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Post by krisno on Dec 17, 2007 12:40:36 GMT
Hello guys...
Long time no speak...
I just run a 30hours with the X-Can V3, Little Pinkie v3i and AKG K701...
1: On most songs the setup sounds 'OK'. I get 'crackles' on some songs in the AKG's. I dunno what is causing this.... its kinda sharp and very annoying. On the Eagles - heartbreak hotel for instance..
2) I dunno how the thing sounds with the standard wallmart vs Little Pinkie as I never tried the walmart at all. The Little Pinkie is very 'light weight', is there really a powerfull PSU in it ? :-D
3) The mid's are very good on this setup, vocal etc..... Really 'alive'. Probably caused by the tubes.... But still its little harsh, the tubes might get better when 'run-in'? More so, than pure transistor amps?
But this crackling is kinda not good, can it be the psu? the tubes can't be faulty all ready can it?
I am using a CL Labs soundcard as audiosource for the moment, yes I know its 'crap', but still, the 'recording' of the song is still the weak link in this setup..
I cannot hear that much of a 'tube' sound yet.... but it sounds nice and 'livly'..
Kris
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Post by krisno on Dec 17, 2007 13:13:31 GMT
and yes, the weakpart of this system is the 'bass'. There is not much except in really bass-heavy songs.
I am suprised really that this £800 system does not sound better than it does, but well, maybe I am spoiled with 2 channel Krell stereo... hehe. Or maybe you 'break-in' guys are right, that this system will be better with time...
Does 'tubes' in general need break-in to sound it's best?
Btw, I never used tubes, and I notice it's flaws...
1: (maybe the tubes is why there is so little bass)
2): When I turn OFF the little pinkie, the system still keeps on playing, never noticed that before.... probably because the current still stays 'in the tube' for a while....?? any thoughts?
3) There is some distortion here, crackling, dunno what is causing this, as mentioned above.... tube?
4) If i turn on the tubes, and start playing immediatly, just 1 channel is functioning etc.... it seems the tubes need alot of warmup time.
Thanks
Kriss
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 17, 2007 15:11:54 GMT
Are you getting this crackling out of both left and right cans? Is the sound cards gain out set too high? Are you using the ASIO drivers for your Soundcard?
Apart from the little Pinkie is the V3 stock regarding parts? The tubes will take a few minutes to work, the heaters need time to stabilize
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Post by krisno on Dec 17, 2007 15:21:05 GMT
The guys at headroom recommend to have the 'soundcard' volum (and ipod's) on MAX volume when coupled to an amp... I checked if the gain, its the same even at lower volumes... so it's not the soundcard.
Can I have manged to 'blow' the AKG's 701 allready?? I have never put the volume dail above 12o clock...
I get clicking on both channels.
The V3 is stock and brand new....
The AKG's much be very lightweight driven. Actually I can't hear much difference on soundcard direct into my akg's and with the amp, except the amp is alot 'smoother' because of the tubes.... So well, glad I got a 'tube' amp and not a solid state, since I spend the money on it...
But I cannot have blown the AKG's with volume just a little painful to my ears, they should handle heavier load than that?
I dunno... its only on like every 3rd song i hear crackling.... I think other people have crackles as well on the AKG's?
Btw, does the tube's make 'noise'.. the amp is not quiet at alot of gain, even if disconnected from the soundcard output??
But well, tubes are a bit 'complicated' but the sound is more lush, I can agree on that.... Will 'burn' in help... the 'heater' will stabilize, what you mean?
Well thanks!!
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 17, 2007 15:21:12 GMT
Forgot to ask, are your AKG K701's new? if so these things take weeks of running in, they sound quite bright and strained when new. Also remember you can't expect to get the sort of bass you get out of open backed cans as you do with a full sized hi-fi rig
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 17, 2007 15:37:33 GMT
I asked about the sound card so its one thing we can eliminate causing the problem I doubt very much you have blown the AKG's, this is a guess but could the X-can be struggling to drive these cans? I know the K701's are low impedance but I've read they are quite hard to drive, I maybe totally wrong as I have not tested an X-can with K701's. Regarding the heaters, yes these do need time, if you think about it heater is acually what they do, valves tend to sound quite thin and harsh at first switch on, if your interested theres papers that explain how these things work, I won't go writing and repeating it on here
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 17, 2007 15:38:53 GMT
I have AKG K701's and have no crackles
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Post by krisno on Dec 18, 2007 9:53:27 GMT
I just bought a new cd.. Tom McRae ... 'crackles'... no crackling on latest Clark Terry CD. But rock 'crackles' in some places, it is REALLY heard. The crackling is loud... it's because its not 'broken' in? I don't think this 'error' can be corrected....
'Screech and crackles' on exactly the same places on the different recordings......
Very strange indeed. I got a powerful computer, i tried 2 different soundcards(one pcmcia, and one built in), and same 'error'. I thought it might be the mp3 compression rutines, but this brand new Tom McRae CD , its full quality..... and it has same problems.
The AKG's are almost brand new yes... it's amazing if the AKG suck so much in the beginning. hmm... strange
I would presume the x-can v3 was a good enough amp to drive the akg even if they are 'difficult'.
The 'crackles'/'screeching' are also there if I plug the AKG's straight into computer and SKIP THE AMP! I adjusted the volume on the soundcard and still same error, so this must be the AKG's really..
K
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 10:16:10 GMT
"The 'crackles'/'screeching' are also there if I plug the AKG's straight into computer and SKIP THE AMP! I adjusted the volume on the soundcard and still same error, so this must be the AKG's really.."
My money would be on an explanation like Miguel's. Also, go to "My Computer"-Control Panel-Sounds and Audio Devices-Sounds -Sound Scheme, then No Sounds-"Save As". See if this helps. SandyK
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 18, 2007 11:23:36 GMT
The AKG's are almost brand new yes... it's amazing if the AKG suck so much in the beginning. hmm... strange Not really, they need time to loosen up, hi-fi speakers are the same. My AKG's sounded quite poor when new so I played a test and burn in cd on repeat and left it running 24/7 using an old cdp. Surely you have another source you can try? this at least will tell you if its the AKG's or the PC. Certainly try what Miguel and SandyK suggests, they both know more about pc's than me
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Post by leo on Dec 18, 2007 11:29:40 GMT
I have a pair of long phono leads so will try feeding my sound cards output into the hi-fi, just out of interest
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Post by krisno on Dec 18, 2007 13:37:31 GMT
This has nothing to do with CPU power, priority, or no sounds in windows control panel. I allready have that btw.
It is some songs, specially rock, special frequency spectrum's, the AKG makes 'schreech' 'crackles' sounds. It is not something subtle, and it sounds very bad/hard on the ears..... Even on just normal vocal. It sounds kinda like if you had a loose membrane and running 'bass' on it. But its on 'both' sides, even on low volume, so there is something else wrong here...
Maybe they need to burn in, but AKG say they measure no difference on the transducer. This notable 'crackles' I am sure would be meassured... It's strange its even with such low volumes...
This is specially bad on rock etc---
f**k sake.
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Post by krisno on Dec 18, 2007 13:58:48 GMT
LISTEN UP ;D
I changed source, I connected a cheap grundig cdplayer as source, bypassing the computer. I heard no crackles/slamming/schreezing..
Strange, I tried with 2 soundcards on the computer..
ASIO drivers might help. Presumable its the XP KMixer which cannot be disabled. Vista is a far superior OS for HIFI!
Anyways, this is not 'subtle' at all, meaning , I NEED TO GET THE MF X-DAC v3! This will take care of the source!
I will buy one used, anyone want to sell me one?
BTW: An honest opinion, is it worth getting the little pinkie v3i also for the X-DAC V3. Some people say its not big difference, others say its 'huge'. I rather save some money atleast.
Kristian
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Post by krisno on Dec 18, 2007 14:21:28 GMT
By the way, I am kinda dissapointed regarding headphones. It is not that 'extreme' revelation I thought it would be, after reading some at www.head-fi.org. Is this mainly because I am lacking the DAC? Will the DAC increase the spaciness and bass of the system? Transparancy etc.... Will DAC help on all these factors? I mean, some jazz recordings, like Clark Terry for Reference Recordings, and Miles Dives, sound the best I have ever heard almost. But other than that, its nothing 'extreme'. But this is because I lack the DAC, or what you guys think? Even with the DAC it's a 'cheap' stereo, so I can afford that one..... Tube burn-in over time might help also. Secondly, is it possible to blow-up the 701 using the X-Can v3? Wonder when K801 will be released.... that will be one to get! Maybe they can somewhat increase the bass, as in the sennheiser 650. It has alot more bass. Kris ! Thankx guys... please write if you have a x-dac you want to sell. I live in scandinavia.
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Post by toad on Dec 18, 2007 19:27:23 GMT
By the way, I am kinda dissapointed regarding headphones. It is not that 'extreme' revelation I thought it would be It seems to me that something isn't quite right somewhere in your system. Most likely the source. I'm no expert having only got seriously into headphones earlier this year but I can honestly say the bang for buck sound for pound is awesome on headphones. My CMoy/Panasonic portable CD plyer/PX-100 combo has literally caused jaws to drop on a couple of colleagues and has generated comments such as. "Wow it sounds like it's coming from over there." "It's like surround sound" "It's loud but you can hear everything." These are obviously not HiFi nuts so it was probably the first time they had ever heard a decent soundstage. The point is, my Solo/HD595 runs rings around the portable combo and has me grinning from ear to ear so something just doesn't seem right to me with your gear, especially as you have fine headphones like the K701. The source seems most likely to be the weak point. IMHO
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 20:17:03 GMT
Krisno FWIW, I am running XP on an Intel Core 2 Duo PC. I have a Creative X-FI Extreme Music soundcard , which is more entry level in that range. I have absolutely no problems with analogue out to a Graham Slee "Voyager" using Sony Headphones (AT W1000 in a week or so) the sound is very high quality. I did however replace the card's generic stereo IC with a SM OPA2134 for even better results.You do not need to use USB DACs etc to get great results from a quality soundcard. Other cards, such as the now hard to get Terratec will also give great results with analogue out into a decent headphone amplifier.
SandyK
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Post by krisno on Dec 18, 2007 20:25:43 GMT
But guys ! What is wrong here? The SB Audigy 2 is brand new, PCMCIA. I am running Win XP 64 ! , maybe thats why?... I hear 'screetching' on both soundcards(SoundMax built in, and the pcmcia), even on top notch CD recordings (latest 2007 Tom McRae CD). I have never experienced this in my life... I will check for the Terratec, but PCMCIA probably suck. A external USB soundcard is better, but why the heck then don't get a USB Dac instead. Hmm.... Any cheap USB dac's out there that you people know of?? But well, the MF X-DAC v3 is nice stuff, and can run on optical out on the creative card. But still, i am not able to understand the error...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 20:58:19 GMT
Krisno BTW, Is your Soundcard plugged into the furthest slot away from Video card etc ? Are all fan supply cables etc. tied back well clear of your soundcard ?
SandyK
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 18, 2007 21:00:14 GMT
I'd love to be able to help you but never listen to my music through a soundcard... from what you've said though the problem does seem to be with the source, I don't think you have blown your headphones up
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Post by krisno on Dec 18, 2007 21:47:46 GMT
Hi PinkFloyd
Do you have a MF x-dac 3 to sell me?
Atleast the little pinkie works...
Which DAC would you recommend? USB 'dac's still go through the windows KMIXER which is crappy and downsamples to 14bit, so spdif is really the way to go.
I will try with ASIO drivers tomorrow, se if it helps.... Well I didn't notice any screeching on the grundig stereo when running on headphone out jack, and its even on low volumes, so it must be the computer source. A strange error....
But jazz music has little artifacts, though every rock song is just terrible.... really strange, and sad.
Anyone tried the Moodlab non-oversampling 'DICE' DAC ? Is it worth the money? Rather get that with USB than the MF X-DAC 3?
Would you need a little pinkie for the X-DAC 3?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 22:24:41 GMT
Krisno Where did you get this information about the downsampling to 14 bit ? IF it is correct, there are a lot of misguided USB DAC users out there ! IMHO, USB DACs are a flawed concept, anyway. SandyK
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Post by krisno on Dec 18, 2007 22:32:26 GMT
Windows XP Kmixer downsamples from 16 to 14bit because it must be able to stream many audio streams at one time..
For instance, you can fire up Windows Media Player, Winamp, Foobar and a DVD player, and all can play audio at the same time in the same stream. You will hear all these audio streams at the same time.
To be able to do this, windows KMixer in XP downsamples any 16bit stream into 14bit. Everything goes through the Kmixer except spdif i belive. Even USB! USB therefor in theory is crappy.
I am using Win XP 64, it is not based on the XP core but on the Server 2003 Service Pack 1 kernel. I think the KMixer part in this OS is even worse and therefore degrades the audio and makes this very noticable 'screeching'. It can be heard even by my old mother!!
I will try with asio drivers tomorrow and foobar.... ASIO is supposed to bypass Kmixer! Check out the foobar forums in case you wonder what the KMixer does.
Yes, everyone in HIFI has misunderstood, but it does not matter, they can't hear the difference. 90% of them.... but I can really hear this f**king screeching....
By the way, 'Kmixer' in Vista is excellent, it even upsamples on the fly.. it is great! so USB dac on Vista will work nicely....
What DAC's is recommended.... anyone tried the dice dacs? Its hard to find a Musical Fidelity X-DAC used on e-bay etc.....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 22:48:48 GMT
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toad
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Post by toad on Dec 18, 2007 22:50:41 GMT
Since you're using PCMCIA I assume you're using a laptop? If so I only have limited knowledge of Laptop audio.
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 19, 2007 0:17:55 GMT
Tried the sound card into my main hi-fi, didn't hear any probs and I use the ASIO drivers, it sounded shite compared to my main dacs but I didn't hear any crackling, I also have a spdif out from the arse end of the pc which I hardly use but tried it anyway, that also works ok
I've never liked USB audio, its by far worse than even SPDIF IMO but try not to comment on it too much so not to be seen as a picky scroat. USB is one of those things that people seem to find more convenient
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