leo
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Post by leo on Dec 28, 2007 15:35:50 GMT
No, I doubt they are the problem. As you say they are the best. It could be headphone listening is the problem, maybe it isn't for you. You could swap & change components forever & still not be happy. I prefer loudspeakers but due to domestic circumstances - small house in relation to occupants, have no real choice at the moment. If I was you I'd try to hear the X-Cans/AKG with a Cd player. A friends, or buy one from ebay, then sell it on. You owe this to yourself, then you will know whether headphones are for you or not. Totally agree! I also still prefer speakers but for when the missus is watching tv, late at night etc headphones are ideal
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Dec 28, 2007 15:36:15 GMT
The music just sounds 'boring' really...... nothing like the Martin Logan Odessy's i heard..... or B&W on Krell and Thule..... sounds soo much more alive and better. but wel well... probably the source will help. What source was supplying this equipment when you heard it?
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Dec 28, 2007 15:40:18 GMT
How does Grado match X-can v3 tube amp? I I've not heard this combo. mrarroyo has & he is the best person to advise you.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Dec 28, 2007 16:08:01 GMT
Maybe you had too high expectations? Don't forget, I ended up with headphones as it was the best way for me to access my music collection under my current situation. I didn't look for headphones as a new way of getting my sonic thrills. If this had of been my mode of entry it would have left me totally underwhelmed as well.
If the kit was sounding decent, bearing in mind it's unlikely it will sound as good as loudspeakers, how much headphone listening do you envisage yourself doing?
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Dec 28, 2007 16:13:59 GMT
I think the AKG's could do with some more hours on the clock as well. Hmmmmmm I have spend some time with this setup now 1) AKG K 701 (almost brand new, 70-80hours use) The system sounds crap!! And still has 'crackling/screeching' in almost every song. I have bought ten different CD's, original, asio drivers etc.. I just sounds crap..... I thought it would sound like an expensive stereo, but it does not. It's really just crap! ITo be honest, I got some of the best headphones, and a £300 headphone amp shouldn't be too bad.... still, it's the worst crap I have almost ever heard. B&W speakers on NAD equipment sound better than this.. Let's hope its the source?! The X-Dac will be wired to the amp with Nordost Solarwind (silver) interconnect, so that will also improve somewhat. K (If this is what headphone listenening is all about, I will sell the stuff. Useless...) ... You know guys, I read alot of remarks about people getting used to headphones never go back to speakers. Seems to be wrong....
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Post by krisno on Dec 28, 2007 20:34:41 GMT
If the AKG is not hte problem.... Is it the X-can?
The WooAmp 6+ is regardly higly for the AKG 701's....
I cannot belive that the X-Can V3 circuit sucks so hard that it underperformes the Wooamp 6+ vastly. Remember I have got the little pinkie, so power supply insufficiency is not the case.
Can it be that the Jansen Tubes plainly suck for the AKG's ? If I get those 6N23P Valves (tubes) that Micke sell's, how EXACTLY does it improve the stock x-can v3?
I want to know..... 6N23P Valves (tubes) vs STOCK TUBES:
Transparancy: increased or decreased Bass: increased or decreased Treble/discant( meaning the higher tones): Does it reach 'higher' tones vs the stock jansen tubes?
I mean, is it the jansen tubes that make this system suck so much?
still , music sucks so hard on some tracks, maybe soundcard is all the trouble...
or have i blwon the AKG's... hmm.....
I just got myself Starwars III (new edition) in HD format!! Imagine the soundtrack on this(thx from the creators).... will see if the system sounds better on this, though still analog soundcard source ....
Other than wooamp, what does really akg need? i agree bass might be lacking, because of akg or tubes?
Lots of quiz, please answer atleast the stock vs the micke tubes...
Kristian
P.S. any better tubes to get?
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Post by krisno on Dec 28, 2007 20:40:10 GMT
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Post by krisno on Dec 28, 2007 21:20:11 GMT
I just downloaded some HD recorded music with video from quicktime.com.
I set the quicktime to 24bit/96hz which soundcard supports, though I don't hear any difference from 16bit.
Anyways, the system sounds ALOT better on this. Now it acutally sounds good, so maybe, the dac will help a little and I am good to go. But its strange why orignal CD's and MP3's suck so intensly.... but the 24bit quicktime hd movies sound fine... it is acutally enjoyable. and the bass is there ..... :-) I am happy.
But well the Woo Audio 6 with all the upgrades ( 3x black gate capacitators), with integrated PSU, on the MF x-dac 3 might be something much better.... the woo amps really look nice...
btw, tubes are graet. this is my first tube amp, and even though it makes noise on high volumes even without source connected, its nicer... more musical.
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Post by krisno on Dec 28, 2007 22:07:26 GMT
What sampling rate on the S/PDIF out from the soundcard to the MF X-Dac V3 do you recommend?
Should I set the sampling rate to 48khertz, og 96khertz..... at 96khertz i presume the dvd audio will go straight through at 'full bits' but when playing 44khertz audio i presume the sb audigy will upsample , and the x-dac is better at upsampling than the sound card...
well well.. enough said from me....
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toad
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Post by toad on Dec 28, 2007 22:17:09 GMT
70 or 80 hours burn in is nothing for a pair of AKGs. Most people reckon on 300 hours bare minimum. I've heard some people saying 1000 hours. Leave them running 24/7 at a loud but comforable listening level.
My HD595s were uninspiring for the first 120 hours and all of a sudden it's like someone had removed a sock from them. The difference really was amazing. Run the AKGs for at least 300 hours then try them again. Reviewers often don't even bother listening to a product until it's had it's minimum burn in itme.
Patience is the key.
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Post by krisno on Dec 28, 2007 22:24:31 GMT
ah.... at last!
I connected a $100 sony DVD player, using as CD source with nordost solarwind (silver coated) interconnect:
1) I can turn the X-can v3 dial to MAX, and its now DEAD quiet! No hissing what so ever.... so the cheap computer cable is the cause of that.
2) We suddenly have bass.... enough of it. I have seldom heard jazz better than this, and this is crappy DAC in cheap DVD player!!
3) There is some hiss/crackling, but very little.... more burning in might fix it.
4) THE RECORDINGS ARE ALIVE! Alive I tell ya!!!! finally...
The source and cheap cable might be the problem... I just can't wait for the x-dac V3! I am sure that the computer will be as good as transport as a meridian cd player. Jazz sounds just soo good... and that saxophone..... so well placed..... my god, Miles Davis never been better.... and even on such crappy dvd player... and the amp is totaly quiet.... just black black black. except noisy recording.
Wonder what the DAC will do too 320kbits mp3. the x-dac has some nice upscaling with it...
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toad
Been here a while!
I am the Super Toad, the Original Toad, the Whole Toad and nothing BUT the toad.... don't forget it!
Posts: 1,223
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Post by toad on Dec 28, 2007 22:32:22 GMT
Thank God for that Welcome to the club And don't be surprised if the burn in process has down turns as well as upswings before finally settling down.
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Post by krisno on Dec 28, 2007 22:46:00 GMT
I am just one BIG now.... at last... after weeks of 'pain'. My god, the source and crappy cable was the problem. I just can't wait for that expensive MF X-Dac v3.... it will be even better than this. I mean, it just must be better than a $100 sony dvd player! Amazing..... this x-can v3 now sounds just soo nice. Excellent! EXCELLENT!!!
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Post by dc on Dec 29, 2007 1:37:16 GMT
computers make good transports/storage devices, but are hopeless sources
this you've finally realised. you optical out to a DAC and hold on =)
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leo
Been here a while!
Team wtf is it?
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Post by leo on Dec 29, 2007 9:36:03 GMT
Glad your happy
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Post by krisno on Dec 29, 2007 12:44:03 GMT
what s/pdif out sampling rate do you recommend?
Will audiocd's automaticly stream with 'full bits' through the spdif line-out on the soundcard?
K
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Post by bennyboy on Dec 31, 2007 7:32:10 GMT
Maybe your tubes are shot? Get some of those 6n23p-ev russians from Mike.
Either way you'll improve the SQ and bass.
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Post by krisno on Dec 31, 2007 12:47:52 GMT
I think Micke in a earlier comment said that Jan/Phillips tubes are excellent. Are they?
I mean, are these cheap crappy tubes, or quite good?
I will eventually get tube upgrades.....
K
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Post by fanboi on Dec 31, 2007 15:36:07 GMT
Philips are IMHO a first tier electronics co and the JAN = Joint Army Navy eg military specification tubes, usually slightly lower power output, but greater piece to piece consistency, more thoroughly tested before manufacturing release, and usually more ruggedly constructed and less microphonic.
In my ramblings in the thread, computer as source (or something like that) I have made the observation I made early in my comparisons of various equipment (admittedly desktop machines, not laptops) WRT low grade cable from USB DAC to headphone amp. I quickly discarded it for a better quality pair of I/Cs. I am unsure of the current state of the art, much less with PCMCIA versions, but at one stage Creative were doing some odd things in the way of resampling, there was some hoohah about them telling porkies about 48 bit sampling (or its usability) I do not recall all the details but there was quite a fuss about it at the time. They may be the most prolific and highest profile soundcard manufacturer but generally their emphasis is on the gaming and surround sound market rather than the hi fidelity and professional market. Low bitrate mp3 will sound poor on good equipment. I am not sure that at any time you have indicated whether you are attempting to replay your CD direct from the laptop CDrom drive or have ripped the CDs to .wav files before playing. Particularly on a laptop with power management systems and distribution issues, realtime processes may well be less than satisfactory compared to a desktop machine.
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Post by krisno on Dec 31, 2007 16:39:59 GMT
I am going to play 320bit mp3's AND use the computer cdrom as transport, with spdif optical out from the SB Audigy 2 PCMCIA soundcard, to a Musical Fidelity X-DAC v3 !
I read in many reviews that optical/digital out form computers to a quality dac, sounds just as good as meridian cd players... I still honestly believe that digital is almost digital (jitter might be an issue, but not much)...
So therefor, this combo should be VERY VERSATILE, and should sound atleast better than a mediocre external cd-player .... yes? no?
my X-dac buy on the e-bay takes somewhat time.. the seller is spending wasting alot of time on the shipment, so I wont be able to try this dac until feburary.
DAC's 'last' forever don't they? It's a 6month used dac... Its not point for me getting anything better than that one when using computer i guess.
What will be intereseting is the 24bit/192khertz upsampling, if it will make a difference or not. Probably it will somewhat, even on headphones.... what will it do, make the sound a little more ' natural'? or?
Happy new year..
(I just pray to god that passing cd-audio from computer through optical on the soundcard will be just as good as anything else)...
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Post by fanboi on Dec 31, 2007 18:37:50 GMT
Kris, you have a good headamp, good cans and it all sounds good out of a cheap CD player but sounds not very good when played on the CDrom drive in your laptop out through the PCMCIA card. How does it sound if you rip the tracks off the CD to your harddrive and then play that back with say Foobar or Winamp ? The problem with laptops is that they are built to maximise battery life and turn off all sorts of things quite quickly if they are not (apparently) being used, speedstep the processor etc. you may already have been irritated by the screensaver coming on while you are engrossed in reading a web page. Most of the people I know of who use PCs as sources, rip their CDs to the hard drive and play from there. The best PC sourced DAC I am aware of is the one built in to the Slim Devices Transporter, a very upmarket Squeezebox (around $US2K IIRC), yes, it is more than a DAC but reputed to be better than the Lavry DA 10 and the Bel Canto. Have you considered a Squeezebox ? The X DAC can be very good if worked over. I do not think it will deteriorate as much as your nerves will from the delay Generally, optical out is not recommended unless electrical isolation is required to eliminate ground loop generated hum problems, it is usually considered inferior to coaxial. The reading of optically stored data on a PC is much more error prone than the reading of magnetically stored data on a hard disc (and slower). Whilst the bits are the same just as the notes on a musical score are the same, the whole key to the music is the timing, in either example get it wrong, interrupt the flow and you have no music, only noise. Good music, well recorded, can sound very, very good at Redbook CD standard 16bit 44KHz and if that is all you have to start with then no amount of digital hijinks will change that - bit like "digital zoom" on your camera - techno BS IMO. Yes, you can do upsampling and dithering and anti-aliasing to try and smooth out the digititis - but do you want to listen to your recorded music or a computer generated simulation? You want a versatile, good quality sounding system with minimum space and clutter if I am reading right, I would suggest you do what Miguel does and buy a big external harddrive and rip your music to that (keep your mp3s on it too - 256bit VBR Lame encoded is pretty good) Whatever, it is daylight here now and I am going to have some kip before it gets too hot to sleep. Have a good New Year yourself. ciao
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Post by charleyphogg on Jan 1, 2008 1:17:48 GMT
I just bought a new cd.. Tom McRae ... 'crackles'... no crackling on latest Clark Terry CD. But rock 'crackles' in some places, it is REALLY heard. The crackling is loud... it's because its not 'broken' in? I don't think this 'error' can be corrected.... 'Screech and crackles' on exactly the same places on the different recordings...... Very strange indeed. I got a powerful computer, i tried 2 different soundcards(one pcmcia, and one built in), and same 'error'. I thought it might be the mp3 compression rutines, but this brand new Tom McRae CD , its full quality..... and it has same problems. The AKG's are almost brand new yes... it's amazing if the AKG suck so much in the beginning. hmm... strange I would presume the x-can v3 was a good enough amp to drive the akg even if they are 'difficult'. The 'crackles'/'screeching' are also there if I plug the AKG's straight into computer and SKIP THE AMP! I adjusted the volume on the soundcard and still same error, so this must be the AKG's really.. K Not sure if you have your problem fixed or not. I've read this thread a few times not quite able to put my finger on what was striking me as wrong. If you have a soundcard, before you install your soundcard you need to remove all the drivers from the onboard audio. Then install your soundcard in the pci slot, furthest away from eveything ( oops, forgot this was a laptop, but chose to leave it in ) . Then install what ever drivers your sound card requires. I would hold off on any extra software until you have problem sorted out. After you install your soundcard drivers, and before any additional software, opem device manager and make sure there are no conflicts on the slot that the sound card is installed on. In case I;m clear as mud, having a soundcard and on board audio will cause problems. Also, have you checked your laptop for spyware and other cpu sucking issues? As Fanboi points out, a laptop has many compromises built into it and all of it comes into play. Now I read the latest updates on this thread and realize I;n a day late and a dollar short...ahhhh such is life ;D
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Post by krisno on Jan 1, 2008 7:34:19 GMT
1: None if these problems whatsoever is caused by the computer. I have been doing computer hardware for 20years, so relax. By the way, the laptop is running on power from the 220volt grid, not batteries.
The problem is that the DAC in the SB Audigy 2 PCMCIA soundcard sucks intensly, combined with a very lowgrade mini to phono cable which made alot of hiss. I never thought bad cable would be this bad, but using the nordost solarwind interconnects, I got NO hiss at all either.
So therefor, i will use OPTICAL S/PDIF out from PCMCIA soundcard to the MF X-DAC V3. The soundcard does not support coaxial, but optical should be good enough. Doubt I will hear much difference... but never say never.
Are you guys saying that i will have problems making the x-dac v3 'LOCK' onto the s/pdif signal?? Is that a common problem??? It uses time and has problems locking onto the digital signals?
!!??
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Post by fanboi on Jan 1, 2008 10:01:17 GMT
Kris, to try and get a handle on the possibilities I have just set up and tested the following system: Dell Latitude C840 laptop, P4-M 2.2GHz, 512MB ram, XP SP2, onboard sound not disabled, connected to LAN by onboard wireless 11g connection. Connected Monica 2 USB DAC -> Blue Jeans LC1 cables -> Solo headamp -> AKG 701. Running from battery to increase likelihood of problems. Using ASIO4ALL and Foobar2000 tested playing from CDRom drive, listened to Solace by Sarah McLachlan, heard 2 brief glitches probably caused by CD read error (not screeches just brief discontinuities), playing .wav files from Server via network, played 5 full tracks without error. Then ripped the CD while continuing to play from tracks stored on the server - then played back from the ripped files. SQ as good as I expect from my CDP in my main system.
The Terratec Producer Phase 26B is still current, USB connection, offers optical, coax, analogue in and out, mic in, phono in and headphone out, 24/96 but is built for USB1 so is a bit of a pain to use at times as it has to be switched between modes and the appropriate driver loaded (5 different drivers !) around 200 euros new - SQ first class.
No, I wouldn't expect a problem locking onto the optical signal, if that is all you have then by all means use it, if you had a choice then the general consensus is that coax is superior. In my understanding jitter is the audio equivalent of camera shake.
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Post by krisno on Jan 1, 2008 15:00:53 GMT
ASIO drivers make no differnce for me...
do you know if ASIO will make any difference when using optical out? Is the kmixer and everything else bypassed when using digital/optical out?
I agree on optical vs coaxial... i will use coaxial when get workstation.
I hope you are right on the 'locking on the stream'...
my GOD this audigy 2 sucks. haha.... mother of god. The differnse is so immense even on a crappy sony dvd player playing audio cd's.
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