Replaced tubes in V8

[Deleted]

I suspect it'll sound very good Kristian. Mike has a good pair of ears and I truly trust his judgement.

The job that he originally did with my V2 was terrific and the second time he offered to do some further adjustments was like someone had taken the lid off a can. It was absolutely jaw dropping and it's basically because of Mike's work that I have become a bit of an MF fanboy I suppose. For me, the V2 is top of the pile.

There are some people on these sites who really DO know their stuff.

For me, the Aune SS amp gives the K701 a nice tone. It's not as focussed perhaps as better amps but it works. I also have a Presonus HP4 which is a very cheap thing which works well with the K701. I find it a little worrying using little cheap amps with them but they don't give as much top edge as more costly amps and that suits the K701's well.

Takes me back to trying the new Solo and Novo with them!!

Ian

[krisno]

dont bothet with the solo or novo... bury it.

Get matrix m-stage or tube amp... thats all you need.

[mrarroyo]

I have a Solo SRGII and I like it a lot, have not listened to the two units you mention so I can not comment on them.

[krisno]

MIKE! we need to get to bottom of this.

1: Why dont take all stops out. Have you tried the X-can V1 with the expensive opamp some of you guys used in the australian headamp kit. I dont remember the name of the opamp anymore. it was a 30 dollar silver can kind of. How does that sound in the v1?

2: There are a lot fewer resistors in the V1 than v2 . How much work would it be to swap out all the resistors and replace with matched Vishay etc? Do we know all the resistor ohms ??

3: How does the V1 sound better than v2? is it more musical? is it even more alive? attack? aggressive? smoother(i guess)`?

[PinkFloyd]

Ian, you're getting worse than me mate...... how many amps do you "need" ffs?!!

I'm starting to get a bit bogged down with all of them and there comes a time when owning 64 amps is simply not a good idea!

I have recently been dabbling with loudspeakers again, bought a nice pair of Tannoy Eyris 1 bookshelf speakers and a REL sub..... it's put a nice big smile on my face It was only intended as a small bedroom system for late night viewing of rock concerts (via the NAD T585 DVD player) but I find myself being drawn to it more and more for general purpose music listening..... the amp is an el cheapo NAD C326 BEE and I am going to try the MF V8P as a preamp with it... watching a live rock concert with this modest rig you could almost BE THERE... the bass literally makes the curtains move

Soooooo, anyways, I have been asking myself the question "WHY" do I have all these headphone amps? I don't live in a block of flats, my nearest neighbour is 1/4 mile away so nothing stopping me from blasting the fekk out of a pair of 12" woofers.....

It's a big step for me going back to loudspeakers..... in my last house I had a dedicated "music room" with some very expensive equipment in it (I even spent a load conditioning the "room" itself) I wasn't on "the net" back then so every penny I earnt was spent on that damned system.... as soon as I got connected to the WWW I found that I barely went into the listening room for a "session" and decided to convert it into a fourth bedroom and sold off my cherished system (audiolab monoblocks / pre's / Wilmslow audio ATC monitors (self built), Nakamichi dragon, Marantz CD10 (trichord mods) and a selection of tube traps, exotic cables, power conditioners etc.......

I don't WANT to go down that route again as I was obsessive compulsive with every aspect of it (especially the speakers).... if it didn't sound "perfect" it had no place in my system... that is a VERY bad place to be..... you should never listen to the "parts" you should listen to the music.

It took me a while to adapt to headphone listening and I never, to this day, found it as "real" as listening via speakers but I was able to sit at the computer AND listen at the same time so this seemed the way to go.

This "cheapy" bedroom system I have put together has made me think twice and I am now craving the "open air" sound again.... the throbbing bass, the imaging, the depth, the soundstage, the "realism"..... headphones just cannot recreate this, not in a million years, it will always be an "in yer head" presentation.

One thing that has REALLY surprised me with this dabble into the "budget" loudspeaker arena is just how things have improved over the years.... the £250 NAD C326 BEE amp is a MONSTER compared to £250 amps back in the day.... 20 years ago this type of performance would have cost you a grand (easily).... The NAD T585 @ £199 is another miracle..... DVD, CD, SACD, MP3 etc. etc... The Tannoy Eyris 1 @ £350 and the REL Storm for a crazy £299....... just over a grand for one kick ass system....... hell, I used to pay that for a monoblock!

The difference between me, back in the day, and me "now" is that I accept there are "limitations" in equipment (of any price) and I can actually enjoy music listening to a portable radio..... the "price" of the equipment or the marketing BS doesn't bother me these days..... it's good to be able to enjoy the music again without thinking "that 250hZ cabinet resonanse is annoying me" or "Hell, I better get some tube traps to break up those standing waves" or "If I paint the inside of the enclosure with bitumen it will aid the damping" blah blah blah.......

Total crap..... just turn the volume UP and get down with the music... and, actually, you will find (if you do that) that the music sounds like it should.... no live event is "Hi-Fi" guitar strings resonate, bass bins vibrate like fekk, there is serious distortion, you are deaf for three days after the event....... "Hi-Fi" is all about making the presentation as "PERFECT" as possible.... that's not what music is about.

Kris....... if those "Russians" sound a bit "harsh" in the mids are you sure you're listening to the music or the components?.......

Mike.

[krisno]

what the fekk. i did not say harsh in mids. i said hard in top registers. but might be russians and akg kombo.

you are of course right - there is some more listening to components than music. So just a little more. than i am done.

you had 64 headphone amps? i feel sorry for your wife

[krisno]

fekk man! explain the V1 / V2 difference

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2010 21:35:05 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Ian, you're getting worse than me mate...... how many amps do you "need" ffs?!!

I'm starting to get a bit bogged down with all of them and there comes a time when owning 64 amps is simply not a good idea!

.... just turn the volume UP and get down with the music... and, actually, you will find (if you do that) that the music sounds like it should.... no live event is "Hi-Fi" guitar strings resonate, bass bins vibrate like fekk, there is serious distortion, you are deaf for three days after the event....... "Hi-Fi" is all about making the presentation as "PERFECT" as possible.... that's not what music is about.

Kris....... if those "Russians" sound a bit "harsh" in the mids are you sure you're listening to the music or the components?.......

Mike.

I have a system in every room (Bathroom and toilet!!!) and one in a boat and one on a plane. Sick isn't it?

Actually, I always forget to mention the Sennheiser PX450's for noise cancelling. Crap really, but the kick the noise out.

You're right about the hi fi/music thing Mike for sure. Same for me. If the music gets through to me, then it works for me.

Or else, we'll all end up getting the same perfect system that sounds the same.

When I first started with hi fi in the 70's (or 60's?) I used a Nad with (I think) little Mission Speakers. I had a Thorens deck which I loved and I was forever changing stylus. The listening seat was in the perfect spot for 3D listen. (Not much interms of bass with the Missions!!) But I loved it.

Then on to the wonderful Scottish deck - Linn LP12 and Nagaoke cartridges and different tone arms. Then onto Naim amps as well as others and on it goes.

I loved it.

Then CD and that awful 'glass' sound that became so common which hit me like a brick. Hated it. Everyone was going on about it but it all honesty, it was a crappy, thin edgy 2D sound and a new breed of engineers specialising in digital technology reckoned they could record and re-master old stuff and make it sound better. That was a load of bollocks.

Just for Sandy .... CD is a different world now though! (I admit it)

Now, I have all the speaker stuff scattered at home but I have used portable/headphone stuff increasingly in order to get my head right into the recording (for analysis) ot just shield myself from others in the family who don't like hearing Dad or the weird music that 'he listens to!!' I can also remain sociable by sitting with the wife watching TV with a headphone on listening to music!!

Just convenience really. However Mike, I don't get this sound stage stuff either. Never have. Head stage , yes but I don't understand how people reckon they hear music outside their heads.

While I use headphones, I'd prefer better stuff though to the terrible stuff you see out there.

I tried the REL subs. Brilliant devices. It's very tempting to set them too high. When I first had one, I had this 'thumping' going on and on and after a while it became tiring so backing them off can be very beneficial so they only go when they're supposed to!! It also showed me how much the tone of your system as a whole can be altered by concentrating on just one band. (actually, this was mentioned to me by someone recently - limit the top frequency response and it makes the system seem 'mellow' without actually perceiving that the top end is curtailed) Twiddling with the Sub does the same.

The Nads are great amps Mike. Love their warmth. Powerful beasties too for their rating. They introduced a clipping protection thing in the 70's I think and also allowed you to bridge two amps together as mono amps - upping the power and so letting you build a BIG system. It worked well. I don't know whether they retained that bridging mode, but get another amp and try it if you can. It kicks ass big time and doubles the power up on each side.

I was recently auditioning some Proac speakers. Full sized monsters and they blew me away. I loved them, but very expensive. Imaging and tone seemed spot on. So close to the music that you could hear the musicians moving around while playing and also some of the faults in their gear. (Hums, clicks, swooshes etc) Loved them.

The sweet spot became an obsession for me with a chair in the perfect place. At least with headphones, the sweet spot is always where your brain is supposed to be.

Kris, give me some time and I'll tell you the difference between the V1 and V2 but the thing is, they are both heavily modded so I would hate to mislead people. The V2 changes were dramatic (and way, way for the better) so I don't really have a clue what an unmodded one sounds like. The V1 that I have on the way is the same. It isn't a standard V1. However, I can tell you the potential of them both if they are modded.

Mike could probably tell you too since he's so familiar with them allas well as how the originals compare perhaps.

The V1 is probably going to be put in the position of my V2 at the moment and the V2 will take over from my V8, leaving the V8 in a bedroom I think, until I can figure out what to do with it.

I was perfectly happy with the V8 sound until the V2 blew it out of the water and the second time it was modded, it was a no-brainer. That's not saying that the V2 is more accurate sounding. In all probability, the V8 is more accurate, but it no longer cuts it considering the other one.

I don't get the 'harshness' that you're getting Kris. My V2 is clear, warm and offers a FAT low end that only shows itself when needed. (Almost like a sub-woofer attached) It has the 6H23n in it I think. It also gives a really clear head stage. Stunning actually.

I never even considered MF amps when they came out and used anything that the magazines seemed to consider good at the time. Now, I wish I had bought a few V2's. (Maybe soon - V1's) I remember them coming out all that time ago.

There is no hint of harshness on the V2. I can play it ridiculously loud and it doesn't 'hurt' as some amps can when they go into screech mode. The V2 just doesn't screech. You have to watch the volume on it actually because it's so tempting to raise the volume with that lush sound and lack of distortion.

To me, the V2 is a bargain. If you bought one second hand and then paid for mods and a decent power supply, it's still a bargain. However, I'm not sure I'm listening to the same type of V2 that others are listening to.

Ian

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2010 18:30:43 GMT mrarroyo said:

I have a Solo SRGII and I like it a lot, have not listened to the two units you mention so I can not comment on them.

Hi Miguel,

I presume that you mean the Aune and the Presonus?

The Presonus is a middle of the road cheapy. Not particularly well extended but the output impedance almost corresponds with the K701 and since it's not that extended, it kind of 'tames' the sound and imo is a cheap option for amplifying the AKG, which as you know, can be a bit difficult to drive. It has four outputs and they advertise it as a studio amp I think. (But you would only see them in a low end studio imo) 18v power supply and plenty of clout as well for a cheapy. I think it costs less than the current portable I'm using - the Neco. (Which is very good)

Ian

[krisno]

What I can say about the V2.... it is bright, even with mods. .... But I will get back to you guys regarding HD 600 and siemens tubes.

I will make a big order on your russians mike(if possible) if the siemens fail to impress.

K

[krisno]

imageevent.com/sidandcoke/musicalfidelityxcanv1mods

[bjoern]

I'm positively surprised that my first started topic on this forum engaged so many people and so many subjects! What was the topic now?
Anyway, I can recognize myself in Mike's description of "the past". I have a dedicated music and cinema room, that was "mine" for a couple of years when I was more obsessed with the components than the music. It is now "downgraded" to be a usable room for family and friends. Movies, games and fun for everybody. The room is now more used than ever. Good!
My private sphere is now the headphones...

But, upgrade is always an option. A friend just built the coolest home cinema bass system I have ever felt. 12 x 10" and 4kW power. When bass has that kind of headroom there isn't much distortion to speek of. Listening to music in that room with that system, so effortless and just impressive! I guess my next DIY project will be in the cinema room... Nooooo! Not again!

[PinkFloyd]

Apr 24, 2010 23:10:22 GMT @krisno said:

fekk man! explain the V1 / V2 difference

Hi Kris,

I am not a robot who sits at the computer 24/7/365 explaining the differences between headphone amps...... My main computer was struck by lightning the other day and things are all over the place this end.

In a nutshell, the V1 is slightly more rounded than the V2 and even more "musical" in my opinion... the soundstage is more compact and the drive capabilities not as good as the V2 (with low Z 'phones) but with 75 - 300ohm it's perfectly adequate.

It was the original, the first, made in England X-Can and it's absolutely STUFFED with parts and a total of "29" capacitors.... a true hybrid design...... you can even listen to it without the valves installed! The valves, basically, deal with the low frequencies and the opamps the mids and highs.... remove the valves and all you will hear are the mids / highs.

The standard NE5532 opamps sound good but the OPA2134 even better, they open the mids up a bit more.... I am experimenting with Ian's V1 at the moment and will be sending him both 2134 and 2107 (and the stock NE5532 to try out) so he can decide for himself which sonic signature he prefers.

I helped sid and coke out with his V1 upgrades quite a few years ago, a nice guy he only lived 20 minutes away from me back then.... I decided to drop the "ventilation" mods as they did nothing more than make the amp look pug ugly! ..... it was around that time that I decided to go with high temperature (105C) / low impedance caps instead..... the benefit being they sounded a LOT better than the GP types and were better suited inside the warm environment of the V1.

Great amps, true classics but if you are buying secondhand be prepared to spend extra on getting them recapped.... most of the examples that are out there will have tired / dry caps and will sound FAR from optimum.

I have recapped many over the years and the feedback is usually along the lines of "what a MASSIVE improvement!"..... another thing about "upgrading" and old amp is you may not need to.... all that amp may need is a re cap to inject life back into it No such thing as a "new design" in the headphone amp world.... they are all reworkings of very old designs and you cannot reinvent the wheel.... you can, however, realign the wheel and fit new tyres to make the ride smoother again

Sooooo...... in my opinion, the most "musical" and enjoyable of the X-Can series is definitely the X-CANS (V1) followed by the V2, the V3 and the V8.... the V8 is, BY FAR, the most disappointing ( Anthony Michaelson admitted that people may not like the sound as it was "too accurate" but claimed this was how an amp "should" sound..... I disagree) It is way too "light" and errs on the the wrong side of Neutral.... it's as if it has a built in hoover which sucks all the energy and emotion out of the music.

The V3.... good drive, wide "head stage", a "grand" presentation with some recordings.

The V2.... Good drive (1 watt), intimate, revealing, musical.

The V1.... The original and most musically involving of the lot IMO.... designed and built in England (before MF became a "latest and greatest, last years design is crap" type outfit who don't design anything "in house" these days) I didn't even know what a "headphone amp" was until MF introduced the X-CANS (I'd never heard of a headphone amp)..... in the UK, the X-CANS (V1) was the first mainstream headphone amp I'd ever come across.

They put all they had into the design of the V1 and came up with a classic which was not only groundbreaking in "appearance" it was also groundbreaking in the sonic stakes "and" the value stakes..... the original V1 retailed at £129 (back in the day)......

I firmly believe that the X-CANS (V1) started the "headphone amp" revolution and, if it wasn't for the introduction of that famous cylindrical tube we wouldn't have the choice of headphone amp we have today..... I'll say it again.... a TRUE British designed / built icon (along the lines of concorde, the E-Type Jag, the Spitfire etc.)...... the V1 is where it all started (mainstream)...... and I will always have a soft spot for it

All sorts of amps have come and gone since the introduction of the X-CANS (V1) and I've listened to most of them.... the X-CANS V1 has withstood the test of time and is STILL one of the finest headphone amps there is on mother Earth.

I hope this has answered your question Kris.

Mike.

[Deleted]

A friend just built the coolest home cinema bass system I have ever felt. 12 x 10" and 4kW power. When bass has that kind of headroom there isn't much distortion to speek of. Listening to music in that room with that system, so effortless and just impressive!

bjoern

And what do the neighbors think about it ? That kind of LF power can carry for hundreds of metres without very special room decoupling methods. Even a 100W or so of non decoupled bass can annoy the hell out of neighbors with some music.

SandyK

[bjoern]

Apr 25, 2010 21:21:46 GMT @sandyk said:

A friend just built the coolest home cinema bass system I have ever felt. 12 x 10" and 4kW power. When bass has that kind of headroom there isn't much distortion to speek of. Listening to music in that room with that system, so effortless and just impressive!

bjoern

And what do the neighbors think about it ? That kind of LF power can carry for hundreds of metres without very special room decoupling methods. Even a 100W or so of non decoupled bass can annoy the hell out of neighbors with some music.

SandyK

Well, there are mostly cows and horses... He's living out in nowhere, but I pay a visit from time to time. He's making pretty good Lasagna, hehe. And that bass system of course

[krisno]

thanks man. you write almost like poesi. Like everyone should get the X-can just becaue it is the one.

But dont be afraid of asian manufacturing. They are high quality now. British quality was the best 50 years ago. Now its crap. But Britain might make some good hifi still.

In 10-15 years , if this continues - China will be making everything at highest quality. Just like Japan and South Korea.

[apmusson]

Hi,

Great thread guys.

I have an XCAN V3 (mullard e88cc & little pinkie) which Mike modded for me before Christmas. It sounds fantasitic and adds that tube depth to the sound of my highly modded Beresford Caiman DAC. One of my friends has described the difference between the DAC headphone output and the XCAN one as being like comparing the real world to a photograph....

I also had a GS Solo solid state amp with linear PSU for a few (less than 2) short months last year... but I sold that as it was too flat for my tastes.

I have just (yesterday) bought a secondhand XCAN V2 (russian valves) including pinkfloyd mods and a litttle pinkie which is winging its way to me as I speak.

Don't get me wrong, I love my XCAN V3 but have two main areas where I listen to music and want to replicate that MF / Pinkfloyd goodness in both locations..

I'll update when I've had a chance to listen and compare.

Ade

[krisno]

nice ! please compare those two.

[bjoern]

If I may return to the original topic for just a second...
The replacement valves arrived today, thanks!
I am playing them right now and they sound just fine.
There sure is more weight to the picture. I am not sure about depth, height or width, but I will let the new components settle for a while. But I think I got what I asked for.
Right now - A perfect circle, Thirteenth step

[bjoern]

I just read your praise for the earlier X-can versions.
I have a possibility to buy a V1 (X-CANS) played less than 10hrs for approx £120. I am curious to try it against the V8. What do you say, is it a good buy?

[Deleted]

If you're coming from USB, then there's no digital connection available via the V1.

I presume that the files you have are either high quality rips or even lossless?

I personally prefer the V2 over the V8. More weight and just sounds fuller. The V8 sounds quite a bit thinner by comparison.

Ian

[bjoern]

Apr 27, 2010 20:48:14 GMT @iancraig10 said:

If you're coming from USB, then there's no digital connection available via the V1.

I presume that the files you have are either high quality rips or even lossless?

I personally prefer the V2 over the V8. More weight and just sounds fuller. The V8 sounds quite a bit thinner by comparison.

Ian

Yes, they are lossless. I can use a squeezebox with the V1. I only use USB for the simplicity at the moment.

[krisno]

ampmusson ... i am waiting your V2 vs V3 modded review?? where is it.

Though I am guessing with the same tubes they will sound about the same...

Anyone tried swapping the resistors on the V1, V2 or V3? The V1 has the least amount of resistors, so maybe it will be the easiest one to do it. I read that one guy did it in 2004 and said all the harshness left..

[apmusson]

Thanks for the prompt.....

My XCAN V2 arrived early last week and I was pretty unhappy. There was an audible crackling in the left earcup of my AKG K701s- even when the volume was low and no source was connected. I am not experienced with electronics but decided to swap the supplied tubes with some tried and trusted Mullard e88CCs.... This fixed the fault and I am now a very happy XCAN V2 owner..

My source setup is Marantz CD53 SE Mkii, Beresford DAC (Linear PSU, LME4972HA opamps, Modded (Output Caps Repaced and new Murata regulators), Silver Litz Interconnects.

I use AKG K701 headphones (about 600 hours on them - sweet sounding).

Both the V3 and the V2 include pinkfloyd mods and both have little pinkie v3i PSUs. I have Mullard e88CCs in the V2 and Mullard CV2492s in the V3.

So.. Lets cut to the chase.

There is quite a difference in the sound between the two. The V3 is smooth sounding, with bags of detail, a concrete and wide soundstage and the richness of sound that comes with valve amps. It seems to present the music well in front of listener.

The V2 is not so smooth sounding. It occassionally sounds a little bit harsh with some recordings.... Also the finest detail is sometimes obscured. Its soundstage is still wide (maybe a little bit less so than the V3) but is presented much closer to the listener. However given the right recording the V2 can create a musical impression so vivid that if you close your eyes you could be actually in the recording studio. The V3 has never done this and as a result I now regularly use the V2 as my headamp of choice.

Ade

May 5, 2010 16:31:05 GMT @krisno said:

ampmusson ... i am waiting your V2 vs V3 modded review?? where is it.

Though I am guessing with the same tubes they will sound about the same...

Anyone tried swapping the resistors on the V1, V2 or V3? The V1 has the least amount of resistors, so maybe it will be the easiest one to do it. I read that one guy did it in 2004 and said all the harshness left..

[krisno]

Right---- i think that is a very correct view on the matter.

The V3 is smoother. but maybe like som other guys say, the V2 is more alive, but at a cost. some harshness and brightness.

I am gonna try the V2 with Senn hd 600 in not too long.