Project Headphone amp build thread.

[Garage1217]

Your guys feedback is much appreciated!

Here she is in her final form... Of course without the black / gold PCB. You can see the cutouts now to adjust the bias trimmers with a jewelers screwdriver as well as the 6 / 12V voltage adjustment through the top of the chassis. Hope everyone digs it!

[Deleted]

You know Jeremy, my Sunrise (mk1) runs incredibly cool with the big heatsinks. It's worth having twin towers imo since it could possibly be the COOLEST tube amp around!!! It really is.

Now there's a good promo - the COOLEST tube amp, literally!!

I really like the Mk 1 It has a powerhouse sound so I guess the new version will kick ass with more demanding headphones . This could be a nice K701 tamer!!!

Presumably this version runs at the same kinds of temperature?

Have you a retail price for it yet?

[Garage1217]

Hey Ian, The Sunrise II pictured above has the same output / heat production as your Sunrise amplifier and is shipping just like the above. The much higher powered Horizon amp is quite a different beast and the heatsinks are twice the size / double stacked The Horizon amp would be a good match to the 701's as it will feature 120R output impedance as a selection. The current price plan on the horizon with tube and power supply will be $249.99 for a kit and $299 for a built amp. This could change a bit depending on what sort of prices I can get on the 48V power supplies in QTY as they are not cheap. Bang for the buck is very important to me so will do what I can to get the price down if possible.

Regards,
Jeremy

[Deleted]

Very nice Jeremy, should be superb with the same pedigree as the mk1.

Lovely, but i shall wait for the Project Horizon.

Mick.

[Garage1217]

Right on Mick! The Horizon will look practically identical. PS caps and output caps are 5mm taller on Horizon and the heatsinks are double the size height wise. Also two smaller heatsinks are added internally under the top cover. Should have photos very soon of a Horizon completed!

Frans and I really worked our tails off on these two new designs. I feel like a new parent all over again.

[Deleted]

The much higher powered Horizon amp is quite a different beast and the heatsinks are twice the size / double stacked The Horizon amp would be a good match to the 701's as it will feature 120R output impedance as a selection.

Sorry Jeremy, I thought the new amp WAS the new Sunrise but it's the Horizon.

That's the high powered version I was thinking of!! Sounds really good; especially if it helps to get a grip of the K701. I've fought with that headphone for ages and just can't settle with it. I veer more towards the K601 for a more 'neutral experience.

I think with valve designs, you get to a price point where you kind of feel uncomfortable with it being a valve design unless it's one of those esoteric ones!!! The mid price level is a difficult one.

I guess I've found valve amps suit me up to a certain price level and then after that, I get a bit insecure with the old bottles!!

Mind you, I did have a £24,000 set up on loan in my house and I managed to blow a valve which almost brought me out in a sweat because of the cost!! That seriously affected me with valves.

I also had a Little Dot blow up on me. That scarred me mentally!!!!

[xerxes]

I really must drag myself kicking and screaming into the 1930s and try out a valve amp.

[Deleted]

Jan 28, 2012 21:21:01 GMT xerxes said:

I really must drag myself kicking and screaming into the 1930s and try out a valve amp.

Valves were doing well in the 60's and 70's in TV's.

You'll never know what you missed until you hear one.

I'm thinking of going back to 78 rpm. and a nice big horn speaker in the corner.

[kkqewl]

Hi,

New to the forum here, just purchased a Sunrise headphone amp a few months ago and I am really imprssed with the sound.

So far I have done the following mods and noticed an improvement in SQ.

- Amperex Bugle boy 6Dj8 NOS tube
- upgraded PS & ouput caps caps to Elna Silmic
- upgarded input caps 2uf Panasonic Polypro.


I would like to upgared some of the resistors , can someone tell me which resistors are in the signal path and would be worthwhile swapping.

Thanks in advance.

[Garage1217]

All resistors in the signal path are Vishay - Dale Type RN .25w 1% precision (very low noise) resistors just to note. As with anything parts wise, try out different parts and see what suites you best if you want to tweak things. I put in the kits and built amps the exact parts I use. But that does not mean the next person will not prefer his specific capacitors or resistors over what I use or another uses as we all have our favs. If you want to try others, you could look at caddock, texas components audio series, rikens, mills, holco, Vishay bulk metal foil (not cheap)... lots out there. Glad you are enjoying the amp!

Ian, no worries. 2 different amps Horizon will follow the Sunrise II release a bit later in February to the end of Feb... Will see how it goes.

I can say, that is a bit more $ in audio equipment than I have ever had in my living room at one time, I think I would be nervous as well! And what happened to the little dot?!?

[Deleted]

The Little Dot taught me to be wary of heat build up and valve amps big time!!!

I left it on overnight. Forgot to switch off and next day it was still running but it was a hot day here in UK, believe it or not.

That evening, I sat in an armchair beside it, and thought it was radiating heat from the casing. Because it was hot, I thought it was just running hotter.

Started listening, turned up volume and it started fizzing, cracking and then some injun inside started sending messages via smoke signals. Valve popped and components were burning.

Couldn't switch off so I had to rip the plug out of the wall which was very warm.

The board looked like the film set from WallE the robot,

After that - I decided no more Chinese Cracker Amps and perhaps steer away from valves.

Then a private dealer set up this mega system in my house and blow me, a really expensive valve blew.

I went into a faint because of the cost but he laughed it off, replaced the valve and said, 'C'est la Vie'!!!

Then I got a V8 which I liked but felt that for a tube amp, it was a bit thin.

Following that, Mike modded a V2 for me which I really liked but it had a very low level hum. It was so low, that when I told Mike about it, I thought he wouldn't hear it. He told me to sent it back and went to town on it.

It came back so silent that I couldn't tell if it was on or off!!!

I'd never heard any tube amp as quiet as this except for the expensive speaker stuff I'd had, but it got me hooked on valve sound.

Now I have a V1, V2, V8 and Sunrise plus x10 and one of Mike's SE Little Pinkie's and an older Little Pinkie.

The Pinkies made me realise how important the power supply is on a valve amp.

However, I kind of retained a fear of valves and their robustness plus their susceptibility to noise.

I know now though that they can be silenced and all of them are black, including the Sunrise and produce that 'twangy' elastic band type valve sound which I love!!!

[kkqewl]

Thanks for the feedback,...... in addition to the 68R and 12R which other resistors are in the signal path ?

Jan 29, 2012 7:14:47 GMT Garage1217 said:

All resistors in the signal path are Vishay - Dale Type RN .25w 1% precision (very low noise) resistors just to note. As with anything parts wise, try out different parts and see what suites you best if you want to tweak things. I put in the kits and built amps the exact parts I use. But that does not mean the next person will not prefer his specific capacitors or resistors over what I use or another uses as we all have our favs. If you want to try others, you could look at caddock, texas components audio series, rikens, mills, holco, Vishay bulk metal foil (not cheap)... lots out there. Glad you are enjoying the amp!

Ian, no worries. 2 different amps Horizon will follow the Sunrise II release a bit later in February to the end of Feb... Will see how it goes.

Iquote]

[Garage1217]

The only others besides the 68 and 12R directly in-line with the signal path would be the 1K's on the input and 220R gate resistors. Very low qty of parts in-line with the signal path.

[XTRProf]

Is there a mono version to the higher power Horizon? How much power is Horizon giving out? Thanks.

[Deleted]

Jan 30, 2012 7:25:37 GMT XTRProf said:

Is there a mono version to the higher power Horizon?

No, just buy 2 of them and join the grounds of both amps.
a channel separation of 60dB should be good enough and it will at least meet those specs.

Jan 30, 2012 7:25:37 GMT XTRProf said:

How much power is Horizon giving out? Thanks.

That depends on output resistance setting (2 Ohm or 120 Ohm) and used headphone (impedance)
the horizon is still under development.

The max power for the higher Ohmic HP's will be considerably higher than Sunrise.
The max power in low Ohmic headphones will be slightly below that of the Sunrise.

[XTRProf]

Jan 30, 2012 7:46:36 GMT @solderdude said:

The max power in low Ohmic headphones will be slightly below that of the Sunrise.

Thanks. Then how can it be called a higher power version technically? It must give higher power for both HP ohmages to be called a higher power version of Sunrise.

As you have known, I always wanted a higher power mono version of Sunrise to make sure all HPs can be "blasted" comfortably and for the ultimate sound.

[Deleted]

its a higher voltage version.
It will give more power to high-Ohmic headphones and about the same or slightly less in low Ohmic headphones.
In essence it can drive more headphones to much more than sufficient SPL levels because of that.
The sunrise already can give more than sufficient power to low Ohmic headphones, even high Ohmic headphones get enough power to go loud.
The horizon just adds around 7dB on top of that for higher Ohmic headphones.

The version that untill now only consists of a prototype (OPA-88) is a high POWER version.
This has an opamp output stage so you will probably dismiss it as not being able to sound good because of that.

In case you increase the size of the heatsinks (considerably) and use a higher wattage power supply and change a resistor value you can make this amp also give more power than the Sunrise on low Ohmic headphones.
It's a trade off ... costs versus needs versus dissipated heat (power consumption) in a single ended class A design.

[XTRProf]

Jan 30, 2012 8:31:09 GMT @solderdude said:

The horizon just adds around 7dB on top of that for higher Ohmic headphones.

That should be sufficient already if applicable across the board for all HP ohmages.

Jan 30, 2012 8:31:09 GMT @solderdude said:

The version that untill now only consists of a prototype (OPA-88) is a high POWER version.
This has an opamp output stage so you will probably dismiss it as not being able to sound good because of that.

Aw, why put in an OPA? Give it a power transistor/FET output stage. Btw, I'm not saying the OPA will not sound good. It's not the ultimate. Have heard enough to refrain from that. Give me a mono and hybrid tube/power transistor/fet/mosfet anytime. Looks like I have to pass another time until it progresses to that stage. I'm sure it will as a further development to it.

[Deleted]

Jan 30, 2012 8:47:58 GMT XTRProf said:

Aw, why put in an OPA? Give it a power transistor/FET output stage.

Looks like I have to pass another time until it progresses to that stage. I'm sure it will as a further development to it.

If it were that easy I would have done so.
technical issues prevent it from being that simple.

It is highly unlikely Jeremy is going to release a much more expensive and bigger design than the current ones.
The OPA551 is used for several reasons.

For now only the Sunrise and horizon are in the pipeline and the OPA version (in 2 voltage versions) will follow.

I suggest you use a Panda or A-HA as driver and simply use a tubebuffer or sunrise II as a buffer before the SS headamp to create what you want.
Dual mono ofcoarse and built acc to ZEN rules ;D

[XTRProf]

Jan 30, 2012 9:06:48 GMT @solderdude said:

I suggest you use a Panda or A-HA as driver and simply use a tubebuffer or sunrise II as a buffer before the SS headamp to create what you want.

Heh, heh, heh, the AHA will suffice for now. Hmm, seems I have to look for a tube with traffo HA until then. Well, it must be as powerful as Panda or AHA or even the Horizon for all HP ohmage. Any recommendation?

Prof Frans, you seems to be a fan of ICs from your history of designing things with them. ;D

[Deleted]

Jan 30, 2012 10:06:07 GMT XTRProf said:

Frans, you seems to be a fan of ICs from your history of designing things with them. ;D

and with good reason

We simply are not in agreement here, that's all.
Let's leave it at that and keep this thread for Sunrise builds.
If you want to continue this discussion please make a new thread.

[wadiaman]

Jeremy,you did mention back in December that a "mod" to the Mk1 Sunrise was in the pipeline,any news on this yet ?

[Deleted]

It consists of a cathode resistor and cathode cap added.

It will only improve things IF you use the amp with the input caps bypassed and ECC88 (and derivatives) are used.
When you have the caps in, so not bypassed (recommended) the advantages of this mod are less audible, if audible at all.

It is the only difference between Sunrise and Sunrise-II in the signal path/handling.
Sunrise-II is easier to adjust (bias, 6V/12V and output resistance) and has a different relay circuit and added output RCA's.

Jeremy will know more about the mods (physically)

[Deleted]

Jan 31, 2012 12:34:54 GMT @solderdude said:

It consists of a cathode resistor and cathode cap added.

It will only improve things IF you use the amp with the input caps bypassed and ECC88 (and derivatives) are used.
When you have the caps in, so not bypassed (recommended) the advantages of this mod are less audible, if audible at all.

It is the only difference between Sunrise and Sunrise-II in the signal path/handling.
Sunrise-II is easier to adjust (bias, 6V/12V and output resistance) and has a different relay circuit and added output RCA's.

Jeremy will know more about the mods (physically)

Hi, Frans

After a long absence, I am back. To make a long story short, I have had a few distractions during the last few months -- unfortunately not few enough to allow me the opportunity to participate in this forum. I regret to say that I haven't yet made the filter you designed for my SHP9000's, but I will get around to putting it together soon. I am very much interested in the mod you describe above, so as per your suggestion, I am addressing the following to Jeremy:

Jeremy, I would love to hear more, and am anxious to know more about the mod mentioned above, for I use the Telefunken ECC88 tubes almost all the time, and my default setting on the amp is to bypass the caps.

All the Best!
Israel

[Garage1217]

Hey Israel, been talking to you in PM land. For others, the mod on the original Sunrise has turned out a little more complicated than I wanted it to be and will require the removal of the tube socket. For anyone that wants the mod done, that uses the amp mainly in BPC mode which will be the only real benefit, I will do the mod for free if you send in your amp. Shoot me a PM if you want it done!