MF X-A1

[clint]

I want to replace the two big Teapo caps ( 10.000uF/50V )in the X-A1 for a better ones. Any advice?

[skunkworks]

Whooaaa! I traded a set of spare speakers for a MF x-a2 yesterday.
It sounds incredible. and since the x-a1 and x-a2 are allmost identical, I'd like to know more too.
Maybe pink can make an upgrade set for these too?

[clint]

Mar 1, 2009 22:20:05 GMT skunkworks said:

Whooaaa! I traded a set of spare speakers for a MF x-a2 yesterday.
It sounds incredible. and since the x-a1 and x-a2 are allmost identical, I'd like to know more too.
Maybe pink can make an upgrade set for these too?

It will be great. If they sound incredible just as they are, i can't imagine what will they sound like with a few cap upgrades.

[XTRProf]

Mar 1, 2009 20:22:57 GMT clint said:

I want to replace the two big Teapo caps ( 10.000uF/50V )in the X-A1 for a better ones. Any advice?

Try Elna Audio if on the cheap. If money no object, try Elna Cerafine or Blackgate FK series, I think .........

[clint]

Mar 2, 2009 14:16:46 GMT XTRProf said:

Mar 1, 2009 20:22:57 GMT clint said:

I want to replace the two big Teapo caps ( 10.000uF/50V )in the X-A1 for a better ones. Any advice?

Try Elna Audio if on the cheap. If money no object, try Elna Cerafine or Blackgate FK series, I think .........

Tanx.
I have two more questions:

Where can i buy those high capacitance caps here in Europe?

Is there any relation between these caps and the output power SAP15 power transistors?

[XTRProf]

Mar 2, 2009 14:41:20 GMT clint said:

Mar 2, 2009 14:16:46 GMT XTRProf said:

Try Elna Audio if on the cheap. If money no object, try Elna Cerafine or Blackgate FK series, I think .........

Tanx.
I have two more questions:

Where can i buy those high capacitance caps here in Europe?

Is there any relation between these caps and the output power SAP15 power transistors?

I really don't know where to buy them in Europe as I can easily buy them from DIY shops in Singapore. Try Pink Floyd, the owner of this site here. Yiou can be in luck. PM him. Altenatively try Maplin, RS, Farnell, Digikey and Parts Connection in the US or Canada. There may be branches in the UK.

There is no relation between the capacitance of the PS smoothing caps (your 10,000 uf) and the power output. Higher capacitance just make the amp sound with more bass. However, before increasing capacitance, make sure your PS transformer can take the surge. Increasing it by 10 to 20% capacitance is usually ok. I wouldn't try more than this when the transformer in the amp can't take the current surge with larger caps installed on switch on.

Hopes this helps.

[Deleted]

Clint,

Here are the main suppliers in Spain, only standard stuff I'm afraid. I still have not found a good source in Spain, I go to German or UK online stores for anything more audio specific (or beg off other Grotto members!) .

es.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=50v+10000uf&x=18&y=13

www.micropik.com/pag_cond_elect.htm

[clint]

Many tanx for the input guys.
I think i'll wait a while maybe Pink chimes in. The past year i'd bought the X-10D caps and diods upgrade from a very nice guy here in the forum but i don't remember his name....sorry.

[matt7941]

Re the caps.

I replaced the Teapos in my A3 amp (albeit 6800uf and not 10000uf) with the Panasonic TSHAs which are readily available from RS. They did seem to be somewhat better than the Teapos, plus one or two of the Teapos did appear to be bulging. I presume some of the caps already mentioned may give a better result but the difference would, I presume, be minimal. The TSHAs do seem to quite well reviewed in other forums for just this purpose and they do appear to let the music flow nicely.

One other contender in the UK might be the Mundorf Mlytics from www.diyhi-fi.co.uk (or possibly www.hificollective.co.uk, I don't see them listed but they may be able to source them as they stock everything else Mundorf). I have used various Mundorfs and found them more than acceptable in various applications, but it must be said mainly in the signal path.

BTW, if it uses the MC33079P quad opamp try replacing this with the LM837N (if you can find one), the opa4227 or the opa404. I found a massive difference for the good by using either the opa404 or the LM837N. Mike has found a similar difference in his current thread re the V-cans headphone amp when using the opa4227.

Cheers

Matt

[clint]

Tanx Matt.
I don't remember saw the opamp you're talking about, i'll check it out soon.
I have a friend who have a broken old Rotel from the mid 90's with two Rubycon 8.200uF/50V/ 85º they are ok and he sells them cheap. Do i give it a try with these caps with a lower temperature rating?

[clint]

Well, i'd change the caps, and feel great. More clarity and dynamics.

[XTRProf]

Mar 3, 2009 14:55:21 GMT clint said:

Well, i'd change the caps, and feel great. More clarity and dynamics.

Hi Clint,

You should at least stick to the same cap size. Now you have decreased capacitance by about 20% with resulting increased in ripples before the regulators and reduce your bass (subjective) by doing that.

[clint]

Mar 3, 2009 16:20:19 GMT XTRProf said:

Mar 3, 2009 14:55:21 GMT clint said:

Well, i'd change the caps, and feel great. More clarity and dynamics.

Hi Clint,

You should at least stick to the same cap size. Now you have decreased capacitance by about 20% with resulting increased in ripples before the regulators and reduce your bass (subjective) by doing that.

These caps cost me 10 €. Do you think i should put more capacitance in parallel to prevent any damage?

[XTRProf]

Mar 3, 2009 19:03:05 GMT clint said:

Mar 3, 2009 16:20:19 GMT XTRProf said:

Hi Clint,

You should at least stick to the same cap size. Now you have decreased capacitance by about 20% with resulting increased in ripples before the regulators and reduce your bass (subjective) by doing that.

These caps cost me 10 €. Do you think i should put more capacitance in parallel to prevent any damage?

Yes, if I were you, as paralleling caps also has another advantgae and that's it reduces impedance and resistance of the PS as well. Try to put some really good caps like Elna Cerafine for the job as now you are talking of smaller cap value (maybe 3,900 uf or 4,800uf) and that wouldn't cost you a bomb when comapred to at 12,000 uf. Also, put some some good quality small bypass caps of say 1uf as well.

[Deleted]

These caps cost me 10 €. Do you think i should put more capacitance in parallel to prevent any damage?

Clint

There won't be any damage. It is highly likely that the new Rubycon capacitors are doing a better job right across the board, than the old ones you replaced. Don't forget that Electrolytic capacitors have a typical 20% tolerance in their actual values. It is possible that your new ones may be close in value to those you removed, judging by your comments.
It is however best to replace with a value at least the same as the previous capacitors,as XTRProf says, however that is not always possible due to supply situations. With Rubycon capacitors of the type you have installed, there may be negligible benefits by fitting a 1uF parallel capacitor. They are of more value with typical generic electrolytic capacitors. They more than likely already have a fairly low E.S.R. out to 100KHZ. You can check that by looking at the manufacturers data sheets. Shoving parallel capacitors willy nilly across existing capacitors, whether PSU ,or existing I.C. bypass capacitors, does not guarantee improved performance , and in some cases may induce "ringing" It is a very complex subject, where a lot of other factors come into play, especially the length of PCB copper traces, and interaction with the output of the voltage regulators. As Robert says, it can be a combination of "black art" and science.
I think that XTRProf thinks all design engineers are dills, and only use the number and type of capacitors they do, just to achieve a minimum standard of performance and cut costs?

SandyK

[clint]

Many tanx for your input guys! I think i have 1uF nichicon caps i'll give it a try.
One more question:
Can i bypass the Rubycons with 1uF nonpolar caps?

[XTRProf]

Mar 4, 2009 22:44:47 GMT clint said:

Many tanx for your input guys! I think i have 1uF nichicon caps i'll give it a try.
One more question:
Can i bypass the Rubycons with 1uF nonpolar caps?

Yes as non polar electrolytics are technically superior to the polar types. But generally, the bypass cap must be better quality than the large PS cap it is intended to bypass to have the lowest impedance in the hf region to assist the "clumsier" large PS cap. So a better bet will be a MKP unless you have a non polar BG or a Cerafine in which case the technical details will surpass the MKP. Yes, I emphasise OBJECTIVE TECHNICAL and not SUBJECTIVE here. So see whether you like MKP or non polar BG or Cerafine for yourself. Btw, I love my Super E-cap BG and Cerafine in my X-Dac V3 over the Wima MKP technically as well as subjectively.

[clint]

Tanx amigo.
Theres a lot of positive vibes in the forum...

[XTRProf]

Mar 5, 2009 13:25:19 GMT clint said:

Tanx amigo.
Theres a lot of positive vibes in the forum...

Gracias, Signor ........

[clint]

I found four 0,47uF Elna Cerafine so, i'll put two of them in parallel with each Rubycon and see (listen) to what happens.

[XTRProf]

Mar 5, 2009 20:10:55 GMT clint said:

I found four 0,47uF Elna Cerafine so, i'll put two of them in parallel with each Rubycon and see (listen) to what happens.

Great! Yes, 2 in parallel. But you are not doing it in a Super E-Cap manner as that needs non polar Cerafine.

Just do it and see whether you like it, anyway.

[clint]

Well, i've done that and i'm very content with it. The sound seems more "tight" and the high freqs in the B&Ws sound more smoother. Everything seems in the right place in the musical spectrum. It's incredible what a few caps in the right place can do to overall sound.
Because of that, i just ordered a few Elna Silmic II and some Nichichon ES and KZ to recap what's left from the other Teapo caps in the amp.
Tanx.

[skunkworks]

So, was it really worth the efort?
Can it be compared to the x-can upgrades from mike or doesn't it do as much?
I'd like to be sure before I take my X-a2 apart.

[clint]

Mar 7, 2009 18:39:59 GMT skunkworks said:

So, was it really worth the efort?
Can it be compared to the x-can upgrades from mike or doesn't it do as much?
I'd like to be sure before I take my X-a2 apart.

So, your the kind of guy that stands behind and see what happens hem? ...Just kidding.

Well, i'd made the X-D10 upgrade from Grotto forum and i'm very pleased with it. Imho and with the help of these amigos, this is just a cap quality upgrade with a little tweak in main ps caps. I'm waiting the lytics arrived and then i have better opinon about the overall upgrade. 'Til now everything sounds just great. This is in fact a very nice amp. Also i have another MF unit - the preamp 3A-X from the 80's - which i want to upgrade...and i don't see much info about it...but that's for another thread.

[skunkworks]

I only have the amp since last week and don't like the thought of pulling it apart and make it fubar. (f*cked up beyond all recognition)
Like to hear about the final results.
I did the X-can v3 upgrade yesterday and even without burning in it sounds excellent. If you experience the same good results with your x-a1 I will recap my x-a2 aswell.