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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 1:24:55 GMT
I have now replaced the 2 x 1GB DDR2 800 Kingston HyperX Memory that I removed due to occasional crashes when using XP. The Intel 965LTCK Motherboard manual says this is O.K. Yes, the PC is more responsive again, and Windows memory test which took several minutes to perform, came back with no errors. Nevertheless, I have still had an instance of failure at startup due to a memory related problem. There have been no previous occurences with only 2GB in use since changing to W7/32 Alex
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 8:02:14 GMT
Sometimes errors reported as caused by "memory" actually happen due to other things like disk or file corruption. I suggest you run the CHKDSK command with the "/R" switch from a DOS prompt, if you don't know how to do it I'll write the steps for you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 8:24:08 GMT
Sometimes errors reported as caused by "memory" actually happen due to other things like disk or file corruption. I suggest you run the CHKDSK command with the "/R" switch from a DOS prompt, if you don't know how to do it I'll write the steps for you. Hi Javier I have run CHKDSK on quite a few previous occasions. This error is the first time since W7 was installed back around Feb. 2010 (?), and ONLY since the extra 2GB was added a couple of days ago. Regards Alex
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Jul 8, 2012 9:17:32 GMT
Sometimes errors reported as caused by "memory" actually happen due to other things like disk or file corruption. I suggest you run the CHKDSK command with the "/R" switch from a DOS prompt, if you don't know how to do it I'll write the steps for you. Hi Javier I have run CHKDSK on quite a few previous occasions. This error is the first time since W7 was installed back around Feb. 2010 (?), and ONLY since the extra 2GB was added a couple of days ago. Regards Alex Alex Just a thought Look in the bios and change the setup for dual memory. Set them back so they are not paired.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 10:22:31 GMT
Allan The PC started to crash big time, so I had no option but to once again remove those 2 additional Hyperex DDR2 800 modules. As I had previoiusly marked both with an X a couple of years ago, I must have decided at the time that they were the 2 of the 4 that were causing the original problems.Ready Boost appears to be doing the same as those 2 modules did initially anyway, as regards PC responsiveness. Alex
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jul 8, 2012 11:22:52 GMT
It is time for a Mac!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 11:28:20 GMT
i don't think rain is the problem
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 11:34:10 GMT
Hi Miguel Yes, With genuine Aussie Angus Beef. Yum ! Seeing that even Apple computers use memory modules, and Apple charges like wounded steers for additional or replacement modules, I think I would much rather replace faulty memory in a PC than in an Apple product. Regards Alex P.S. Are you guys having a heatwave over there ? Perhaps they need more part time attendants to massage suntan lotion into the Miami Beach babes ?
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 8, 2012 16:34:34 GMT
Time for Linux, with the full support of Elysion, which is also a variation of Apple OS! That's why Linux and Apple are usually very stable.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 8, 2012 16:57:34 GMT
Even Apple uses STANDARD memory in their products. Of course, with the exception of the models that have soldered their memory onto the motherboard and have no (SO-)DIMM slots.
I've "tuned" a lot of Macs with faster than standard memory modules, for example with Kingston Hyper-X SO-DIMMs.
Yes. Especially Windows is well known for such senseless error messages. But that doesn't mean that it isn't a memory error. Only a serious test will show. BTW: Forget about software memory tests. Their are mostly not very accurate and can show fine results even with faulty memory. Some bad software "tests" are running entirely in the cache of the CPU. Real memory testers are very costly. As long as you don't have ECC memory, you'll never have the confidence that your memory is really OK. Even I can't do much more than setup a system and if the system is running without errors for a longer time, I can assume that the memory is working well. I do stress tests with every new system and/or if I do change the memory configuration. Real world tasks are best for this purpose. Something that really takes your machine to the limit.
Memory corruption can be tricky: Sometimes, only a few memory cells are faulty and the rest of the DIMM is working well. As long as the faulty addresses aren't used, you are fine. But if these addresses are used, you'll get an error. You can deal with such issues only in two ways: Replace the faulty module (best way) or move the faulty memory to other memory slots (this will change the address of the faulty memory cells, so they aren't addressed as much depending on their new "location"; this is IMO only a temporary workaround).
I've seen even memory modules that didn't work at cold temperature while they were working in a hot environment. Probably a faulty solder joint on the module.
Yes. For testing that's maybe an option (depending on the motherboard), but otherwise it's much better to get new memory instead of running the memory in single-channel mode. It's senseless to run a motherboad with dual-, triple- or quad-channel support in single-channel mode. Memory bandwidth is a major factor for a fast computer.
2GB isn't really much for the task you are doing on your computer, Alex. Your system is almost certainly swapping on your harddrive occasionally. With todays memory prices, it's not a good idea to go below the theorectical maximum of 4GB for W7/32. Of course, you can't use the whole 4GB in practice since addresses are also used for other things like expansion cards and a 32bit address space is limited to 4GB in total.
If you want a fast system and good latencies for audio, then I'd strongly recommend to go for at least 4GB in your case. Any AMD64 compatatible CPU will also benefit from running in 64bit mode since the CPU looks totally different in the 64bit mode. You'll get a lot more registers for example. If you want to go for W7/64 in the future, you can do that without problems. Your W7 product key works with both the 32bit and 64bit version. The only thing you'll need to get is a retail installation CD for W7/64. "Home Basic/Premium" and "Professional" does matter though: You can only use the specific W7 version you have bought.
To be honest, before I'd call my system a "reference", I'd fix these limitations. 2GB isn't much for W7/32. Photoshop alone is able to fill these 2GB easily. Of course, you'll have "free" memory even on a 2GB system. But your computer is swapping still a lot. I wouldn't be surprised to see an influence on audio latency if the system is often swapping.
Alex, I know you can't spend much money as pensioner. But perhaps I can help. Since you are using "only" DDR2-800, it's maybe possible that I can organise a few used DIMMs for you. I can't promise anything but I know quite a few people. But I need the exact model name of your motherboard and the specs of your current DIMMs. Many Hyper-X modules have lower than standard timings and you only get the speed boost from that if you use modules which support the same low timings. It's always best to use only exactly the same type of modules in all slots. No different brand, models or timings.
Another idea: Check your memory timings in the BIOS. Some motherboards try to use automatically faster timings than are definined in the SPD-EEPROM of the memory module. In such a case, memory "errors" are quite often. You can also try to run your memory with slower timings. Sometimes "faulty" memory runs well at a slower speed.
Kingston makes usually quite reliable memory and I have also a lot of Kingston memory in use. IIRC, Kingston offers a lifetime guarantee in some countries. You should contact them to replace the memory if you can't solve the problem.
To make it even more complicated, it's also possible that your motherboard is the problem. Some motherboard are very picky about specific memory modules but run well with other types. In some cases, this behaviour is related to slightly different signal thresholds of the different memory. Some memory has even signal thresholds that are out of spec. That's very unlikely for Kingston memory though, at least as long as you run them with the timings specified in the SPD-EEPROM.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 8, 2012 17:11:15 GMT
Time for Linux, with the full support of Elysion, which is also a variation of Apple OS! That's why Linux and Apple are usually very stable. OSX is a flavour of BSD-UNIX. Linux is not. But both systems are UNIX-based. There are a lot of different UNIX flavours around. OSX is technically much closer to FreeBSD, OpenBSD or PC-BSD. In fact, OSX is a flavour of FreeBSD. They had to release their base system as open-source (with BSD-style license) since they have been using code with a BSD-license. The resulting "Darwin" OS isn't well known (and used) and Apple has violated some open-source licenses by NOT releasing their altered code fast enough. Some are guessing that Apple has something to hide there. Apples success is based on open-source software and these buggers are going "closed". That's why I can't stand behind Apple anymore. Of course, I'd appreciate if Alex is also having a look at Linux. But in this case, Windows isn't the real problem: He has only a problem with his memory and the 2GB he is using is not very much. It's possible to solve these problems though. From that viewpoint, there's no reason to switch to Linux or OSX. Even IF Alex would decide to go for Linux, he wouldn't be able to drop Windows in a few days. I have the same problem with OSX: I can't drop it instantly, but I'd like to! I'm by no means a Linux or UNIX expert. I'll have to learn A LOT in the next few years to switch from the printing industry to IT. I'm planning further education for the next years, but I'll need a new job first. As long as I don't have a job, I can only learn for myself and can't get certification for what I want. I have a lot of e-books around at the moment and I hope that I'll get a much deeper knowledge in the mid-/longterm.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 8, 2012 17:13:04 GMT
Alex: Don't forget to send me the model names and specs of your motherboard/memory. I'll try to find a few parts for you or at least a few suggestions for optimal BIOS settings.
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Jul 8, 2012 18:16:32 GMT
You could be right Chong, I have just been looking at the beta version of Windows 8 and don't like what I see. I have downloaded a version of linux ubuntu 11, I think this may be the way forward. But it will probably take forever to learn and to find the most suitable programs for my needs but definitely worth a serious look.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 8, 2012 18:58:50 GMT
You could be right Chong, I have just been looking at the beta version of Windows 8 and don't like what I see. I have downloaded a version of linux ubuntu 11, I think this may be the way forward. But it will probably take forever to learn and to find the most suitable programs for my needs but definitely worth a serious look. W8 is ugly. I've seen the betas. The metro interface is the main problem for usuability on a desktop or notebook. Maybe metro is an achievement for tablet, but it isn't for normal computers. M$ is trying to win a battle that is already lost. W7 is at least usable and works not so bad (for a Windows flavour ). W8 could be the new Vista if M$ don't care for the needs of their users. I've noticed also a few things with the W8 betas that are VERY questionable for privacy. For example I could register the first public preview of W8 with a new and relatively anonym mail-address for my former employer. They've told my then while I was registering that we already have an account and that we should use that ("it's the mail-address you are using for the Microsoft Developer Network"). This was in the registration dialog while I was registering from the company network. They've back-checked our IP address and our domain name while searching for matches in their database. There's also a reason why Apple is going "closed" with their operating systems (OSX & iOS): Apples marketshare is still growing and they know that they will end as target for computer criminals. The first signs for that are already visible. They hope to do equally well with OSX as they did with iOS in that regard. For mobile phones and tablet computers, Apple already IS the marketleader. iOS is Apples trojan horse for market dominance. There's a problem though with that strategy: Their system is going totalitarian. They achieved a kind of total control with that move. The iCloud is also a piece of this puzzle. I already call OSX the "credit card operating system". Stick your credit card into a cardreader to authenticate. There will be possibly also severe limits with a future OSX to use open-source software. The upcoming Mountain Lion alone won't be a problem though. But if you put every piece of the puzzle together and think ahead a few years, you'll end up at a point where you most likely don't like to be. With your personal login to the AppStore, iTunes store, iCloud etc., you are also very clearly identifiable for Apple and other authorities. It will be much harder to have a (limited) anonymity. IPv6 will be also a challenge for privacy, but that a small problem in comparison. It's the old story of the frog that is put in cold water. If the water is heated slowly, the frog won't notice until the water is boiling. But then it will be too late. Apple has learned a lot from Google. "Don't be evil!" is the slogan of Google, which is only the face of the building. But if we look inside, we see that Google is about the worst data collector known so far. Facebook is not important in comparison. The Google recipe is simple: Don't upset your users with primitive moves (like Facebook does). Apple and Google have a lot in common. In fact a few guys from Google have been in the board of directors of Apple (and vice-versa I guess) before they have started a war about mobile phones and tablets. I've mentioned it already a few times: Apple isn't anymore the small underdog that is fighting against that evil dark empire. They've become an empire for themselves and from the current viewpoint, they could win the war of the empires in a few years. At that point, Apple won't be much better than M$ is/was. Personally, I see only one way for "me": To go the free (as in "freedom") route with open-source software.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 22:21:19 GMT
Hi Christian At my age I would rather spend my time further improving PC audio quality, and enjoying audio playback with what I have, than go to the steep learning curve of a new OS that currently doesn't support many of the programs I regularly use.For me, the challenge is to further improve audio playback in order to keep enjoying music longer as my ears further deteriorate due to age and health . Kind Regards Alex
P.S. The Motherboard is Intel Desktop Board DP965LTCK The O.K. memory is 2 sticks of 1GB Kingston Hyperx DDR2 800 (KHX6400D2LLK2/2GN 9905316-030.A02LF 3382669-0422765 and 0422849.) Another possibility is of course a MB problem. Sooner or later, I will need to upgrade the MB etc. anyway due to USB 3.0 etc.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 8, 2012 23:39:00 GMT
Hi Alex,
it wasn't my intention to "convert" you to Linux or whatever. I already knew your viewpoint and I can understand it. Windows itself isn't the problem here anyway.
I'll have a look at your motherboard and memory (thanks for the needed information). While I'm almost sure I can give you a few recommendations about BIOS configuration/settings soon, I can't promise that I'll find the right memory so soon (used and for free). It's also very likely that I don't find another two of exact the same DIMMs you already have.
In case you replace your motherboard somewhen, I'd suggest to keep the old one if it still works. Perhaps you can use this one for experiments with other operating systems.
If you don't have too exotic hardware (i.e. something that is not supported out of the box), the various Ubuntu flavours are very easy to install and use. Even for absolute noobs. I wouldn't recommend something like Gentoo Linux or ArchLinux for beginners, but Ubuntu is very friendly. But as mentioned above: No need to go for Linux unless you want it yourself.
If you look under the hood of Linux or any other UNIX-style OS, it gets quite soon more complicated. That's what I'd like to learn myself in the next few years. But for basic usage, you don't have to use the command line with Ubuntu.
I'm using mostly Xubuntu at the moment. Mostly because it is very user friendly and good support is available online. I don't really like the Unity desktop of Ubuntu. While I have absolutely no problem with a GNOME GUI, exactly this one isn't supported out of the box with Ubuntu nowadays. That's why I use Xubuntu with a XFCE GUI. XFCE is a very classic desktop environment, it reminds me a lot of the good old days with classic MacOS, but has also a lot of features mostly seen with newer OS. XFCE is also very lightweight. It's a bit a paradox since I used XFCE also with very powerful hardware like my two i5-2500K based PCs (each with 16GB RAM). I don't understand why we should throw away system resources when we don't have to. The Aqua GUI of OSX looks nice, but it's also a massive waste of resources. You don't feel that so strongly since most GUI calculations are done by the GPU of the computer. Otherwise it would behave very slow.
I know even a few guys that are using their computers mostly from the command line. Some think a GUI is already a waste of resources.
Kind regards,
Christian
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 23:57:47 GMT
Hi Christian Don't worry about the other memory. I am quite happy with the performance now using RB . The playing around again with the other memory was mainly to try and satisfy myself that it was faulty memory, and not due to XP's problems with larger sized memory. IIRC, I used magazine guidelines to tweak the bios settings some time back.Of course, I could still have missed the obvious here. What I may do is gradually purchase separate items towards a new build at a later date. Kind Regards Alex
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 9, 2012 0:00:00 GMT
Sooner or later, I will need to upgrade the MB etc. anyway due to USB 3.0 etc. Just stick in a USB 3 PCIe will do if the MB is still usable and can take the new PCIe card. If you decided to change the MB, then I suggest keep this MB purely for AV. Maybe using Win7/32 maybe a bit too much for this MB although the spec say ok. Like I had said again and again, spec don't tell all as it's limited to what the actual spec test was and not in all possible REAL world usage like AV. If you still have XP/Vista around, loading it to use this MB purely for AV may be better. I will do that if I am you. But I may also try Linux too if I can find enough hirez AV programs for Linux. Anyway, I setup and try all OS for hirez AV when earning again. So in the mean time, I'm still a good big boy with my current Win 7 64. Perhaps not so good boy and just upgrade memory to max after finding out. Btw Elysion, when upgrading memory like DDR3, do we need to have the same speed for all the memory slabs? Like 1333 cannot be used with 1600, etc? Also, is there any other requirements that I must know for current memory in the DDR range as I have not keep up in this area of computer for a long long time from the very old requirement.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 9, 2012 0:08:01 GMT
OSX is a flavour of BSD-UNIX. Linux is not. But both systems are UNIX-based. That's what I actually mean. UNIX as I don't know what the other UNIX variations are until from you here although I know there are many UNIX variatons as used in different flavours to suit the various needs.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 9, 2012 0:20:26 GMT
You could be right Chong, I have just been looking at the beta version of Windows 8 and don't like what I see. I have downloaded a version of linux ubuntu 11, I think this may be the way forward. But it will probably take forever to learn and to find the most suitable programs for my needs but definitely worth a serious look. Chris, actually try all OS if you have enough computers, old or the latest SOTA, lying around and if those computer MBs meet the requirements of those OSs. I will have a different flavour of OSs for AV usage when I'm earning again and the interest is still there after. Now is crazy over network AV setup to make it crash less and load faster like normal. Not fully there yet but bit by bit coming as lots of configuration to optimise and ask around.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 1:11:02 GMT
Chong I am fully aware of that route. However there is no substitute for a new PC with USB 3.0 natively, when compared with a PC that is already several years old.Neither is networked audio a substitute for highest quality direct audio from an optimised PC. The other route just gives you good quality audio throughout the house, especially if Cat.6 or certain brands of Cat.7 are used, instead of Wireless, in comparison with direct audio from an optimised PC that gives Audiophile grade sound that can absolutely shit all over most affordable CD/DVD players,even when used with a very good DAC. The only thing so far that has been able to do justice to the SQ of .wav files saved to a Corsair Voyager, and played through my main Class A and speaker system has been Allan Pagan's little media PC. Normal CD/DVD players, even a modified Oppo DV981HD or a Samsung BR player, don't even come remotely close to that SQ in my main system.I still intend to run a 10' coax SPDIF lead under the floor between rooms to my SC DAC in the listening room to see how that goes. I will say it again just to annoy a few sceptics. Lossless files such as .flac don't sound as good as the original .wav files through a very high quality system. Copying .wav files to other HDDs/SSDs or servers causes an obvious SQ degradation via the better quality systems.However, if you use DL high res .flac files from HDtracks etc. and copy those to a server or external HDD/SSD powered by a high quality Linear PSU, then you may possibly gain over the original SMPS computer.That's very different to copying .wav files to another destination, whether using a Linear PSU, or SMPS. However, there will be a little less degradation if the destination drive is powered by a Linear PSU. Using something like a JLH PSU to further filter the SMPS supply will give results very close to using a Linear PSU with a JLH. I am still using a JLH internally to further filter the SMPS feed to a LG BR writer used for Ripping CDs/ DVD-A in Safe Mode. Alex
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 9, 2012 1:28:00 GMT
Oh, when I say network and NAS, it's mainly for storing and backup strategy. I will download those on the playlist for the day onto a DAS when playing as I don't want all the lags if still exist and not so audiophile quality. Anyway, network or not, it will be close. Of course, the best is still play from a SSD DAS with linear PS. I have that in mind still except the $$. Now the main thing is still to get the network working properly and optimised. I hate crashes and lags.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 13:08:33 GMT
Hi Alex,
I thought it was funny reading all this Linux stuff when I'm currently using Debian Linux using Iceweasal web browser. ;D
Are you monitoring the system and application event logs for errors? These usually give a good clue to problems.
On a side note, I just got an new laptop at work, to my surprise it came with Redhat Linux, with a VM option for Windows. Sign of the times? Squeezebox Touch uses Linux. My next computer....Raspberry Pi...Linux. Ipad, AppleTV...OS5...unix based.
regards Greg
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Post by jeffc on Jul 9, 2012 21:08:28 GMT
Hi Alex, With the lowest of low latency chart I've seen determined using DPC Latency Checker V1.3.0, I'd just leave your computer alone and be content that you must have it set up close to perfectly for audio, occasional sound glitches if doing lots of stuff as well as listening are par for the course. Aint broke, don't bugger with it. cheers.. jeffc
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 21:30:22 GMT
Hi Greg When I consider that you don't need to be a computer nerd to use Linux, and it enables me to do things like use present highly regarded Window's Audio software to play music from system memory without degradation, or use the equivalent of the heaps of paid creative and playback software that I presently use WITHOUT losing quality or versatility due to being designed ad hoc by a committee , then I will consider it. Many of the present freeware programs such as the "Swiss Army Knife" (Foobar 2000) are far too damn complicated for the average person to use to their full capabilities without numerous settings, and a good basic computer knowledge.They simply are not intuitive or polished enough for anything but enthusiast usage.Before Javier gets all hot under the collar , I would remind him of all the trouble he had to go to to provide a comprehensive guide, and the many questions he still gets asked about it's proper usage,as well as the many regular updates that he posts here in R.G. IMO, there simply isn't enough incentive to develop sophisticated ,intuitive and very high performance software without some compensating financial reward. Linux may be freeware presently, but it will in most likelihood eventually become another Apple or Microsoft. The days of something for nothing are slowly drawing to a close ! Software developers need to eat to survive , too. Regards Alex
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