 or 4hours (almost 100%) and while music is playing, do you hear a mega-distorted sound through the headphones ? don't do this with the K601 on your ears, or you'll become dumd !!! Is it normal ? (just tried it 1 second; i don't want to damage anything). If it's going into distortion then you probably are doing some damage. You couldn't possibly listen up there in any case. I don't go much further than 11 o clock and that's loud. It could be your power supply is being sucked dry!!  Ian |
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Post by whiteghost on Sept 10, 2011 20:15:16 GMT
You are probably over driving the 'phones OR the amp is clipping... I would NOT recommend you listen to music at those volume levels as you will destroy your headphones / eardrums. if i put bigger caps and beefy psu do you think it can help to reduce amp clipping ? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 20:27:05 GMT
I've started to feel that the power supply is half of the amp, but so many of us treat it like an afterthought and expect a good sound.
Ian
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Post by whiteghost on Sept 10, 2011 20:36:30 GMT
I've started to feel that the power supply is half of the amp, but so many of us treat it like an afterthought and expect a good sound. Ian did you have made the test ? do your sound start distort at 70% of your vol pot when you try to use your K601 like speakers ? (just tried it an half second). |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2011 20:43:45 GMT
If there "IS" going to be a MKll then I'd rather not see a valve in sight.... the whole shebang enclosed please! The original Indeed / Bravo amps were great as "cheap and cheerful" devices and also looked good with all the glowing lights / bottles but they were open to all sorts of external interference and superb dust magnets. I wouldn't fully enclose a G2 as I don't feel it is such an accomplished amp as the Sunrise but the Sunrise is WORTH maxing out and "maxing out" (in my humble opinion) is getting rid of all the "bling" and enclosing it inside a nice case. What "works" in your environment may be a working nightmare 3,000 miles away so I am a great believer that ALL equipment should be FULLY protected against any possible RFI / EMI and, usually, the best way to do that it to shield it inside an enclosure. I will never forget the time that David White sent his latest and greatest WNA MKlll head amp to a Head-Fi meet (I organised it)... we both agreed that it sounded the Pig's nads (pig's nads are larger than dog's nads so even better!)..... HOWEVER, the enclosure was not grounded  Anyhoo..... the said "meet" was opposite the Empire State Building in New York and the "head-fiers" were picking up a lot more than MUSIC through the MKlll..... taxi cabs, hums, buzzes, police radios, aircraft etc.  Let's just say that it didn't go down too well at the "meet".... LM6171 on board too so you can imagine just HOW bad the scenario was! When the "world" is your audience you do have to ensure that a product is BULLET PROOF and will work in all environments.... just because it works in your environment doesn't mean it will perform the same thousands of miles away in Greenland (for example).... there are SO many variables to contend with and NO manufacturer can contend with them all so has to ENSURE that input / output coupling caps are fitted, the equipment is FULLY shielded etc. etc. etc. This used to be the reason most DIYers tweaked commercially built amps.... to REMOVE all the fail safe protection and get the components out of the "signal path"..... Quite funny with these "open frame" designs, we are now DEMANDING that the bullet proof parts be "ADDED" The ONLY downside to the Sunrise amp is it's susceptibility to external interference.... the rest of the protection system is state of the art and actually more than any other manufacturer employs.... the DC protection / relay etc. is something that should be employed in ALL headphone amps IMO. It would be foolish to launch a MKll Sunrise in the same open frame type package (in my opinion) There is no reason to do so and every reason to house it in an enclosure (shielded).... I reckon it could be "THE" headphone amp that other's wanted to aspire to.... Lose all the lights, they are nothing but eye candy and TOTALLY non essential to the sound quality.... whack everything into a shielded enclosure (possibly with a removable lid for servicing) no more than a simple LED on the front panel (to indicate it is ON)..... a little switch to switch between low and medium output impedance...... FANTASTIC sounding amp, as it is, but would reach it's full potential if enclosed / shielded. Put me down for one if you decided to go down that route Frans. |
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Post by Garage1217 on Sept 10, 2011 20:47:59 GMT
You are probably over driving the 'phones OR the amp is clipping... I would NOT recommend you listen to music at those volume levels as you will destroy your headphones / eardrums. if i put bigger caps and beefy psu do you think it can help to reduce amp clipping ? Set the amp to 10ohm on the outputs which will give all she has got at the impedance you are running it at. A larger power supply will not do anything at all for clipping. The most the amp draws before or at clipping is around 650mA depending on a number of things but overall the amp is not capable of drawing even close to the rated output of the power supply. For setting the volume, 3-4 is pushing it pretty hard as around 4:30 -5 is 100%. I recommend turning the source up and turning the amp down  Jeremy |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2011 20:52:32 GMT
I've started to feel that the power supply is half of the amp, but so many of us treat it like an afterthought and expect a good sound. Ian did you have made the test ? do your sound start distort at 70% of your vol pot when you try to use your K601 like speakers ? (just tried it an half second). Why would anybody either A: Want to perform this test or B: need to perform this test ? I have many pairs of loudspeakers and I KNOW that if I turn any of my amps up to 100% volco I will blow a tweeter or two.... I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here? WHY would you want to use your K-601 as speakers? Is it a French thing?  FFS man, what kind of water are you drinking over there? Banana plugs on speakers were banned after a French guy plugged his speaker plugs into the mains and ELECTROCUTED himself to death (as one does)... this is why all speakers you buy now come with the banana sockets plugged up (easy to remove the bungs )..... I hope you are not related to this guy? |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2011 20:56:21 GMT
if i put bigger caps and beefy psu do you think it can help to reduce amp clipping ? Set the amp to 10ohm on the outputs which will give all she has got at the impedance you are running it at. A larger power supply will not do anything at all for clipping. The most the amp draws before or at clipping is around 650mA depending on a number of things but overall the amp is not capable of drawing even close to the rated output of the power supply. For setting the volume, 3-4 is pushing it pretty hard as around 4:30 -5 is 100%. I recommend turning the source up and turning the amp down Jeremy A faster answer Jeremy..... "you need a friggin' hearing aid" |
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Post by whiteghost on Sept 10, 2011 21:02:49 GMT
Output is set to 10 Ohms, my questions about clipping, distortions, etc.. it's because I want to know if it's normal...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 21:08:05 GMT
10 ohms out is a bit low for a K601. I would prefer 120, but not possible to produce enough to drive that.
Turning the volume up that high is just theoretical and it could damage the headphones.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 21:08:08 GMT
By the way... these guys send out free samples of a wide range of alu mesh (and each sample is the size of an A5 sheet of paper) so you could easily knock something up for free with a variety of free samples www.goodingalum.com/Thanks for that Mike, I've just requested some samples. Cheers, Dave. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2011 21:13:18 GMT
It's not a "test" mate.... it's being "stupid"..... it's much the same as firing the tip of a hot soldering iron down your Jap's eye to see if it hurts.... I don't NEED to try this "test", I am sensible enough to know the end result Jeremy, you may have to add the "nut" allergy warning in the manual..... "warning, this amp may attract nuts" |
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Post by whiteghost on Sept 10, 2011 21:32:45 GMT
It's not a "test" mate.... it's being "stupid"..... it's much the same as firing the tip of a hot soldering iron down your Jap's eye to see if it hurts.... I don't NEED to try this "test", I am sensible enough to know the end result Jeremy, you may have to add the "nut" allergy warning in the manual..... "warning, this amp may attract nuts" Lol, i'm not a Jap mike |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 21:39:28 GMT
You know, I went to Aguille du Midi (Scuse the spelling) but it was right by Mont Blanc. I went right to the top and could hardly breathe and then took a cable across the Alps to Italy. When I got out at the other end, these Japanese people were taking their shirts off and running around in the snow in the Alps. I did wonder why? Now I know, they like to turn up amps to see when they distort. Were you there?  Ian |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2011 21:44:55 GMT
It's not a "test" mate.... it's being "stupid"..... it's much the same as firing the tip of a hot soldering iron down your Jap's eye to see if it hurts.... I don't NEED to try this "test", I am sensible enough to know the end result Jeremy, you may have to add the "nut" allergy warning in the manual..... "warning, this amp may attract nuts" Lol, i'm not a Jap mike Jap's eye is slang for the "slit" in your penis head |
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Post by whiteghost on Sept 10, 2011 23:24:11 GMT
Lol i really need more practice to understand your jokes But i like english jokes, Benny Hill, Monty pythons, Mr bean, David Cameron, etc.. |
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Post by Garage1217 on Sept 10, 2011 23:31:19 GMT
LOVE Monty Python |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2011 23:57:20 GMT
Disagree Jeremy, that is a bold and incorrect statement. Somebody with years of skill (and tools to hand) could put one together in 4 hours but it could take a total novice WEEKS / MONTHS to finalise the build... I found it hard soldering the SMD LED on to the board and I class myself as an EXPERT! Total bullshit saying a "novice" could have a Sunrise up and running in 3 -4 hours.... NO WAY! 3 to 4 DAYS for an expert, more like 3 MONTHS for a novice |
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Sept 11, 2011 12:45:21 GMT
Disagree Jeremy, that is a bold and incorrect statement. Somebody with years of skill (and tools to hand) could put one together in 4 hours but it could take a total novice WEEKS / MONTHS to finalise the build... I found it hard soldering the SMD LED on to the board and I class myself as an EXPERT! Total bullshit saying a "novice" could have a Sunrise up and running in 3 -4 hours.... NO WAY! 3 to 4 DAYS for an expert, more like 3 MONTHS for a novice lol well some of the self proclaimed total novices that have built the sunrise from a kit / manual did it in 4 hours so I stand by my numbers And remember, I said novice / not total noob lol Jeremy, first of all, I've received my prebuilt Project Sunrise amp and I'm very happy with it. This amp is a real beauty.  Mine is probably one of the last with a Electro-Harmonix 6922 tube, but that's absolutely no problem since I have a whole bunch of single tubes around that can't be matched in pairs. Currently, I give the Project Sunrise amp a few hours of burn-in, just to get sure everything works fine. So far, everything seems to works. Next step are other tubes. Most likely, I'll start with some vintage Philips E88CC SQ (Special Quality) tubes with gold pins. These are from the early 60's and very likely built by Amperex. They have good bass and a warm sound signature. Just to put in my two cents about the kit and the discussion above: It's great that the amp can also be ordered pre-built. That makes it possible for everyone to get the amp, even without any soldering experience. The additonal cost for the prebuilt amp is IMO very fair. I'm still a total soldering noob. I've ordered soldering equipment recently to learn soldering, but, honestly, I don't think I'm able to assemble the kit soon. But again: That's absolutely no problem since I can order the amp also pre-built for a fair price. Although I'm a total soldering noob, I already have a suggestion for the kit: What about soldering the SMD parts (LED below the tube) already on the PCB before the kits are shipped? I've seen quite a few kits which had the SMD parts already pre-soldered on the board. Of course, this would make the kit a bit more expensive, but those that have no the skills and/or equipment for SMD soldering would be very happy with that. Anyway, it's a GREAT little amp and I'm very happy to have it here. Thanks Christian |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2011 13:18:24 GMT
It's a gorgeous listen Christian. I'm REALLY impressed with it and very chuffed how mine has turned out, thanks to Mike.
I wouldn't feel confident putting it together but in all fairness, the assembly instructions are excellent.
I put a synth together when I was young but that was before I became cautious and started to look for problems in things if you see what I mean. After nearly killing myself through electric shock, I have a very strong fear of electrics because you can't see anything to stop you really hurting yourself.
Following my acute shock, I never touched an iron again. In fact, I almost have a phobia now. It surprises me sometimes how blase some of the guys here are with electronics!!
I had a good look at the instruction book when Mike sent me his and I actually did understand what to do. Reminded me of all those years ago when I put the synth together from a set of instructions.
In all honesty, I probably could put this together but when you're so familiar with parts and what they actually look like, it's far easier than going on a 'hunt' for the bit that goes wherever.
I think that's Mike's point. I would indeed, take some time to get the parts sorted and even understand what bit is what.
I did a tube check with a meter yesterday and even that was a search job for me trying to find out where to stick it!!
It's doable though.
Get ready for a warm, dynamic sound - the DT990 is unbelieveably good from it.
Check the heat from it because in the long term, it's better kept low and is really simple to stick extra sinks on top. Mike has put no less than 6 on mine (3 per side) and I can put my hands on them and not get burned.
It doesn't do any harm getting hot, but in the long term it can and is best kept cool imo.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2011 13:47:29 GMT
I held back on this one for the reason of external interferences as experienced with the G2. When I first got it things weren't too bad but after moving both home and business my new environments seem to be very noisy for this amp.
If a MKII did happen, within a case, ie kit form with case provided then I may be interested.
Christians point about pre-mounting any SMDs X2
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 11, 2011 14:02:27 GMT
That was EXACTLY my point Ian A good idea to familiarise yourself with all the bits, double check them with a multimeter before fitting them etc..... NOT rush in like a headless chicken and race against the clock to complete it Just ONE tiny mistake can take AGES to trace. The instruction manual IS excellent, one of the best I have seen. |
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Post by Garage1217 on Sept 11, 2011 16:23:49 GMT
Thanks guys! And NO problem pre-mounting the SMD led. I do them all the time. I will get a writeup together however on the next one I build to show how to mount an SMD / how to solder one, especially a 4 legged one. Once you get it down, it will take no time at all to solder them and many that learn the tricks will prefer SMD over through hole as you can actually work faster with them.
The main keys to working with SMD are...
- Spring loaded tweezers
- Very small / fine solder. I generally work with .022 size for most except 0603 sized devices
- Being near sighted lol The good lord blessed me with that thank goodness! Or use a magnifying
glass
- A VERY good iron and proper tip.
Let me see what I can cook up on a how to guide for you guys. Maybe I can get to that today, but again I will just start mounting the leds prior to shipping to avoid any issues.
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FFS man, what kind of water are you drinking over there?
