Replaced tubes in V8

[PinkFloyd]

Totally off topic but the best thing for the UK (IMO) is a deal between the Labour party and Lib dems..... I wouldn't trust that little ass bandit "Cameron" or the rest of the Tories..... Brown and party know their onions.... best to stick with the devil you know.....we can only recover with good government and a Lib/ con government is the worst possible scenario IMO.

[krisno]

I will delete these posts tomorrow... i just want the guys to se it, i think it is very important.

[Deleted]

Sorry for this - but just want to say this: ANY INFLATION THAT OCCURS IS CAUSED BY THE CENTRAL BANK PRINTING MONEY OUT OF THIN AIR TO FINANCE GOVERMENT EXPENDITURE.

I disagree with that. One of the main causes of inflation is GREED and lack of morals on the part of major corporations and institutions such as banks etc., as well as many individuals. The big supermarket chains and banks, as well as the financial sector in general is never happy with existing profit levels. CEOs of major corporations are more often than not receiving OBSCENE renumeration when compared to their employeees, even when they don't make a profit ! Of course, greedy shareholders are also partly to blame, as are the oil rich nations who can afford to sell petrol in their own countries for 8 or 9 U.S. cents a gallon, yet keep on forcing up the price per barrel to others.
Far too many people these days want everything NOW, and are not prepared to work hard and wait until they can afford it, like earlier generations had to.

[krisno]

I just removed these threads. Its out of topic. Its just very frustrating and nothing to do with you SandyK.. Great, the EU just announced they will print up 6000 billion euros to rescue EU. Haha, its not EU people its rescuing, its the EU goverments.

Please enjoy these 3-4minutes.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f3kOwvWEro&feature=player_embedded

This is one of the better free talking economists we have. Listen to what he says about central banks.

Well well, anyways - back to xcans.

P.S. Just say this - Musical Fidelity makes good products. Their X-cans were best in market, therefore they earned a profit. They are not 'evil' - they are instead fabulous. What is evil is the goverment and centralbankers. Goverments look after their people, not like sons and daugthers, but like a pigfarmer looking after his pigs.

[Deleted]

I just removed these threads. Its out of topic. Its just very frustrating and nothing to do with you SandyK..

Krisno
When you keep making incorrect statements that are based purely on your own flawed experiences,(assuming you are referring to my comments on the opamp "roll off") I WILL post comments. Other people reading those comments may think they are correct,when they have little basis in fact.
If you don't like it , then that's tough.

If you wish to get on your soapbox like MERTON does, please consider doing it in a more appropiate area, where even more members are likely to exchange views different to your own.Perhaps even suggesting that the U.K. s problems have only got much worse since joining the over regulated E.U. and being dragged down by other poorly performing E.U. members such as Greece?
SandyK

P.S.

Isnt it just tubes on the pre, and opamp on power?

NO ! It is a more complex circuit. You could ask Frans or Robert to give an indepth explanation.

[krisno]

SandyK I never disagree or questioned with your audio/opamp/tech knowledge .... and I never will. I dont know anything about it. I just listened to a few opa 2134 headphone amps, and that is how they sounded in my ears. And I see that other people state this on forums as well, regarding the opa 2134....

But regarding to economics I can see very quickly it is not your field, but I wont make a discussion about it. All I am saying is that living standards comes from production! and production comes from investments! and investments comes from savings! .... so when our goverments, which created the financial crisis with too much debt last 20 years, cut rates even more, and print money(quantitative easing) they try to force us to consume even more, and save even less.... and overconsumption leads to failure of nations. Its is quite simple and logical, but politicians are not logical, they are liars, and they dont care for anyone but their own 4 more next years.

That is a politicians job! To be reelected! not to make a nice future for country. But ultimatly its the peoples fault if they dont crush their own goverment or vote in new people.

U.K's problems have little to do with EU as you control your own currency. Your problem comes from within! It comes from big goverment spending, low interest rates, printing of money and people consuming above their means..... its the same in whole western world!

But lets not discuss it anymore.... rather tell me more about the X-can V1 ;-)

[krisno]

I think, a gift for myself would be this.

A X-can V1 circuit board clone, made of highest quality goldplated circuit paths. Filled with the best resistors out there. The best capacitators. And a high quality opamp with a little pinkie.

wonder, can one order a custom orderd circuit paths anywhere? From Taiwan or something? Probably be very expensive, and alot of hassle.

Kris

[Deleted]

But regarding to economics I can see very quickly it is not your field

Krisno
Obviously, neither is it yours ! I am willing to bet that the U.K. will survive and still have a better standard of living than the majority of European nations !

people consuming above their means..... its the same in whole western world!

That we can agree on ! It's not just Governments though.
It's the "GREED IS GOOD" mentality so prevalent these days.
SandyK

[krisno]

economics actually is.

We have had GREED for 2000 years, so tell me - if GREED is problem - why did it go out of control now, but not in 18xx, 19xx or even 17xx?

The answer is that GREED in markets always have to be counterweighed with FEAR. The FEAR of loosing money. The fear of not getting money back when you lend to people who cant afford it.

So why did we have this GREED, and where did the FEAR balacing this go??

THE CENTRALBANKS REMOVED 'FEAR' FROM THE MARKETS BY SAVING THE BANKS EVERY TIME THE ECONOMY SOURED THE LAST 25 YEARS.... they removed FEAR from the GREED/FEAR balance. So we then only had GREED left... and not only that. by building up this pure greed scenario, they also cut interest rates to ever low in 2002. They fueled GREED, then they gave everyone alot of cheap money with low interest rates(the central banks).... it created the global housing bubble, and led to financial crisis.

There you have it in simple terms. Read history or something SandyK. You really dont get the facts straight, but I cant blame you, because many others dont either.

UK will not have better living standards that for instance Germany which actually produce real goods. and Singapore is actually 30% richer than UK. Did you know that? Singapore which was just a hole in the dirt 40 years ago. Free market capitalism built singapore. Look at it now. Even norwegians go there now to find work.

We have not had capitalism last 20 years. We have had a planned economy and socialism. This is a failure of planeconomy(which also failed in sovjet unionen) and socialism.

I bet you a case of wine that within 5 years UK is going down the drain. so is the US... Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong and China will take over. And why will they take over? Because they have all the production and manufacturing(which built the west in 200years). And why do they have all the manufacturing? Because they have all the SAVINGS!

Btw, did you know, Hong Kong has never had a proper goverment ever, since UK didnt care for it at all. They gave Hong Kong to the 'people' and nothing else. Very mini goverment!.... now, see how rich they are. They save money and have very very high standards of living!! Much higher than Britain and much of todays west.

We desperatly need to kill our new socialism and implement old school capitalism, which our granfathers swore to, and which made the West a empire.

Good luck! (especially you up there in Scotland Mike .. SandyK will be quite safe in raw material producing Australia - "the lucky country" is lucky a little bit longer

Kristian

Btw: CO2 theory is not true either. Its a complete lie, and made up because goverments want to implement taxes to afford even bigger goverment. The world is getting colder by the minute and has done so the last 10 years.

[clausdk]

May 11, 2010 12:45:59 GMT @krisno said:

We have had GREED for 2000 years, so tell me - if GREED is problem - why did it go out of control now, but not in 18xx, 19xx or even 17xx?

If greed was good in the good old days, then explain to me the french revolution, the russian revolution, the Amerikan independence war, the 2, world war, the 1. world war, Vietnam war, The roman empire, Atilla the hun, the spanish inquisision..
Heck even Norway, did want their own money instead of sendning them to Denmark

And the list goes on and on and on, but maybe the wars of yesterday was about something else ??

Maybe finance is your strong side, history is surely not..

Otherwise I agree with you that the risk/fear has become less for all of us, just not for the few as it was in the good ol days, where it was the oligarks only, that had the means to make disasters..

Greed has never and will never be good

Everytime peolpe get robbed or stolen from in any way shape or form the motive is GREED, just about any war in history was motivated by greed.
That is the buttomline, maybe the greed for honor/glory have motivated some, but show me one looser in a war that did not loose money in the process..

The reason why we see it more today is the media and the narrowing of the world in general..

Oh and BTW Greed has been in the playing field much longer than 2000 years, closer to 400.000 years, where the first mutated monkey got the idea of standing up and took advantage over the weaker and/or dumber in the surroundings..

[krisno]

You are totally out of control. All the wars you mention is not about greed. Its about top kings and politicians controlling everything and sacrificing the people, just like they are today.

You are greedy, just as anyone else. Greed drives the whole society. Why do you think there is bread in the store? Because the baker wants to earn money for him and his family. Why do you even have clothes? Because somebody else is making them, to earn money.

But that greed is volontary. You can choose to buy bread or you can starve or walk around naked. Nobody forces you.. but the state taxes their citizens, and if citizen say no they pull a gun to your head and put you in jail. Now that is not just greed, its worse.

You have not understood anything. And its very painful to see, because you reflect the general populations view on things. The goverment blames capitalism and free markets. But they always blame someone else when it goes to hell, but they created the problem.

Ever heard of the black market? Have you ever heard of the black market collapsing? Black markets is what makes north korea run. Its what made Germany under Weimar republic working. Its whats makes zimbawbe run today. Black markets are peoples market, totally without regulations... and they have no boom or bust, and they never fail.

Markets work 100%. Goverment does not... and soon you will see what printing money really means when bread prices go up 10-20% a year.... UK Goverment will implement price restrictions, and what will that lead to? NO BREAD AT ALL FOR ANYONE!..... because the producer must charge those prices to be able to supply bread.

Did you know that 90% of the food supply in communist russia was made in peoples own back gardens ?.... the state even there, the king of planned economy, could not even deliver food or shoes to their people.

You are so out of control and people like you are bringing down the whole western world that our grandparents made for us.

Kristian

[Deleted]

bloomin' hell. The return of mini Merton.

[krisno]

haha - who is Merton ? I mean, i remember him.. was he very talkative? :-D

[Deleted]

May 11, 2010 16:04:38 GMT @krisno said:

haha - who is Merton ? I mean, i remember him.. was he very talkative? :-D

He haunts us with his terrible problems. About life, jobs, conspiracy theories, his paintings, his

Aaaaaaaaargh.

Ian

[krisno]

Well I am not telling any conspiracy theories my friend.... actually I am just repeating what all the economists and climate sceptics are saying - those that are not on goverment salaries and they far outnumber the goverment onces.

You really are in for trouble if you are less than 50 and think UK goverment will be able to pay you pension in your golden years. The UK is drunk on debt. You will get your pounds, of that I am sure. But the money wont buy anything.

And just one other fact. Since year 0 we have had about 30 "empires". Noone ever lasted. They all crashed on debt and over expansion. The last one is Western / US empire, that is exactly what it is , and debt and overconsumption is bringing it down. But its centralbankers who is doing it with too insainly low interest rates because goverment officials never want a bust in their period.

Enjoy history... its a very much we can learn from it, and in my eyes they were alot more enlightened and clever 100years ago than we are today.

You should wonder - why is gold, which is in almost same amount in society today as 10 years ago. Why is it prices quadrupled?? because value of paper money is going down, and its going down fast. Why you ask? Because the western central banks keeps printing them.... and they wont stop until we are out of trees I am afraid.

You see, western society is addicted to debt, since we dont produce anything anymore. Were are our factories? In Asia! So we need the debt flowing..

I will attach this graf, so you can see what its all about. This is TOTAL US DEBT the last century, and look, when we had a spike like this, only smaller - we had the great depression which later gave us WW2..

Enjoy - and no, we have seen nothing yet, trust me:

[clausdk]

You are totally out of control. All the wars you mention is not about greed. Its about top kings and politicians controlling everything and sacrificing the people, just like they are today.


And they just happend to be filthy rich ?? Look at those kings warlords they are rich and wants more.
Hitler was not greedy ? then why on earth did they steal all that gold ??
If you can not gain anything why go to war, are you really so naive that you think Hitler hated the jews ?? he could not have cared less about the jews, but he did need somebody to point a finger at and to steal from, please note I am not saying that nobody hated the jews, but it was not the reason he waged war, he wanted money and "lebensraum" (land which is money also)

You are greedy, just as anyone else. Greed drives the whole society. Why do you think there is bread in the store? Because the baker wants to earn money for him and his family. Why do you even have clothes? Because somebody else is making them, to earn money.

I have never claimed I was not greedy, but the only reason to why I am buying bread and clothes is lazyness and comfort and a bit of hunger and I do try not to be greedy, but if it is greed to have hunger, well can not argue with that

But that greed is volontary. You can choose to buy bread or you can starve or walk around naked. Nobody forces you.. but the state taxes their citizens, and if citizen say no they pull a gun to your head and put you in jail. Now that is not just greed, its worse.

True

You have not understood anything. And its very painful to see, because you reflect the general populations view on things. The goverment blames capitalism and free markets. But they always blame someone else when it goes to hell, but they created the problem.

I have never blamed anybody for anything, have you even read my post ??
You on the other hand is blaming a lot of people

Ever heard of the black market? Have you ever heard of the black market collapsing? Black markets is what makes north korea run. Its what made Germany under Weimar republic working. Its whats makes zimbawbe run today. Black markets are peoples market, totally without regulations... and they have no boom or bust, and they never fail.

Yes and North Korea and Zimbabwe is really countries to admire ?? And if the Weimar did work why did they throw them selves into war 10 years later ??

Markets work 100%. Goverment does not... and soon you will see what printing money really means when bread prices go up 10-20% a year.... UK Goverment will implement price restrictions, and what will that lead to? NO BREAD AT ALL FOR ANYONE!..... because the producer must charge those prices to be able to supply bread.

Well the breadprices in our country has gone up more than 30 %, we still get bread

Did you know that 90% of the food supply in communist russia was made in peoples own back gardens ?.... the state even there, the king of planned economy, could not even deliver food or shoes to their people.

Yes I knew that but why was it like that ?? because greedy politicians wanted to keep it all to themselves and were greedy to get aknowledgement

You are so out of control and people like you are bringing down the whole western world that our grandparents made for us.


I just do not get that, it is not my fault that your knowledge about the world does not extend more than a couple of 100 years, I was only making a point, that greed is nothing new and has never been new..
I do not use more than I earn, never did, I am 40 years old and have no debt (other than my house) can you say the same ??

Claus


Kristian

Last you blame the goverments for not punishing hard enough on greed, why can't the finacial-area behave nicely ??

It is not our goverments that are wrong it is those NOOBs in the stockexchanges that are ruining the world for a pennys gain..

If bankers and economics were behaving like today in the good ol days, somebody would have shot them down, plain and simple, so those jerks gets protection from the goverments..

And please lets behave politely, I do not want to get into a pissing contest, I only pointed out that greed was older than 2000 years and has gone amok lots of times, but as the world get smaller, it affects more people..

[clausdk]

Ohhh and the great depression started out in Germany, because their neighbours wanted more money than the Germans had, which started the downward spiral (after world war 1)..

[Deleted]

Persistent snapping Jack Russel like creature.

A perfect description of a foreigner telling Brits about their politics.

OK, where are you? Let's start on you lot.

I'll think of something you, you foreigner!!

(not you Claus, you're not foreign. I accept you as a token Brit.)

Ian

[krisno]

Great depression started after new york stock exchange buble in 1929.. and why did we have a bubble? because the US FED inflated money supply in 1927 (greenspan wrote this in 1966).. and that started the depression. But why was it depression and not just a normal downturn?? Because president Hoover and Roosevelt invented 'socialism' and plan economy. That was the NEW DEAL, and that made the recession of 1930-31 to turn into depression....

So I actually blame central bank for Hitler also. Hitler got to power because germany went down the drain because of the big collapse in worl economics, people got poor and wanted a strong leader. Hitler was strong - and then he want to war.

Why do we have wars? Not because we need them, but because POLITICIANS(not the poeple) or KINGS want to have a fight.

Did you know that WW1 , the kings in europe were all in family. They were cosins. It was supposed to be a small war. the WW1. But president Woodrow Wilson wanted to join. First he financed both germany and UK and France in WW1, and then in 1918 or something he joined it himself. Turning the small toy war into a total monster.

Politicians are taking us down my friend, like they have in 2000 years, but people dont see it. Its crazy.... it really is.

K

[PinkFloyd]

May 11, 2010 19:31:28 GMT @iancraig10 said:

Persistent snapping Jack Russel like creature.

hehe...... I gave Kristian that "custom title" not long after he joined the forum (for reasons which I trust are obvious )

[clausdk]

Great depression started after new york stock exchange buble in 1929.. and why did we have a bubble? because the US FED inflated money supply in 1927 (greenspan wrote this in 1966).. and that started the depression. But why was it depression and not just a normal downturn?? Because president Hoover and Roosevelt invented 'socialism' and plan economy. That was the NEW DEAL, and that made the recession of 1930-31 to turn into depression....

You are partly right, but it is the other way around, it was the poverty of the germans, that like it or not always have been the backbone of the European economi and when the Germans stopped porducing goods everything fell apart..

So I actually blame central bank for Hitler also. Hitler got to power because germany went down the drain because of the big collapse in worl economics, people got poor and wanted a strong leader. Hitler was strong - and then he want to war.

I blame Hitler for the central banks You do know that Hitler was very close to make a coop in 1923 (I think), so he was on the playing field before the burst of the bubble

Why do we have wars? Not because we need them, but because POLITICIANS(not the poeple) or KINGS want to have a fight.

And why do they want war ??
TO GET MORE MONEY

Did you know that WW1 , the kings in europe were all in family. They were cosins. It was supposed to be a small war. the WW1. But president Woodrow Wilson wanted to join. First he financed both germany and UK and France in WW1, and then in 1918 or something he joined it himself. Turning the small toy war into a total monster.


The French and Germans did not have a royal family, neither did Spain, Russia had killed theirs some years earlier.. the war was a monster long before the Amricans joined

Politicians are taking us down my friend, like they have in 2000 years, but people dont see it. Its crazy.... it really is.


I agree on that, but your knowledge clearly comes from other sources than mine, I will not say that you are right or that I am right, it is more a question of viewpoints, heck maybe we are both right and should be ruling the world ;D ;D

K

Claus

[Deleted]

May 11, 2010 20:19:30 GMT PinkFloyd said:

May 11, 2010 19:31:28 GMT @iancraig10 said:

Persistent snapping Jack Russel like creature.

hehe...... I gave Kristian that "custom title" not long after he joined the forum (for reasons which I trust are obvious )

Is he Swiss? I'll find something!!

He's like a snappy little yappy thing, barking up the wrong tree. Maybe he feels a bit Ruff and wants to have a go at the tolerant Brits? I'm dog tired of it now, reading all this doggy pooh. Yap yap yap. Let's paws for thought. There must be a claws in RG saying keep on topic? Surely?

Down boy.
Beg.
Your country will be begging for money from our country one day!!

The MF is BRITISH. You don't deserve one you foreign yappy dog. Stick with your foreign rubbish. (If it actually works)

Now Caneron's the Prime Minister, you'd better watch out over there. he has a big








missile you know.

Ian

[clausdk]

May 11, 2010 19:31:28 GMT @iancraig10 said:

(not you Claus, you're not foreign. I accept you as a token Brit.)

Ian

Now see that is scary, way more scary than the world economi

1000 years ago I would have jumped in my ship and plundered the whole island for a remark like that

Maybe I should just say thanks ??

[PinkFloyd]

Back on topic....... I have fitted a pair of 6H23N into the V8P and they, quite simply, blow the stock ECC88 valves into the dust... no doubt about it, the sound is no longer "thin", it is a lot more full bodied, more bass, better detail in the midrange.... no competition really.

I don't quite understand why Musical Fidelity chose to use ECC88 in their "flagship" headphone amp, and "no name" types into the bargain.

Their V1, V2 and V3 all came with good quality JAN / Philips 6922 fitted.... ECC88 is equivalent to 6DJ8 and 6922 is equivalent to E88CC (6922 / E88CC are "military standard" valves).

I can only assume the bean counters at MF found the ECC88 (6DJ8) more cost effective than the E88CC (6922)..... whatever the reason, the 6922 (E88CC / 6H23N) are much better sounding in the V8P.

Maybe, with their new "fine tuning" service in operation they decided to fit less than perfect components and save the good stuff for customers willing to fork out an extra £189 ? IMO this in an absolute joke, they heralded the V8P as the best thing since sliced bread (and the rest of their line up) and a couple of months later they offer this "fine tuning" service..... why not just fit the good stuff from day one?

I have seen one of these "fine tuned" V8 amps and basically it comprises of "Jamicon" 105C rated capacitors and a pair of JAN / Philips 6922..... that's the only difference I could see!

Their fine tuning for the V8 is listed as such:

X-CANV8 upgrade schedule
Replace PSU caps with low ESR high temp type
Precision re-bias
Replace regulators with selected premium types
Replace ceramic bypass caps with polycarbonate/polyester type
Bypass PSU electrolytics with polycarbonate/polyester type
Replace bypass caps from ceramic to polycarbonate/polyester
Replace all audio path electrolytics with low ESR, high temp. type
Realign volume control
Replace 2x ECC88 tubes with precision matched pairs
Heater current, audio characteristics and transconductance matched
Replace 4x high output power transistors with precision matched pairs
Upgrade op amps to professional spec type
Pure copper noise nulling screen fitted to PSU caps
Log owner name, model and serial number in Musical Fidelity archives
Issue certificate signed by Antony Michaelson
Soak test for 48 hours

Cost; £189 inc VAT.


A couple of points if I may.......

"Upgrade op amps to professional spec type"

erm what opamps? the V8 / V8P does not have any opamps

"Replace 4x high output power transistors with precision matched pairs"

So.... the stock transistor values are all over the place?

"Replace 2x ECC88 tubes with precision matched pairs"

ie: fit a couple of JAN / Philips 6922 like they used to do in all their headphone amps before the advent of the "fine tuning" program

"Heater current, audio characteristics and transconductance matched"
ie: they will fit a pair of 6922 which work in the circuit.

" Replace all audio path electrolytics with low ESR, high temp. type"

Jamicon, general purpose 105C rated caps.

I could pick the bones out of that all night, let's just say it's very misleading and factually incorrect..... I'm STILL looking for those "opamps" in my V8

[Deleted]

I have fitted a pair of 6H23N into the V8P and they, quite simply, blow the stock ECC88 valves into the dust... no doubt about it, the sound is no longer "thin", it is a lot more full bodied, more bass, better detail in the midrange.... no competition really.

I noticed the change as soon as I put the Russian tubes in Mike. However, the top remains but in your case, with the recapping, I suspect you've got it sound slightly more mellow too.

There's no doubt that it's a better amp with the original tubes out, even without extensive modding.

Ian