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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 9, 2010 21:10:47 GMT
By the way guys, these are both respectable firms and the reason they have them in stock is that Russia is a VERY large country and, as such, there will be more kicking about over there than there are here in the UK (zero at the last count) the only major problem is the language barrier and they don't seem to bothered to translate everything into English for one, solitary, pair of headphones.... perfectly understandable, if I had some guy writing to me in Russian I'd think it was a virus.... wouldn't have a scooby what he was saying If any of you have the time, it may be worth phoning these two companies and ask if they have an English speaking member of staff...... "hello! DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH?" "Nyet" "How did you understand my question then?" "Nyet" "Are you taking the piss?" "Nyet" "I am PinkFloyd from the Rock Grotto Forum, can I speak to your leader please?" "Nyet" "I have a large box of salami sausage and chocolate" "Nyet" "OK.... I'll throw in some Marlboro cigarettes and nylon stockings" "Ah, Hello comrade, how can I help you?"
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 9, 2010 22:41:55 GMT
Yup, yup yup..... yup? "because music matters... yup? "
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 9, 2010 22:56:23 GMT
Yup yup (solo) yup you yup yop (chorus) yup yup (mental chainsaw 600BPM solo) "oh yeah" (heavy garage mix) "yupyupyupyup".... (yeehaw "grabs crotch") "greenhouse stylee"...... yup yup yop (coldframe beat) "night people" (cardboard box thump).... yup yup yup, caravan people.... tent people (yup) sleeping bag people (yup)...... carboard box people let me hear you say "OOOO OOOO!"
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 9, 2010 23:01:43 GMT
Sorry I am officially "out of it" for this evening's session.... Nighty night sweetheart
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Dec 10, 2010 0:27:43 GMT
I refer you to my last post in the "I'm currently listening to" thread.
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Post by MaN227 on Dec 10, 2010 4:21:58 GMT
thanks for new info Mike
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2010 8:44:27 GMT
;D ;D ;D Plus a couple of Premier Football teams, and the 26% of London Real estate that`s not already in your possession, for two pairs, but they must be in unopened boxes. Mick.
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Post by colinb on Dec 10, 2010 14:14:24 GMT
Hey Guys, Just read this thread recently now. That FR graph has to be from a total dud or from a HD250II that has something adjusted wrong in it.
It possible this pair had punctured pads or pads that were not clipped in properly, - that kills the bass entirely. There is variation in the sound HD250IIs due to the drivers (must be tension etc I guess), , - some pairs sound more bassy than others, some pairs sounds brighter and some duller, but pretty much any pair fixed up (with damping rings, good sealed pads (and the pad hole mod if required), sealing on the port it required, and everything checked it is clipped in properly) would have a much better FR graph than this. Something is obviously wrong there! As for the difference between the channels in this graph it could be driver differences (I had that before for sure on one pair of mine) but I think its more likely to be something not clipped or sealed properly to a different extent on my side compared to the other in my experience.
I guess its likely these Russian ones are form the same batch. I do not have certain experience with HD250IIs that I know for sure were from the same batch but I am guessing the Russian ones be likely to sound similar to each other because of this. So perhaps the first few to buy will be Guinea pigs!
When buying any pair check some basic things out to make sure you will be getting proper performance. Check if the pads are good and not punctured, that they are clipped in properly, and that the white damping ring under the black ear foam is present too (essential for good sound). To check all this just pull the pads off hard, - they should come off OK, unless they are very old and perished you will risk ripping from pulling them, but if the pads look sturdy you should be OK. When putting the pads back put the white ring and black foam on first then push the pads back, - push all the way around making sure it clips all the way around.
Franz I am not sure about the 400Hz hump you talk about, - I really do not notice that with any of my HD250IIs. I would say the HD250II is a headphone that definitely does not have focus on the mids, in fact it’s a bit sucked out/U-shaped there in general on a good performing pair and there should be no lower mid emphasis at all. The bass (particularly lower bass) and highs should appear a little bit stronger than the mids if the headphone is working properly. Perhaps the pair you had was dodgy or it was not adjusted right?
Cheers, Colin
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2010 15:01:02 GMT
Hi Colin,
That's exactly what I said, I quote:
Also have to say the I do not particularly 'believe' the HD250-II graphs. Yes.. the peak in the highs I heard is defenitely there but the huge bass extension is not there. At least not in 1 channel.
and: the few dB hump around 400 Hz might explain.... notice ... might because I cannot confirm at this moment.
As far as I can remember them, they appeared to be better with female voices then male voices (the sucket out part) so kinda asked Mick but he either missed it or didn't agree.
The one I had (and still could get back as I sold them to a collegue) were equal in left and right (I am very sensitive to that) and had HUGE bass and the sucked out mids and the nice and superdetailed silky highs. To me there was a tiny bit 'closed' sound and male voices did not sound right, at least not to me. You also get this when you turn up the 300-500Hz equaliser a bit like the graph, hence my 'suspicion' this might have had something to do with it.
It replaced my then broken DT990 and had auditioned about every affordable can I could try out. The HD250-II sounded the best of all of these and was rediculously cheap as they were clearing out.
After more then a year it started to annoy me (possible something was not O.K. anymore regarding holes but thought it sounded the same. Only when I heard the HD650 next to it I preferred the low distortion and voices in general better... Still prefered bass and treble of the HD250-II over the HD650 but as I am very sensitive to small distortions the odds were in favor of the HD650 TO ME.. Personal taste.. go figure..
Colin I will be contacting you via PM within 2 weeks or so...
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Post by colinb on Dec 10, 2010 16:30:48 GMT
Hi Franz, Cool yeah what I meant was I agree with you of course, - that is sometime dodgy with that FR graph for some reason. Yeah I am very sensitive to left and right imbalances too!
I'll try what you say with equaliser on the computer to see if it makes male voices sounds worse with the HD250II but it does seem a bit weird to me. I have not really personally noticed the closed sound and problem with male voices you mention with any of the HD250II I have had. This headphone has a very open sound for a closed phone in my opinion.
Like I said to you before different HD250IIs I have had do seem to have different levels of audible distortion as well as different FR traits. Some do sound noticeably less distorted than others.
Different pads can make a big difference too, - pads can vary in thickness and firmness. And even one particular set of pads might sound better on a certain pair but not so great on another pair!
Feel free to PM me anytime. BTW I am getting the HIfiman HE6 on loan the week after next. It might not have the bass I want but am hoping the treble will be more to my liking than the LCD2 was. I will try Eqing it too to add a low bass peak. If its good I might consider getting one. You need a very powerful headphone amp or a speaker amp to drive it but that OK I have a few speaker amps.
Cheers, Colin
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2010 18:35:20 GMT
Solderdude: The Headroom impedance graph of the HD250 seems not to be available.
It's interesting to read how Headroom's view of the can changed after a few years:
Headroom November 1999 Sennheiser's old sealed standards resurrected. Comfortable with great bass. We're really glad to see HD 250 II back. Our favorite sealed headphones are the Beyer DT 831, but since they lack a bit in the bass, we've had trouble recommending them to rock and rollers. Now we can (again) recommend the HD 250 II, which do a great job delivering a driving bass line. They also have clean, clear highs, but lack a bit in the midrange.
Headroom June 2004 Big and light, but far too bright. At one time these were among the best sealed cans out there. But time’s gone by, and things have gotten a lot better. These sound too bright and too boomy at the same time.
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 10, 2010 19:37:20 GMT
[/i] Big and light, but far too bright. But time’s gone by, and things have gotten a lot better. These sound too bright and too boomy at the same time. [/quote] So what NEW cans better these? I've tried K701, HD600, HD650, various Grado, I favoured the HD250's II over any of those. Only new cans I did like better and that was the HD800, very nice and well balanced but look at the price difference
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 10, 2010 20:12:12 GMT
[/i] Big and light, but far too bright. But time’s gone by, and things have gotten a lot better. These sound too bright and too boomy at the same time. [/quote] So what NEW cans better these? I've tried K701, HD600, HD650, various Grado, I favoured the HD250's II over any of those. Only new cans I did like better and that was the HD800, very nice and well balanced but look at the price difference [/quote] Same here Leo, I MUCH prefer the HD-250ll to anything I have or have ever had, the HD-250ll just seem to make everything else sound "lightweight" to me.... they are VERY addictive!
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Post by Seamus on Dec 10, 2010 21:32:28 GMT
Chaz.... this company accepts paypal but I can't figure out the Russian language in the "estimate shipping" section..... maybe you could fire them an e-mail too. Mike. I think that place you linked to Mike is in Athens, Greece. I speak about as much Greek as I do Russian but it looks like they only give shipping prices inside Greece. If the Russians don't accept Paypal it maybe worth emailing these guys for those who want it.
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Post by colinb on Dec 10, 2010 21:40:59 GMT
This is what I find too and why I can’t use any other headphone. Everything else sounds lightweight to me and just wrong in comparison. No other headphone has that solid foundation these headphones too and I believe it comes from the very low bass peak/ideal falling line they have Franz explained before in the LCD2 thread (Forgetting that Headroom FR graph posted here recently it has to be wrong for some reason). The increasing volume these headphone have as the frequency lowers is ideal for headphone listening and sounds far better than a “flat” headphone like the LCD2 and many others in my opinion, - the LCD2s just sound too lightweight. (and people think the LCD2 is a bass monster, - it does have extension but its nothing compared to the HD250II in my opinion, - its far more lightweight sounding and inadequate for me after being used to the HD250IIs). Even something like the HD600 (which is considered to be good in the bass too) sounds lightweight compared to these IMO.
I don’t think anything else has the FR of these phones apart from the slightly cruder sounding Superlux HD681. But my plan right now to try to improve upon these is to start with a flatter headphone than has a similar treble balance, - possibly the HD800 or the HE6. And then try to EQ the bass to sound more like the HD250II so they don’t sound lightweight. I have a Behringer digital EQ unit I am going to try to use to put in a bass peak, - centered on a nice 20Hz to try to replicate the bass balance of the HD250IIs.
I am getting the HE6 on the loaner program at the end of next week will post how I get on. Cheers, Colin
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 10, 2010 22:46:54 GMT
Colin, The HD-250ll are the headphones my mind has always thought how a pair of headphones should sound.... the BASS (listening to a few YELLO tracks) is how I always expected the "best" headphone to reproduce.... As LOW as it goes, the 250 make your toenails curl up and rattle your teeth.... HD *** K *** etc. etc. they just sound WRONG to my ears and not a "little bit" wrong, TOTALLY wrong! BASS (and LOW bass) is an essential component in musical appreciation.... the HD and K and DT just don't seem to be able to do that low end ..... It's not "ALL" about the low end but the 250-ll (IMO) is the ONLY headphone on the planet that can do bass like that.... they are magical The first time I listened to the HD-250 with Yello's "The Eye" album I SERIOUSLY nearly shit my pants.... WTF was that??!! the low end extension was like no "low" I had EVER experienced before.... it was "low" with fekkin' TURBO boosters kicking in.... an absolute "revelation" for me (headphone wise) I had never (and still haven't) experienced such a DYNAMIC presentation from a pair of 'phones.
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Post by videoguy on Dec 10, 2010 22:56:29 GMT
Hi Mike: Please send me the information on the HD250 II's. I have not been able to find any on ebay here in the states.
Thank You Bill W.
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Post by colinb on Dec 11, 2010 1:45:52 GMT
Hi Mike, Yeah I totally agree. The difference is not subtle at all, - its massive and its all in the unusual bass response of this headphone (compared to most other headphones around). I agree totally, - the dynamic presentation and extension is just how I always thought a pair of headphone should sound. Feeling the bass extension down to your toes is not an exaggeration. I don’t really know how its possible but with this headphone, it feels like the earth moves! I listen to Organ music (church Organ), one of the few common instruments that naturally has sub bass present, - right down to 16 Hz. No other headphone I have heard reproduces a pipe organ like the HD250IIs can. I just really wish there were some other headphone around with the same type of FR, but there really is nothing else apart from the Superlux HD681 that sounds even slightly similar as far as I am aware and that’s still quite some way off. The far pricer Denon 7000 might have a slightly similar FR but I from looking at the graph I don’t think it would have quite the same extension as the HD250II, and it almost certainly would not have the treble I want. Still have yet to try the HD800 and though I bet its very good in some regards but I am 99.9% sure it won't have the bass extension capability the HD250II has. Some bass Eqing might help but I still am not sure it it will approach the HD250IIs bass even with help. (I will report when I eventually try it) Cheers, Colin Colin, The HD-250ll are the headphones my mind has always thought how a pair of headphones should sound.... the BASS (listening to a few YELLO tracks) is how I always expected the "best" headphone to reproduce.... As LOW as it goes, the 250 make your toenails curl up and rattle your teeth.... HD *** K *** etc. etc. they just sound WRONG to my ears and not a "little bit" wrong, TOTALLY wrong! BASS (and LOW bass) is an essential component in musical appreciation.... the HD and K and DT just don't seem to be able to do that low end ..... It's not "ALL" about the low end but the 250-ll (IMO) is the ONLY headphone on the planet that can do bass like that.... they are magical The first time I listened to the HD-250 with Yello's "The Eye" album I SERIOUSLY nearly shit my pants.... WTF was that??!! the low end extension was like no "low" I had EVER experienced before.... it was "low" with fekkin' TURBO boosters kicking in.... an absolute "revelation" for me (headphone wise) I had never (and still haven't) experienced such a DYNAMIC presentation from a pair of 'phones.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2010 9:58:45 GMT
We all agree the HD250-II is a very good sounding can with very deep bass extension and increased treble what most men over 40 really appreciate. No matter if we like to admit it (I do) the treble region of our hearing does get less over time. a natural process which falls upon each individual. doesn't mean we don't know how things should sound as the brain adjusts because ones ears are always active, even asleep, and know how things sound in real life.
Some prefer other cans over the HD250-II but it is very possible they never heard it and if they heard it, heard a dud or a good one.
After all... audio is very individual and all about preferences and taste.
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Post by MaN227 on Dec 11, 2010 11:15:42 GMT
one of these days.......... one of these days ........ sorry I was day dreaming there
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leo
Been here a while!
Team wtf is it?
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Post by leo on Dec 11, 2010 18:59:20 GMT
Must be a variation, my ears can't cope with over bright at all, the HD250 II I have doesn't have any problem there. HD650 are probably the worse cans I've heard, its like listening to speakers whilst your in another room
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xerxes
Been here a while!
Posts: 1,115
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Post by xerxes on Dec 11, 2010 19:27:10 GMT
Weird isn't it, I absolutely love my 650s. I've never tried the 250s and because I like the 650s so much, I've pretty much stopped looking at other full sized headphones with a view to replacing them. I don't get all the talk of a "dark, veiled" presentation, they seem to do everything about right to my ears. Like you, I can't bear a too bright presentation and seem to be very sensitive to overly hot treble via both speakers and headphones. Worst headphones I ever tried were the Sennheiser HD595, waaaaay to bright form me and were said to have a more "Grado like" presentation, which was enough to put me off ever trying any Grado headphones, but plenty of people love the 595s and Grados, so it's clearly an incredibly personal thing. I have just ordered a pair of portables that might possibly replace my Koss Portapro, just waiting for them to arrive in the post.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2010 19:48:00 GMT
Yup... that's called taste and preference.. One likes this, the next one likes that... plain and simple.
There is no one single best headphone out there. There is one best suited headphone out there for each individual.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 11, 2010 21:29:29 GMT
I agree re: the HD-600 / HD-650.... before the arrival of the HD-250ll linear I thought the HD-650 were the best things since sliced bread. I just cannot listen to them now, it's as if they have no bass at all... almost as if someone has hoovered it right out of the equation. In fact, the HD-250ll linear's have put me off ALL of my headphones. They were with me for two days, on day three I put my ATH W-1000, HD-600 and AKG-K701 up for sale. I thought all three sounded absolutely "lifeless" in comparison to the HD-250ll Linear, really pale and anaemic. I hate droning on about the "bass" over and over again but, quite simply, the HD-250ll are the ONLY pair of headphones I have heard that can DO bass "realistically".... on a bass rich track they will make your toenails curl up. Not "bloated" bass, not "over emphasised" bass, not "boomy" bass...... just "proper" bass, the way bass should be... as I say, natural sounding (when it goes low it digs into the earth and you can almost FEEL it) . Colin, I also listen to the Organ (Nigel Ogden radio 2 is great) mostly Phil kelsal and Reg Dickson type stuff Yup, I can understand why you love the HD-250ll Linear's so much, they give great insight (accurate insight) into how a real organ actually sounds in the bottom octaves. It's not ALL about the bass though, the mids are very articulate and detailed and the tops are also quite realistic, not overly "smooth" or "harsh"... just right... the rasp of a muted trumpet RASPS as it should, there is no smoothing over.... I could waffle on all night about them. To my ears they are what I have been searching for in a pair of headphones, for many years... a pair of headphones with REAL bass (I said the "B" word again ) and bass that ONLY kicks in when it should ( if it's on the recording).... not like a car boot "boom box" which thuds away 24/7 I urge anyone with a pair of these to listen to Yello (The Eye) try the track "Junior B" with all your other headphones and then have a listen with the HD-250ll Linear If you don't exclaim "HOLY FIG" when you hear the extension in that opening few bars then you must have corks implanted in your lugholes. There are very few tracks, very few recordings, where the bass capabilities of the HD-250ll are TRULY revealed but this is one of the golden tracks that clearly show they are the best "if it's on the recording I'll reveal that bass as it should be revealed" pair of headphones on the PLANET! After selling off my "prized headphones" I (wrongly) thought that there must have been something wrong with my Sennheiser HD-600 (they had been my reference point for years).... I even posted to the effect that I thought the "bass" had disappeared through years of heavy usage. Play.com had one of their "daily offers" on and a few of us here got a brand new pair for £99 GBP shipped.... They arrived and I was glad to see them back at the Pink Ranchero.... I gave them a good leathering (a good thrashing) for 48 hours and sat down for a listen.... my first thought was "where's the bass!?".... I just couldn't listen to them! The HD-250ll Linear's have TOTALLY spoilt me and (I'll say it again) once you've experienced that "bass" there really is no going back to these airy fairy sounding headphones like the K-701 / HD-600 / SR-225 / W-1000 etc. etc. etc. Sure, you can spend a few hours listening to them and get used to them (your mind soon adjusts) but as soon as you go back to the HD-250ll Linear's that "energy" descends on you like a ton of bricks and you just KNOW this is how a pair of headphones "should" sound like The HD-250ll Linear were, for me, a true revelation... a truly jaw dropping "Holy Fig" moment.... a never before experienced moment. Colin, I can fully understand why you have many pairs of them. If my pair packed in I would give up headphone listening (Full stop)..... The thought of having to listen to my music through a pair of these airy fairy, so called "high end" 'phones is a fate worse than life itself. I am slowly "releasing" my headphone armoury (quite extensive) to the market and will replace with HD-250ll (as and when)..... To be honest, I have only heard TWO pairs and both have been spot on.... I haven't been party to these "odd sounding" HD-250ll's that a few people have reported exist..... I just hope the 3 pairs I have ordered (two new, one secondhand) will be enough to see me through my lifetime and be the "bass rich" variety. Jesus, I'm almost 50 so ONE pair should see me out to the finishing point Anybody want to buy a BRAND new pair of HD-600 (boxed) for £99 shipped? Mike.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 11, 2010 21:38:13 GMT
BTW..... A bit of Reg
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