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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 21:43:45 GMT
Hi Alex, With the lowest of low latency chart I've seen determined using DPC Latency Checker V1.3.0, I'd just leave your computer alone and be content that you must have it set up close to perfectly for audio, occasional sound glitches if doing lots of stuff as well as listening are par for the course. Aint broke, don't bugger with it. cheers.. jeffc Hi Jeff Yes, you have seen the results of a latency test that I ran a while back. I consider that I am doing very well with the results that I am already getting from a PC that isn't dedicated purely to AV. I also have the idea that a more expensive SMPS with more than just a single massive current +12V supply would give even better results, but the ultimate would still be a dedicated AV computer using high quality linear power supplies with a motherboard that is also designed for this primary use. Kind Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 22:55:42 GMT
Greg My problems ceased again when I removed those other 2 memory sticks.Unfortunately, my Intel board will only accept 1GB sticks of DDR2 800, so I can't simply slot in 2 x 2GB DDR2 800 sticks in place of the existing 2 x 1GB. To go to 4GB using those proven slots, I would need to go down to DDR2 667. Memory of this type is much more expensive these days and I am not prepared to purchase more to find out the MB is the problem. Regards Alex
Table 3. Supported Memory Configurations DIMM Type SDRAM Technology Smallest usable DIMM (one x16 Single-sided DIMM) Largest usable DIMM (one x8 Double-sided DIMM) Maximum capacity with four identical x8 Double-sided DIMMs DDR2 533 256 Mbit 128 MB 512 MB 2 GB DDR2 533 512 Mbit 256 MB 1 GB 4 GB DDR2 533 1 Gbit 512 MB 2 GB 8 GB DDR2 667 256 Mbit 128 MB 512 MB 2 GB DDR2 667 512 Mbit 256 MB 1 GB 4 GB DDR2 667 1 Gbit 512 MB 2 GB 8 GB DDR2 800 256 Mbit 128 MB 512 MB 2 GB DDR2 800 512 Mbit 256 MB 1 GB 4 GB
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 9, 2012 23:35:32 GMT
Alex, it looks like you have totally missed the whole idea that is behind Linux and OPEN-SOURCE: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_sourceLinux and other open-source software will never be like the commercial stuff from Apple and Microsoft. That doesn't means that everything is free, of course. You pay for some distributions of open-source operating system, but that mostly for a box with a CD in it. Most open-source software is freely available for download though. You have to distinguish between the used license types though. Some of the most important open-source license types are GPL, LGPL and BSD. But there are a lot of variations around. One of the most open license types is GPL. There are even a few variants of the GPL. Even Apple uses source code that is licensed by a open-source license. In fact, their WHOLE system is based one a BSD-style license (which isn't as "open" and "free" as a GPL). But what they have additionally programmed is mostly non-free code (the Aqua GUI for example). Apple already did violate some open-source licenses partially because they did not publish their altered code soon enough. Some think they have something to hide. If you have the knowledge, you CAN create your own operating system with source code that is freely available. If you take code that is licensed by GPL (for example), you HAVE to publish your altered code also and this code MUST be also licensed by the same license (GPL). Otherwise you'd violate the GPL license agreement. Kind regards, Christian
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 23:43:08 GMT
Hi Christian I doubt that I have. It's a way for cheapskate computer nerds to get something for nothing, derived from the hard work of the "Borg"collective ! ;D Due to continuing hard economic times, that are likely to get much worse, I think you may find that far fewer people will be willing to give away their hard work for free. Especially if they are no longer employed ! Kind Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2012 0:06:40 GMT
Do you mean RG should be charging those who ask questions? Should current RG readers stop being cheapskates and pay real enegineers to help/advice them? Interesting POV
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2012 0:17:34 GMT
Do you mean RG should be charging those who ask questions? Should current RG readers stop being cheapskates and pay real enegineers to help/advice them? Interesting POV Of course not, although it might be worthwhile if guys like yourself who offer worthwhile advice so freely, were selected by the members, and awarded with a reviewed product that didn't need returning, or some other consideration perhaps donated by, and voted on by the members, rather like the competitions previously run, but based more on merit ? Admins wouldn't be eligible though, although I feel sure that Frans for example, is more than happy just getting the thanks he deserves. Kind Regards Alex Attachments:
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Post by elysion on Jul 10, 2012 0:26:32 GMT
I can't explain everything with only a few lines of text. There are a lot of possibilites when upgrading memory and also some real limitations. At first, it depends on the motherboard/computer you are using. Every motherboard/computer has limits and you have to live with those limits. There are some situations where you can got beyond the official limits, but these are special cases. For most computers which use a kind of DDR3 memory, you can follow some basic rules: The best configurations (which means most stable and often also fastest configurations), you have to use exactly the same kind of modules: Same manufactuer, same model, same capacity and the same timings. The reasons for this are the switching threshold, the SPD-EEPROM (and the settings stored inside them) and the organisation/quality/behaviour of the modules. The memory subsystem of a computer acts as one unit. If you put modules with different electrical characteristics (for example the switching threshold) in it, you make things a bit more complicated. This "rule" is for perfectionists (like me), but it's the most important rule for achieving the most out of the memory subsystem. You can certainly mix modules within in the limitations of a specific mainboard, but it won't be beneficial for maximum system stability and performance. Although you CAN mix modules (within the give limitations of your mainboard), it's not the best idea to do so. All modules shoud have the same speed/timing. Otherwise the speed/timing will be limited by the slowest module. Most limitations when upgrading memory are given by your mainboard respective the chipset used on the mainboard and/or the processor type. Many modern CPUs have their memory controller inside the CPU. You have to consider the manual that came with your mainboard and/or search the internet for informations about it. There is NO general answer. If you have enough experience, you don't need much time to know what you need to know. But if you don't have that experience already, it can be quite complicated because so much different memory types and computers exists. It's not that complicated though, but there are a lot of exceptions. And also a lot of tricks for tuning. Here are a few basic infos: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ddr3en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR2_SDRAMen.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR_SDRAMen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_presence_detectTo answer your question as good as possible: You CAN stick DDR3-1600 memory into a slot that accepts only DDR3-800 since the basic voltage for DDR3 is the same (1.5 Volts), but it is mandatory that the DDR3-1600 stick has information about the timings need for running at 800MHz in its SPD-EEPROM. Not all modules have this information programmed in their SPD-EEPROM's for all theoretically possible speeds. You can even runs modules with the lacking informations when you have a motherboard that allows you to force settings that will work (but at that point it's mostly a guess). To make it even more tricky, there are also modules around that have a possible voltage below or above the standard 1.5V. In the end you have always to consider the exact specifications of the modules you are using. Good modules have always manuals with the specifications (you must download these specs on the website of the manufacturer though). Modules for which no specs are available at all are mostly no name and crap. Some of these modules have even faulty or incomplete information programmed in their SPD-EEPROM's. If you stick different types from different manufactures into a computer, it's quite likely that the timings, the switching threshold and the information in the SPD-EEPROM don't match exactly. This makes it more complicated for the memory controller to work correctly. If this results in problems, you can set the speed and timing parameter manually (if your mainboard allows that). Some mainboard even allow you to alter the voltage of the memory bus. I'm sitting in front of a computer at the moment, which has an incredible amount of options in the UEFI/BIOS. I wouldn't recommend such a board for everyone. It's specially made for freaks/overclockers that want access to almost every parameter. It's not a simple mainboard, but if you know what to do, it gives you more performance than a standard board. It has also very high quality components on the PCB (better than standard caps, all solid types) and is designed to have a lot of reserves. The mainboard itself (or more exactly the PCB of the mainboard) makes also a difference. There are high and low quality mainboards around. Some are designed good, some not. The circuit paths on the PCB are also an important factor for the memory subsystem, just like the slots themselves. Low quality parts can have an influence on the electrical characteristics of a circuit path. That also explains (paritally) which a specific module runs well with one mainboard and doesn't with another one (even if they have the same chipsets). This should be possible in theory since every manufacturer should produce mainboards or memory modules within given standards, but practice tells us that this is just the theory. As I've mentioned above, it's almost impossible to name all details and exceptions in a few lines of text. If you want an exact answer, I'll need the exact model name of your mainboard/computer and the exact specifications of the modules you are using or want to use.
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Post by elysion on Jul 10, 2012 0:30:51 GMT
Sure you have. Source code that is released once under GPL REMAINS under the GPL. If no one contributes anymore (which is EXTREMELY unlikely), the developement process just stops. But you can always grab the code and alter it for yourself. But you have to publish the altered code again under the GPL.
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Post by elysion on Jul 10, 2012 0:33:04 GMT
Alex: Make a Google search. Type in "windows jokes". Have fun. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2012 0:49:33 GMT
Alex: Make a Google search. Type in "windows jokes". Have fun. ;D Hi Christian No need to. I only post ones like the previous for guys who take themselves (or me ) too seriously at times. ;D BTW, did you know that the new Corsair Digital Power AX 1200i is now controlled almost exclusively by digital controllers instead of analogue capacitors, resistors, chokes and VRMs ? You will soon be able to adjust voltage settings etc. yourself.Of course, ripple performance,voltage stability etc. is further improved . Kind Regards Alex
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Post by elysion on Jul 10, 2012 0:51:54 GMT
BTW: Alex, I've read the manual for your motherboard last night. I have also a sligthly older and very similar mainboard here. There are a few possibilites for altering the timings of the memory. There's a chance that we can get running your box with all four modules, but there's no guarantee. If your box would be on my table now, I'd have to more than 20 minutes to give you a final result. I've seen some information on the web yesterday which points to a problem with your mainboard and fast memory modules. Perhaps everything works if you go for a slower timing. Your memory modules have a very low latency (CL4) and are intended for very good mainboards and/or overclocking: www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator_new/PartsInfo.asp?root=de&LinkBack=&ktcpartno=KHX6400D2LLK2/2GNThe standard voltage for DDR2 is 1.8V. Yours will also run with 2.1V. But your mainboard probably can't run the memory bus at 2.1V at all. The mainboard is a plain vanilla one and if you ask me, these modules are not a good choice for your mainboard. I suggest that you manually set the timing at DDR2-800 for 5-5-5 or 6-6-6 instead of the possible 4-4-4. If you can select the voltage (I'm pretty sure you can't select it at all with your mainboard), I really recommend to stay with 1.8V. If you ever get a new mainboard, then don't take one from intel (with exception of their high-end boards). Most intel motherboard are plain vanilla and are optimised for low cost instead of quality. intel doesn't make bad mainboards though, even if they don't use only solid caps, they usually use caps from reliable sources (and no crap). But you really get what you pay for: A plain vanilla motherboard without a lot of options and only standard components. Did you also check if you have already the lastest BIOS version? AFAIK, it would be "MQ96510J.86A_iSRT", version "1761" from 03/24/2009.
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Post by elysion on Jul 10, 2012 1:02:38 GMT
Corsair doesn't make their PSU's itself. They buy them from OEM's (like Seasonic). Seasonic is the biggest name in computer PSU's and is currently known for making the reference in PSU's. It's their "X-Series" and I'm using one of these babies in the computer on my desk.
Forget Corsair if you want quality for memory or PSU's. Buy from the manufacturers that produce for Corsair. You won't get better quality with Corsair. You can't get more than the OEM also sells under his own name.
A 1200W PSU is (BTW) absolutely overkill unless you have an extreme overclocked gaming rig with a crossfire or SLI setup with at least two high-end GPU's.
If you have a serious looks a various PSU reviews, you'll see that the X-Series from Seasonic is still regarded as the reference.
One of my mainboard (that in the computer on my desk) is also using digial voltage regulation. That's not uncommon for high-end overlocker mainboards. In the end it's the combo: The best PSU doesn't make a difference with a plain vanilla mainboard (and vice-versa).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2012 1:12:20 GMT
Hi Christian It is quite possible that the other 2 memory modules, although of the same type, are not as compatible in this motherboard at the present settings, but to be honest, I have had a gutful of stuffing around with the other 2 on many occasions.That's why I looked at the possibility of 2 x 2GB DDR2 667 in the same slots, with a more suitable timing setting, but it's just not worth the asking price these days. Let's be realistic though, this P.C. is now 5 1/2 years old! Like me. it's possibly past it's use-by date. Kind Regards Alex P.S. Intel MBs are plain vanilla, but normally reliable. Intel wouldn't be my choice for a new MB.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2012 1:19:49 GMT
Perhaps, but I would still prefer to use a PSU with separate +12V supplies for the MB and ancillaries.
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Post by elysion on Jul 10, 2012 1:20:39 GMT
Hi Christian It is quite possible that the other 2 memory modules, although of the same type, are not as compatible in this motherboard at the present settings, but to be honest, I have had a gutful of stuffing around with the other 2 on many occasions.That's why I looked at the possibility of 2 x 2GB DDR2 667 in the same slots, with a more suitable timing setting, but it's just not worth the asking price these days. Let's be realistic though, this P.C. is now 5 1/2 years old! Like me. it's possibly past it's use-by date. Kind Regards Alex Simply try with the speed and timing settings in the BIOS. If it doesn't work at all with all four modules at DDR2-800 with 5-5-5 or 6-6-6, then try DDR2-667 with 6-6-6. Of course always with 1.8V (if you can select it at all). If you want really know if one or two modules behave different than the other two modules, then swap them. Put the other two modules in it and remove the ones you are currently using. If this swap works without problems, you have probably (only) a problem with your speed/timing settings. To make testing easier, you can start with DDR2-667 and 6-6-6 at 1.8V. If this doesn't work, then it is rather likely that you have a damaged memory module, a damaged memory slots or motherboard or both. It could also be a simple incompatibility because these modules don't run well on your motherboard with 1.8V (they should though according to the specs) and/or in a four slot setup. The switching threshold of the modules could be a problem then but there are also other possibilities. Don't forget to update the BIOS first. The BIOS updates offer often better compatibility with newer CPU types and memory modules.
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Post by elysion on Jul 10, 2012 1:23:16 GMT
Another hint: Disconnect your harddrive (pull both the data cable and the power source) while testing. You can use a bootable CD (for example an Ubuntu CD) for testing. This way you don't have to worry about corruption on your system disk in case the system will hang and you have to reset the computer. If everything looks OK, you can test also with your system disk and Windows.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2012 1:46:46 GMT
Hi Christian Any further stuffing around will have to wait until I next need to have the PC on the bench.It's a P.I.T.A. pulling all this apart and setting it all up again in it's corner of my bedroom, with a pile of other stuff involved like X-DAC V3 and it's PSU, HA and it's PSU, External +5V JLH PSU etc.There are bloody leads everywhere. Also, more often than not, shit happens and it takes me hours to sort it all out again. Anyway, these are the memory settings. Kind Regards Alex SDRAM CONTROL-AUTO tCL = 5 tRP = 5 tRASmin = 16
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Post by elysion on Jul 10, 2012 2:36:54 GMT
No need to hurry. Do it when you like and leave it if you don't like at all. This is a quote from the manual of your DIMMs (see the link about the specs a few posts above for a download link) Maybe the 1.9V are the problem. It can't tell you if your motherboard can deliver 1.9V at all and if it does, it's not sure that it runs stable. I'd go for DDR2-800 or DDR2-667 with 6-6-6 and 1.8V. The DDR2-800 4-4-4 timing is only possible with 2.0V or more according to the manual. I have also a few Kingston Hyper-X DDR2-800 modules around. But these are 2GB modules with a SPD timing of 5-5-5 at 1.8V. Sometimes, it's quite comparable to other electronic devices: Some parts don't run stable at a specific voltage. But that doesn't means that the modules themselves must be the problem. It could be also the motherboard that is screwed with the modules. Keep in mind that the circuit path is longer when you use four modules. You have two memory channels and if you put only one in each channel, then the motherboard will be more tolerant because the circuit path is shorter. Some extreme overclockers use only two out of four memory slots because they can run two modules with tighter settings than four. In fact, a Sandy Bridge chipset like Z68 is officially only supporting DDR3-1333 when using four slots. Higher memory clock speeds are hard to achieve with four modules. My Kingston modules in the box on my desk are capable of running at DDR3-1600, but I run them fixed at DDR3-1333. This is the most stable setting. The other Sandy Bridge box which I have around has "only" DDR3-1333 memory in it and it runs also with DDR3-1333. Personally, I prefer capacity and low latency over higher clock speeds and I strictly avoid overvolting of memory. The Kingston DDR3-1600 modules mentioned above would survive also 1.625V, but they are running stictly at 1.5V. Anything in the region of 1.625V or above would KILL the memory controller inside the Sandy Bridge CPU. Some guys use memory settings up to 1.623V, but that's far to risky for my taste. I like stable systems. Caution: The voltage settings are different for each CPU generation and not directly comparable with earlier or later processor and/or memory generations.
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Post by elysion on Jul 10, 2012 3:00:41 GMT
The screen with the memory settings in your BIOS will look similar to this: Can you post a picture of this screen? If you don't see all options in "automatic" mode, then select "manual" and make also a picture. You don't have to save the altered setting. Exit the BIOS afterwards WITHOUT saving. This way, I can you give exact values for testing. When I say "5-5-5" or "6-6-6", I mean tCL, tRCD and tRP. tRASmin is also often mentioned in the specifications of a memory modules. You are a lucky guy since your memory modules have a good manual that lists everything needed. Kingston does a good job with the documentation of its memory modules.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2012 3:44:11 GMT
Hi Christian The screen is similar whether in Auto or Manual (Aggressive, or User.) I will not be going further at this time. I will explain in a PM. Kind Regards Alex P.S. Perhaps anything further on this aspect should be taken off line to avoid turning other members off completely, if they aren't already ? The original thread was about perceived improvements to PC responsiveness and a small SQ improvement with Audio saved to and played from the RB Corsair in comparison with the normal Corsair used for Audio.The RB device appears to have some kind of priority compared with normal? Attachments:
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Post by cyteen on Jul 11, 2012 13:01:18 GMT
Once you get past the first decade of using anything everything gets much easier. Every move I've made toward a more commercially backed solutions for anything it has come back to bite me both in terms of my time and my money and the compromises I have had to endure when the supplier either stopped supplying or said 'can't fix, won't fix'.
For me, everything I want software for seems to be technical beyond the needs of the general populous. The commercial offerings are always big bucks only and the degree of learning required high. If you spend time learning for commercial then they have you locked in.
If commercial suits you and the majority it could be you've already spent a decade of learning that system.
The Free software model isn't about the money or the freedom of the individual to do what they want, its about the Freedom of the code. All the other benefits stem from there.
Service based Redhat now has a market cap of $10b and yearly revenue of $1.2b so there is money in Free.
Both Redhat and Ubuntu if not like Microsoft or Apple would like to be.
Software developers have to learn to provide a service. The coding is the means. By leveraging existing Free code I can build, as a lone programmer and in a short period of time, systems that a could not have hoped to build unless in a large company in the past. When it comes to extending this code base its natural for me to contribute back to the projects I use.
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