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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 10, 2011 23:42:32 GMT
OK because of your obvervation finally I figured out what kind of MK1 is this I thought it is used for broadcasting or similar. I found it on ebay and being a HD250 fanatic, I just had to go for it, even it went fairly high. Interestingly, the transducer is 600 ohm and not 300 ohm like most MK1s so this one might be great with a tube headphone amp. I actually put the cable back, it is very awkward to use it like that, but if you turn the drivers upside down they don't sound as good, so the orientation does matter! I tried putting the pads in the same orientation and it still wasn't as good. Maybe later I will ask someone to make a cable similarly to the HD-25 so it would be a lot easier to use. Are you sniffing an exhaust pipe?
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Post by padam on Jan 10, 2011 23:43:31 GMT
By the way, when I used it in "standard not ex-demo disguise mode" I turned up the writing as well so it looked cool, you cannot do that with a HD560II i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww244/p_adam/HD250/IMG_8642.jpgBut I don't know why but at the rotated position the soundstage and the bass is worse. Maybe it is out of phase or something?! I don't know. Pinkfloyd, what do you mean? The way these phones produce the bass make them very sensitive to the fit (for me anyway), with the Linear II I needed to fiddle with the orientation because I have protruding ears which affect the sound (which can result in slight bass imbalance). But at least it is infinitely easier to adjust than an Omega II which made me crazy for a while, probably just not made for me. Maybe it was the headband or I don't know what but for me it does sound better the way it was.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2011 17:05:03 GMT
Out of curiosity I had another look and listen to my 560s i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn7/cjarchez/Headphones/Senny560OvII.jpgI tried them again and compared them with the ear pieces mounted cables down and up. On this model I could not detect the slightest difference in sound presentation. Looking over the 'phones, the pads are uniform in shape, the drivers are mounted straight and flat and there is no discernible, nonuniform shaping of the chamber behind the driver. Thus explaining the result I found. Despite being semi-open they also share the same basic shell as the 250. Having never even held a set of 250s, let alone heard or opened any, I can't comment if they're enclosure assemblies have any characteristics that may change their response once turned vertically through 180 degrees. Maybe some owners know?
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Post by padam on Jan 13, 2011 7:00:29 GMT
Ok I will try again, very like the pad sealing interacting with the ears and that the drivers and I haven't rotated them properly.
I tried a HD560II before, the construction is not quite the same, the drivers are likely to be the same. The HD540 and HD540II are much more similar though so in theory it would be possible to convert a phone like this to a HD250/HD250II but on the added H250 cups heavy modding is needed because the mounting to the headband is different. But on the plus side, you are able to use the HD250 pads on HD540s while you cannot do that with HD560s.
On the other hand, I tried my two best HD250IIs on my friend's custom class A power amp (which he used for K1000s) with a 330 ohm resistor adapter I got from Colin and it made a Big difference to the sound, even more open, more dynamic and the bass on the late pair gained control. It sounded amazing, didn't have that much time unfortunately but it quickly turned out that the HD250II does like as much power as it can get.
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Post by padam on Jan 17, 2011 23:03:51 GMT
Ok it turned out the problem I experienced was caused by driver mismatch. The original driver on one side was emitting a distorted sound so I replaced it with an other 600 ohm MK1 driver I got which had the same volume output but probably a slightly different sonical signature but that was enough to mess with the sound. But now I somehow managed to fix that driver and put it back (I hope it won't go wrong again because the backup driver is useless as I found out). It is tremendously better. 600ohm MK1 vs (early) MK2 is probably similar to what people are experiencing with 'bass-light' and 'bass-heavy' R10s. The MK2 extends a bit lower - mid and upper bass punch is still very much there on both and the MK1 is definitely no worse in bass extension the "average" phones - but it is the MK1 that has the "purer" midrange where in the MK2 the bass ever so slightly in the way, the deep bass is certainly deeply impressive but the closed-back design still presents some of its disadvantages (although to a lesser degree than in other closed phones) So on a lot of tracks where the MK2 doesn't have any deep bass advantage, the MK1 is arguably more pleasant to listen to. And the late MK2 has an even stronger (more "subwoofer-like") deep bass presence but slightly less controlled than the early one and definitely dominating a bit too much at times so I hope I can tame it down later with a better amp and it is good for movies and gaming.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 15:17:23 GMT
Did anybody ever order the Russian ones ?
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Post by dicky on Jan 18, 2011 17:24:40 GMT
I bottled it in the end. I just didn't feel comfortable putting my address and credit card details into a page that I couldn't read completely - and the web translator had too many gaps. I'm sure I missed out on a deal - but hey-ho!
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Post by padam on Jan 18, 2011 22:36:43 GMT
Got some Superlux HD668Bs lately (with velour pads as well). They are not bad phones (especially for the price) but the HD250s are on a different level altogether. Especially the 600ohm HD250MK1 which is really surprising after the driver fix and more similar to the Superlux in tonal balance but on a completely different level. The highs are a bit digital (my main complaint, not as easy on the ears) and not as extended on the HD668B compared to the Senns and the midrange is not as full and the deep bass is not as audible (it is there but lower output) and the soundstaging is simply excellent on the HD250 for a closed phone. The superlux is certainly quite balanced but overall the music is much more alive and dynamic on the HD250s, if I were to sum it up I would say they give more of everything.
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Post by padam on Jan 29, 2011 22:38:05 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 29, 2011 23:35:21 GMT
The only bad part of the review was you didn't write it here..... I'll copy it over so Rock Grotto members don't have to switch channels to view it Padam's HD-250ll Linear review: Studio monitor at its best Reviewed by Padam - January 27th, 2011 at 7:41pm I am not too good at writing reviews - at least I think so, which the main reason why I don't do reviews - but I feel these phones are way too unknown here and they deserve to get one. These were studio monitors made between 1991-1995 and 2000-2007 (wonder if they brought them back on request). Some changes were made during production so not all pairs sound quite the same and they didn't apply HD600 levels of quality control either, which means that in some pairs the drivers might not be as closely matched as with others. Let's being with the most surprising aspect, which is the bass. Amazing punch, depth and extension when the recording demands it but without the heavy coloration or muddiness most closed headphones present. That said, the deep bass is slightly more pronounced than the mid-bass but I find this a pleasant coloration and the speed it quite good, too. According to a magazine review I found, it extends down to 20 Hz which seems accurate. In this aspect, it would be interesting to compare it with the legendary Audio-Technica ATH-L3000 which costs more than ten times as much. It simply redefined bass extension for me and I had to realize that many other phones simply don't have deep bass at all and sound thin and bright in comparison on a lot of recordings (especially classical but on others as well). The O2 also has good bass extension but being a fully-open electrostatic phone, the presentation is different. If you want a more "speaker-like" punchy bass you might prefer the bass of these in some ways and but you probably want it with the texture of an O2 as well (which you obviously won't get). The highs are also excellent, weighty and extended and just in the right quantity with none of the veil you might feel with the HD6xx series. If you pair them with a bright (or low-end) source they might show too much of the flaws present in some recordings (or the source itself) but with the current setup I have no complaints. The midrange is good. I say good because while it is quite full it is certainly not 'vastly better than average' like the highs and lows but at least free from peaks. Being a studio monitor the focus will always be more on the analytical side than on the musical side but the whole sound will always depend on the system, not just the phones themselves. So a musical source and musical (probably tube or hybrid) amp are a recommended pairing but if you want to use these for monitoring - as you certainly can - or you just like a dry, sterile type of presentation then a neutral source and amp should work better. So far I found that the strong deep bass presence 'eats into' the lower mids slightly but so far I haven't had the opportunity to try these with a real high-end headphone amp which might give better separation that might help eliminating the problem. I will update this review if I gain more experience. I also use the original HD 250 Linear headphones (which are nearly as old as me) where the drivers are incapable of providing the extension of the Linear IIs - they still have reasonably good bass but much more in line with the "normal" headphones so I would call them mediocre in that aspect - but in exchange I feel that the midrange while being similar is a bit more pure and pleasant to the ears so for some less energetic music I use these as well. So basically what we have here is a very balanced, dynamic (energetic), analytical type of sound with good transient speed and detail and great clarity (for a dynamic phone). It is also very extended (full-range) on both ways and free from any big peaks and with a slight dip in the midrange (diffuse field EQ?). With this type of FR the sweet spot is lower than the average headphones, so it is great for low level listening as well. The soundstaging is also very good, especially for a closed phone and better than many mediocre semi-open and fully-open phones. In the brochure I read that Sennheiser applied diffuse field equalization to the phones and I feel it really does work well here. While it not the widest it is not cramped like most supra-aural phones plus it is quite deep has a good sense of height and good positioning. Of course an open headphone will always sound more natural but really you can't expect much more from a closed one. For example the Sony CD3000 does have a larger soundstage but some might argue that it is inaccurate, not true to the recording and the sound is rather unbalanced, and the bass is rolled off and a bit muddy (that said, I'm saying that to many other headphones since I own these). The comfort is great. Snug (circumaural) fit with very little clamp and they are quite light for their size. The pleather pads were a little sweaty at first but I quickly got used to them so now there is no sweat at all. The headband adjustment is easy and simple. If it is a bit loose (not clampling) it is recommended to tighten up a little for the best sound. The isolation is also quite good, although it not quite as good as the HD25s but better than the Audio-Technica ESW10JPN and vastly better than the Sony CD3000 or Denon D2000. You can certainly tell that these were made for the studio as they are very durable and rigid. I have a pair which is 20 years old and with new pads and foam it sounds just as good as new (but these are essential for the best low-end performance and to calm down the highs a bit). Despite being made from cheap materials, the construction is very sturdy. That said the voice coil (internal tiny wires between the drivers and cable connectors) can be a little vulnerable and repairing that is really hard so it's better not to drop them. The cable is easy to replace. The connector type is the same as with HD6xx series, although the plastic that surrounds it is not 100% the same so slight modding might be needed. So it is possible to experiment with various expensive aftermarket cables (if you think that these are worth spending for instead of a better source/amp..) but the stock cable does seem to have a sound signature suited to the phones. But putting on a HD650 cable might worth a try, it is very cheap and I found this to be a solid step up without messing up the balance, treble becomes more detailed. Movies or gaming? No problem, they might be a bit of an overkill but the advantage of soundstage and bass extension (and comfort) are still very much useful here. But these probably will not go well with Dolby Headphone because they are already diffuse-field equalized. All in all, I think these are superb all-rounder headphones and since I have these I have reduced my collection quite a bit as they seem to cover quite a lot from what I want from headphones. Maybe later on my opinion will change completely? Hard to tell but since I made some changes to the system they sounded better and better and there is still quite a lot of room for improvement. No, these are a long way from being one of the best headphones of the world. However, if we add the tags like 'closed' and 'dynamic' or 'isolating' I would say they are certainly up there. They are simply brilliant for what they are and the fact that Sennheiser is probably not going to bring them back again and just continue with what they are doing now makes me quite sad. I think if they would improve the construction slightly (e.g. improve the drivers and protect the voice coil, aluminium housing for better resonance control, better stock cable, not sure anything else is needed) and re-position them in the market as high-end closed, consumer headphones they would be more than competitive today. Despite being a rather important part of the current market they don't have anything here, come on Sennheiser!
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Post by UzminiNu on Jan 29, 2011 23:37:28 GMT
Is here any link to the russian website?
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Post by padam on Jan 29, 2011 23:54:07 GMT
Ok some rockgrotto exclusive comments:
Recently I carried all my pairs to a local minimeet and quite a few people liked them (a guy just wrote that they smoke the K601s but I can't say I am surprised). I found that on low-end sources and amps they can sound quite bad (you loose some of the extension capabilities plus you get harsher highs, this was more apparent on my later pair but on my system I think the highs are just fine with both LinearIIs) but once you up the ante a bit they are very good and at the moment I still use an amp that is holding them back and I still really like them. Best I heard so far is from a Benchmark DAC1 + custom class A amp (used for K1000s) with resistor adapter.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 30, 2011 0:06:38 GMT
Ok some rockgrotto exclusive comments: Recently I carried all my pairs to a local minimeet and quite a few people liked them (a guy just wrote that they smoke the K601s but I can't say I am surprised). I found that on low-end sources and amps they can sound quite bad (you loose some of the extension capabilities plus you get harsher highs, this was more apparent on my later pair but on my system I think the highs are just fine with both LinearIIs) but once you up the ante a bit they are very good and at the moment I still use an amp that is holding them back and I still really like them. Best I heard so far is from a Benchmark DAC1 + custom class A amp (used for K1000s) with resistor adapter. Well fck' me..... that is one hell of an interesting story..... thanks for sharing it here first!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 30, 2011 0:10:35 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 30, 2011 0:14:39 GMT
It's dancing Jim but not "dancing" as we know it!
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Post by padam on Jan 30, 2011 0:21:03 GMT
Apologies, need some sleep instead of consuming exhaust pipe and stop posting idiotic comments..
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 30, 2011 0:39:53 GMT
Apologies, need some sleep instead of consuming exhaust pipe and stop posting idiotic comments.. No no..... continue as you are, just do it at Head-Fi, not here.
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Post by padam on Jan 30, 2011 0:51:31 GMT
Thanks, I got the message. Maybe it would be best to remove the review as it is irrelevant 'here'.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 30, 2011 1:03:20 GMT
Thanks, I got the message. Maybe it would be best to remove the review as it is irrelevant 'here'. Night night honey xx
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Post by UzminiNu on Jan 30, 2011 1:10:01 GMT
It's dancing Jim but not "dancing" as we know it! The scariest sh.te site i have seen this week. And no word in russian.. Have you mayby something against Irish people? I have seen worse in Manchester, a russian frend tried to bang some lesbians.And some english gaymen were really desperete to know the russian better. Ivil shouting in russian, broken glasses and gay hearts... It was really exciting. A victim, the 40 year old lesbian explained me that my frend was very rude and she is in relationship with the nice looking 19 year old (retarded girl). Who was a cleaning personell in the club.She cleaned up the broken glasses, silent..
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elysion
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Post by elysion on May 22, 2011 23:09:37 GMT
colinhummm, well if you tried the 681 pads and they fit ,have you tried the AKG 240 velo pads ? (i believe i have the right # but not sure ) I got a set from Fran's along with the modded hd681's. they are not so terribly expensive. I did not notice the hint from Chaz about the pads before. I had the same idea today. I've fitted AKG K240 pleather pads on my HD560 OvII's. So far very good results. I'll try the K240 MkII velours pads later. Now I have hope again for the HD560 OvII's. I couldn't use them for more than 15 minutes without pain in the ears. I think the AKG pads are much better regarding price, handling and comfort. In the case of the HD560 OvII's, I'm almost sure it will be an improvement with the HD560 OvII's. I'm not so sure with the HD250 Linear II's, but maybe someone will try it. Another advantage of the AKG pads with the HD560 OvII's: Now it's much easier to stuff damping material between the drivers and the pads. I see a lot more possibilities to get rid of the HF problem now.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on May 22, 2011 23:30:16 GMT
The pads of the AKG K40x/50x/60x/70x series fit the HD250 and HD560 (and all Senn's with same earcup design) size wise. There's NO mechanical bond between the pads and the earcups though. Maybe someone is able to make an adapter or maybe it's possible to bond them with adhesive tape.
I have no Beyerdynamic pads, but IIRC the size was comparable to that of the AKG K240's. Beyer has also cool things like gel pads. I'm tempted to get a few Beyer pads.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on May 23, 2011 1:06:45 GMT
I've tried the HD560 OvII's also with the K240 MkII velours pads. They are now totally different headphones. The pleather pads removed much of the annoying HF (additionally to two layer of viscose damping material in front of the drivers). I've used the viscose damping material also with the velours pads.
The sound with the velours pads is stunning. Strong and rather deep bass. A bit blurry in the upper mids and the treble, probably at least partially related to the damping, but IMO also somewhat because they are lacking resolution in comparison to the HD580's and the HD650's. That was also noticeable with the original pads and without the damping. I'm using them currently with the Neco MOSFET V2, after using it initially with the X-Can V3. The MOSFET is slightly superior with the HD560 OvII's, but maybe the AD8160's aren't a perfect match with them (they ARE a perfect match with the HD650's though).
Chris, I hope you see this (and that you still have your HD560 OvII's). I'd like to hear your opinion and maybe you could approve that it works also for you. I'll try also other damping material. Some damping is most likely necessary to get rid of the HF. I'm not totally sure at the moment if all HF has already gone.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 6:47:43 GMT
Christian, Yep, I was reading your exploits with interest. How did you attach the K240 pads to the Sennys? Preferably without loosing there ability to refit to AKG. I just have the one set on my K280s and could experiment Aren't we in the wrong thread though
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elysion
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Post by elysion on May 23, 2011 17:59:26 GMT
Christian, Yep, I was reading your exploits with interest. How did you attach the K240 pads to the Sennys? Preferably without loosing there ability to refit to AKG. I just have the one set on my K280s and could experiment Aren't we in the wrong thread though Just fit them as you would do with a K240 or a Superlux. Put the old Senn pads away and strap them over the earcups (earcups have the same size!). Afterwards your ears have more distance to the drivers. I had the idea after trying the AKG 601/701/702 pads with different AKG 'phones. K702 with K601 was AWFUL, HF almost like the stock HD560 OvII's afterwards. K501 with K601 was also not good. But K701/K702 pads aren't bad with K500. I'll try to post pictures soon (I know, I've promised to post quite a few pics and I didn't until now – I have not very much time at the moment and a total computer mess at home with almost all desks filled with computer stuff). The thread isn't about the HD560 OvII's, but maybe the AKG pads are helpful for the "bad" variant of the HD250 Linear II's. I've a lot more bass and details now. Sennheiser sold quite a few 'phones with the same design as the HD560 and HD250. For example the HD530, HD540 and HD565 (on most of them in more than one variant). Those can be found used quite often and for good prices, but the SQ was not state of the art. I'm VERY curious how the other Senn's with this earcup design perform with AKG pads.
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