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Post by colinb on Jul 25, 2011 14:38:17 GMT
The first production HD250IIs (silver rings) retailed at £129 from what I remember. And the second 2nd production ones (grey rings) were £149 so slightly more expensive. I think they were discontinued around 5 years ago now, maybe longer.
£399 is a ridiculous price! Don't buy those!
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funk1969
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Post by funk1969 on Jul 29, 2011 22:00:32 GMT
Something that annoyed me about the stock HD250 II was the flimsy cable. I admit I have seen worse but still something Sennheiser should be ashamed of.
I replaced the stock cable with a HD650 cable but I am not sure yet if I will keep it that way. What do you think of the stock cable?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2011 6:48:25 GMT
I remember reading somewhere the the hd650 cable is the same in terms of copper wire, bit has a different thickness plastic.
I don't mind the cable since it hangs from those plugs in the cups and if you looked inside the cups, you'd see just one strand of cooper, thinner than a hair, connecting the plug to the speaker! So if there's less weight pulling on the cups it may help to prevent it failing.
I also like the dual plug for portable amps.
It was a low cost headphone at £130 when being sold and was roughly about the same price level as the hd25 so it was good value: especially if you got a good 'un since they can be quite variable.
Ian
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funk1969
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Post by funk1969 on Jul 30, 2011 8:43:39 GMT
Thanks. I am not sure if I will keep the HD650-cable on yet.
Out of precaution I taped up the ends of the stock cable.
130 Pounds might be low cost, but the HD600 has the same cable and I for one detest it if a headphone manufacturer cheaps out on the cable. Above a certain price point you are allowed a minimum of quality in my humble opinion.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 30, 2011 9:38:39 GMT
Thanks. I am not sure if I will keep the HD650-cable on yet. Out of precaution I taped up the ends of the stock cable. 130 Pounds might be low cost, but the HD600 has the same cable and I for one detest it if a headphone manufacturer cheaps out on the cable. Above a certain price point you are allowed a minimum of quality in my humble opinion. The Sennheiser cable is actually very good (IMO) it is low noise (mechanical noise) and nice lightweight / flexible stuff.... why oh why would you want to have a length of hose pipe hanging around your neck?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2011 10:12:50 GMT
Thanks. I am not sure if I will keep the HD650-cable on yet. Out of precaution I taped up the ends of the stock cable. 130 Pounds might be low cost, but the HD600 has the same cable and I for one detest it if a headphone manufacturer cheaps out on the cable. Above a certain price point you are allowed a minimum of quality in my humble opinion. The Sennheiser cable is actually very good (IMO) it is low noise (mechanical noise) and nice lightweight / flexible stuff.... why oh why would you want to have a length of hose pipe hanging around your neck? Absolutely Mike. I couldn't hear any difference between stock and HD650 cable. Current marketing however, kind of brainwashes us into magic cables and it wasn't until I had the Stefan Audio cable that I felt robbed. a) I couldn't hear much difference if I'm honest. b) I couldn't stand the connection on the earpiece that touched my shoulders when I tilted my head left or right. c) It was heavy. d) The plug wasn't even soldered on straight which is even more appalling than the Senn cable at £175 (?). e) It wasn't even a pretty gold plug! Funny thing is, I actually like the versatility of the hd600 cable. The hd650 borders on getting heavy!! Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 30, 2011 10:25:25 GMT
Yup.... same with that Cardas stuff Ian (you have it now!), very obtrusive around the body and the sheer weight of it hanging down can NOT do the connectors any good, long term..... Sound quality sounded, erm, better with the HD-600 cable to my ears. I would feel absolutely RAPED if I paid £175 GBP for a length
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2011 10:31:02 GMT
;D ;D Well, I did feel a bit sore after getting the Equinox. Now I know why. Ian
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funk1969
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Post by funk1969 on Jul 30, 2011 11:06:42 GMT
Thus you paid for extra grammes of cable and cable material.
I for one would not go for pipe-like-cable. The stock cable on the HD250 II borders on cheap though.
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Post by johnwillett on Jul 30, 2011 15:14:47 GMT
There is no replacement at all for the HD 250 I helped to develop the HD 250 back in 1986 when I used to work for Sennheiser UK. The original HD 250 was replaced by the HD 250 II, which many thought was not quite as good as the original. It was discontinued and replaced by the HD 265 which was even worse (certainly for professional use) so Sennheiser bought the HD 250 II back again and it remained in production until about 2006 I think. There is no Sennheiser closed headphones currently available that I would use over the HD 250. I am just praying that they use the technology of the HD 800 and bring out a top class pair of headphones with the ring driver technology. Until then I am sticking with My HD 250 and HD 25-1 (both Mk.I versions). Hi John, Nice to see you on the forum. You probably don't (or maybe do) remember me..... I was "that" guy who was constantly asking you questions about the lifespan of a driver I remember you VERY well from your days with Sennheiser and you were ALWAYS happy to help (well, you did your best to sound happy )..... It's an honour to have you here and I hope you can learn as well as share your knowledge. All the best, Mike. Thanks Mike. John
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Post by johnwillett on Jul 30, 2011 15:18:06 GMT
HD250 II is in, I am pleasantly surprised. Pretty efficient too... Question is this...... do you have a "good" pair that reproduce "bass" in a subterranean fashion (you will know if they do) or one of the shite pairs that just "do" bass? It depends on what you mean by "bass" It can mean a good natural bass that goes very low. Or it can mean a hyped boosted bass that may not actually go very low but is boosted to sound as if it has a heavy bass. I prefer the former.
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funk1969
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Post by funk1969 on Jul 31, 2011 3:15:04 GMT
Natural, otherwise I would have almost binned the Sennheiser which I almost did with the HD265.
You get what is on the recording and Kodo music does not lie to your ears...
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funk1969
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Post by funk1969 on Jul 31, 2011 20:52:57 GMT
It might seem strange but the low end sounded more present with the HD650-cable. Even so I prefer the stock cable.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 31, 2011 21:35:00 GMT
Question is this...... do you have a "good" pair that reproduce "bass" in a subterranean fashion (you will know if they do) or one of the shite pairs that just "do" bass? It depends on what you mean by "bass" It can mean a good natural bass that goes very low. Or it can mean a hyped boosted bass that may not actually go very low but is boosted to sound as if it has a heavy bass. I prefer the former. The former of course!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 31, 2011 21:35:53 GMT
John,
One phenomenon I never got an answer to was the FACT that my first pair of (very old) HD-600 actually started to wear out.... we hear so much about "bed in" but there is not much discussion about the drivers wearing out!
Basically, the bass became weaker and weaker to the degree that they sounded more like an AKG K-501.... the mids and treble were just the same but the bass almost disappeared! They were used daily for maybe 5 or 6 years and my ONLY explanation is that the diaphragms must have gone out of compliance specs....
Sooo..... am I correct in assuming that (like everything else) the compliance of a diaphragm is NOT constant over many millions of excursions and eventually the sound will change as the characteristics of the diaphragm change?
Your view on this would be most appreciated.
All the best,
Mike.
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Z
Fully Modded
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Post by Z on Aug 1, 2011 0:52:54 GMT
the bonds between the molecules in the plastic break down over time and the magnets lose their power too.
wonder why they don't just use field coils?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 1:37:51 GMT
Energised by what ?
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funk1969
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Some things are so easily overlooked...
Posts: 481
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Post by funk1969 on Aug 1, 2011 8:59:11 GMT
Sennheiser Electrets for the masses, hurray...
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Post by johnwillett on Aug 1, 2011 15:43:05 GMT
John, One phenomenon I never got an answer to was the FACT that my first pair of (very old) HD-600 actually started to wear out.... we hear so much about "bed in" but there is not much discussion about the drivers wearing out! Basically, the bass became weaker and weaker to the degree that they sounded more like an AKG K-501.... the mids and treble were just the same but the bass almost disappeared! They were used daily for maybe 5 or 6 years and my ONLY explanation is that the diaphragms must have gone out of compliance specs.... Sooo..... am I correct in assuming that (like everything else) the compliance of a diaphragm is NOT constant over many millions of excursions and eventually the sound will change as the characteristics of the diaphragm change? Your view on this would be most appreciated. All the best, Mike. I have not heard about the capsules "wearing out" at all before. But earpads can affect things as the foam wears out and turns to dust (as all foam does) - are you still using the original foam earpads? I tend to replace mine every 3 years or so. Also, could you have burned out some of the coil? Sennheiser headphones have voice coils made from flat aluminium ribbon. This is light and very responsive to make the headphones more accurate and with a faster transient response. However, aluminium has a lower melting point than copper and, if the headphones are left plugged in, the switching surge of the equipment can melt the aluminium. A worst case is that the coil becomes open-circuit and will not work; a lesser problem (but still a problem) is that turns may be shorted, changing the impedance and changing the sound. I hope this helps - but I think I would discuss it with the Service Dept. of your local Sennheiser Main Agent.
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Post by johnwillett on Aug 1, 2011 15:46:03 GMT
Natural, otherwise I would have almost binned the Sennheiser which I almost did with the HD265. You get what is on the recording and Kodo music does not lie to your ears... I *did* bin my 265s The HD 800 goes very low, the bass is very natural and if it's not in the recording it's not in the headphones. These are my personal headphones of choice now..
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funk1969
250+
Some things are so easily overlooked...
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Post by funk1969 on Aug 1, 2011 21:11:45 GMT
The HD800 is certainly impressive but I prefer my K240 DF. I am not sure if the HD250 II is a keeper as good as it may be...
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Post by johnwillett on Aug 2, 2011 14:15:05 GMT
The HD800 is certainly impressive but I prefer my K240 DF. Have you actually listened to the HD 800? The K240DF are certainly excellent headphones, but the HD 800 is something different; which is why they are being taken up by mixing and mastering engineers, especially for classsical. I am not sure if the HD250 II is a keeper as good as it may be... Personal choice.......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 14:56:50 GMT
John,
Do you find the Frequency Response of the HD250 II less in the mids than the HD800? Personally, I love the HD250II but if I used it for mixing, (I'd rather use monitors tbh) I'd tend to end up with the mids slightly too high and the top end slightly low, which suggests that they have a strong top end with the mids slightly taken out.
For monitoring the quality of the recording, I prefer the HD600 or 650 personally since they give a more 'speaker like' sound, but the HD250 II is a fun headphone with a sub-woofer kick which is great.
For monitoring (performance)I use Beyer DT150 which is easier on the ears long term than the HD250 II since the treble seems quite elevated in comparison to the Beyer. BBC studios seem to love the Beyer DT770 for some reason, with it's massive bass - I don't get that tbh.
It's a pity that there is no closed headphone replacement for the HD250 in the same price area. It seems to be difficult to find a full sized closed headphone that is close to accurate without problems with internal reflections or poor bass quality.
I also seemed to have done a capsule in on my 250 a year or so ago. Mind you, it was old.
I'd be happy if the HD800 is close to the HD250 II with perhaps a stronger mid presence.
Ian
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funk1969
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Some things are so easily overlooked...
Posts: 481
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Post by funk1969 on Aug 2, 2011 20:01:39 GMT
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Post by johnwillett on Aug 3, 2011 12:32:39 GMT
John, Do you find the Frequency Response of the HD250 II less in the mids than the HD800? Personally, I love the HD250II but if I used it for mixing, (I'd rather use monitors tbh) I'd tend to end up with the mids slightly too high and the top end slightly low, which suggests that they have a strong top end with the mids slightly taken out. For monitoring the quality of the recording, I prefer the HD600 or 650 personally since they give a more 'speaker like' sound, but the HD250 II is a fun headphone with a sub-woofer kick which is great. For monitoring (performance)I use Beyer DT150 which is easier on the ears long term than the HD250 II since the treble seems quite elevated in comparison to the Beyer. BBC studios seem to love the Beyer DT770 for some reason, with it's massive bass - I don't get that tbh. It's a pity that there is no closed headphone replacement for the HD250 in the same price area. It seems to be difficult to find a full sized closed headphone that is close to accurate without problems with internal reflections or poor bass quality. I also seemed to have done a capsule in on my 250 a year or so ago. Mind you, it was old. I'd be happy if the HD800 is close to the HD250 II with perhaps a stronger mid presence. Ian I have never compared the HD 800 with the 250 as they do totally separate jobs. I would use the 250 for live recording sessions where I cannot use open headphones (which is how I used them originally) and for musician playback. I found the HD 800 gave me a sound that was pretty indistinguishable from the instrument played live in the room - it blew the 600 and 650 out of the water. I found them very revealing (good as well as bad) to the music and the source equipment. I really want Sennheiser to do closed headphones with the same technology (ie: ring capsule) as the HD 800.
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