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Post by krisno on Feb 7, 2009 17:24:18 GMT
But has noone tried switching them out? Can they be the source of the fatiguing sound? The 'burned' solder transistor is the one just below the PSU! It is in the 'middle' of the board... What is that? Voltage regulator.....? can it be switched?
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Post by dejanm on Feb 8, 2009 8:08:26 GMT
krisno,
It is not voltage reg. but rather the same thing that you can see on the pic above but for another channel.
Replacing these output darlingtons and transistors might be a good idea, especially if there are some newer models that perform better than these used by MF. Does anybody know such models ?
This replacement is a bit more complex than the others though, because I believe that they have to be matched first ...
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Post by krisno on Feb 8, 2009 12:53:27 GMT
Dejanm
These transistors, aren't they the most sound affecting component except for the tubes? In a tube amp I always thought the tubes where the bottleneck, but I am sure these transistors somehow make the sound edgy, harsh and sharp.
Question 1: Why are there 3 of these output transistors, 2 at the front(one for each channel) and 1 in the middle below the PSU? I don't belive this is a output transistor as it has 6 legs, and the other 2 in the front of the board has 3 legs each. Its the one with 6legs that has burn marks around the solders
Question 2: Where can I get replacement for these transistors?? Are there any newer models I can use which are just 'swap in' replacements???
Can you dig out the exact part number of these 3 transistors, or are there more? and I will check ebay for them.. maybe they are the problem. Remember, my brand new V3 was not sharp or edgy at all!
Kris
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Post by krisno on Feb 8, 2009 17:45:29 GMT
I had a look at the V3 board, and its almost the exactly same as V2... It even uses the same components(same output transistors, same PSU design, etc)... Why the heck does this V2 not sound the same as the new V3 I had last year? It really is sharper, and I used the same sources then... The V3 never occured to me as sharp other than a bit fatiguing in the long haul. Always had to fiddle with the volume somehow...
hmm, strange. Are pure tube amps also 'harsh'? Like for instance Woo Audio amps? Anyone tried them? Are they 100% mellow and soft , non - fatiguing?
K
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Post by dejanm on Feb 9, 2009 9:12:27 GMT
Dejanm These transistors, aren't they the most sound affecting component except for the tubes? In a tube amp I always thought the tubes where the bottleneck, but I am sure these transistors somehow make the sound edgy, harsh and sharp. It may be possible that transistors are the source of your problem. But you will find that out only if you replace them, which is not so easy as with tubes. These tubes in this unit though influence the sound very much. Every change in tubes will provide a different character to the reproduction ... Question 1: Why are there 3 of these output transistors, 2 at the front(one for each channel) and 1 in the middle below the PSU? I don't belive this is a output transistor as it has 6 legs, and the other 2 in the front of the board has 3 legs each. Its the one with 6legs that has burn marks around the solders Please take a look into a schematic of this unit. Then it will be clear to you ... The schematic of X-Can V2 you can see here: www.rock-grotto.co.uk/v2schematic.htmQuestion 2: Where can I get replacement for these transistors?? Are there any newer models I can use which are just 'swap in' replacements??? I found exact the same transistors on Farnell. They were rather cheap ... Can you dig out the exact part number of these 3 transistors, or are there more? and I will check ebay for them.. maybe they are the problem. Remember, my brand new V3 was not sharp or edgy at all! Kris Just go to Farnell and type in the numbers that you see on the transistors. That will be sufficiant. I couldn't find though one particulat type of transistor. That is the model which begins with 2SCxxxx (I forgot the exact number). That one seems much harder to find. The right question though would be whether there are replacements that sound better and that can be simply put in instead of existing ones ... |
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Post by dejanm on Feb 9, 2009 9:15:12 GMT
I had a look at the V3 board, and its almost the exactly same as V2... It even uses the same components(same output transistors, same PSU design, etc)... Why the heck does this V2 not sound the same as the new V3 I had last year? It really is sharper, and I used the same sources then... The V3 never occured to me as sharp other than a bit fatiguing in the long haul. Always had to fiddle with the volume somehow... hmm, strange. Are pure tube amps also 'harsh'? Like for instance Woo Audio amps? Anyone tried them? Are they 100% mellow and soft , non - fatiguing? K Why do not send it to Mike to take a look for you ? It would be very interesting to find out what the source of your problem is and Mike has a lot of experience with this unit + he has some units available for comparing ... So he is the right person to take a look into your problem. |
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Post by krisno on Feb 9, 2009 11:21:23 GMT
Thanks, sorry for the incredible stupid questions above. Yes, you are right, it is just output transistors for the other channel. But I thought the one in the back was a 6pin device, and the two in the front are 3 pins each?? It is only the one in the back which is 'burned'...
The V3 was much sweeter than this, no matter what source.. I think I have to replace these, atleast so I can get some calm in my soul. Could you give me direct link where I can find replacement for these.
Send to Mike? Well as mike pointed out 1) Mike and Mraarryo are older than me, and with age the upper hz in hearing disapears. I am younger, maybe I am more sensitive?
2) I dont live in UK. It is hell to ship things back and forward, so I really dont want to do it. I rather sell it instead I think. hehe. But I will swap out those transistors and get a heatsinks for them. I just need to find replacement..
Can you SandyK or Mike help on this issue?? Where to get transistor replacement??
(It must be transistor as the V3 was not sharp and it uses the same transistors and mostly same design)..
Btw: I must say, the 'mids' on the stock jan phillips was amazing, these russians are much more dynamic, good separation, and excellent non-microphonic, but the mids might be lacking somewhat compared to it.
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Vallejos
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Post by Vallejos on Feb 9, 2009 12:35:03 GMT
I can´t imagine age is the cause of what you describe. There must be som other explanation. Have you got the Pinkie you ordered from Mike? With a little luck, that will do the trick.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 9, 2009 12:57:13 GMT
I can´t imagine age is the cause of what you describe. There must be som other explanation. Have you got the Pinkie you ordered from Mike? With a little luck, that will do the trick. Agreed. I have listened to (literally) way over 100 of these amps and not once have I experienced the sound that Kris describes... in fact, he is the first person to have these problems (that I know of) Kris, you are now in a state of mind which is NOT good. You are of the belief that if you throw lots of parts / money at the amp it will makes things better....... WRONG! The cap / diode upgrade is by far the most beneficial and noticeable upgrade you can do to the v2.... a few years ago I experimented with the transistors and, to be totally honest, I couldn't detect any noticeable improvements to the SQ. No point just throwing a mixed bag of components at it and wanting to replace every component on the PCB.... that's like a blind man doing a jigsaw.... it may look good, but you won't "see" / hear any change. My advice? Sell the v2 and go for an amp that suits your ears better.... either that or seriously look at your front end..... I don't care what the spec sheet says, a "laptop" is NOT my idea of a front end (and never will be)........ no point whipping the amp into shape if you're feeding it crap.... it just won't respond. Mike. |
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Post by krisno on Feb 9, 2009 13:23:52 GMT
Hello Mike!
With age comes wisdom..
To be fair, the x-can V2 is just the tube amp I thought it would be. The sound is not laid back, it is close to the ears. It is very fun and musical, and on some tracks(fast jazz etc) I have never in my life heard anything better from headphones. It is fast and speedy + the tube magic. And your mods are extremly well thought out! Its brilliant..
BUT, it is sharp and fatiguing, painfull for the ears, which the V3 never was. I am using the same source!! It was even brighter before the mod and tube exchange.
I want this thing to work... I have orderd a new NOS dac and we will see how it works with that. It has a reclocking module on the USB also, so computer as source should not matter much. I used the V3 and computer as source also, no problem. Though it sounded best from analog out on a CD. I don't have enough CD's to buy a Wadia CD player / Meridian ...
We will see with the new DAC.... but still, the V2 does not let the colors of the music through as a solidstate for instance does.
It is frustrating... but tell me, a pure tube amp like the Woo audio amps, how does it sound compared to this hybrid?? Is there much difference?
(edgy and harsh sound is something I feel is more the norm with tube amps and AKG K 701 than anything else. The V3 and V8 had the same, but at a much lesser degree. On the V8 it wasnt noticable at all 'almost', but it was the most boring amp I ever heard...).
K
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Post by dejanm on Feb 9, 2009 14:07:21 GMT
krisno,
it is not possible to give you an answer on a question: how does tube amp sounds vs. hybrid or ss ... It is not possible because it depends on many things: design, implementation, rest of the system, components used, .... You can have a very "tuby" sound with transistors as you can have very sharp sound with the best tubes in the world (if implemented wrong).
Therefore, you have to stick with particular models of HiFi units and not so much with the technology. The technology in itself will not guarantee you much ....
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Vallejos
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Post by Vallejos on Feb 9, 2009 14:16:50 GMT
My advice? Sell the v2 and go for an amp that suits your ears better.... either that or seriously look at your front end..... I don't care what the spec sheet says, a "laptop" is NOT my idea of a front end (and never will be)........ I´ll second that. You probably will be better off with another amp. If the Pinkie does not make any change for you, that is. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2009 18:19:56 GMT
Kris PLEEEEEEEASE, put us all out of your misery and try a known GOOD QUALITY source  You must have a mate or colleague that will either lend you said source or invite yourself round to their place with your xcans & 'phones under your arm. Remember, your modded xcans may be telling you how bad your source is  Try it, nothing to lose! |
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Post by krisno on Feb 10, 2009 8:53:21 GMT
I allready had good source, and waiting for a new updated NOS dac now. It is a NOS dac which is praised highly on many forums, so nothing should be wrong with it. I also tried that specific DAC with the Yulong solidstate, and it was the best I have heard in my life.
Right now I am using analog out from computer..... remember neither my V3 nor V8 was sharp and edgy running on analog out. Why is this v2.... But yes maybe it is the sources which are crap.
What sources do you guys use??
K
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 10:23:47 GMT
Krisno
Fit the ferrite beads with the input caps short circuited, change R107/207 from 27Kohm to 47Kohm, change R114/214 from 33 ohms to 47 ohms. If it still sounds fatigueing, get a second opinion from a colleague for your own information, then forget about wasting your time and money with further modifications, and get rid of it ! You will never be happy with it.
SandyK
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Post by krisno on Feb 10, 2009 10:38:13 GMT
OK.... I by the way plugged my AKG directly into my analog out in my computer (which the X-canv2 is connected to), and it is not sharp at all. Maybe because of lack of amping?
I really want to come to the bottom of this. Remember, the russian tubes are more laid back than stock Jan Philips, and stock jan Philips really sounded good in V3 using the same source (!). How is that possible when V3 is mostly the same components. It's not like I have some extreme sensitive hearing which you guys don't have.
But other than the sharpness this V2 is really just what I hoped it would be. This is the tube amp I have crawed for in a long time. It is 'close' to the ears, not laid back. It is not boring either. But it has this sharpness.
If I google x-can v2, I see alot of the 'fatiguing' and 'edgy' comments. Strange.... SandyK, what amp you use these days??
That gain mod is good if you use proper source, will see how that new DAC works before doing the gain mod. I might not need it. Right now with computer as source I have volume at 12o clock.
K
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 10:53:53 GMT
Krisno My Headphone Amplifier is as described in Silicon Chip/Jaycar thread in the DIY section of this forum. It is based around a Silicon Chip magazine (Aus.)design, and the basic amplifier is sold in kit form by Jaycar Electronics (Australia) Perhaps you can try and win Mike's build when he reannounces the competition? SandyK rockgrotto.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=chitchat |
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Post by krisno on Feb 10, 2009 11:04:40 GMT
Right, so you do solidstate... It probably sounds good that thing. But well, at my place we do things a little bit more expensive. I am going to go to a friend this week to audition his new 5.1 setup. And what is it made of you ask? Meridian DSP 8500 front speakers + center speaker in same series Meridian DSP 7200 rear speakers Meridian controller, running RJ45 cable to each speaker. Each element in each speaker has its own amplifier, and each speakers also has its own built in meridian DAC. Making cable length between speaker element, amp and dac = zero. Perhaps worlds best speakers... The DSP 8500 has 6 elements, which equals one major meridian DAC + 6 seperate meridian amplifiers almost built into the elements. The veil price on the 7200 rearspeakers alone are $35 000. |
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robertkd
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Electronics Engineer from sunny Queensland
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Post by robertkd on Feb 10, 2009 11:26:16 GMT
Right, so you do solidstate... It probably sounds good that thing. But well, at my place we do things a little bit more expensive. I am going to go to a friend this week to audition his new 5.1 setup. And what is it made of you ask? Meridian DSP 8500 front speakers + center speaker in same series Meridian DSP 7200 rear speakers Meridian controller, running RJ45 cable to each speaker. Each element in each speaker has its own amplifier, and each speakers also has its own built in meridian DAC. Making cable length between speaker element, amp and dac = zero. Perhaps worlds best speakers... The DSP 8500 has 6 elements, which equals one major meridian DAC + 6 seperate meridian amplifiers almost built into the elements. The veil price on the 7200 rearspeakers alone are $35 000. you know thats all fine and good, but if that is where your at then why are you wanking yourself here  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 11:32:37 GMT
Krisno
Just because audio gear costs a lot of money means very little.
A friend of mine has a >100W per channel amplifier using my front end modifications, that has a far better soundstage and SQ than his friend's big Krell Amplifier, and AU$50,000 B&W speakers.
As for DACs, our highly modified MF X-DAC V3s and amplification chain are capable of quite good surround sound from just 2 front speakers. Not all enveloping surround sound, but very good on decent material. Can your friend get a holographic presentation from just his 2 front speakers ? Anyway, if he wants to spend obscene amounts of money on Audio gear that's his perogative. I remain unimpressed.
SandyK
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Post by krisno on Feb 10, 2009 12:07:00 GMT
My new DAC came at the door just now. The three screws in the middle pulls down 8x TDA1543 chips faced against the chassis for cooling. The metal box on the right side is the USB 'reclocker'. Have a look at the length of the signalpath, from the round philips tantalums to the RCA plugs. Its like 2cm ..... anyone seen anything shorter, ever? ;D The V2 still is sharp.... but will burn in this DAC for a while and see. This DAC with solidstate and AKG is some of the best I heard in my life.  |
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robertkd
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Post by robertkd on Feb 10, 2009 12:25:48 GMT
My new DAC came at the door just now. The three screws in the middle pulls down 8x TDA1543 chips faced against the chassis for cooling. The metal box on the right side is the USB 'reclocker'. Have a look at the length of the signalpath, from the round philips tantalums to the RCA plugs. Its like 2cm ..... anyone seen anything shorter, ever? ;D The V2 still is sharp.... but will burn in this DAC for a while and see. This DAC with solidstate and AKG is some of the best I heard in my life. So it's such a piss poor design it has to have tantalum's (any caps) in series with the output, I wonder at the point of this we all have access to ebay and such,either it works for you with NOS DAC or you want more clarity in the top end with oversampling. Short path it's audio get over it get a DAC that works and a amp that works for you |
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robertkd
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Electronics Engineer from sunny Queensland
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Post by robertkd on Feb 10, 2009 12:41:40 GMT
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Feb 10, 2009 12:51:33 GMT
"using matched Philips Silver Crown TDA1543 chipset x 8" Using matched Silver Crown TDA1543's Matched by young blonde virgin's on the top of Mt Olympus too.... |
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robertkd
Been here a while!
Electronics Engineer from sunny Queensland
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Post by robertkd on Feb 10, 2009 12:57:38 GMT
maybe but re-clock?? Robert  [/quote] "using matched Philips Silver Crown TDA1543 chipset x 8" Using matched Silver Crown TDA1543's Matched by young blonde virgin's on the top of Mt Olympus too.... [/quote] I'm shocked they all had 8 pins, I'm sure of it , |
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