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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 7, 2012 14:24:16 GMT
Mike, SERIOUSLY, walk away! I've been there, strangely enough a Spanish lass during my 6th form/college years. Total nutter, never did know how she turned out as fullt fledged adult but quite frankly once out-of-it I really didn't care. Sounds cruel I know but such an enormous relief. A later alcoholic girlfriend was positively easy going in comparison! I've walked and away and this time there will be no walking back Chris... It's friggin' amazing just how a woman can mess with your head to the point you feel physically ill... the thing is, I don't think she's even aware she's doing it! Almost as if she's in a world of her own, quite oblivious, totally all about "her".... nah, bollocks to all that the downs are just not worth the ups.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2012 14:38:02 GMT
It's all very well saying this, I know, Mike but you're right to just let it go. You can't have someone making you ill. I had noticed that you were in the hedge as it were and it's not good for you to brood over a girl. It's also no good if you have to change for them. They're just not right. One will come along when you're not looking and it'll hit you between the eyes. Get yourself a nice big present and forget her!! No one wants to see you down, Mike. I suspected as much. There's nothing worse than feeling in the doghouse because of a woman. It gnaws and eats at you and you lose interest in everything. It's really horrible and can affect your health terribly. Get some D2000's and put 'The Wall' on to drag you backwards through that hedge and out the other side and then party with Shpongle!! Seriously, the Wall is terrifying through them!!!! Chris, I think these will stay. The ones that I've held up as good in the long term are: AKGK601 - flat (ish) and clean. Senn HD650 - Warm and easy on the ears. Beyer DT990 - Entertaining but I know they're tailored (!!) AT M50 - Big bass. Easy to drive. Musical. Senn ie8 -portable and big sounding. (custom fitted though) Koss Portapro - Warm easy to drive headphone. and would you believe it ...... Fanny Wang but for one job only - Ipod unamped. They warm up the clinical sound of the Ipod and are so easy to drive from it. They're not a good headphone, but they do the job rather like crappy DJ headphones!!! The D2000 kind of counteracts the negatives of all of these so I'm looking for a flaw!! The negatives the other headphones are: AKG K601 - thin, mean bass but better for me than K702. Hard to drive. Senn HD650 - can mask music. Not brilliant with string sound. Quite mid orientated too actually!! Beyer DT990 - sometimes it's nice to take a break. Can be too enthusiastic but I do like them. ATM50 - I know they're bass heavy. However, I am drawn to them. Senn ie8 - could sometimes do with more extension in the treble. Koss Portapro - can sound bloated. So far, the D2000 seems very extended with a sweet sounding treble and hits very hard in the bass. I suspect you may not like the bass it gives although the closed Superlux headphone you're using does give it some!!! I could use the Denon to work with for long periods if they made a higher impedance version. It's the first 'musical' monitoring headphone I've heard. Monitoring headphones tend to not be very entertaining!! Try the Sony 7506 as a monitor. Very detailed but for music - yuk!!!!!! Beyer DT150 - great to wear all day. However, curtailed treble so that ............... you can wear it all day!!! Why the BBC favour DT770 I really don't know. It can be very fatiguing long term. HD25 - good for mobile monitoring, but it hurts my ears after 30 minutes to an hour. So I guess, monitoring headphones are made for a specific purpose and not just pleasure. Sony 7506 is great for listening out for distorion/peaks/hiss/sibilance you see, but I'd rather listen to a telephone for music. I don't know why, but I often get an accurate feel for a headphone pretty quickly. Maybe because I use so many. I also adjust for their weaknesses quite fast but for my own listening pleasure, it has to offer more than simple accuracy; which I know sounds probably a bit odd. I think Frans would understand what I mean by that since he knows the weaknesses of all of his headphones (like me) and accepts them as part of their signature rather than look for a holy grail. The D2000 is closer to what is ideal for me to entertain but I could also use it to monitor. (For the first time - both in one) I think Frans knows my tastes, since he did mention the D2000 to me some time back as well as review the K550 for me from graphs. I suspect I'd like that too, but it wouldn't have the bass presence that this one has. Maybe the K601 is more 'neutral' whatever that means but this one is really musical with the bonus of detail. What will appear next year eh?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2012 15:50:17 GMT
Mike, the Wall is sublime through these!! 'Don't Leave me Now' is like an agonising musical scream; especially with the wailing guitar section. The heavy breathing is so plain that you can easily hear which is in and which is out!! The drums really sound like big, big speakers. You can also hear what they're saying on the telephone when there's a call from America in one of the tracks before where the guy keeps hanging up. Also the radio excerpt at the start of 'Is There Anybody Out There' is plain as daylight. I thought I'd give a listen myself after advising you to listen to it!!! God it's a miserable piece of music ....... On second thoughts, maybe you should listen to Genesis.
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Post by elysion on Apr 7, 2012 18:55:47 GMT
I've had the same problem with them. But they've improved since because the pressure was loosing up over time. I've had to use them very often (always when I'm on the road) to achieve that. I've found them horrible in new condition. My velours earpads have also collapsed somewhat, this has also helped. I guess the condition of my HD25/1-II earpads is also a result of my use: I've used them always outdoors, regardless of the weather. I did not care if it was raining, during a thunderstorm or even in blizzard style weather. The earpads have been wet quite often, but that didn't affect the functionality at all. These 'phones are simply indestructible. Maybe a good idea to wash the earpads a few times to get the same effect. I use these 'phones mainly on the road, mostly with an iPod Touch and a Neco Portable V2, which is IMO a very good combo.
I guess the particular size of a head is also a limiting factor. It's really possible that someone has just a too big head for them. Perhaps it would be a nice idea to combine the earcups of the HD25-1/II's with parts of other headphones to avoid that.
Back to the AH-D2000's: What impresses my beside of your description of the sound signature is simply their look. Damn, these 'phones are looking good! They have also round earcups which are almost a guarantee for good comfort. To me, closed-back 'phones that don't sound "closed" are very promising. Half-open is IMO a really good way to go (DT 990 Pro's are also referred to be half-open).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2012 19:11:51 GMT
They may appear to be very robust looking. In reality there are problems with the hinges that break easily. Something to keep in mind. Comfort, SQ and finish is very high quality. The much more expensive D5000 and D7000 are slightly different (more velvetty in the highs and slightly different in the lows) The other Denons could not impress me. Only D1001, D2000, 5000 and 7000 as Foster made. D1001 has a different size driver. The D1001 (Creative Aurvana Live) though a nice listen don't come close to the other 3. Well worth 200 Euros, for E 400.- I would also look elsewhere. VFM wise the 5000 and 7000 are not so good. a marginal improvement over D2000 IMO SQ wise. For the D7000 price I would buy an ortho. recognise these ? www.foster.co.jp/en_products/headphones/443741.html (D1001) www.foster.co.jp/en_products/headphones/n443742.html (D2000) www.foster.co.jp/en_products/headphones/n448498.html (D5000) D7000 is a woody D5000 in essence.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2012 19:26:17 GMT
I've had HD25's for years Christian. I only use them for portable work stuff so only for short periods. That's what put me off the Beyer DT1350's. I have no issue with the sound of them. In reality there are problems with the hinges that break easily. Something to keep in mind.I've read about this, Frans. It looks as though it could go if stretched I guess. It's just a metal pin that's off centre to hold the cups in place. I'm not sure what those guys have done to weaken it and how it stays in place. Great pity if that's a weak point. Let's see how long mine keeps going!! Who sells the Fosters? I can't find them for sale anywhere. Looking at the graphs as well, Frans, don't the 1350's go down low? They just keep going down!! The Denon is seriously good sounding. I listened to 'The Wall' today and it is really moving via these headphones. The sheer whack in the bass just adds to the large scale of it and drums sound superb. Another odd thing is that the dynamics seem to be far greater than other headphones. They seem to go between loud and soft, moreso, so that louds can be very loud and softs seem to recede right back. I have no idea why this would be but the dynamic range seems to have grown. I get bigger dynamics than on the Senn HD650. 'The Wall' has large dynamic contrasts in it and I kind of felt the need for an AGC almost because the dynamic range seemed so large. The Denons have come as a big surprise to me and I personally think that they could be better than an HD650 in terms of clarity, timbre and dynamics. I think once I have become really accustomed to their sound, many of my other headphones will seem bland by comparison. I've always assumed the HD650 to be a good standard reference headphone and it kind of feels odd to say that I think it's been trumped. I've always felt that Sennheiser represented good value for sound but the Denons have moved my expectations if I'm honest. I know it's early days, but I can hear a good sound when it's there and I had no particular allegiance or feelings about them until I heard them. To me, they are worth the normal price of £299 and are a steal at £180. They are a step ahead of the competition imo and once you've heard them properly with familiar equipment, you realise just how much they do for music. I think the only step after this is orthos as Frans has found. I'm still curious about the AT1000 and 5000 series but knowing the AT type of sound quite well, I can't see the bass doing much better than these. They've also pointed out to me at least, the importance of the bass and its harmonics in the way that we hear music. It's like a K701 type resolution with big bass. You can't replicate it on the AKG's either. I know I talk a lot, but this one has hit me big time and opened my ears much more to a more professional sounding home setup that meets what I feel is an 'expectation' in pro gear without the necessity of big fat amps to power it or the necessity to spend a huge amount of money. A Neco portable powers them with ease. £180 is the current price in some places in the UK and just like the K601 at £130, they are a bargain, Christian.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 7, 2012 20:43:12 GMT
Mike, the Wall is sublime through these!! 'Don't Leave me Now' is like an agonising musical scream; especially with the wailing guitar section. The heavy breathing is so plain that you can easily hear which is in and which is out!! The drums really sound like big, big speakers. You can also hear what they're saying on the telephone when there's a call from America in one of the tracks before where the guy keeps hanging up. Also the radio excerpt at the start of 'Is There Anybody Out There' is plain as daylight. I thought I'd give a listen myself after advising you to listen to it!!! God it's a miserable piece of music ....... On second thoughts, maybe you should listen to Genesis. Actually, Ian, albums like the wall cheer me up when I'm a bit down... I get right into it and zone in on the vibes. Gonna have a listen in a while through Panda and HD-250ll. That's 34 hours now, no communication between us at all... I'm finding it pretty hard going and want to phone her but I KNOW she won't answer so best to stick to the plan. I know she'll phone me when her mood changes and THAT will be the hard one.... Normally I would answer, she would apologise and I would accept the apology... this time I'm not going to answer.... I don't see that as being childish, I can't go on like this so it has to stop DEAD in it's tracks. She'll probably think I hate her or something, that's not true.... I love her BUT I also love myself and cannot go on like this... they say love is blind, and it is... I thought she would change but she's got worse... the more she opens up to me the deeper I become embroiled in her fears and emotions... it's more like a nightmare. "Welcome to my nightmare" is NOT how it should be (from day one) it should be love, kisses, good times (boogie), fun, happiness, laughter... I know that, that's what I want to give, that's how I feel but she is on another planet / another dimension and in a world of her own. Quite sad really but "looks" count for nothing when the woman you are madly attracted to turns out to be as mad as a March hare
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2012 21:15:39 GMT
Me too, Mike. They take you on a kind of 'thought' journey. Whacked out 'The Wall' nice and loud this afternoon. Great album. I like old misery guts a lot - Rager Waters. What makes me laugh is the sleeve to the Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking was censored by a download company and they put a big square around her butt!! Stick to it, Mike. Even if she comes back and you forgive again then you have control and not her. Space between couples can be quite healthy imo. I can't stand it when they're stuck like glue - think, eat, sleep the same. Was it Woody Allen who's wife lived across the road? Sounds good to me!!!
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 8, 2012 1:40:08 GMT
What will appear next year eh? Obviously, Ortho or Ribbon (if available)! Btw, can I infer that the Denon you have is the top dynamic HP in your pile wrt to Live sound?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 7:59:21 GMT
I guess it depends what you mean by 'top', Chong. With regards to headphones, I have always tended to work to a limit (in my head) of around £200 to £250. Going further than that only brings minor differences imo. I used to have some Stax headphones which were way above in terms of quality, I guess, but guess what - I didn't like them!!! They cost a lot too. I changed them for a Senn HD650 and a Slee Solo!! Totally different sound. To me, the Denon was a surprise. I've always associated them with budget stuff if I'm honest. They made a rather nice budget amp (a black one) that I remember was good and was a nice alternative to the old NAD 3020 series which were also extremely good. (A bit soft but very good) The Denon amp was heavier sounding and that heavy sound was reflected in their earbuds - I had some of those and they were hefty to say the least. Then I had another earbud from them which was better but it did have quite a 'u' curve that became tiring. So, to me, Denon was a kind of 'budget', woolly sounding make in comparison to my Naim stuff at that time. I found the headphones by accident and I guess I'm similar to Mike in that the price isn't always the indicator of quality. I tend to wander around and try things and that's what happened with the Denons. I hated the timbre in the shop but I loved the detail. (That's how I felt about the Sony 7506 actually) Getting it home, retained the detail, but the timbre took off as well. Tonally, the Denon is one of my best, I think. Personally, I think it's better than the HD650 but many would argue it's not. It's way better imo than the DT880 but again, many would say not and get offended!!! So what is the best? In terms of money, no it's not my best. In terms of sound, it's very close. I think it is. I also use headphones like tools for the job. To me, I don't care whether it's a Superlux 681 or a Senn 650 or a Stax or an Orpheus. As long as it plays music, I really don't care about the value. I change them according to what I'm doing. Even the Fanny Wang headphones have their use on an Ipod. That's what they were designed for. Not the best quality but try listening to a crappy download on them - they make the best of a bad job. Then play a crappy download on an Orpheus - they sound shite. In which case, the Fanny Wangs do a better job. Most guys on this site are more concerned with 'all round' listening. One headphone doing a good job for whatever. For me - I choose the headphone for the task and amp more I guess. Pure listening pleasure and work demands a different thing from a headphone. Many assume that a headphone that is used by a pro is the best one. Not the case. They are designed for specific purposes and often do one thing very well and something else really badly. For instance, the DT150 isn't the best of headphones. However, good isolation, reasonable imaging, fantastic comfort, ability to play extremely loud (like a speaker for monitoring), toughness (They pass my famous sit test), ability to change cable quickly, extremely cheap, (Cheaper than you think for studios) makes them ideal. However, for home they are muffled and not very extended and a bit boomy on home amps. So not ideal for home really. (The BBC puzzle me though with DT770's) I'm aware that most on RG listen for pleasure and are looking for a headphone that portrays music, whether it's a top down sound or a bottom up sound. That doesn't matter. The D2000 portrays music really well, regardless of price. (Most home headphones are more expensive than studio ones!!!!) I couldn't use one to work with though. Reasons: Cable is too snake like and doesn't come off. There is a possible weakness on the cup that Frans mentioned. They're too expensive for a studio to invest in. They'd soon look nasty and scratched. Repairs could be expensive. However, they are good to monitor what home listeners would be hearing on a good set up on say, a final mix. Not to mix with, but to monitor how a product would be heard by consumers. So they're not the be all and end all of headphones, but they play music extraordinarily well. I've given up looking for a perfect headphone and have become a headphone tart. I'll use whatever does the job - I'm not a snob about hi fi!!!
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 8, 2012 12:39:43 GMT
Hi Ian, Perhaps I'm not being clear enough there. So I better define the "specs" for what I'm asking and I'm sure will be of high interest for all here at RG too. SPECS1) For High Sound Qualty Usage At Home. 2) How Far Away From The Live Feed? 3) Irregardless of Price. 4) What You have At PRESENT Irregardless Of Price. If You Have A Stax, Please Put That In For Ranking Too. But It Seemed The Stax Had Already Wacked The Denon From Your Statements. I'm Not Surprise, Btw. 5) Overall Best For All Sorts Of Music Genres? 6) Overall Best Physical Quality In terms Of Construction And Feel. 7) Bonus Will Be The Sit Test But Obviously Not Needed. Anyone can chime in if I had missed any good points. So the named Denon top of your current HP stash?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 14:39:21 GMT
For home use, I'd say yes!
It has a full bass with higher resolution (imo) than the Senn HD650. Very good mids for a closed headphone.
I didn't like the Stax. For me, it was sterile. I changed it for an HD650 and a $lee Solo. However, I couldn't sit with that either. It was too dull in the top end for me.
I think toughest headphone is Beyer DT150 or DT770. I wouldn't sit on the Denons because of the issue written about and mentioned by Frans here. The screw holding the cups could be a weak area in the build. I can see where it is.
Sound wise, I don't have any issue with the Denons at all. They are very revealing with the bonus of a good amount of strong bass.
I compared the DT770 with it today (since they are both closed) and the DT770 seems to have less in the mids and a less 'tuneful' bass. The treble is also a bit more steely than the Denons.
However, the Beyers do give the feeling of a wide space and the Denons are a little more closed in. The Denons sound like they're closer to the musicians and the Beyers a bit further back. The Beyers seem a bit cooler in sound as well.
I do think the Denons are 'special'. They are an unusual headphone being (semi) closed and are one of the most musical headphones I've heard irrespective of price.
I'm interested in how the Denon compares with Senn 800 or PS1.
So
1) For High Sound Qualty Usage At Home. Denon - Excellent quality. One of the best, if not the best I have.
2) How Far Away From The Live Feed? Denon - Slightly warmer than the feed.
3) Irregardless of Price. Well, I don't like the Stax so for me, Denons.
4) What You have At PRESENT Irregardless Of Price. If You Have A Stax, Please Put That In For Ranking Too. But It Seemed The Stax Had Already Wacked The Denon From Your Statements. I'm Not Surprise, Btw.
For musical enjoyment: 1. Denon 2. Senn HD650 3. Beyer dt990 or Senn 250II
For musical Surgery 1. K701 2. K601 3. Denon
The other headphones that I have (there are many), I regard them as lower quality although they are very good value in themselves.
Those ones listed are top of the pile I guess.
5) Overall Best For All Sorts Of Music Genres? 1. Denon 2. Senn HD650
6) Overall Best Physical Quality In terms Of Construction And Feel. 1. DT150 2. DT770 3. M50
However, most comfortable.... 1. DT150 2. DT770 3. Denon 4. M50
(The Denon pads are really cushy but are oval shaped and I could see them pushing on peoples' ears.
7) Bonus Will Be The Sit Test But Obviously Not Needed. 1. DT150 - regularly sat on and thrown.
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Post by pete on Apr 8, 2012 15:33:41 GMT
Great posts on here, I never realised the Denons had such large cups, I like that!
Seriously thinkin about getting these or the K550's,
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Post by pete on Apr 8, 2012 15:35:37 GMT
Forgot to say, are the recessed mids on the D2000 really as bad as I read on other forums? people are saying they are quite recessed which does worry me, but then again some can exaggerate a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 16:33:16 GMT
Forgot to say, are the recessed mids on the D2000 really as bad as I read on other forums? people are saying they are quite recessed which does worry me, but then again some can exaggerate a lot. Hi Pete. Personally, I don't find the mids a problem at all. The mids are way worse on the DT770 for instance. It's a common problem with closed headphones but I really think that it's been overstated on other forums. I've seen that as well. It's pretty even handed with a big, fruity bass. Another thing I've seen is that it lacks bass. Well, I don't understand that one - it's deep and seriously fruit laden!!! The earcups themselves are large but the pads are oval so I think some could find them a bit cramped, although I don't. Depends on the size of your lugs! It's been quite a surprise for me because I've never considered a Denon as a serious headphone, but I could live with this on its own. Good all rounder.
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 9, 2012 0:11:42 GMT
Thanks Ian, So Denon AHD2000 can be declared the OVERALL winner in your HP stash based on your listening prowness and HOME use. Btw, what's a PS1? Grado PS1000?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2012 7:32:31 GMT
Sorry, yes a ps1000.
It is a very good all rounder.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 9, 2012 9:05:50 GMT
Are we talking fresh fruit or a we talking more a basket of sultanas, figs, dates and other exotic dried fruits?
There is a difference, is it fruity, fresh and acidic or is it fruity in a rich, brewed, intense flavour filled, aromatic, malty, figgy type of way?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 9, 2012 9:09:02 GMT
Could also be fruity in a "ooh err matron!" type way. Nice pair of melons etc.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2012 10:04:14 GMT
Fruity with a tang of fermentation!! It has a dirty edge to it. Like a slightly over-ripe melon smacking you on the forhead leaving an aftertaste of beer and hops type bass.
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 9, 2012 12:06:23 GMT
Sorry, yes a ps1000. It is a very good all rounder. Heh, heh, heh ........... Mickey? Ok, telepathy sent as too far away! For you, send him a smoke signal instead. In the middle of the last century, man!
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 9, 2012 12:10:34 GMT
Fruity with a tang of fermentation!! It has a dirty edge to it. Like a slightly over-ripe melon smacking you on the forhead leaving an aftertaste of beer and hops type bass. Wow, the latest hifi jargons fresh out from RG. What will Hifi News and Stereophile think now?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2012 13:07:26 GMT
Hey, they pay me and I'm available!! ;D
I've been comparing the DT770 pro with it today. The bass is kind of similar in quantity but the D2000 lets you hear further into bass notes. It's kind of more 'tuned'.
The treble is way better than the DT770 which in comparison sounds a bit steely. The Denon sounds a lot sweeter. The Beyer has a harder sound.
One think the DT770 does well though - it does have a sense of 'big' space in its sound but I think the mids are slightly more recessed.
So if you like the hard hitting bass of the DT770 but want it more tuneful, the Denon does it with a more refined sounding treble too.
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Post by UzminiNu on Apr 9, 2012 23:02:41 GMT
Has anybody experience with the Audio Technica A-Series closed headphones comparing to the D2000? I got recently a AT A500 and was in love instantly. Perfectly fit for my melon. The most comfortable headphones i ever had! They very easy to drive. From a smartphone plenty of loudness, the bass feels full bodied.Very entertaining signature. So i ordered the AT A900. How are the differences, comfort, sound?
I know that material quality of the big Denon's are questionable. The plastic is brittle. Even the D1100 with a completely different design are suffering from poor plastic quality.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2012 23:30:37 GMT
I have the a500 and a900. 900 is better. Clean sounding. Sweet treble and a clear bass. Not a lot of quantity of bass and doesn't go that deep (it doesn't in the a500 either) but a nice headphone.
My favourite closed are Denons (half closed), Senn HD250II, Beyer DT770, AT M50 and the AT a900.
All quite strong in the bass except the a900 which is a 'cleaner' type of sound.
I found the a500 a little bit 'honky' in the mids. I think I was aware of cup reflections - I rarely use them now.
Comfort of the AT's is superb. Like a lovely soft pillow. You'll really like the a900 if you liked the a500. It is better.
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