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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 14:00:15 GMT
Yes Ian, must say i liked all of the ones i tried, they all out score each other, in different ways, but to "my ears" the best all round SQ to my ear is the E Harmonix.  By what im reading, we must have been lucky with ours, not turning out to have a good reliability record at the moment, feel disappointed for those having problems, my turn next i expect, the way my luck is going at the moment  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 14:30:07 GMT
Hi Mick, Well, I hope all is well for you. There haven't been as many go wrong as I felt would at the start 'cos quite a lot have been sold. Time will tell I suppose. I had a problem with the power supply at the start, but just changed it and it was fine. If the amp continues to work well with no troubles, then I may get a beefier supply for it. I think that you have to be a little careful with the bias though because it doesn't seem to settle for a long time. If it's adjusted straight to 16.5, then it can get quite a bit higher if you leave it for a few hours. I only found out since I returned from my recent trip and thought, better check it just in case I'd set it incorrectly before. Did it after 5 minutes and then 40 minutes or so. Last check 3 hours later and it had crept up so backed it off. Still going fine (touch wood). I always worry about heat because I had a Little Dot that decided to fry itself for no reason and it went up like a cracker. I also fried a very expensive valve amp recently that totally embarrassed me because it was on loan to me from a dealer. (£24,000 for the system) He laughed it off, but I suffered right up until I saw him and still feel guilty, although all I did was turn it on. It's got me nervous of valves - even with the X-Cans, I still feel nervy!!! Trouble is, I really do like the sound of them all. Ian |
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robertkd
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Electronics Engineer from sunny Queensland
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Post by robertkd on Feb 21, 2010 14:36:15 GMT
People really this is nothing representative of valves, in fact the poor little chap is hardly able to do any work! The problems people seem to be experiencing seem to be more likely to do with the solder connections of the RCA connectors, hey just going on the symptoms  real tube circuits have 100+ volts on the anode (well real ones have much more ;D) edit  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 14:42:10 GMT
People really this is nothing representative of valves, in fact the poor little chap is hardly able to do any work! The problems people seem to be experiencing seem to be more likely to do with the solder connections of the RCA connectors, hey just going on the symptoms real tube circuits have 100+ volts on the anode (well real ones have much more ;D) edit I know Robert. It's just me and my neurosis backed up by amps literally blowing up on me and causing me to think about a second mortgage!!! I never liked the look of the RCA connection from the start and noticed that if you have tight fitting plugs (Like mine), then the chances of stressing that particular joint is high because it's only connected at the bottom. A good going over with a soldering iron might alleviate those things. But .... hey, mine's fine and sounds quite amazing for a cheapy. It matches the K701 really well actually. If mine blows up, I'll miss it a lot. PS - shouldn't you be in bed now? Ian |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 21, 2010 14:56:50 GMT
There I went and done it  I jinxed myself. everything was going just wonderfully then ...... I cry I have the same issue now that another member had so its Bravo - 2 Indeed - 1 this suks. here is what I did. I didconnected headphone and inputs, listened to another amp for a bit, reconnect the Indeed and with no input there was a sort of hummm at zero on vol pot , I was thinking oh noooooz , increase volume and no sound on left and right side sounds like shit. I go from Sooooooooooo Happy to TOTALLY bummed the phuck out. I guess its time to put the Indeed customer service to the test. how the hell did this happen ?.... SIGH, the other person that had this issue with the bravo I "think" had the issue from the get go. I had listened to it about 13 hours at the point it crapped out on me. I guess I'll go cry myself to sleep ... DAMN remind me to NEVER say shit is going good ever again  Oh shit Chaz..... that isn't good Do you have another power supply you can try with it? Mike. |
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robertkd
Been here a while!
Electronics Engineer from sunny Queensland
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Post by robertkd on Feb 21, 2010 14:59:41 GMT
People really this is nothing representative of valves, in fact the poor little chap is hardly able to do any work! The problems people seem to be experiencing seem to be more likely to do with the solder connections of the RCA connectors, hey just going on the symptoms real tube circuits have 100+ volts on the anode (well real ones have much more ;D) edit I know Robert. It's just me and my neurosis backed up by amps literally blowing up on me and causing me to think about a second mortgage!!! I never liked the look of the RCA connection from the start and noticed that if you have tight fitting plugs (Like mine), then the chances of stressing that particular joint is high because it's only connected at the bottom. A good going over with a soldering iron might alleviate those things. But .... hey, mine's fine and sounds quite amazing for a cheapy. It matches the K701 really well actually. If mine blows up, I'll miss it a lot. PS - shouldn't you be in bed now? Ian mmm bed ah yeah I remember that  Hey I like the circuit topology it should work fine and I suspect your right a good going over of the solder connection might be in order heck my last tube amp I worked on was 10KW PEP  |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 21, 2010 15:07:52 GMT
Don't worry Ian..... those RCA sockets on the Bravo aren't going anywhere, they're as solid as a rock  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 18:36:51 GMT
Don't worry Ian..... those RCA sockets on the Bravo aren't going anywhere, they're as solid as a rock Thing is Mike, if it did a Little Dot fireworks display on me, at that price, I'd get another and play around with the old one and a soldering iron just to pay it back!!!! ;D I've been listening for most of today on the 701's and it's got a terrific sound that makes you wonder whether £500+ amps are actually worth that kind of money. Another one that I have which also shines is a relative of the Banzai. Cheap as hell but sounds bloody good. Just a plain CMoy. Makes you wonder whether modern designs have become too complex or expensive in terms of improvements in sound. (Well, it makes me wonder anyway!)  Ian |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 20:26:04 GMT
Don't worry Ian..... those RCA sockets on the Bravo aren't going anywhere, they're as solid as a rock Thing is Mike, if it did a Little Dot fireworks display on me, at that price, I'd get another and play around with the old one and a soldering iron just to pay it back!!!! ;D I've been listening for most of today on the 701's and it's got a terrific sound that makes you wonder whether £500+ amps are actually worth that kind of money. Another one that I have which also shines is a relative of the Banzai. Cheap as hell but sounds bloody good. Just a plain CMoy. Makes you wonder whether modern designs have become too complex or expensive in terms of improvements in sound. (Well, it makes me wonder anyway!) Ian Makes me wonder if your typical muso has had his ears f***ed by too much up and close exposure to his own loud music ! You could also try a "wax job" Line up the "crown jewels" between 2 house bricks and clap the bricks together. All the wax will pop out of your ears . ;D Have you ever had your ears syringed by your GP ? I had a mate who played in a friend's band, and we nicknamed him DC1. People used to give him heaps behind his back, until one day he had his ears syringed, and he gave me a lift home that afternoon. He even whinged about the noise from his vinyl jacket on the trip home . The fun part was at work the next day, when he didn't let on about the ear wax removal. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 20:29:45 GMT
Thing is Mike, if it did a Little Dot fireworks display on me, at that price, I'd get another and play around with the old one and a soldering iron just to pay it back!!!! ;D I've been listening for most of today on the 701's and it's got a terrific sound that makes you wonder whether £500+ amps are actually worth that kind of money. Another one that I have which also shines is a relative of the Banzai. Cheap as hell but sounds bloody good. Just a plain CMoy. Makes you wonder whether modern designs have become too complex or expensive in terms of improvements in sound. (Well, it makes me wonder anyway!) Ian Makes me wonder if your typical muso has had his ears f***ed by too much up and close exposure to his own loud music ! You could also try a "wax job" Line up the "crown jewels" between 2 house bricks and clap the bricks together. All the wax will pop out of your ears . ;D  Who said that? Eh? Actually reading my post back ....... I don't mean that a Bravo is the equivalent of a £500 amp Alex. I wonder whether the improvements are worth £400 more. Try the Bravo and compare ....... In shows, it's a professional secret. We listen on little earpieces that turn it down for us. Ludwig V2 Ian Beethoven |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 20:41:27 GMT
And in rehearsals and just plain having fun ? Which BTW, was what my reply was. Call it payback for your suggestion in Saucereful ! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 20:44:59 GMT
And in rehearsals and just plain having fun ? Which BTW, was what my reply was. Call it payback for your suggestion in Saucereful ! Who? Me? I never fool around Alex. ;D You do make me laugh though!! You know, I didn't think you'd seen that post and thought I'd got away with it. ;D Just shows you, always thinking about you eh? Ian |
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Post by MaN227 on Feb 21, 2010 22:14:36 GMT
update, and its GOOD news today .... after calming down (sweet leaf ) I had a look at everything again. and low and behold the eFFn RCA cable itself has gone to sh!t, I verified it with the Heed. this may sound odd but this is the Very first time I have had a cable fail, mind you if was not the best of cables ....... feel a wee bit silly but ... optimistic so known issues so far Bravo - 2 Indeed - 0 Idiot on parade  - 1 ;D going to town today or tomorrow to pick up an new cable . any suggestions for a decent (meaning don't cost an arm and a leg) RCA that is SINGLE in DOUBLE out? power supply seems fine as does the rest of amp, LOVE it !! yes I do have another valve/tube Ian, a JAN Phillips 6922. I would however like to get my hands on one of the Russian NOS I hear some speak of. If someone could help me out I'd appreciate it. Peace, and as always THANKS  Oh shit Chaz..... that isn't good Do you have another power supply you can try with it? Mike. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 21, 2010 22:52:43 GMT
Ian, You haven't gone deaf and the difference between a good £30 amp and a mediocre £500 amp is "marginal". Forget all this CRAP about "distortion" and "measurements"...... your ears KNOW what's good. I TOTALLY agree (and have for quite some time now).... these "over complex" amps actually detract from the musical enjoyment. Look at the HEED canamp (for example) one of the best amps I have EVER heard yet the "experts" slagged it off because it didn't have a regulated power supply and was a "simple" circuit....... Hundreds of people on Head-Fi agreed with me that it sounded better than most of the large / costly / regulated "wankfests"...... a few years down the line and even the "mags" agree with me..... here is the Hi-Fi Choice review in it's entirery: "Many audiophiles use headphones to enjoy their system. While some people are compelled to do so by their living circumstances, others simply prefer cans to loudspeakers. However, some amplifiers either have no headphone output, just as they don't have phone stages, or if they do have one, it is often just a simple IC-based stage.
Regrettably, even many outboard amplifiers resort to this simple - and cheap - solution, making it impossible for headphones to perform at their best. Let us introduce the CanAmp, offering a no-compromise solution at a realistic price - in fact, given its technology and manufacturing quality we might even say at a "discount" price.
Headphones can be considered as high quality loudspeakers, but with a much lower power requirement. For this reason, they have distortion levels an order of magnitude lower than conventional speakers, and therefore are capable of showing up amplifier deficiencies more clearly. What's more, headphones are one-way systems, with very few exceptions, and for this reason crossovers do not interfere with sound quality. Consequently, a headphone amplifier must offer the best possible sound quality, even at very low volume levels, whilst working not unlike a real power amplifier.
The CanAmp is a two-stage amplifier. While the first - voltage gain - stage is based on an integrated circuit of the highest audio pedigree, the second - power gain - stage is a single-ended, pure Class-A amplifier. It enables the CanAmp to drive virtually any headphones from 8 ohms up to 600 ohms. As its output power (at 8 ohm) is nearly 1W, the CanAmp could drive even a high-sensitivity loudspeaker!
The unit has no internal wiring, and the signal path is kept to a minimum on its PCB. Its high-quality, 1 dB-tolerance Blue Alps volume pot goes through a further selection process during manufacturing to achieve an even tighter, 0.5 dB tolerance.
The CanAmp not only has a line-level input but offers a line-level output to boot; it can therefore be connected to the TAPE MONITOR output of an amplifier, leaving the TAPE output free for additional components (MP3, MiniDisc, CDR, etc.). Gold-plated RCA terminals are used, and soldered directly onto the fibreglass PCB.
Measured performance is excellent, the bandwidth going far beyond the audio range in both bass and treble, with low distortion into any normal headphone impedance and plentiful output.
Output level isn’t everything and the Pro-ject will in any case drive even harder, but this amp impressed not least on account of its large audio scale. Indeed, even with quite modest volume-control settings the soun just seemed big and generous, tonally, dynamically and even spatially. Once again, there’s a lot of detail, but the dominant impression is of size.
Funnily enough, this was perhaps more pronounced with some unaccompanied solo vocals than with orchestra or mega-rock, but that just serves to remind one that the human voice can indeed be a very big instrument. Perhaps if you like your music a bit on the polite side this may seem a touch excessive, but we freely confess that we just loved it. Tonality is great too."It was £199 a few years ago it is now £400..... nobody is "questioning" the design now.... it's generally accepted that the HEED makes "music", period. I don't want to upset fellow forum members / friends but I am getting sick and tired of the "we know best" attitude that is creeping in here.... most of these guys own "one" amp and have never HEARD anything else (let alone the amps they are criticising from the comfort of their armchairs)...... We get feedback from people who actually OWN and LISTEN to an amp and then these self proclaimed "experts" chime in with "it can't be good / you must be deaf" type remarks..... I'm all for free speech but I think it's high time that reviews of equipment should be limited to people who actually "own" and have listened to the item in question. For someone who hasn't even SEEN the Bravo / Indeed amps in real life (let alone HEARD them) to comment on the SQ is not really on is it? In my opinion (having heard both the Bravo and Indeed amps) they give the majority of mainstream (expensive) head amps a bastard good run for their money. I can't, and won't, beat about the bush and profess that a Sugden headmaster (for example) sounds better than a Bravo / Indeed because it doesn't..... I make money from modding X-Can amplifiers and I'll (again) be honest with you...... there's not a lot in it between an Indeed / Bravo and an X-Can V8. So, Ian, you are right..... the differences between a "mega buck" amp and a well designed "el cheapo" amp are not vast. Pinkie. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 21, 2010 23:27:07 GMT
I'd also like to add....... most of the "manufacturers" also haven't heard the competition and their only reference point is their own design using their own set of ears...... Think about it |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 21, 2010 23:34:54 GMT
By the way guys.... the Chinese New year is over (I kept my promise not to show pics of the new Indeed G2 amp until after the new year)...... Here it is:   Armchair experts feel free to comment |
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Post by clausdk on Feb 21, 2010 23:46:53 GMT
Funny, the reveiw was slagging the headout on "normal" amps, my Yamaha cheapo plays very well into headphones.
It is not Xcan level but close enough to that I use that quite often, it also has "endless" power, which a lot of the portable amps lack at least the ones I have own(ed) (Ibasso D10, Headsix, X1, Ibasso T2).
D10 is almost as expensive as the "normal" amp (incl. a set of not so good speakers), maybe 100$ in difference..
It is more often a matter of mood, or music-choice which amp i use when I listen hard, than the illusive thing called sound-Q..
Also we are all going more and more deaf as we age and when we were young we did not appreciate "real" good sound, it was more about blowing candles with the bassport..
I could easyli be well off with my Yamaha and a pair of q-JAYS or even 681, but I like the hobby, it is not too expensive and you meet a lot of kind and pleasent people..
I have yet to meet a headnerd that I did not like, all just wonderfull people..
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Post by clausdk on Feb 21, 2010 23:51:05 GMT
I wonder what that little box to the right of the knob is ?? It is yellow on the g1.
3,5 jack ?
Also is it for two sources or pass through ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 0:16:36 GMT
Mike If you carefully reread my remarks, you will find that they were tongue in cheek and aimed solely at Ian as payback for his mischievous comments in Saucereful. Why don't you ask Ian how he took the comments ? Alex P.S. As for restricting comments to those who actually own the equipment being reviewed, that is restricting freedom of speech, and everything reviewed is likely to become the "flavour of the month"(if it isn't already !), and to hell with technical excellence, as long as it is cheap, novel, and performs O.K. Perhaps it is about time that later products from the major established suppliers like Heed were sought out for review ? Seems like it might be about time for this self professed "armchair expert" to get the hell out of the toyshop" ? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 0:43:19 GMT
Indeed G2 Here it is: Armchair experts feel free to comment I'm in my armchair but I still can't hear it So Mike, do you have the basic technical differences? Guesses= Smaller cap, bigger transistors, two 'phone sockets, VRs gone, white switch moved to the front, pass through added at the back or as claus suggested switched source? mods to the o/p stage. C'mon, dish out the noos. |
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Post by oohms on Feb 22, 2010 5:07:11 GMT
It looks like they have a relay to switch between 2 inputs, and they have upgraded the output stage. The bias adjustment pots are still there (one is slightly visible between the tube and the transistors) I would love to see a schematic of this Wait a second.. on second thought, there doesn't appear to be a transistor attached to the rearmost heatsink  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 8:44:23 GMT
If you carefully reread my remarks, you will find that they were tongue in cheek and aimed solely at Ian as payback for his mischievous comments in Saucereful. Why don't you ask Ian how he took the comments ? I'm absolutely fine Alex. No offence was taken whatsoever. I knew that you were joshing me but I think Mike objected to the idea that it appeared you were slamming me down for saying something stupid, using rocket science as the weapon!! (And a heavy dose of sarcasm I might say..... ;D) I think the common appearance of that kind of reply on other forums was the trigger. I don't often appear in other places because people say those types of things and really mean it. I know you were giving me a kick up the pants but hadn't realised it was for that other comment about tubes!!!! Thought you'd missed it actually. I didn't take offence but I can see why Mike did take offence. I loved his reply though. What a stunning piece of writing. there's not a lot in it between an Indeed / Bravo and an X-Can V8.Now there's something that I was quietly thinking but thought I'd better not say. It just seems odd that a thing like the Bravo is giving the V8 a hard time!!! Mike puts things in a much better way than I can. He's a mine of information even when he's having a rant!!! Scary. Ian
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toad
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Post by toad on Feb 22, 2010 9:15:12 GMT
I'm not into bling but why the hell do these amps have to look so bloody good... Must... Resist... |
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Post by MaN227 on Feb 22, 2010 10:07:02 GMT
I'm not into bling but why the hell do these amps have to look so bloody good... Must... Resist... bling? 2 led's, plexi glass, metal spacer and screw caps.... and and a aluminum knob you get me to thinking as I look at the indeed on the desk, it'd be awesome to bling it up a bit chrome spacers and caps would look sweet with the shiny tube top and the leds to reflect more light. hummmm ;D may as well throw this one out. what I think would look very good is if you could add a blue, red or whatever color led on the volume knob where the marker is (a dim one, no blinding lazer beams for me thanks ) ... It'd be very nice but I have no clue if it can be done. My first AV receiver a Harmon Kardon had the light at the volume marker and I very much liked it. maybe somehow move the red one? ok, I'll sit here and keep dreaming up crazy sh!t, don't mind me  Peace |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 22, 2010 10:25:52 GMT
I'm not into bling but why the hell do these amps have to look so bloody good... Must... Resist... bling? 2 led's, plexi glass, metal spacer and screw caps.... and and a aluminum knob you get me to thinking as I look at the indeed on the desk, it'd be awesome to bling it up a bit chrome spacers and caps would look sweet with the shiny tube top and the leds to reflect more light. hummmm ;D may as well throw this one out. what I think would look very good is if you could add a blue, red or whatever color led on the volume knob where the marker is (a dim one, no blinding lazer beams for me thanks ) ... It'd be very nice but I have no clue if it can be done. My first AV receiver a Harmon Kardon had the light at the volume marker and I very much liked it. maybe somehow move the red one? ok, I'll sit here and keep dreaming up crazy sh!t, don't mind me Peace Remember to skin the caps and polish them with Brasso too ;D |
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