XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 12, 2012 15:27:51 GMT
I bet a Frans' designed HP will beat all including the Stax, LCD 2 and 3 and any ribbon forthcoming. ;D So Funny Frans anyone? Money back guarantee by Frans if you pass his blind ABX test .............
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 16:21:04 GMT
'Franny Wangs' ?
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Post by Alberto01 on Apr 12, 2012 18:05:41 GMT
Technics RP-DH1200 and the DENON AH-D2000 are completely different sounding headphones. (never heard the PIONEER HDJ-1000) They are intended for totally different target groups (DJ or wannabe DJ and HiFi lover) Whether one considers the Technics RP-DH1200 or DENON AH-D2000 as better sounding depends on personal factors and perhaps even music type. Some even like Fanny Wangs while owning a D2000 ;D I have been thinking about getting the AH-D2000. I have the Technics RP-DH1200. They have good bass and mids, low treble quantity, but good treble quality. They have very good sound separation and almost no soundstage. They have cave like sound with low quality sources. At 24 bits, with an EQ with many bands and a good amplifier, they fill up well and sound very good and have no cave like sound, whatsoever. I was wondering HOW MUCH OF AN IMPROVEMENT in sound quality would get from changing to the DENON AH-D2000. One thing that I should point out is that the sharpness of the sound on the Technics was not good, until I realized that the drivers were to close to my ears. I added a little bid of cotton filler inside the cushions and everything got better. Bass became tighter, muddiness went away and the treble quality and quantity improved, even though they still lack quantity. Solderdude: What is different in the sound of the Technics and the DENONs?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 20:18:34 GMT
The Technics sounded like.. well.. reasonable headphones that are 'closed' sounding and tonal a bit 'off' here and there. For me too much shortcomings to own one but have become a bit picky and demanding over the years I'm afraid.
The D2000 (don't own one either but auditioned D2000 and D7000) is completely different. Plug it in and enjoy... no 'closed sound' and everything is directly there from really deep (but not exaggerated or bloated) bass to nice highs. a tad above neutral (lush would be the word). If I find one below E 200.- I might very well buy it.
Whether you will hear exactly the same and if you like it (being used to the Technics) is another matter perhaps. Hard to find one to audition.
One of the few headphones I prefer over the D2000/D7000 are the better Ortho's. But the price difference may not be worth the sonic improvement to some. The improvement only becomes obvious when listening to an ortho BEFORE you listen to the D2000.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 20:24:22 GMT
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Post by Alberto01 on Apr 12, 2012 21:29:46 GMT
Thank you Frans.
1) So, for you the DENONS are significantly superior to the Technics, right?
I will make it easy for you to give me an answer. I can be used to a set of headphones, but I would recognize a higher quality sounding pair of headphones very quickly, whether they are of the same signature or different signature as compared to what I am used to. For me quality of sound is one thing and sound signature is another thing. I would rather get a pair of headphones of much higher sound quality with a second or third best SS, than keeping a lower quality sound pair with the best SS.
2) "No it doesn't but is somewhere between the HE500 and LCD2 in signature."
What is the price of these "Frans designed headphones"? Are these Orthodynamic like the HE-500?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 5:27:20 GMT
1: Without a shadow of a doubt.
2: the SFI drivers are no longer for sale, you would also need to have a pair DT990 to take apart and build the dedicated amp. Without it, it sounds like a $10.- HP with no bass. So they are not for sale and a one off. Indeed they are orthodynamic. Not comparable to the much cheaper T50 (Foster... not Beyerdynamic) Maximum soundlevel is not nearly as high as other HP's becasue of the huge compensation. Closest to that has been my DT1350 with HD25 pads but needs EQ'ing to become a HiFi phone. It is more a 'tool' for audio techs without that. Not nearly as comfy as most HP's though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 13:37:53 GMT
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Post by Seamus on Apr 13, 2012 14:39:20 GMT
Ian, I don't know if you are aware that although that slrhut give the impression of being in the UK, they are shipping the headphones from the US so may be liable to extra customs charges. Mind you the prices they're selling the D5000(£280) and D7000(£450) for are much cheaper than anywhere else. Tempting In another thread you made this comparison: In terms of bass quantity: Least - most K601 HD600 DT990 HD650 (roughly) In terms of treble Least - most HD650 HD600 DT990 K601 Mids Least - most DT990 HD600/650 K601 How do the Denon's fit into this and how would you rate them against these in terms of soundstage, imaging or sense of space.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 14:56:24 GMT
Hi Ian, Thanks for the offer. Extremely kind. If/when I take you up on it I will pay for it though There is always some Sunrise too on the Horizon as well. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 16:30:56 GMT
Ooh er ... sorry. I didn't realise Seamus. So they're not so cheap. £199 at HMV though but not the Brighton branch!!!! In terms of bass quantity: Least - most K601 HD600 DT990 HD650 Denon (But very clean bass.) (roughly) In terms of treble Least - most HD650 HD600 Denon (It's more refined than the DT990 & K601 though) DT990 K601 Mids Least - most DT990 HD600/650 Denon (I think!!) K601 TBH, I think the Denon is more colourful sounding and refined as well. Treble is really not rough and bass has plenty of quantity (If it's present in the recording) but also it lets the other sounds through with ease and doesn't dominate. My feeling is that it's slightly better (for me) than the HD650. It gives a more robust and clean bass as well as a lot more enlightenment in the treble. I think it's a really good buy at £200. Ian, I don't know if you are aware that although that slrhut give the impression of being in the UK, they are shipping the headphones from the US so may be liable to extra customs charges. Mind you the prices they're selling the D5000(£280) and D7000(£450) for are much cheaper than anywhere else. Tempting In another thread you made this comparison: In terms of bass quantity: Least - most K601 HD600 DT990 HD650 (roughly) In terms of treble Least - most HD650 HD600 DT990 K601 Mids Least - most DT990 HD600/650 K601 How do the Denon's fit into this and how would you rate them against these in terms of soundstage, imaging or sense of space.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 20:50:18 GMT
Yup, They add £35.99 to the price when you order. Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 21:11:38 GMT
Oh well .... HMV - £199. At lakeside.
Or on internet I think.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 22:28:16 GMT
I got them yesterday from HMV mail order, very fast delivery and they live up to all you say Ian, as expected.
The bass is very speaker-like to my ears, though someone may have already said that.
One minor gripe, for me, is the 'pleather' ear pads, can live with that minor point though.
They have made reminded me that the HD650s do seem to have a 'veil', though I haven't noticed it for some time. I do now though.
Syd
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 6:16:27 GMT
Syd, Mine are stitched. Is that pleather then? Do you mean your ears get hot because of it, or they don't fit your ears? Amazon don't stock them. I wonder whether they're going to be discontinued soon. A great pity if they are. Materials with superior acoustic characteristics have been used for the headphone's housing to ensure faithful reproduction of the original sound. Microfiber has been used to form the diaphragm so that it faithfully reproduces the sonic details and delicate reverberations that occur in concert halls. Optimum acoustics characteristics are achieved by adjusting the sound pressure balance in front of and behind the diaphragm. High-quality cables of equal length for the L/R channels are used to maintain optimum sound quality. These are OFC cables enclosed in a cloth mesh jacket. Light-weight magnesium frame lets listeners enjoy maximum comfort during extended listening sessions.
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XTRProf
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Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 14, 2012 7:32:38 GMT
There is always some Sunrise too on the Horizon as well. Then we have Sunset too? What a way to go for a HA specifically for MP3. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 8:13:17 GMT
It would be too dark sounding but complement a K701 because of it !
AFAIK the pads are real leather but very soft.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 8:48:16 GMT
That's what I thought. Been sniffing them all morning and then kind of thought well ....... subjectively, they SMELL like leather but that could be expectation bias.
They are very soft but some complain that space for the ears is a bit tight.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 9:03:38 GMT
I've always assumed pleather means plastic leather Ian, maybe it doesn't I find them quite warm but fine for ear-room, though I did wear them for quite a long session. I assumed it was a plastic material because it's so perfect, I see Frans reckons they're leather, either way I'm more than happy with them despite the heat! I get no sense of them being closed back which is clever design. Overall build and appearance is the best I've seen. Syd
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 9:32:25 GMT
Yes, you'll find all kind of nuances on your CD's. They really do pick out minute detail and it's all very subtle as well. They do sound like big speakers to me.
I suspected that orchestral might be too rumbly on them since rock and pop really hits hard. However, I had a good listen yesterday to some (including piano which is hard to reproduce well) and the bass seems to dissipate and you get a lovely 'clean' listen until the timps or bass drums start going.
The other thing I noticed (probably because I'm listening more closely) is the placing of the players is very good. For instance, one piece I was listening to featured an oboe solo followed by a cor-anglais, and I could plainly hear that the cor-anglais was slightly to the right of the oboe in virtually the next seat.
Depth is difficult for me on headphones, but I think the clarinet was behind the oboist and to the left as well, so the left/right placement is really fine.
I tend to hear depth backwards. ie. If it's at the back and centre, I hear it at the back of my head, not in front of my eyes. I find depth in a headphone very difficult to work out - maybe because I know it's a headphone. No problem in the left./right span though.
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Post by Seamus on Apr 14, 2012 22:07:15 GMT
This review suggests it's 'pleather': www.headphone.com/rightbetweenyourears/?p=1280Also NwAvGuy (or Frans' evil twin ) has an interesting comparison between them and the HD650: "DENON AH-D2000 vs HD 650: The Denons are my closed back reference and are significantly more sensitive (efficient) than the HD 650. The D2000 has a more forward and intimate sound than the 650. Instead of sitting 10 rows back, it’s like you’re on stage and the musicians have huddled around you. It’s a different perspective but it’s otherwise tough to fault the Denons when listening to clean recordings. I’d say the Denon’s lower midrange and upper bass is subjectively more accurate than the 650. Like the 590, the Denon is brighter in the highs but it’s a cleaner sort of bright. But it’s still a double edged sword and, in my opinion, the Achilles heel of the Denon. On less than ideal source material the D2000 shines a relentless spotlight on high frequency flaws. The sound is more strident and can become fatiguing much quicker. The lower bass is a bit more exciting on the Denon while the upper bass is more accurate but its overall similar to the 650. So, for me, it mainly comes down to the Denon’s slightly “cooler” midrange, brighter highs, more intimate soundstage and much less forgiving nature. On clean source material they’re both very pleasing headphones in their own ways. For evaluating gear and recordings, I think the Denons are the better choice. But for enjoying typical mass produced music, the Sennheisers get my vote for their ability to smooth over the rough edges. The Denons are also significantly less comfortable because they rest more on, rather than over, the ear with their oddly shaped ear pads. They’re also heavier." I suppose the shape of the pads is slightly unusual, do you find your ears fit in the hole in the middle or are the pads resting on them?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 22:27:16 GMT
I feel that the Denon is an improvement on the Senn 650. The twin is suggesting the 650 in order to use its 'masking' skills because of poor recordings. How about just buying a pair of Fanny Wangs. Everything sounds the same then!! There is more detail coming from the Denon IMO than the Senn. I never thought I'd find anything at the same price point that would match the Senn bit I really feel that it has the edge.
My ears seem to fit but it is close. I can wear them all day though. Going back to the Senn 650 is difficult. It seems so middle focused by comparison and just a tad 'boring'.
Normally after a few days, I start to hear things I'd rather not on new headphones but I feel rock solid with these.
£199 is a bargain for them. Cheaper than a 650 and way more fun to listen to.
The only thing is that it's not really a proper closed headphone and neither is the D1100. I've compared them to the D2000 and although they're not as good, they don't sound too shabby either. Not for £90. They also have this optimiser thing in the pads so they're not fully closed either.
I've never considered a Denon until now. Now I think they make some really good headphones!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2012 10:34:23 GMT
The shape of the aperture is sensible looking to me, oval rather than round. My Senn 650s are the only other pair that I have like that, all the rest are round.
The Senns and Denons fit my ears fine but for instance the Superlux 681 with (AKG?) pads are too small for lengthy wear.
Syd
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2012 12:16:46 GMT
I thought you had said that, it sprang to mind when I first used them. I tried Angela Hewitt playing Bach this morning and it’s just as you say Ian, very accurate. They give a very good rendition of the sharp edges whilst at the same time reproducing the bass notes with neither spoiling the other. The bass reproduction generally has amazing detail. Thank goodness for Google, I now know what a cor-anglais is and even that it exists I have the same difficulty, my brain doesn’t allow me to get the sound out in front therefore the depth is if anything in reverse to me. I tried The Eagles and the height as well as the right to left placing was great. I'm using C.H.Amp for these sessions, great for setting the resistance and gain just right for these. Certainly glad I heard about them! Don't go reporting when you find anything better, my cupboard is full Syd
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Apr 15, 2012 13:38:36 GMT
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