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Post by Alberto01 on Apr 11, 2012 23:00:35 GMT
Pink Floyd:
What is better on the headphone amplifier Indeed G3 over the headphone amplifier Project Sunrise (PS)? What is better on the PS over the Indeed G3? What is the same on both?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 12, 2012 7:46:53 GMT
Pink Floyd: What is better on the headphone amplifier Indeed G3 over the headphone amplifier Project Sunrise (PS)? What is better on the PS over the Indeed G3? What is the same on both? Hi Alberto, Frans (solderdude) is the man who will give you the definitive answer as he designed the Project Sunrise as a means of improving on the G3. I, personally, think the Project Sunrise is the better amp as it is better quality, sounds better and has more "options".... I hope Frans will be along to explain the differences. Mike.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 8:10:33 GMT
The G3 has the (on/off switcheable) loudness/contour possibility. The Sunrise-II has different output resistance settings/separate heater power supply/input cap that can be bypassed and different quality parts/PCB. Tube rolling is much easier as you don't have to take it apart or use a voltmeter. technical support and documentation differs.
I have never heard the G3 and have not been able to compare it electrically (measurements) or by ear so cannot tell which is better for your hearing.
There is also a price difference which may let you decide to prefer one over the other.
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Post by Alberto01 on Apr 12, 2012 17:46:49 GMT
Thank you Mike and Frans!
I will be more specific.
1) SOUND QUALITY
What is better in the sound of the Project Sunrise over the G3 and viceversa? How much better is it? You can give ratings (i.e. 9.0, 9.5, 8.9) if that makes it easier for you.
2) TEMPERATURE
Is there a noticeable difference of one over the other regarding working temperature under the same working conditions (same source, headphones, volume) or similar conditions or they are about the same?
Thank you, again.
Regards,
Alberto
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XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 12, 2012 19:36:22 GMT
Thank you Mike and Frans! I will be more specific. 1) SOUND QUALITY What is better in the sound of the Project Sunrise over the G3 and viceversa? How much better is it? You can give ratings (i.e. 9.0, 9.5, 8.9) if that makes it easier for you. 2) TEMPERATURE Is there a noticeable difference of one over the other regarding working temperature under the same working conditions (same source, headphones, volume) or similar conditions or they are about the same? Thank you, again. Regards, Alberto As said, the Sunrise is an improved G3. So all the defects and limitations had been looked into by Frans and uprated. Also, the Sunrise uses better parts although not super boutique due to profit consideration. So the Sunrise SHOULD sound better than the G3. It's only lacking in power by my standard although I have not heard a Sunrise. If it's at least 1/2 W or more at 600 ohms, it will be a no brainer for me. That's why I have a MF X-Can V2 now. Thanks to Frans, of course. Btw, my standard in Hifi is the free wheeling no liimits Americana std. You could be more accomodating if not.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 20:42:52 GMT
The Sunrise was a fully modded G2 with some extra's and better parts. The Sunrise has been replaced by the Sunrise-II which is somewhat more powerfull and has more extra's. Info is here: rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=b&action=display&thread=7968The Xcan is a completely different type of hybrid. This is more like a normal solid state amp where the input FET's are replaced by tubes. It has overall feedback and a 'hint' of tube sound. The Bavo/Sunrise/HA10 e.t.c. are non feedback triode amplified and single ended class-A output with a much 'warmer' sound because of it. All the pleasant tubeness is present. The G3 is a G2 with an extra load resistor replaced by a second LM317 currentsource and a loudness volume control added. It still has some crosstalk distortion and non linear behavior but not nearly as much as the G2. Then again the Sunrise doesn't have that affliction at all. The temperature of both amps is HOT but the Sunrise can be easily altered to run much cooler if needed. The G2/G3 cannot because the heaters are part of the output stage (which is cheaper but has some negative sides as well) Subjective differences are not my thing and personal and depend on the headphone used. Technically and build quality the Sunrise(II) is superior. Pricewise the G3 has the advantage.
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Post by Alberto01 on Apr 12, 2012 21:02:12 GMT
Thank you Frans!
"The temperature of both amps is HOT but the Sunrise can be easily altered to run much cooler if needed. The G2/G3 cannot because the heaters are part of the output stage (which is cheaper but has some negative sides as well)"
How hot do they get?
Do the base and cover plates (so to speak) get hot also?
How can the Sunrise be altered to run much cooler?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 5:21:30 GMT
Temperatures measured on the heat sinks (in 25oC surrounding temp) were just below 50oC with double stacked heatsinks. The G3 I don't have but the G2 easily reached 60oC
The bias current can be made smaller and an extra heatsink can be placed on top of the other one (heatsink compound needed). There is a limit though.
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Post by Alberto01 on Apr 15, 2012 1:35:04 GMT
Pink Floyd:
What is better in the sound quality of the G3 as compared to the PS and vice versa? What is the same on both?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2012 7:13:00 GMT
Pink Floyd: What is better in the sound quality of the G3 as compared to the PS and vice versa? What is the same on both? see reply #51
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Post by pedromreis on May 12, 2012 12:17:49 GMT
Hi.
Would be possible or necessary to apply the G2 mods to G3?
Thanks!
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Post by LuK on Jun 6, 2012 14:34:23 GMT
Hy guys, I'm trying to biasing one JAN/NOS 6922 tube, but with the fully closed trimmers can not exceed 12.4 volts. Any suggestions? Thx, bye.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 14:58:39 GMT
You will need to change the resistor in the anode CCS. Requires desoldering and soldering.
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Post by LuK on Jun 6, 2012 16:57:09 GMT
Thanks Solderdude, you could tell me what is the resistance to change and the value that you recommend? Thank you very much. Bye.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 17:14:28 GMT
R2 and 12,
just behind the tube between the heatsinks.
First try to solder to resistors of say 4k7 or 5k6 in parallel to the 3k3 resistors that are in there. See if you can get it to adjust properly in that situation.
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Post by LuK on Jun 6, 2012 20:03:43 GMT
Great solderdude, I've solved with two 2k2 resistors. Thanks for the perfect tip.
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Post by LuK on Jun 9, 2012 10:06:15 GMT
I have e doubt... Is it possible use an ECC86 tube with G3?
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Post by LuK on Jun 22, 2012 9:47:47 GMT
I have e doubt... Is it possible use an ECC86 tube with G3? After contacting Peter (Indeed), I've got a wonderful NOS/NIB ECC86 Telefunken (low-voltage version of the great ECC83) and can confirm that not only works perfectly with the G3, but, in my honest opinion, this tube is the best you can use with our little gem (for the low plate voltage required). For now, I set the bias to 12.5 volts (standard value shown in the datasheet for the plate voltage). Should you think raise it, however, to 15.5 v.? In any case, the sound is to be extraordinary, far superior to all other tubes tested by me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2012 10:17:19 GMT
The ECC86 is a low(er) voltage version of the ECC88 (not the ECC83) both ECC86 and ECC88 are framegrids, ECC83 is not. Both ECC88 and 86 have 6V heaters, ECC83 is 12V Both ECC86 and 88 are low voltage type, ECC83 is high voltage type.
The 6.3V, 12.6V and 25V anode voltages in the datasheet are the voltages of the batteries available in those days for radio (car radio e.t.c.) and are not optimal operation points.
The G3, (like the others) should have their bias voltage set to around 15.5V when IRF type FET's are used and 13.5V when IRL types are used. The optimal bias voltage is determined by the amplifier design and it's operating point to obtain symetrical clipping.
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Post by LuK on Jun 22, 2012 14:46:31 GMT
Solder Thanks, you are absolutely right, I mistyped the tube name. Regarding the bias, I'll go set it up properly.
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Post by LuK on Jun 26, 2012 22:30:25 GMT
During a biasing session, I must have inadvertently caused a short circuit with the tester, and now the G3 does not work anymore. It just illuminates the blue LED (below the tube), but not the red or the tube filament. What should I check?
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Post by skaffen on Jul 26, 2012 3:33:52 GMT
Hi
The volume pot on my G3 is noisy. Can anyone suggest a good quality pot to replace it ?
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Post by poorbast on Oct 5, 2012 0:33:14 GMT
My pot is noisy too. It also jumps randomly and will drop a channel(I'm assuming the pot is the culprit but maybe not). I've grounded it which helped a little but it's still noisy. I'm adjusting the bias now, one channel seemed to quite a bit off from the other. I've got this running as a preamp into a Carver m-1.0t and some craigslist 901s I refoamed. Every time it hiccups it startles the hell out of me.
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Post by 99birdy on Oct 6, 2012 3:59:15 GMT
Hey guys just wanted to say I registered just to talk about these ebay amps here. I've been considering the Indeed G3 for a couple weeks now, but finding comparisons and reviews is difficult. Trying to compare them to other ebay amps is even more difficult. Appreciate all the info on here. I have some DT 880 pros (250ohm) I'd like to match an amp to. I feel it needs alot more warmth in the mid's so that's what i'm thinking tubes will help the most. Is the G3 going to be my best bang for the buck? I also looked briefly at the HiFiMan EF2A as a more mainstream retail item. Anyone know how those compare? Also how would this G3 compare to some of those other ebay amps with 2 or 3 tube amps on them? is more better or not really, i'm new to whole scene so bare with me. This one for example. www.ebay.com/itm/320597932493It sure looks pretty anyway. Anything similar to that one worth comparing? Or stick to Indeed products? I do realize it's an Indeed thread though. Just want to know all my options first.. thanks everyone. Also sunshine 2 at a cost of $260 after shipping plus build, too much for me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2012 6:35:40 GMT
If you like the idea behind the Indeed products, and can afford a little more, why not take a look at the Aune DAC/HA as linked to in the news header at the top of the screen ? It has a solid state amplifier section , but the tube in the DAC section gives it that valve "flavour" It's also more versatile, and judging by the posted photos and replies, it is also quite attractive. Alex
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