Can a UPS enhance hearing experience?

[Deleted]

You are free to disagree and KISS my ass too But I respect Rick's views just as many others too. I'm very very confident he had done more research on this matter than you did.

XtrProf
Rick was knowledgeable in many areas. However, as far as I am concerned he was stuck back in last century, just as you appear to be.
Despite the many opportunities, did anybody ever see anything made by Rick ? Rick was given the opportunity to show his wares with the SC HA,
and also invited to do likewise with other projects before that. Despite the main components being generously donated to Rick by an RG member, the promised competition prize never saw light of day.
I realise that Rick's lack of presented projects in this forum, may have come down to financial problems, and perhaps lack of time, BUT we were never given the opportunity to judge Rick on what he put together.
I did not want to post this, but you should not have used Rick's name to state your views that the JLH is not capable of making considerable improvements over the huge capacitor banks that you seem to prefer in the name of "K.I.S.S." The JLH is also more cost effective and less real estate consuming, especially the later PCBs that even you have now ordered.
SandyK

P.S.
At last count there would have been >120 JLHs used worldwide in SC HAs (Jaycar) alone. Is everybody wrong?

[Deleted]

On the above mentioned Lampizator filter the MOV (varistor) is connected only from L to N on the output.If they had performed real EMC tests (like I do for my work on a regular basis) they would know better and mount it on the input AND add another one from Neutral to GND.a lightning strike close-by can still destroy the expensive equipment behind the Lampizator filter.

Frans
My own filter does incorporate a Varistor from Neutral to Earth as well.
In many Countries the Neutral is tied back to Earth at the premises.
e.g. Australia
Lampizator, like CMOY, is just another instance of standard textbook circuits being given credit to somebody who made popular projects using them.In the link that JeffC provided this was indeed stated as coming directly from published textbooks.
Alex

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2010 22:26:23 GMT @solderdude said:

Exactly..

That's why a separate thread may be of value !
Really interesting stuff .... this hearing/brain thing.
I think the difference in hearing/perception of people is much greater then the differences in amps.

Hi Frans,
This is exactly the subject that I would like to hear aired. IMHO it could be part of the reason that certain listeners claim in all sincerity to hear things that others claim do not exist or cannot even possibly exist or cannot be measured therefore do not exist.
I don't know how to explain my thoughts properly but the science and measurement of audio signals depend on wholly inorganic equipment whereas the bit from the ear flap to the brain is wholly organic (although I accept that there is some commomality in that minute electrical signals play some part in each process). If you add into this mix the fact posted above that not all pairs of ears are matched pairs and each may react differently to the same sound, it's perhaps not surprising that any two persons listening to the same sound may hear different things.
I love hi-fi/audio and forums dedicated to the subject but, as a newcomer I was shocked at the animosity that exists between different camps (viewpoints). If some sort of concensus of opinion could be formed whereby many more of us can agree that perhaps many of the differences between us are largely due to how each of us process the bit that happens after the ear flap receives the signal rather than the bitching that currently occurs between proponents of one view and others who don't share this view.
Just my late night ramblings ,
Dave.

[Deleted]

If some sort of concensus of opinion could be formed whereby many more of us can agree that perhaps many of the differences between us are largely due to how each of us process the bit that happens after the ear flap receives the signal rather than the bitching that currently occurs between proponents of one view and others who don't share this view.Just my late night ramblings ,Dave.

Dave
It is a waste of time. This has been attempted in many forums, even in DIYAudio recently where thousands of posts were made.
I doubt that even a single poster had his views changed by the time the thread had to be wound up because of the usual name calling.
Alex

P.S.
Engineer speak : "I can't measure it, therefore you must be imagining it ! "
;D

[elysion]

Jul 22, 2010 23:05:40 GMT @sandyk said:

Engineer speak : "I can't measure it, therefore you must be imagining it ! "
;D

I know a few people that think exactly this way. While not generally wrong, I think it sometimes misses a point or two... but sometimes this thinking is right...

We have to live with the fact that our hearing is somewhat "personal" and "subjective".

[Deleted]

It MAY be a waste of time for certain members.
Others would love to debate/defend their own standpoints and read/debate about those of RG members they have come to know (and respect or not)

You don't have to come to a concesus (there isn't one and there will never be one ) BUT it is good to hear viewpoints from members instead of reading those of unknown people in other forums or read the tons of articles that already have been written about this subject.
They often do not cover the points of view the members themselves have.

It also might give some fireworks...

And who knows ... one might learn from other viewpoints when we are not single/narrow minded people.

hearing, smelling, tasting, seeing and remembering are extremely complicated proceses and also 'linked' and have to do with HOW are brains are wired and things are interpreted.
Especially the last bit is where the differences lie the most (the personal factor).
The thread would be about the interpretion of 'things' in a different way.

Wether it's a waste of time (what isn't ?) could be for the members / thread visits to decide ?
If it bleeds who cares no one will be interested and the thread can be moved to the dead zone in no-time.
If it takes of like a rocket it will have served the purpose of this great and versatile grotto ?

[Deleted]

And who knows ... one might learn from other viewpoints when we are not single/narrow minded people.

Frans
This is a small sample of the fireworks you can expect :
We both know that no matter what is said, that your views on this subject will not change the tiniest bit !
It will most likely once again become a brainwashing exercise by the Engineers among us to attempt to convince people what they claim to hear is all in their minds, and can not be verified by your much vaunted Double Blind Tests ,(which many people elsewhere dispute the validity of due to short tert memory, and other causes such as stress when being made to perform under pressure to a group of your peers) or your difference amplifier technique. I feel that it will just descend into another attack on people who claim to hear differences between headphone cables etc. You even disputed that people could hear differences between speaker cables.That time Robert KD was not in complete agreement with you .
Alex

[Sol]

For me it simply comes down to this:

If someone believes that they hear differences that's enough for me regardless what "Science" says! I'm simply too old and chilled to care to enter a protracted argument with people at the other end of a keyboard.

"What's true for you is true" - whether it's a real or perceived change to the negative or positive - it's a change for you at that time! The fact that it can't be duplicated under ABX testing simple proves that the perceived or real benefits are not evident under ABX for that given set of circumstances or environment, not that the user did or did not hear differences to the positive or negative in a different set of circumstances or environment.

ABX or critical listening is fraught with problems ... e.g.
There have been several occasions where I've changed something which I have perceived to have been of benefit ... but at a later stage turns out to be something I perceive to be negative over a period of time. This is mostly because at first any heard change will highlight the obvious ... but often comes with a less evident negative that shows itself as an irritation, often after several days. revert back to the previous config often then confirms the irritation is removed. What's interesting for me is that a switch to the new config often then confirms the irritation has returned, BUT, the initial perceived benefits no longer stand out!

All this means is that you should trust your ears, but don't be afraid to revert to double check, admit your mistake. Part of the enjoyment of system building for me has to been to swop and play (within my budget) and revisit old stuff I know well. Eventually over several years I've found a system I can live with (and it still seems to be missing something) ... BUT I get a sense of satisfaction when someone visits, and they comment on how nice my set up sounds! Especially when we discuss the total cost is far less than they might imagine. On an aside, they all prefer the streamed or CD based stuff, not the Vinyl. They've all been blow away by the headphones set up - but interestingly can't really vocalise why!

[Deleted]

It will not be about you and/or me Alex or our 'believes/convictions' but about perception in general.

It's an interesting subject nonetheless...
But if you do not agree about making such a thread just leave it be and let's not satisfy our and others curiosity about this subject and put this thread back on track (UPS/filtering)

[Deleted]

Hi Guys,
I agree that Alex's opinion is probably correct in that, if the discussion was allowed to go that way we would more than likely finish up with a slanging match between the believers and the unbelievers and that's the last thing I would want to see on this most friendly of fora - let's keep it that way, please .
I don't think that there is any realistic possibility that the opposing 'camps' in this debate will form any sort of concensus on which 'camp' sees the true 'light'. I would like to see the thread directed more towards a discussion of what may happen AFTER the sound hits the ear flap and whether that might go some way to explain why some acute eared listers are convinced that they can hear aspects of sounds that other acute eared listeners can't hear and therefore do not believe exist.
To do this I guess we would need to have contributions from audiologists, neurologists and others who may actually know what I (we?) can only guess at.
I personally believe that what happens after the sound hits the ear flap could possibly explain most, if not all, of the different perceptions of the same sound - anybody fancy a PhD project? .
Dave.

[Deleted]

Jul 23, 2010 9:46:13 GMT @solderdude said:

It will not be about you and/or me Alex or our 'believes/convictions' but about perception in general.

It's an interesting subject nonetheless...
But if you do not agree about making such a thread just leave it be and let's not satisfy our and others curiosity about this subject and put this thread back on track (UPS/filtering)

Frans
I don't have a problem with the thread you would like to see, but you have to take into account that the vast majority of RG members believe in subjective changes, even if you believe they are impossible.
If the vast majority were in agreement with you, Mike's modifications that leave many people very happy with the perceived improvements, would no longer exist. Valve rolling as a pastime in RG using different makes of the same valves with similar specifications, would no longer go on. Neither would opamp swapping in the vast majority of cases with recently produced Audio type opamps. I doubt that you even believe that people can hear a difference in a suitable circuit implementation, between a DIP8 (or SOIC ) LM4562/LME49720 and a LM4562HA/LME49720HA (metal can ) ?
Alex

[XTRProf]

Jul 22, 2010 22:31:12 GMT @sandyk said:

You are free to disagree and KISS my ass too But I respect Rick's views just as many others too. I'm very very confident he had done more research on this matter than you did.

XtrProf
Rick was knowledgeable in many areas. However, as far as I am concerned he was stuck back in last century, just as you appear to be.
Despite the many opportunities, did anybody ever see anything made by Rick ? Rick was given the opportunity to show his wares with the SC HA,
and also invited to do likewise with other projects before that. Despite the main components being generously donated to Rick by an RG member, the promised competition prize never saw light of day.
I realise that Rick's lack of presented projects in this forum, may have come down to financial problems, and perhaps lack of time, BUT we were never given the opportunity to judge Rick on what he put together.
I did not want to post this, but you should not have used Rick's name to state your views that the JLH is not capable of making considerable improvements over the huge capacitor banks that you seem to prefer in the name of "K.I.S.S." The JLH is also more cost effective and less real estate consuming, especially the later PCBs that even you have now ordered.
SandyK

P.S.
At last count there would have been >120 JLHs used worldwide in SC HAs (Jaycar) alone. Is everybody wrong?

Me stuck in the last century? You got to be kidding. Just see how open I take things to the limit whether in livelihood, as posted in a thread here on another fellow being, music, as posted in the music thread, challenged some of the best engineers in the super regulators game to support their claims, again as posted in one of the thread here, as well as how I look at things simple instead of complex. Just think of it. A 49 years old (then) shaking hands and embracing the new pop group Ting Tings? Open or last century guy? Huh?? Also, I look at international thinking and will condon them into my system when I see fit and not be restricted by the technicality. Btw, I come from a technical college and do see the engineering point of views and calculations as ingrained by my formal lecturers (who were all former engineers, btw). As I'm open, I'm not sucked into that black hole. You are the one stuck in the last century, behind older than me, just like my father. I'm Americanised free thinking. That should be how we should progress without boundaries. Are you trying to say, the Japanese being very good at KISS in audio are lousy. There are numerous owners of Japanese hiend stuffs many many more so than the JLH. Come on, just wake up and face reality. I do remember how Rick said Graham Slee is an old weezer. Now where is he in Grotto? I remember too you endorsed him then ...... But now? Ahem, ........

Also, when I spoke of having super regulators for my X-Dac V3 many moons back, you said it was a waste of time and that the JLH is EQUALLY as good. Now you are endorsing shunt regulators from Paul Hynes as a possible betterment to JLH. Funny. Also, when I spoke of super clock and crystal, you said, we should not be able to hear the difference. Yet you are endorsing a new crystal clock for the dac now. Funny again. Like I say, am I behind time or you yourself??? Also, you are the one who endorse technical purely and now you are talking against technical and against the engineers and be a ZenTech? Really cute ........ Who is more open minded, may I ask?

I'm not defending anybody. But Rick was struggling to make ends meet. He was also having a serious heath problem that he might not be aware of before he discovered too late and succumbed to cancer. Then how do we expect him to have the energy, mind and heart at doing projects when he is not fit in the first place? These projects don't earn him wages that would enable his family to survive. Come on, just take some sense into yourself. You are retired and comfortably on pension. Without work, you still can survive and have many hours to work on leisure like hifi projects unlike many who cannot do or come by without working. After work, how many will have enough energy to do projects like those published here? Of course, if your job calls for doing things technical (like a R&D lab or Diagnostic Lab or your own tech biz), you can do it jointly. I had seen engineers in those groups doing their own projects before in my former MNCs. I shall not name the MNCs. Sorry. I'm sure you know who yourself is if you see this. Btw, why should I get involve with Rick's problems and get myself into a mess? This is just because I see the light and is daring to voice out, just like Rick, to put an alternative point across. Last century guy by doing this? Huh ?

I had orderd the JLH out of respect for Rick and cancer research and may not consider using it. Come on, how to use 20 of them? Crazy, right? Also, I'm going towards super regulators. Check with Jon for proof if you want proof. How come I did not order it the first time (about 2 years ago) when Rick is still alive? Come on, don't be sinister and be open about things.

[Deleted]

Like I already said.

This new thread would NOT be about me (or you) or my (or your) convictions.
It would be a thread about perception and the differences between this from person to person.
That would be interesting in reckon.

Since there is no such thread here (except on specific subjects as cables or certain equipment) it appeared to me as a usefull addition to the Grotto and hope many will agree.

[Deleted]

Hi Frans,
I for one share your view that it would be an interesting thread to swap opinions on but I suspect that we are in the minority .
It might also prove to be divisive as others with a less open mind try to be missionaries for the true 'path' as they 'know' it. Perhaps best to let sleeping dogs lie, eh? .
Dave.

[elysion]

I'm for free speech: If anyone wants such a thread he can IMO open such a thread. If no one is interested, no one does reply. It's that simple...

[Deleted]

remember how Rick said Graham Slee is an old weezer. Now where is he in Grotto? I remember too you endorsed him then ...... But now? Ahem, ........

Rick never showed that he could produce products that performed as well as Graham Slee's products. Perhaps he shouldn't have said that ?
At least Graham Slee makes a living from selling his products.
The present issue that I have with Graham is only since he "saw the light"and became what some would say a little "eccentric".
I have never said that Grajham's products do not perform well in their target market, but I totally disagree with his present direction where he rolls off the HF and LF parts of the audio spectrum in order to keep K701 owners happy , as well as try and emulate the warm valve sound that some seem to crave.

RE the Paul Hynes Regulators -

I frowned on their use because the Paul Hynes regulators are an assembled and expensive commercial product,
whose cost can't be justified by most people, especially in inexpensive projects..
Just as the cost of the expensive Erno Borberly shunt regulators can't be justified in an inexpensive upgrade project, let alone fit inside the existing case.
Were the expensive Paul Hynes plug in 3 terminal voltage regulator replacements even available back then ?
In any case ,are you are so closed minded,that you are unwilling to even try a JLH which is a very inexpensive alternative to the highly
regarded commercial products ? I have never claimed that they will outperform the non DIY commercial products. I do however claim they will make a very worthwhile improvement in most cases.

So you are smitten by gorgeous blondes who can sing a note or 2. Does that make you unique or modern ?

Re Xtal Oscillators -
If you carefully re read the SC DAC thread, I said that I am not sure that they made a worthwhile contribution, and asked for other reports.
In the SC DAC, the Xtal oscillator is used as a reference ONLY. The work is done by the PLL, where it benefits from better "flywheel " components.
I have fitted a 1PPM Xtal oscillator module to the X-DAC V3,
and improvements are debateable, as the PSU area is the main contributor to performance of the Xtal oscillator.
It also has a period of mediocrity, until it reaches a thermal equilibrium.

P.S.
Look in the mirror. You are becoming just like your father!
As much as we hate to admit it, that happens to most of us as we age !

[XTRProf]

Jul 24, 2010 0:28:46 GMT @sandyk said:

remember how Rick said Graham Slee is an old weezer. Now where is he in Grotto? I remember too you endorsed him then ...... But now? Ahem, ........

Rick never showed that he could produce products that performed as well as Graham Slee's products. Perhaps he shouldn't have said that ?
At least Graham Slee makes a living from selling his products.
The present issue that I have with Graham is only since he "saw the light"and became what some would say a little "eccentric".
I have never said that Grajham's products do not perform well in their target market, but I totally disagree with his present direction where he rolls off the HF and LF parts of the audio spectrum in order to keep K701 owners happy , as well as try and emulate the warm valve sound that some seem to crave.

Well, at least Graham is more open than you to do that. Btw, Graham is just one of the many designers out there in the pack and not the ONE or AUTHORITY in audio. Rick was probably referring to that when he said that he's an old weezer. Given an equal footing (ie producing products just like Graham to earn a living) and not handicapped from the circumstances surrounding him, I'm sure Rick would have come out with better sounding products as he was willing to be open and try and not stuck in one time frame like you. That's what the American spirit is all about. Without boundaries .........

Jul 24, 2010 0:28:46 GMT @sandyk said:

RE the Paul Hynes Regulators -

I frowned on their use because the Paul Hynes regulators are an assembled and expensive commercial product,
whose cost can't be justified by most people, especially in inexpensive projects..
Just as the cost of the expensive Erno Borberly shunt regulators can't be justified in an inexpensive upgrade project, let alone fit inside the existing case.
Were the expensive Paul Hynes plug in 3 terminal voltage regulator replacements even available back then ?
In any case ,are you are so closed minded,that you are unwilling to even try a JLH which is a very inexpensive alternative to the highly
regarded commercial products ? I have never claimed that they will outperform the non DIY commercial products. I do however claim they will make a very worthwhile improvement in most cases.

I never said that I'm not going to try. I said most probably. This is because after the numerous reports of good results with super regulators, especially Paul Hynes, I might as well jump on the bandwagon straight away. I don't have much time due to work and family commitment. Just as many here struggling to balance. As you know, I'm not in the technical biz or arena ........

Jul 24, 2010 0:28:46 GMT @sandyk said:

So you are smitten by gorgeous blondes who can sing a note or 2. Does that make you unique or modern ?

OMG, just see how narrow your prespective is. I'm for the music and fun of good music as many can see in me. You want me to get black eyes from Jules, the other part of Ting Tings? I'm not a Black-Eye Peas genre type. So don't force me to be a Black-Eye Peas fan. Can you take the Ting Tings and go to their concert, btw? Since you said I'm trying to be unique or modern. I never claimed to be unique or modern, just open ......... I'm happy with my looks .......

Jul 24, 2010 0:28:46 GMT @sandyk said:

[
Re Xtal Oscillators -
If you carefully re read the SC DAC thread, I said that I am not sure that they made a worthwhile contribution, and asked for other reports.
In the SC DAC, the Xtal oscillator is used as a reference ONLY. The work is done by the PLL, where it benefits from better "flywheel " components.
I have fitted a 1PPM Xtal oscillator module to the X-DAC V3,
and improvements are debateable, as the PSU area is the main contributor to performance of the Xtal oscillator.
It also has a period of mediocrity, until it reaches a thermal equilibrium.

I don't think anybody will want to give their comments freely if there is going to be a headon debate on it unconstructively. If there is free speech to share the experience no matter how "stupid", yes ........... We must be in "brainstorming" mode.

Jul 24, 2010 0:28:46 GMT @sandyk said:

[
P.S.
Look in the mirror. You are becoming just like your father!
As much as we hate to admit it, that happens to most of us as we age !

Like I had said earlier, I'm OK with my looks. I don't want to be unique and modern and cut those new wave hairstyle or dress like those singers or rock bands or, worst still, go facial treatment. But I'm NOT OK with a father or, in fact, any person who is not open to ideas and new thinking. Btw, my father is also an engineer who had worked in the Singapore Telecom services like you.

[Deleted]

Gentlemen....
Please....

let's call it a draw and let this thread be about UPS and filtering again ?

Frans

[jeffc]

I'll second that, AC filters ??

Schematic for my DIY filter courtesy of Mr Lampizator
www.lampizator.eu/AC%20FILTER/SILK/SILK.HTML
Parts needed (see schematic for list)

Prototype build that worked a treat with DACs and CDPs that convinced me to build something more substantial

My 3 x outlet Silk-230 RFI AC Filtet box, recycled premium wooden wine storage box, each outlet filtered independently, 2 for low current gear like DACs, CDPs, Preamps etc, 1 for higher current power amps.

OK what you boys really want to see, its pink bits

And a pink bit close up for guys like me with failing eyesight


You'll note that I used a single 10 cm ferrite rod for the active and neutral wire turns (inductors) rather than 2, and hopefully this is OK technically. . Wire used was ~10A solid-core copper I had lying about for active and neutral, ground was ~15A stranded, again what I had lying about, the kinds used commonly in house wiring. The Box has slide-in back plate to keep spiders and fingers away.

Go to town will feedback. First seems to be the Alex/Frans recommendation to stick an additional varistor from neutral to ground, I'm assuming after the other components next to the other but please advise.

Does it improve the overall sound of my system, IMHO yes, and considerably compared to the gear plugged directly into wall outlets.

cheers..jeffc

[Spirit]

Well it was a nice pine? box... at least till I put a dent in the top of it.

Sorry Jeff!

[Deleted]

Jul 25, 2010 5:26:58 GMT Spirit said:

Well it was a nice pine? box... at least till I put a dent in the top of it.

Sorry Jeff!

Phil
Depending how large the dent is, you may need a much larger pine box ? ;D
Alex

P.S.
Did YOU notice any improvement with it in circuit ?

[Will]

Nice, tidy build there Jeff, very nice.

I would guess that the effectiveness of this unit on SQ is dependant on how noisy your incoming mains supply is? It is very intriguing, and something that I would like to try.

Do you still use the 'back-to-back' transformers (balanced power?) with this unit?

I'll be re-decorating our living room next year (full re-plastering job), hopefully, and the spare way in my fuse box keeps winking at me. The idea of running a dedicated supply for my music listening pleasure is very tempting.

Frans - Good Call!

[elysion]

DIY linefilters are great... but what about standard UPS?

I don't say everyone should buy an UPS just for audio use. The original idea was slightly different: If you already have an UPS (for example for IT use), why not use it also to connect your audio gear.

I got great results with my UPS's and I think a lot of this success depends on the sine-wave regeneration and line-filtering. IMO you can improve the sound of a device with a cheap wallwart/PSU simply by connecting it to the UPS. I hear a clear improvement with some gear. Everything that's connected to the UPS gets clean power and it helps to calm down a noisy electrical environment where you are using a lot of devices together (in my case a lot of IT gear and some audio gear).

One of my friends is still using my two Eaton PowerWare UPS's. He loves them and he is hearing also a very substantial improvement. It's an immediate improvement, just connect the devices and enjoy. Probably devices that have already very good PSU's (Little Pinkies for example) will not show an improvement since they have already clean output. But all those devices with bad or mediocre wallwarts/PSU's will show an improvement.

An example: My V-Can's (with the crap wallwart that's included in the delivery) don't sound the same if the wallwart is connected to the UPS.

[jeffc]

Phil, no probs, you didn't see it, I have plenty of wood filler, and it had dings already as I picked up these boxes by luck at a curb-side cleanup.

Alex, Phil didn't get an opportunity in the mini DAC shoot-out to test his Buffalo2 plugged directly into the wall. I'll wire up the prototype I still have with a with a cord and drop it in so he can have some extended quite time listening to his DAC via it to see what his impressions are. otherwise I'll have egg on my face.

Will, agree completely, any sonic improvements will depend on just how noisy you AC lines are and what filtering is already in your gear.

Regarding the balanced-isolated 240V supply generated by wiring twin transformers back to back (commercial units often just use a single huge VA one with a 120-0-120 primary and 240-0 or 120-0-120 secondary), as mentioned, I need to play with these some more. There’s lots been written for and against them, toroidal transformers not being ideal etc, but in my experience they can do a terrific job of killing ground mode noise which reduces the sonic noise floor greatly, with corresponding sonic benefits. That said, I just haven’t had time to tinker more to get around the constriction they can place on the fluidity and openness of music (and there are technical reasons for this that the EE amongst us might elaborate on more), and specifically with testing the use of capacitors between twin transformers as well as DC blocking. Have the parts, just not the time. Some links on others adventures.

diyparadise.com/web/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=77&Itemid=26
diyparadise.com/forum/index.php?topic=1111.0
sound.westhost.com/articles/xfmr-dc.htm

cheers.. jeffc

[Deleted]

Regarding the balanced-isolated 240V supply generated by wiring twin transformers back to back (commercial units often just use a single huge VA one with a 120-0-120 primary and 240-0 or 120-0-120 secondary), as mentioned, I need to play with these some more. There’s lots been written for and against them, toroidal transformers not being ideal etc, but in my experience they can do a terrific job of killing ground mode noise which reduces the sonic noise floor greatly, with corresponding sonic benefits. That said, I just haven’t had time to tinker more to get around the constriction they can place on the fluidity and openness of music (and there are technical reasons for this that the EE amongst us might elaborate on more),

\Jeff
Personally, I don't see the need for such extreme measures.
I also feel that they are likely to restrict dynamics when used with an amplifier.
Perhaps Frans would like to give a few thoughts on these areas ?
Alex