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Post by krisno on Jan 27, 2008 12:58:14 GMT
Hi
Do I need a special electrostatic headphone AMP to run the Stax SR-007Mk2 electrostatic earspeaker? Or will the X-Can V3 suffice you think?
Are these electrostatic headphones sounding as good as Martin Logan Electrostatic main speakers? Is it like the same type of sound? I heard one time Martin Logan Oddesy, and its the best I have ever heard.....
or are they only good on jazz, but well, do I need a electrostatic amp or not?
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Jan 27, 2008 16:12:33 GMT
No, you need a special amp to run Stax electrostatic earspeakers. I'd try to hear them if I were you first before spending your hard earned.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2008 22:11:41 GMT
I agree with Nigel. The majority of Stax headphones require a polarising voltage of around 500VDC, so their drivers use high voltage electronics. In the case of the types using a transformer, this voltage is derived from a stepped up voltage derived from the actual signal. Note also that many (all?) Stax headphones response may be up to a couple of dB down below 150HZ.They do however make for exquisite detail, and add a seductiveness to many female voices. I missed that low end extension, so I traded for a pair of ATH W1000. I have no personal experience of the model mentioned, so can offer no further comment.
SandyK
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insanitybeard
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Post by insanitybeard on Jan 28, 2008 1:00:37 GMT
As Nigel said, the current Stax models have a 5 pin connector which requires a dedicated amp/energizer unit to power them- I think Stax are working with 580v bias at the moment...... Certainly not something you could rig to work off of any "normal" headphone amp, if for no other reason than the connectors are completely different!
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Post by dc on Jan 28, 2008 12:49:21 GMT
the SR-007MK2 needs lots of power
not the best introductory phone either...
but to answer the question, you will need a dedicated stax amp it won't run off your x-cans v3
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rickcr42
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Post by rickcr42 on Jan 28, 2008 16:59:10 GMT
the SR-007MK2 needs lots of power not the best introductory phone either... but to answer the question, you will need a dedicated stax amp it won't run off your x-cans v3 Check the Headwize Project Library for several DIY amp articles to give you an idea of what is required for E-Stat Can drive.Years ago Ibuilt a version of the "Gilmore All Triode Amp" in the cap coupled version and it served me well for many years (did make some of my own changes though.Mainly power supply and output tube loading at some point i may build this (but with EL34 tubes).just looks "right" www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/hdgsta.htmanother that looks interesting is this puppy www.audiodesignguide.com/my/stax_amp2.htmla good background article here : www.headwize.com/projects/showfile.php?file=radford1_prj.htmshows how to whip up an "energizer" which is a matching transformer with high voltqge bias supply (check Sowter for trafos ) which allows hooking up to a power amp Other candidates are : www.dddac.de/tp08.htmdo the research man then make a decision on how/where you want to proceed to Rickmonster Out
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Post by pincop on Feb 4, 2008 18:33:00 GMT
Has anyone ever measured the frequency response of the Stax SR007/SRM007 T II system? To me it sounds somewhat dull, as if a few db were missing in the presence/brilliance range
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rowuk
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Post by rowuk on Feb 4, 2008 19:53:59 GMT
I have never heard of anyone accusing the stax of being dull. Pincop, what do you normally listen to, what source and amplification. Could serve as a warning for the rest of us.
The stax are very much like the martin logans, detail to the extreme without being harsh, need great amplification, suitable for all types of music, but the differences are greatest when listening to fine acoustic instruments.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2008 20:37:06 GMT
pincop As Rowuk says. Most models are only let down by being around 2dB less sensitive below about 150HZ, so the bottom end may be felt to be slightly lacking. Dull ? Never! "detail to the extreme without being harsh" - Agreed. SandyK
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insanitybeard
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Post by insanitybeard on Feb 4, 2008 23:17:47 GMT
I may still get a Stax setup one day.... I only heard their entry level model, and certainly the quality of sound was fantastic, without any harshness as Rowuk and SandyK have also said. The only thing that stopped me was the lesser musical impact (in my opinion) relative to the dynamic headphones.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Feb 4, 2008 23:20:29 GMT
You mean they sounded bloody boring?
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insanitybeard
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Post by insanitybeard on Feb 4, 2008 23:25:31 GMT
I wouldn't put it that way for I think that would be doing them a grave injustice. It depends on what you want from your music. If you wanted detail and resolution without any harshness they would be top choice. For me, I wanted more dynamics and bass impact as I listen mainly to rock/electronic music, but those concerns are not relevent with all types of music. In some quarters the electrostatics would be king.
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Post by dc on Feb 4, 2008 23:57:48 GMT
Haven't tried the SR-007/Omega 2 but if they're not properly amped will sound a bit hopeless (much like any hard to drive dynamic phone as well)
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Post by pincop on Feb 5, 2008 17:56:14 GMT
Thanks everybody for your comments. I agree the Stax 007 headphone with its tube amp 007 T II is a very smooth sounding couple -- as it should, at the price.
My comparison headphone is a new Koss ESP 950 with its own transistor amp, an old design but still very valid. I built a passive filter network to equalize the Koss' frequency response in such a way that it comes as close as possible (for me) to the response of the Stax.
In this way the Koss loses its character of gently rising response through the midrange to the treble. In simple words: I took the brightness out of the Koss' response.
In addition to the Koss I am running a fully digital system with ribbon based custom speakers, digitally equalized.
After getting both the speakers and the Koss to resemble the Stax' amplitude response I still noticed the Stax' strange weakness in the brilliance region between, say, 2 and 4 kHz. I don't think this results from the (direct coupled) tube amp. Rather, I suspect that the asymmetric cavities in the rubber earpads act as a Helmholtz resonator swallowing certain frequencies.
In practice this is no real problem for me because I can digitally equalize the Stax, adding the missing dbs in the brilliance region. I can also add the missing dbs in the bass response.
I could, of course, measure the response of the Stax with a calibrated mic sandwiched between the two cups. However, that opens a can of worms called artificial head, a contraption I am not familiar with.
That is why I asked if anyone had already taken these measurements.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2008 20:07:40 GMT
pincop I don't like using equalisation, however,I used the manufacturers frequency response graph to do a resonable equalisation using Sound Forge 9, then burned a copy of our usual testdisc using this equalisation. The resulting SQ was very good indeed,when listened to via a Stax transformer and a very high quality Class A amplifier, but as I said, I don't like using equalisation (digital or otherwise) so it was just a one off. SandyK
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rowuk
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Post by rowuk on Feb 6, 2008 15:45:27 GMT
I think equalization is legitimate. There is no formula for matching headphone geometry to our god-given unique head/ear shapes. That means you try many headphones and amps if you don't get lucky OR you pick one of the standard "greats" and match it to your listening preferences. Equalizing the bass is very easy: thicker ear cushions move the can further away from the ear drum, reducing the bass. Warming the cushions up (hot water bottle) and applying compression make the cushions thinner, move the cans closer to the head and can increase the bass. Preferences in the midrange or treble often only need a dB or 2 EQ to cure any problem. That causes less sonic problems than putting up with the original anomoly. I generally listen to my AKG701s (with compressed ear pads) without EQ. There are some recordings however that really come alive with some minor tweaking! It would be so easy to offer "minor" correction in most headphone amplifiers. The purists have trouble with "tone controls" however intelligently laid out. There were many favourable comments on the Slee Voyager bass boost though...........................
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Post by pincop on Feb 6, 2008 16:53:32 GMT
SandyK,
where did you find " the manufacturers frequency response graph?" I checked out both the Stax company website and the 007 II manuals -- no graph. Also, I don't remember having seen any graph on Stereophile's test articles.
I must say, I find the Stax website regrettably short on technical info, considering the sophisticated and expensive products they market.
Pincop
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Post by pincop on Feb 6, 2008 18:31:22 GMT
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Post by pincop on Feb 6, 2008 19:22:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2008 21:24:44 GMT
I have located a small amount of STAX info. Any member interested, send me an email and I will reply with a couple of small attachments SandyK alexkethel@optusnet.com.au
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Post by dc on Feb 7, 2008 0:40:50 GMT
What kind of info Alex?
I tell ya... I love my Stax
If I come into money, it'll be one of the first things I buy
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2008 1:32:55 GMT
dc email sent with 2 response graphs,DIY STAX transformer schematic, and 1 schematic Alex
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Post by dc on Feb 7, 2008 4:34:01 GMT
cool, I have that stax amp!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2008 10:33:27 GMT
STAX Frequency Response. (Double click for larger image)
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Post by pincop on Feb 7, 2008 15:51:00 GMT
Thank you, especially SandyK, for your comments and the material. The situation is pretty clear to me now. Next thing: I'll ask the distributor to get a frequency response graph for the Omega 007 II from Stax. Once I have it (I am not very optimistic) I'll put it on this forum.
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