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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 8:41:17 GMT
I have been in negotiations and should be able to provide the Panda kit amp to UK Rock Grotto members for £45 shipped or £60 shipped with a high quality toroidal transformer included. If you want the hook up wire, the silver loaded "future" solder, a headphone socket and a pair of phono sockets it will be £75 shipped.... Would anybody be interested? Yes, i would, the full monty please. Can you also get the enclosures at a reduced price. Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 9:32:30 GMT
Thanks Mike, shows I was reading the thread regularly Seriously, I would still be sitting with a PCB part populated as I said before, without your guidance. Plus of course we all wouldn't have Pandas in the first place Syd
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 9:53:55 GMT
Syd, Judging from the pictures it looks like you did not install any (series) output resistors......... You're right of course Frans. I don't have any resistors of the correct type/values but I had read all of your and Mike's guidance about this aspect of the build. I intended to go over the posts and ensure I had understood everything prior to ordering some. Meantime I couldn't resist having a quick try Your post is a very useful summary so I'm off now to place an order. Syd
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Oct 12, 2010 10:31:42 GMT
Thats cheap ! Because of the danish postal service and custom rules i am ending up paying about 75£ shipped for the kit only If i will need a second one, this would surely be a better alternative! Sorry but this offer is UK only The cost to ship abroad will add a fair bit more onto the price..... I will be buying in bulk and my margins will be very small. You are one evil man! I will PM you to find out what it would cost to have one built (fully modded and with an attenuator) and shipped to the colonies. Just a question for now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 11:35:40 GMT
For all those who intend using an extension rod for the Alps pot, the standard PCB stand offs supplied with my kit (8mm+thread) are 7mm to short, 15mm+thread is require to make it line up centrally with the volume knob hole in the facia. Incidentally, you will need to open hole out to 10mm in facia, to accept the extension rod bush supplied with the ex-kit recommended by Mike. Mick. Mike, Would it be possible to either start a new thread appertaining to all other aspects of the Panda, and leave this one for the build only, or vice versa, as its getting difficult to find build information amongst all the general chit chat contained in the 46 pages so far.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 12:19:09 GMT
Incidentally, you will need to open hole out to 10mm in facia, to accept the extension rod bush supplied with the ex-kit recommended by Mike. Mick. The pre-drilled hole was what put me off initially fitting the attenuator which was too large but when I then tried the extension's bush it was bigger still. So I bit the bullet and not having your facilities Mick I just went slow and careful. It didn't drill through perfectly so the recessed knob rubbed a bit but a little spacer above the top part of the attenuator thread sorted it. Syd
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 12:20:58 GMT
I thought the chat was quite good
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 12:42:17 GMT
I thought the chat was quite good Whoooops, that would have upset a few Syd, a simple spelling mistake now modified. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 15:57:53 GMT
I thought the chat was quite good Whoooops, that would have upset a few Syd, a simple spelling mistake now modified. ;D ;D ;D ;D I was about to apologise until I saw the first word!!! ;D Sorry. I'll keep quiet Mick.
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 13, 2010 0:15:28 GMT
Would anybody be interested? Soon as I got some of this other stuff finished and out of the way yes
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 13, 2010 7:23:01 GMT
For all those who intend using an extension rod for the Alps pot, the standard PCB stand offs supplied with my kit (8mm+thread) are 7mm to short, 15mm+thread is require to make it line up centrally with the volume knob hole in the facia. Correct..... BUT, if you use the 2 x standoffs that come with the switch.... these are the correct size Just a case of using two of the smaller standoffs packed with 6 x M3 washers.... you are then perfect height for the extension rod. Correct again.... this is pretty easy though, just drill through with a 10MM HSS drill bit. When mounting the bush it's a good idea to pack it with grease before fitting the rod.... this makes for a nice smooth action when turning the pot. Sure thing Mick and feel free to start such a thread.... you don't need to ask permission mate! My face is swollen up like a balloon today (an abcess I think) and the pain is excrutiating so I won't have time to sort out a new thread today.... gotta get my arse to a Doctor or dentist.... I agree, though, so start another thread Mick.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 13, 2010 21:21:46 GMT
Hi Mick, Yes, I would be able to but the shipping would be a KILLER if I were to buy, say, 50 enclosures.... the shipping would probably work out more costly than the 50 enclosures. I will enquire about this but with weighty packages containing 50 x enclosures the customs snoopers would most likely slap a nice bit of duty on it. The only other way round it is to become a European distributor but I'm not sure I want to go down that road either.... To be totally honest, and blunt, with some of you guys.... the performance this amp gives is way beyond anything you could buy in the shops and totally dumps all over some other "all in one kits" I could mention.... We are talking $190 USD ( £119 GBP) for the "panda amp whole machine kit".... that's the kit with all you need, the "complete amp" kit. And you are hoping to get it "cheaper" than that?! I doubt you will ever see this on sale for £50 or so... if anything I think it will go up considerably. I "could" wheel and deal and buy up a "quantity" of these and offer them up at a slightly lower price but I would be doing so at my own risk, my own time.... it could become a logistical nightmare and really isn't a viable proposition IMO.... to save a few quid (and it would only be a few) I don't think it's worth it.... if you want the "full monty" kit then pay the man his money and let him ship it over direct to your door. If were talking a couple of thousand quid for an amp and we could shave £300 off the price then it may be worth doing but there seriously isn't a lot left to "shave" off the Panda.... you point me in the direction of a kit amp (minus enclosure) that costs this little yet has so many quality parts in it... can't be done can it? I already class my fully built up Panda as "priceless".... I certainly don't look at it / listen to it and think "£119".... NO way!! I don't think the Panda should be devalued, if anything the kit is WAY too cheap.... I would like to see it increase in price to reflect the quality that it is.... if they were selling any cheaper HiFiDIYNet would be making a loss on the parts cost. Yes, it's cheaper in China but an ALPS RK27 is still an ALPS RK27, a Nichicon Gold tune is still a Nichicon gold tune, a double sided top quality board with gold plated pads is still a double sided top quality board with gold plated pads etc. etc. etc. Cost up a similar specced amp with same parts buying from the "UK" and you would be lucky if you get the ALPS blue velvet, the Nichicon gold tune caps and the heatsinks for the same money! The pot alone would cost you £15 in the UK (with £3.99 postage)... £18.99 for the potentiometer alone!!! We used to think that some of the Chinese parts must be "fakes".... yup, some of them were (and some of them still are) but I can assure you that every single part in a Panda kit is the real McCoy. How can they sell so cheap? HiFiDIYnet is the largest headphone "community" in China and they buy in bulk so get end column pricing on all of the parts. Think of it like this (this is an extreme example)..... the people behind the Panda have the buying power of the likes of coca cola whereas your everyday bod in the UK (Graham Slee for example) has the buying power of your local milkman...... Hi-Fi in China is HUGE and it is the largest market in the world.... the big boys over there really know how to pile it high and sell it low.... I'm no economist but I'm sure an economist could explain how all this is going to have an effect on "our" economy very soon We have ALL benefitted from "cheap Chinese goods" the past few years, we have (quite literally) "never had it so good".... all that is about to end in the next couple of years... we will still be an open market to sell "cheap" goods to but the likes of bulk buyers selling quality audio parts at less than parts cost will be a thing of the past.... their own market is growing and the richer they become the less reliant they will be on our few measly (worthless) dollars / pounds...... I think this is the best amp kit that has EVER come onto the market and I am certainly not "quibbling" over the cost
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Post by clausdk on Oct 13, 2010 23:04:31 GMT
This evening I decided to listen a bit more.. source PC-->Ibasso D10-->panda-->JVC DX1000 Music Right now ? "Angie" With the royal stones Earlier "Belfast Child" (thinking of Dave ) with Simple Minds "Made in europe" With caroline henderson "Con te partiro" with Andrea Bochelli "Don't cry for me Argentina" With Sinnead Oconnor And a lot more of my favorite tunes.. This is an incredible good amp. The bass goes so deep it sounds like someone is stomping on the floor, I can almost feel the impact in my upper body, the JVCs is bassheavy but with the Panda it is never bloated or too much.. The details are crazy, everything is being taken out, polished and is left to shine.. Only thing that buggers me is a stupid fly that seems to like sitting on the varm wood, I can only shoo it away because I would never use a flyswatter on my Panda (it is a protected species).. The next one will be with an stepped attenuator I will try breeding them when I get two, lets just hope it is not two guys, it could be fun having lots of small pandas running everywhere in the house ;D ;D Have you tried that Mike ?? Will Ian be recieving a Panda with child ?? All will be answered in the next episode of SOAP
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2010 5:14:33 GMT
;D I have the baby here already Claus - IBasso T3. Lovely little thing. Very cute. I'll need to give the Panda some time before writing because it's raw/new. To me it sounds as though it has a lot of Rowlocks (bo;;ocks) behind the sound. I don't think the Panda should be devalued, if anything the kit is WAY too cheap.... I would like to see it increase in price to reflect the quality that it is.... if they were selling any cheaper HiFiDIYNet would be making a loss on the parts cost.I think we all get so engrossed with sound that we very often don't look at vfm alongside. The IBasso portable retails at £109 with an analogue pot and £129 (I think) with digital. This is a portable amp which I feel is a great little thing. But if you put it into context, the Panda costing roughly the same ....... I paid £400 or £500 for a Solo. I paid a lot for an Earmax. (I dread to think) Is it £200 for a Nuvo? This is nothing to do with the makers of these amps, this is simply price. Even if you understand electronics and parts and what sounds good etc., there's no denying that this package represents excellent value unless you can build it cheaper yourselves. One thing I've always found with amp makers is that they often run gear down (because it's not theirs) but if you ask them to make a better one for you, the cost suddenly rockets up. One guy I know who makes gear suggested I improve my old Solo. It was expensive etc. Then I asked him if he could either modify or rebuild the Solo. He offered a new amp at £900. (I said no of course!) So putting the Panda into context with other gear really shows what good value you get with this amp. Mine will be here soon and I personally can't wait to hear it. Curiousity has always been a weakness of mine. At that kind of price, it's cheap to be curious and you never know, it may deliver a surprise .......
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2010 7:21:36 GMT
Yes, quiet right Mike, point taken, not worth considering if the customs decide to have there "pound of flesh", i think they are good value anyway, but its always nice to get an extra discount, no worries.
Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2010 8:08:28 GMT
Hi all My panda's up and running : ;D had a quick listen last night and i have to say that it sounds fantastic. value for money? it's an ABSOLUTE STEAL the last time i heard something this good it cost a fortune. thanks mike for the heads up on this amp. I've ordered another kit to play with (rats it was just before mikes offer to supply them) but i think it's going to be tough to improve the sound which is already superb, I'll let it burn in and see where that goes take care
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Post by mingo on Oct 14, 2010 15:02:44 GMT
I have been in negotiations and should be able to provide the Panda kit amp to UK Rock Grotto members for £45 shipped or £60 shipped with a high quality toroidal transformer included. If you want the hook up wire, the silver loaded "future" solder, a headphone socket and a pair of phono sockets it will be £75 shipped.... Would anybody be interested? Is it to be taken seriously that that you will not send to Rock Grotto members abroad (in my case Denmark) even if we pay additional postage? I could use 2 kits. If not would you kindly refer me to where I can buy? I tried using a former link but it was out of date. Anyway, absolutely splendid work, Mike.
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Post by bizzie on Oct 14, 2010 16:31:05 GMT
My kit has been shipped with 8 1.47k 1/4w dale resistors and 4 1.5k 1/2w resistors but there are not any 1.5 1/4w resistors has there been a change to the kit or do you think that he just ran out of 1.5k and substituted 1.47k the board still shows 1.5k is it OK to fit these 1.47k instead of the 1.5k.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2010 17:54:54 GMT
My kit has been shipped with 8 1.47k 1/4w dale resistors and 4 1.5k 1/2w resistors but there are not any 1.5 1/4w resistors has there been a change to the kit or do you think that he just ran out of 1.5k and substituted 1.47k the board still shows 1.5k is it OK to fit these 1.47k instead of the 1.5k. 1k5 and 1k47 are the same (only 2 % difference) a 'normal resistor has a 5% tolerance the 1.47 are 1% so still well within limits. In the part where they are used the 'equality' of the resistors is of bigger importance then the actual value. don't worry about it. the resistance value of the 4 1.5k resistors is of no importance as well and may be between 1k and 2k without any measurable effects as the zener diode determines the voltage and the 1k5 only 'supplies' more then enough current for it to bias properly.
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Post by bizzie on Oct 14, 2010 18:17:03 GMT
Thanks for that I thought they should be OK but just wanted to make sure before I soldered them in to save the hassle of removing them if a mistake had been made
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2010 18:50:08 GMT
Well done. So's mine. I see what Mike means about weight and postage.
From first switch on, it's obvious that this is a good amp. I've quickly run through so many different types of music and the openness and sheer clarity of what you get is unbelievably good. Imaging is frightening and I can hear a conductor's clothing rustling in Mahler's Second Symphony that I wasn't so aware of before. It actually warns you of a shock chord because he moves just ahead of the beat!!
Bass is deep and double basses can be heard with fantastic clarity - the scrape with the bassy sound. Timpani are thunderous and you can feel the weight of sound.
This is coming through on a K701. It's more weighty. Better imaging and less hard treble. It's tempting to turn it up all of the time until you realise that it's really too loud and not going harsh so I keep backing it off a bit.
It is in a quality league of amps without a doubt and it smacks you straight away.
This is on a new amp not used for many hours so once it's properly warmed up and burned in, it's going to be a stunner.
The kits are an absolute bargain. No doubt about it. It's one of the widest, spaced out sounds I've heard from an amp other than really high end stuff with the bonus of a gut wrenching bottom end.
I feel the need to get a W1000 but mustn't spend the money......or an HD800.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2010 19:43:29 GMT
I have been in negotiations and should be able to provide the Panda kit amp to UK Rock Grotto members for £45 shipped or £60 shipped with a high quality toroidal transformer included. If you want the hook up wire, the silver loaded "future" solder, a headphone socket and a pair of phono sockets it will be £75 shipped.... Would anybody be interested? Is it to be taken seriously that that you will not send to Rock Grotto members abroad (in my case Denmark) even if we pay additional postage? I could use 2 kits. If not would you kindly refer me to where I can buy? I tried using a former link but it was out of date. Anyway, absolutely splendid work, Mike. Here is the link mingo. Mick. cgi.ebay.com/HiEnd-Headphone-AMP-KIT-Drive-AKG-and-Sennheiser-good-/180566677347?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0a9cd763
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2010 20:47:14 GMT
Ian Having listened to TonyG's broken in versions of both, I would say that the W1000 is only marginally better than the 701. I wish I could afford the 800s though. Alex P.S. Were you listening to the CD or the rip ? Your Panda should not improve too much more, as Mike would have made sure that it was nigh on perfect before sending it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2010 21:15:05 GMT
Ian Having listened to TonyG's broken in versions of both, I would say that the W1000 is only marginally better than the 701. I wish I could afford the 800s though. Alex P.S. Were you listening to the CD or the rip ? Your Panda should not improve too much more, as Mike would have made sure that it was nigh on perfect before sending it. I was listening to the CD via the Naim 5i Alex. The amp has a slight 'calming' effect on the K701 tonally, but the slam is amazing. The gain isn't as high as I expected but it's loud enough to push them quite hard. It sounds a lot more balanced via the Panda for my ears. The 38 ohm adapter makes a very tiny difference to the top as well. It's minute but takes a little top away from somewhere up there. I actually prefer it without the adapter and I'm not sure why. It just feels more comfortable. I think it's a good match actually and the feeling of 'space' in the mix is absolutely stunning. That Mahler CD is a difficult one to reproduce because of the enormous dynamics but with the Panda in line, it seems as though it's hardly working, even on the loud passages (Although I still hear a brass 'rasp' on the first CD in particular) Because it sounds so effortless, you start turning up and before long, it hits you that it's playing too loud but really clean which fools you into thinking that it's playing quieter than it actually is. I've only experienced that with much more expensive gear and never heard it on cheap stuff. Low end stuff seems to focus at one place before it then turns edgy, but this keeps going with no sign of fatigue in the sound. It gets louder and sounds better but also sounds fantastic low down in volume too. Unusual in an amp at this price. The K701's are really analytical and I can detect very minor differences with them, but my feeling is that there may be more in the amp that could be resolved even better by going up from the K701. The HD600 is hovering on my ears with the bass attack and slam. It's a real beauty of an amp - been listening all evening and it's just effortless. I think every home should have one in every room!!! It's really not placebo. I'm too old for that. This one has been done right and the sound from it is just stunning. There's also a really lovely 'inner' sound to timps that is very rare to hear on a headphone - if you hear them live, they give a note but there's also a mellow kind of rumble behind the sound. Good speakers pick it up but this is the first time I've heard it in a headphone. You normally hear the 'note' of the timp, but not the other tones mixed in with the fundamental. They really come through so that you almost 'feel' the depth of timpanis and the bass drum in the Mahler clearly has a totally different timbre that the amp is pointing out with absolute ease. The 'rubbery' bass sound that I often refer to is really the fact that basses (and timps) produce a note and lots of harmonics. The harmonics kind of give the sound a timbre or tone which this amp is demonstrating really well. It follows the initial attacks and in most cheaper stuff, you don't hear it that easily. Listen to the CD Alex, (First movement) You should hear a different type of rumble from the bass drum in comparison to the timpani. The bass drum gives out a very low thud while the timps have all these harmonics.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 15, 2010 8:14:05 GMT
I noticed that too Ian but it gives you a good range on the volco.... I was listening to Pink Floyd, The Wall, and it was at the 1 o' clock position, wasn't even loud, just comfortable. Have you tried it with the HD-250ll? I went over to the HD-600 from the 250's and, seriously, asked myself "where the hell is the bass?!! I just couldn't listen to them! Every other phone I have just doesn't do it for me now... the HD-250ll is just soooooo extraordinarily subterranean in the bass dept. that listening to anything else makes it appear that the bass has been well and truly sucked out of the mix. For the first time, in a long while, I listened to Shpongle's "ineffable mysteries from shpongleland" (I never did get to grips with this album) and you know what? Absolutely LOVED it!! The Panda seemed to go into the mix and "unmix" it (if that makes sense?) laying all the individual parts in easy to pinpoint locations.... it's as if the Panda "defragged" the mix.... so good that I listened to it a second time! Would you like me to adjust the gain on your Ian? Give you a bit more grunt at lower volume settings.... or are you quite happy with the stock gain? You say that every household should have a Panda (I agree ).... I say that every headphone listener should have a pair of Sennheiser HD-250ll.... I thought they were good already but, with the Panda driving them, they are furkin' mindblowing headphones... no other way of putting it! My Panda has about 500 hours on it now and it is definitely a lot more open and relaxed than it was when I first listened to it. It has developed into very musical presentation with an almost "liquid" quality.... I know what you mean by the rubber band bass, almost polypropylene in nature.... not dry like paper, but lovely and elastic yet TIGHT. The mids are the best I have heard, full stop, the sheer detail and the "placement" of that detail is second to none.... you don't have to concentrate and dig into the mix to pick it out, it's there for all to see (or should that be "hear" You mention "High end" Ian..... open the lid and have a look.... the Panda IS pretty High end! Just ask yourself what you would pay for that if you were buying it from a bespoke Hi-Fi boutique There is nothing "low end" pretending to be "high end" about the Panda.... it IS high end Anyways, Ian, glad it arrived safely and I hope you have many many years of musical pleasure from it. Mike.
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