Replaced tubes in V8

[Deleted]

May 6, 2010 15:01:49 GMT apmusson said:

Thanks for the prompt.....

However given the right recording the V2 can create a musical impression so vivid that if you close your eyes you could be actually in the recording studio. The V3 has never done this and as a result I now regularly use the V2 as my headamp of choice.

Ade

May 5, 2010 16:31:05 GMT @krisno said:

ampmusson ... i am waiting your V2 vs V3 modded review?? where is it.

Though I am guessing with the same tubes they will sound about the same...

Anyone tried swapping the resistors on the V1, V2 or V3? The V1 has the least amount of resistors, so maybe it will be the easiest one to do it. I read that one guy did it in 2004 and said all the harshness left..

Ade,

I also use the V2 as my primary amp now alongside a V1 and V8. The 6h23n valves that Mike has are extremely good and beef the sound up a little more. I wasn't too happy with the V8 in comparison to the V1 and a simple valve switch to Russian 6h valves lit it up

The K701's are a bit as you describe - finicky with recordings and they seem to show up every fault on the recording. I switch between HD600 and 650 as well as the K701, but I do actually find the V2 a really good match for the K701. The harshness may well be more to do with recordings/source.

I can't use a Cyrus CD player with K701's without 'harshness' appearing. Or perhaps an interconect tweak?

I haven't been able to stop listening to the V2 since I got it. The sound is very addictive and is a nice match with both senns for a warmer sound and the K701 for a more analytical sound.

Ian

[krisno]

I really never get happy with the K701. Its too sterile almost always I feel. But might not be happy with HD 600 either..

Sennheiser should soon release a HD 700 (downscaled 800), then it might be good...

Btw... how does your V1 compare to all of this? you like V2 better than V1?

[apmusson]

Ian,

I might change the opamps in the beresford dac. I think that I noticed an occasional harshness from the DAC when using the LME49720HA opamps that didn't exist with the THS4032 opamps.

Maybe swapping that will remove the fussiness of my setup?

I too love the K701s. When I try other headphones (HD650s especially) I immediately notice the whole top end of the sound is muffled. The V2 seems to drive the bass of the 701s well too.

Ade

May 6, 2010 16:41:38 GMT @iancraig10 said:

May 6, 2010 15:01:49 GMT apmusson said:

Thanks for the prompt.....

However given the right recording the V2 can create a musical impression so vivid that if you close your eyes you could be actually in the recording studio. The V3 has never done this and as a result I now regularly use the V2 as my headamp of choice.

Ade

Ade,

I also use the V2 as my primary amp now alongside a V1 and V8. The 6h23n valves that Mike has are extremely good and beef the sound up a little more. I wasn't too happy with the V8 in comparison to the V1 and a simple valve switch to Russian 6h valves lit it up

The K701's are a bit as you describe - finicky with recordings and they seem to show up every fault on the recording. I switch between HD600 and 650 as well as the K701, but I do actually find the V2 a really good match for the K701. The harshness may well be more to do with recordings/source.

I can't use a Cyrus CD player with K701's without 'harshness' appearing. Or perhaps an interconect tweak?

I haven't been able to stop listening to the V2 since I got it. The sound is very addictive and is a nice match with both senns for a warmer sound and the K701 for a more analytical sound.

Ian

[Deleted]

May 7, 2010 14:59:40 GMT @krisno said:

I really never get happy with the K701. Its too sterile almost always I feel. But might not be happy with HD 600 either..

Sennheiser should soon release a HD 700 (downscaled 800), then it might be good...

Btw... how does your V1 compare to all of this? you like V2 better than V1?

I've had the V1 only a short while so it's a bit to soon to make proper judgements.

My immediate feelings are it is very close to the V2. Perhaps V2 is a bit 'wider' in headsound but the V1 has a warm, mellow and really focussed sound that is truly addictive.

I'm now using the V1 as a main amp so I gues at the moment, my preference is for the V1. It drives all of my headphones (including the K701) really well and seems to give a lovely balance of tone, whatever you connect to it.

I love it with the HD600. It's really good with the K701. (Best match so far) and it's equally good with the HD650 and Beyer DT770. It seems to have a naturalness that brings out the best of each headphone without accentuating their weaknesses.

ie; the supposed lack of bass in the K701 is addressed well by the V1. The HD650 so called 'bloat' is nowhere near what I get from other amps.

It's a very musical power source and I think will be my primary one.

Ian

[apmusson]

Ian

Is the V1 a pinkfloyd jobbie? What mods has it got? PSU?

Cost? Uh oh... must stop buying MF Xcans.

Ade

May 7, 2010 15:22:04 GMT @iancraig10 said:

May 7, 2010 14:59:40 GMT @krisno said:

I really never get happy with the K701. Its too sterile almost always I feel. But might not be happy with HD 600 either..

Sennheiser should soon release a HD 700 (downscaled 800), then it might be good...

Btw... how does your V1 compare to all of this? you like V2 better than V1?

I've had the V1 only a short while so it's a bit to soon to make proper judgements.

My immediate feelings are it is very close to the V2. Perhaps V2 is a bit 'wider' in headsound but the V1 has a warm, mellow and really focussed sound that is truly addictive.

I'm now using the V1 as a main amp so I gues at the moment, my preference is for the V1. It drives all of my headphones (including the K701) really well and seems to give a lovely balance of tone, whatever you connect to it.

I love it with the HD600. It's really good with the K701. (Best match so far) and it's equally good with the HD650 and Beyer DT770. It seems to have a naturalness that brings out the best of each headphone without accentuating their weaknesses.

ie; the supposed lack of bass in the K701 is addressed well by the V1. The HD650 so called 'bloat' is nowhere near what I get from other amps.

It's a very musical power source and I think will be my primary one.

Ian

[Deleted]

The V1 is fully modded by Mike himself. It has a Little Pinkie attached so I've got to buy another one because I have a V2 as well.

If I had known as much a few years back, I would have saved a lot of money. I have an Earmax and I prefer the V1.

It is a stunning amp. Musical, full with loads of drive. It is an amp with lots of character and makes others seem bland.

My two best amps are the V1 and V2. Both modded by Mike. I'm not as fussed about the V8 but that is really since I first got the V2. When I first got the V8, I loved its neutrality and felt that it was a better match for the Sennheiser HD650. It basically stopped the HD650 being as 'bassy' as it can sound and cuts through the so called 'veil'. However, a change of valves helped the V8 a lot and I have a more weighty sound which suits a lot more headphones.

As far as value goes. It depends on how important music is to you. I prefer the V1 to amps I've had at £400 so if you get one at £200, imo it's a good buy. If you get one at £120 - a fantastic buy, although I suspect you'd soon want to spend money on modding it. Curiosity would get to you!!

After having the V2 for a little while (Which is also stunning), I was absolutely delighted to be able to get a V1 from Mike. I didn't think he'd want to part with it and was absolutely prepared for him to change his mind. I wouldn't have blamed him at all. When it arrived, I was hopping all over the place. In fact, I was so pleased about the prospect of a V1 that my wife telephoned me with the message - 'Parcel from Mike!!!!'. I went home straight away.

These two are real keepers and will never leave my hands. Honest.

Ian

[krisno]

But iancraig..

main difference of V1 or V2? Is it suble or big? I can see that the V1 is better as a good opamp is better than many discrete solutions, though not sure about opa 2134.

If I remember opa 2134 correctly, it will have narrow soundstage, but great bass, and be 100% non-fatiguing. Everything sounds just smooth. Also it will be quite alive, but a bit rolled of on the top end?

Is that how it sounds in V1 also?

I can see that V1 + AKG K 701 in that case will sound just perfect... regarding V2 and AKG K 701 I still am not so sure. hehe (I have that comby my self... some tracks sound amazing, others sound metallic, boring and flat).

Acutally, the more I think of it. The smaller soundstage of the opa2134, including its inherit dark sound and rolled of top..

THE V1 with MOD + OPA 2134 must be PERFECT with AKG K 701... it must really be 'the one' i think.

k

[krisno]

but is it the opamp itself that does the amping or is there a transistor at the end? how can the opamp be powerful enough? soundcards with opamps on the output does not drive the AKG K 701 well.

Why not try other opamps??

[Deleted]

I have 2134's (I think) in it but Mike also sent me a pair of OPA2107.

However, I really like the sound as it is and don't feel the need to play around with it to be honest.

V1 and 2 are very close. Maybe V2 has a wider soundstage. Similar sound sig.

Ian

[apmusson]

Thanks for the info.

I love my music. I listen for a couple of hours every day.

I will keep my eyes open for a mint x-cans I thinks.

I was very lucky to find the v2 pre-modded and including the little pinkie. It may be one of the best music related buys that I've ever made...

Ade

These two are real keepers and will never leave my hands. Honest.

[krisno]

well if v1 and v2 are that similar, no point.. as the opa2134 really has narrow soundstage. most narrow soundstage of any opamp i think

[krisno]

but I am very sure.... V1 + AKG seems like the sweetspot. on 'paper' atleast.

[PinkFloyd]

May 7, 2010 22:52:25 GMT @krisno said:

well if v1 and v2 are that similar, no point.. as the opa2134 really has narrow soundstage. most narrow soundstage of any opamp i think

[Deleted]

May 7, 2010 22:52:25 GMT @krisno said:

well if v1 and v2 are that similar, no point.. as the opa2134 really has narrow soundstage. most narrow soundstage of any opamp i think

Krisno
Rubbish. Are you able to read data sheets for the opamps ?
It's all about the way the power supply bypassing etc. is implemented.
That also includes the output side of the voltage regulators, PCB track length and inductance etc.
Not all opamps perform to their best with the same bypass capacitor types and values and their location.
Some people claim that the LM4562HA is too bright sounding. It isn't, It is all in the way that the preceding is implemented. Some opamps are more forgiving of PSU etc. limitations than others.
The vast majority of Mike's mods appear to be in improving the deficiencies in the PSU area.That also includes reducing diode switching noise etc.
and in many cases increasing the amount of capacitance in that area, as well as using lower ESR and higher temperature types where necessary.

SandyK

P.S.
I use the single version of the OPA2134 (OPA134) in conjunction with the LME49710 HA ( single version of LME49720/LM4562) in the Silicon Chip DAC , and it has a fabulous natural soundstage through both a Class A headphone amplifier and Class A 15W/Ch. amplifier into loudspeakers.

[krisno]

I meant on 'paper' regarding the inherent sound quality of the opamp i experiencd.... the 2134 is dark, laid back, narrow soundstage, rolled off in the top and bassy..... maybe it differs in the implementation... but all those features would match the bright, extremly wide, lack of bass and sharp sound of the AKG K 701

of course i cant read specs of opamp. I am not an engineer..

[Deleted]

krisno
The OPA 2134 has Full Power Bandwidth of 1.3 MHz ,which is way,way, above the required audio bandwidth,and a response down to D.C.
It has a channel separation of typically 135dB.
Why would it have a rolled off top end, poor soundstage, and sound bassy if correctly implemented ? Different opamps are obviously going to suit different circuit implementations and layouts.
You are generalising based on hearing it in a couple of pieces of equipment that it obviously is not optimised for.
It also gives excellent results in many soundcards.

SandyK
P.S.
Did you read the recent comments by Ian ? (reply 9)

[Deleted]

I'm not aware of any roll off on the V1.

It has a 'warm' revealing sound with plenty of power. It seems to match a wide range of headphones well and is less touchy about what you attach to it imo.

The headphones' characters come through fine, but they all feel more 'balanced' sounding to me.

My biggest surprise was going to another tube amp using Sennheiser HD650's. They are always described as 'dark', veiled etc., so i thought that a valve amp would make this worse. It didn't. In fact, it seemed to enhance the HD650's strengths and made a really pleasant listen.

The V1 retains a 'valve' type sound with a beautiful clarity that can easily be listened to at low volumes without feeling you're missing some of the frequency response and as you turn up, the music just seems to grow and scale up more. It doesn't go harsh and 'electronic' sounding.

I have no idea where this 'roll off' with the op amp is coming from because I'm not aware of one.

It's a quality amp in terms of sound once Mike has got in there. That's about it really. Just put it up directly against the types of amps that many 'say' are good and it's obvious.

Sitting alongside an Earmax, which is where all the hi fi shops will steer you (at a terrible price too), it shites all over it. It's obvious. The V1 is a quality sound and all these doubts about it must be coming from people who haven't heard/compared it.

If the op amp is supposed to sound rolled off, well I don't get it.

The V1 is extended with a warmth, which is different from saying it has an overstated treble response. I sometimes think that treble extension is mistaken for too much treble!!!

When I hear cymbal splashes, I don't want to just hear a splash (which is what too much treble response does) I want to hear the sound of the stick hitting the cymbal (click) the sound of the splash (treble) and then the 'aftersound' which is more like a gong sound. Cymbals actually have pitch but it is often missed because of a nasty treble response that many think is hi fi.

The V1 (and V2) produces this sound beautifully along with the aftersound (delay) so imo there is no particular issue with roll off. It scales up beautifully because of its smooth treble response and doesn't go into nasty, glaring treble drilling sounds!!!

This is an amp that sells between £100 - £200. We're talking about a price that many pay for a portable, or much less if you want to get one of those lovely American portables.

At this price level, this amp is a stunning buy and many people get carried away by whether it does this or that, when we're talking about a £200 amp!!! It's an absolute bargain and is unbelieveably amazing once Mike has recapped and modded the guts.

There is no roll off. No roll off. Roll off = none. None!!! I can hear good, clear treble.

I like those!!!! ;D

This parrot is dead, defunct. It is no more. It's an ex-parrot.

There is no roll off..........
............
........
....
.

However, if you're one of the 'audio police' and what to stick some prongs up its arse to measure its response to prove it, fine. I'm talking about music and the way that it is perceived through headphones.

However, if the prongs say no after a good poking, at least you're happy. Get the perfect amp at £200. Try the dreaded prongs again and you'll STILL find something wrong because the prongs say so.

Also, you gotta ask yourself ....... (do you feel lucky?) ...........

Are you SURE you want a flat response? What is a flat response for your head? For some people, a flat reponse for their head is one that shows on a meter. That is not always desireable and can sound bland/flat/boring. (It often is) Our ears manipulate the sound (along with our bony heads so a flat response on a metre may well NOT correspond that well to a flat reponse on your head!!

Feel the Force Luke Skywalker. Put your prongs down and listen to music. It's better for your health and you'll sleep better after you've spent a mere £200!!

Hope this answers the roll off question!

Ian (Treble response boy) There is no perceived rolloff. None. Nada. Rien. Estoy muy cansado ahora!! (Phew)

PS: If you want a more extended perceived treble response, then the V8 is your man. (That's what this thread is about)

[krisno]

But how does the V1 work?

Is it really a true Hybrid? with the opamp doing the top and bottom end and tubes doing the middle? Mike said something like that.. it sounds a bit strange.

Isnt it just tubes on the pre, and opamp on power?

Kristian

P.S. yes you are probably right. The Lehmann is preceived as one of the greater amps out there and it is using opa 2134. But I know one thing.... the opa 2134 has not the biggest soundstage.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2010 16:38:16 GMT @krisno said:

But how does the V1 work?

Is it really a true Hybrid? with the opamp doing the top and bottom end and tubes doing the middle? Mike said something like that.. it sounds a bit strange.

Isnt it just tubes on the pre, and opamp on power?

Kristian

P.S. yes you are probably right. The Lehmann is preceived as one of the greater amps out there and it is using opa 2134. But I know one thing.... the opa 2134 has not the biggest soundstage.

It works on natural gas.

Yes it's a true hybrid. Does it matter? It amplifies!! You can tweak the sound by changinging op amps or tubes or both.

If you take the tubes out, it still works but you get no bass.

Aaaargh............










Boing.


Ian

[krisno]

Ian.

Some people are more technically interested you now. Some listen to music, some open them up. Do you think Mike would have modded all this stuff, or Sandyk, if his only aim was to listen to music? Of course not... its about going in depth and tweaking around.

k

[krisno]

"Further than answer your questions, perhaps you need to hear one before worrying about a roll off or what the design is?"

haha... I liked that comment..

What Mike is saying cannot be correct - if anything, you would want the opamp to do the bass and the tubes to do middle freq.

But who cares, you are absolutly right. Just get one and listen to it. I am just saying I am interested in how the V1 works.

Kris

[Deleted]

Sorry Kris,

I deleted my post since I didn't want to offend you.

get a V1. It's good!!

Ian

[krisno]

hehe... I am not easily offended, but yes I could sense some harsh feelings ;-)

I am not completly sure about the V1 as I allready have Mikes turbo modded V2. and I still have not been told what the big difference really is.

The V1 is more musical you say, but the rest is alike?

[PinkFloyd]

I am just saying I am interested in how the V1 works.

Contact Musical Fidelity. They will probably tell you to fck' off (very poiltely / with an Indian accent) or steer you toward their "latest and greatest" V16 (sixteen times better than V1, 8 times better than V2, 2 x better than V8 and 5.33 X Better than a V3..... the V925.6 is the one I am tenting for but would be happy to see a V747 in the interim period.

How does the V1 work?.... you plug it into the mains.......

OK, joking aside, It is a multi hybrid dual function plasma inflected solid tube design. It is energised in the pre stage by wind (from multicoloured eco friendly windmills) and powered in the "musical" section by a series of solar panels which power the fancy "green" transistor thingies.....

The musical signal goes through a network of transmorphogencic transmitters followed by a standard series of 149BC entomorphic cunnilingus "musical node tramsmitters"..... it is then space morphed by a series of large intergalactic "node" mushrooms which convert the whole entity into "music".....

Quite simple really

[PinkFloyd]

May 8, 2010 23:04:33 GMT @krisno said:

... it will be a different tune to you guys when the sterling collapse and the UK with it ... then maybe I can get a proper answer.

Just to talk a little about economics. You must stop your goverment. It is sending the british people to the road to hell. you are not far from being Greece, and with the money printing that your centralbank has been doing latly, it has just killed your savings. Your sterling is down 20% just in 1 year, and it will be alot more in the years to come. It kills your purchasing power and savings.

If we didnt have these stupid goverments all the time in human history, we would have had Star Trek technology by now. The govermens is looking after us like a shepard looks after his sheeps. The goverment needs the people to survive, as it takes from the people - taxes..... but the people dont need the criminal state that takes the peoples money and go to war or bail out their banking friends.

Its a complete disaster... your prime minister Gordon Brown and King, the "ceo" of the central bank has effectivly killed Britain for generations to come.

Well anyways - remember that when inflation really starts to kick in and your goverment goes bust in 2-5 years.

Thrust me on this - there will be NO GOVERMENT RETIREMENT for any under 50years old.

Kristian

I agree.