Good price on V-CAN / Free mod tips

[Deleted]

Yes, it's definitely a big improvement Mike. I've had it running beside the unmodded one which will be on its way to you soon. It's got a bigger sound with the feeling that someone has opened the window!! The price of these things is really low for the quality that you get back.

At the modded price, it's a bargain. The price of a Neco virtually and look at what you're getting from it.

That's one thing I've really found here at RG. You CAN get excellent sound for little cost. Putting these little amps up against more expensive stuff is a real surprise when you find the expensive stuff isn't really delivering much more (if anything) than some of the cheaper stuff around as long as you buy with hindsight!!

Mike, don't ring my mobile it'll cost a bloody fortune. Ring and hang up - free for me.

[PinkFloyd]

Jun 18, 2010 21:34:57 GMT @iancraig10 said:

Mike, don't ring my mobile it'll cost a bloomin' fortune. Ring and hang up - free for me.

Ian,

I get unlimited minutes free to mobiles (02 / iphone / Online 65 ) so no worries there (unless you're abroad?)

Agree with you re: budget amps V expensive amps.... there is very little difference.

Mike.

[Deleted]

I'm a Virgin man myself. ;D

V-Can on it's way now Mike.

You know, I compared with the Neco this morning and I find the V-Can better. Smoother treble response and deeper.

It must be a difficult job to decide what you do are real improvements because at first, you detect a difference but it's not always obvious what those differences actually are.

I didn't spot the deeper bass for instance at first. I noticed the more open soundstage straight away and it wasn't until I swapped back to the unmodded one that I then noticed the bass had slightly disappeared and then realised that the mod has also added some depth to the sound.

Going back to the new one again revealed a more detailed picture. So I don't know how you decide what to do with an amp to get these kinds of improvements, which are not always obvious at first and the become glaringly obvious later!!

There's no doubt that the V-Can is an absolute beauty of an amp and it also makes you wonder why MF don't do something like this in the first place.

It drives the Senn HD650 really well. It's a good match actually. I don't think you're that keen on the HD650 Mike, but there seems to be a good synergy going on. (Also with HD600) That's one of the things I have found with the HD650 in particular - get it onto a an amp that matches and it's terrific. Put onto something else and it's fat and bloated.

I find the X-Cans match really well with the HD600. V8 with the HD650. All to do with the bass delivery I think.

I've got some stunnig amps here thanks to RG. Would never part with them now. In fact, the Earmax has left the building!

[PinkFloyd]

So I don't know how you decide what to do with an amp to get these kinds of improvements, which are not always obvious at first and the become glaringly obvious later!!

Basically, a lot of listening to well known tracks Ian.... if the bass doesn't sound quite right then a few tweaks to bring it up to scratch.... if the soundstage is compressed / veiled then a few tweaks to open things out a bit.... it's not that difficult, you kind of get used to what will do what where.... It's not simply a matter of bunging in a handful of components though, it's about getting the best from the circuit.

I do ALL of it by ear, the only machine I use is a CD player! I have relied on my ears for many years and can spot any changes in the sound presentation, however subtle.... I think most of the manufacturers rely on test equipment and honestly don't think they tweak the sound by ear... off of the drawing board straight into production. I know that Graham Slee fine tunes by ear but he is a dying breed (unfortunately)......

It doesn't work "all" the time, sometimes you have to go back and start again, what you "think" will sound good doesn't always do the trick I am fortunate having many opamps and types of capacitor at my disposal so can mix and match till my heart's content (and ears)....

Some people aren't so fortunate and just go all out with "Black Gates" and then convince themselves that they need 6 months to burn in (cause they've read it on a forum somewhere) ..... erm, it couldn't possibly be sounding like crap because they have chosen the wrong caps fopr the job No, give them 6 months to "burn in".... by that time their ears will be used to the shite sound

I've got another opamp I will be auditioning in the V-CAN, the Burr Brown OPA1644 (http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/opa1644.html) If it's any good I'll send one over to you Ian (I will fit it onto a SOIC to DIP14 adaptor).... actually, I've got very little to do tomorrow so will have a play about with it......

OPA4227 and OPA404 are also very nice in the V-CAN.... if you fancy trying a bit of opamp rolling I can send you down 3 or 4 to try out?

Mike.

[Deleted]

You know, I compared with the Neco this morning and I find the V-Can better. Smoother treble response and deeper.

I have been saying this for weeks now Ian, my Mikes modded V-CAN+ Little Pinkie seriously kicks butts in all departments, and is my favorite Amp at the moment.

And i much prefer Neco`s portable to his Mosfet V2 also, having given the portable a good listen over the last couple of weeks, update when i get back, the wife is glaring at me, promised i would stay off of here while on holiday.

Mick.

[Deleted]

Jun 19, 2010 20:20:16 GMT @heliharris said:

You know, I compared with the Neco this morning and I find the V-Can better. Smoother treble response and deeper.

I have been saying this for weeks now Ian, my Mikes modded V-CAN+ Little Pinkie seriously kicks butts in all departments, and is my favorite Amp at the moment.

And i much prefer Neco`s portable to his Mosfet V2 also, having given the portable a good listen over the last couple of weeks, update when i get back, the wife is glaring at me, promised i would stay off of here while on holiday.

Mick.

Hi Mick,

I feel that the V-Can is smoother and deeper than the Neco Portable which I also like a great deal.

Before the mods, I preferred the Neco. now, the V-Can is a serious sounding amp and at such a silly price. That's what amazes me along with the tweaking done by ear.

You've got to put a lot of trust in your judgement to be able to do that, but it just sounds right to me. Direct comparison with the unmodded version seemed very subtle at first. In fact, the widened soundstage was more noticeable to me and then further listening revealed great depth and a 'mellowness' to the sound that fills out stuff that wasn't there before.

What is also surprising is that the X-Can and V-Can have a siimilarity in sound now.

I'm not sure I could do that by ear myself. I don't have the confidence to make those judgements.

Anyway, the V-Can as it is Mike, is spot on imo.

[PinkFloyd]

I've fitted a couple of Burr brown OPA1644 opamps onto SOIC to Dil14 adaptors.....



I am listening to the V-CAN with the OPA1644 on board right this minute and, IMO, it is the best chip I have tried so far.... it has all the characteristics of the OPA4134 but with added depth, width and height.... this, IMO, is the best I have heard from the V-CAN.

TI tout it as "SUPERIOR SOUND QUALITY".... I don't disagree with this statement (read more about it here: focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/opa1644.html ) one of the cleanest BB (TI) chips I have ever heard.... it doesn't have the malty , syrupy signature so often associated with BB chips.... It's big and it's bold but it's not brash.....

I won't say any more about it.... I'd like to send a mounted OPA1644 each to both Rabbit and Heliharris (who have V-CANS) to try out (I'll get them shipped on Monday)......

All very well for me sitting here waxing lyrical about something only to find, in the real world, my "taste" may not be the same as the next man's taste so, from now on, all my recommendations will go though a panel of experienced listeners and, hopefully, a general concensus will be reached.

So, Ian and Mick, you fancy giving these a go? All you will need to fit them are a screwdriver and a steady pair of fingers..... the existing opamp is quite easy to remove, just grasp it at both ends and gradually ease it out of the socket with a gentle, slight side to side, rocking motion...... the Winslow adaptic adaptors are a tight fit so care is needed when removing them.... you want to get a central grip and ease them out uniformly to avoid breaking pins......

You guys know this already

Anyways, let me know if you'd like to tey the OPA1644 and I will get them shipped on Monday.

Mike.

[Deleted]

I'll definitely have a go with it Mike. Many thanks.

Thing is, you've given me a bum steer either indirectly before I actually appeared or here.

The V-Can is really surprising. It is a seriously good sounding amp and it's such a shame that they don't go out like this.

You seem to have this ear for a sound that is gutsy without over-statement and is very similar to my own tastes in sound. I really like the V-Can now and have developed a taste for that really hard to describe quality that all the MF amps seem to have, except (imo) the V8.

I initially liked the clarity of that one. It's really revealing but it doesn't have the earthiness of the V1 or V2. The V-Can has that earthiness in its sound that is really attention grabbing and makes the Neco (for me) a little edgy at the top. But then, that's the 8610 for you!!

Norman was fond of them in his Go Vibes.

[Deleted]

So, Ian and Mick, you fancy giving these a go? All you will need to fit them are a screwdriver and a steady pair of fingers..... the existing opamp is quite easy to remove, just grasp it at both ends and gradually ease it out of the socket with a gentle, slight side to side, rocking motion...... the Winslow adaptic adaptors are a tight fit so care is needed when removing them.... you want to get a central grip and ease them out uniformly to avoid breaking pins......

Yes please Mike, sounds great as is, but if this op-amp improves it still further so much the better.
Will contact you at the end of week regarding the other Amp, i will know then how much poorer i will be, and there are a few questions regarding it that i need to ask you.

Mick.

[Deleted]

oooh man ...... you're going for the big one aren't you? Now I am jealous!!!

[PinkFloyd]

I was messing about with another V-CAN today and this little amp is responsive to tweaks and quite easy to "tune" to taste

To be totally honest, before saying any more, the V-CAN (with a few simple tweaks) is certainly one of the best headphone amps I have heard and that really is saying something considering it only costs £70!!

Further to the "X-TRA" capacitance mods (which really cranked things up a couple of notches) I have homed in on a couple of key areas in an attempt to extract even more performance out of this little puppy and it has paid off.

First is the opamp. You're spoilt for choice here really with almost "all" of the quad chips from the Burr brown stable being a major improvement on the stock chip..... From the very expensive OPA404 to the OPA4227 to the OPA4134 to the OPA1644.... all bring about major enhancements to the sonics and "all" require ear time to choose the best for your own particular taste.

So far into the proceedings my personal favourite is the OPA1644. To my ears it is perfectly "weighted" across the frequency range and throws up a nice ballsy, warm, energetic, bassy and "grand" presentation.... close your eyes and you'd swear you were listening to an amp costing ££££.... open your eyes and be amazed to find "that" sound is coming out of a V-Can!

Anyways, enough waffling...... the minor changes I have made are as follows:

1: Solder the opamp directly to the board. The DIL14 turned pin socket is essential for opamp evaluation but once you have decided on the right opamp for your ears it's best to solder the chip direct to the board..... the OPA1644 is SOIC so already requires a SOIC to DIP adaptor..... fitting it into "another" adaptor is a long way round for a shortcut.... the less the adaptor the better the SQ / Period

NOTE: the OPA404 / OPA4227 / OPA4228 come in a DIP package so can be soldered direct without the need for adaptors..... all three are excellent in the V-CAN and, depending on your taste, may well be a better proposition than an OPA1644.

2: There are 2 x 1000uF caps situated just after the DC input.... these are both in parallel..... In my "X-CAP" mods I replace these with 2 x 2200uF..... in this incarnation I have fitted only 1 x 2200uF and bypassed it with a 3uF WIMA film cap in the spare slot. To my ears this simple little tweak has improved overall clarity.

3: Output coupling caps. Fitted a pair of Nichicon MUSE 16V / 1000uF.... will give them a few days in circuit before commenting on them but intial impressions are most favourable

Ian and Mick..... can you both PM me your address please? I'll get the OPA1644 over to you as soon as I get your details.... I know I should keep a record of your details but, old habits die hard, I like keeping a clean computer and mop up defunct emails daily.

Mike.

[Deleted]

Looks familiar to me.

I don't like the box for the V-Can but they really do sound good once you've got in there Mike.

When I first heard it, my feelings were 'middle of the road.' OK and a bit aggressive.

Now - Big sound. expansive. Good imaging and a really weighty sound that scales up without turning ugly.

Absolutely amazing value.

I still don't know how you can tweak much further and trust your judgement!! I like my current version so much I kind of use it as a special treat to listen to!!!

[PinkFloyd]

Jun 30, 2010 22:00:38 GMT @iancraig10 said:

I don't like the box for the V-Can

Get down to Halfords and buy a tin of Black (or any colour) satin spray paint. Rub down the top of the enclosure with 1200 grade wet / dry paper then spray on a couple of coats.....



I'm going to redo it cause "V-CAN" can still be seen (except now it is black instead of white!)

[XTRProf]

Jul 1, 2010 8:58:17 GMT PinkFloyd said:

I'm going to redo it cause "V-CAN" can still be seen (except now it is black instead of white!)

Err, what's wrong with white? White is also nice, IMVHO.

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2010 13:38:10 GMT XTRProf said:

Jul 1, 2010 8:58:17 GMT PinkFloyd said:

I'm going to redo it cause "V-CAN" can still be seen (except now it is black instead of white!)

Err, what's wrong with white? White is also nice, IMVHO.

Have you seen it? The big white lettering across the top of it that says V-Can?

Looks terrible. Makes it look cheap. Sounds fantastic though.

[XTRProf]

Jul 1, 2010 13:41:50 GMT @iancraig10 said:

Jul 1, 2010 13:38:10 GMT XTRProf said:

Heve you seen it? The big white lettering across the top of it that says V-Can?

Looks terrible. Makes it look cheap. Sounds fantastic though.




Err, what's wrong with white? White is also nice, IMVHO.

Ok, have a checko and found this:







Hmm, still looks ok to me. If to respary, might as well take it to the car shop to spray Ferrari Red car paint and put a Ferrari logo on it. Now that will not look cheap any more like this:







Of course, this is just an illustration as I had seen one of this much better decorated with the Ferrari Logo in Singapore. Mind you, this car is with a 6 gears transmission and I had driven one locally.

[PinkFloyd]

I've ordered a tin of primer and a tin of pink paint.... I'll strip the V-CAN back to the bone and then spray it all pink.... should look the business

[XTRProf]

Jul 1, 2010 14:22:19 GMT PinkFloyd said:

I've ordered a tin of primer and a tin of pink paint.... I'll strip the V-CAN back to the bone and then spray it all pink.... should look the business

Ah, now you are talking ........

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2010 14:22:19 GMT PinkFloyd said:

I've ordered a tin of primer and a tin of pink paint.... I'll strip the V-CAN back to the bone and then spray it all pink.... should look the business

WOW!!!!! A Pinkied Pinkety Pink Plonk.

You've done a nice job on the black Mike. But Xtrprof has a point. A red one would look Ferrari, a Pink one 'Pinky', a Black one as standard and a white for Ipods.

Stripes, stars. Glossy finish as well.

It'll double the price at least .........

One thing, I don't like that horrible volume knob!!! It looks like someone's pickle.

It looks like it came out of a science lab.

[elysion]

What about some custom artist painting/spraying on the case? (Maybe even something for the artist currently known as "M"? )

Once the anodized black colour is off, all possibilities are open. The white markings probably have been applied with some silk screen printing.

I know someone that is very good with spraying (not the Swiss bugger that was arrested in Singapore for spraying trains ). Perhaps he could make something out of one of my V-Cans. The optimal way would be to get rid of the anodizing first and after that new colour(s) could be applied and fixed by a new anodization process. Anodized colours are usually more durable than colours that are simply sprayed or painted on the case. Anodizing also creates a metallic shine. Of course painting/spraying is easier than a new anodization.

[PinkFloyd]

Jul 1, 2010 14:27:11 GMT XTRProf said:

Ah, now you are talking ........

It's fluorescent pink paint so should look quite effective at night.... I can shine my laser pens on it



[/quote]

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2010 17:45:11 GMT elysion said:

What about some custom artist painting/spraying on the case? (Maybe even something for the artist currently known as "M"? )

Is he the brother of the artist formerly known as P?

[PinkFloyd]

Next up (after the Pink case mods) I'm going to experiment with different transistors.... precision matched to replace the stock BD139 / 140.... hopefully that will add even more balls to the presentation

[PinkFloyd]

By the way, Ian.... the V-CAN sounds lovely with the HD-600 doesn't it? Cuts right though the "veil" and gives them more of an edge around instruments.... the more I listen to this amp the more I like it

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2010 19:36:19 GMT PinkFloyd said:

By the way, Ian.... the V-CAN sounds lovely with the HD-600 doesn't it? Cuts right though the "veil" and gives them more of an edge around instruments.... the more I listen to this amp the more I like it

The bass is beautifully controlled as well as being exceptionally deep . I also like it with the HD650. I don't know whether my Senns are all old or something, or perhaps my ears have just grown accustomed to them, but I always return to them and feel comfortable.

The HD600 is especially good whereas the HD650 is a bit of fun because for me, it's more coloured!! You had an absolute bargain with your HD600.

The V-Can has a really 'organic' sound as you have put it in the past. If you stuck it in another box and told someone that there were valves in there, they'd believe it I'm sure. It has something really gutsy about it without ever sounding nasty at loud volume.

I have to be very careful with the volume since it is easy to listen to at very high volume with no pain. It just grows with volume.

I'm really chuffed with it.