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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 28, 2007 15:50:10 GMT
www.gspaudio.co.uk/Looks fantastic, a lot of goodies crammed under the bonnet And being able to charge her from your car's cigarette lighter is very handy indeed!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 28, 2007 23:06:41 GMT
It looks awesome! Great work! A couple of questions: Not sure if it will look "exactly" like that in production hopefully Graham will chip in with a few more details. I don't think it will.... no mention of a DAC from GSP Yes, I will Miguel. No problems at all. I'd love to organise a sampler that could go around the globe to trusted Grotto / head-fiers but will have to ask Graham if he would be up for that first. I am on Graham's official distributor list so it would be a good idea for me to have a good old session with it too to see exactly what it does and how it performs, no way will I promote anything unless it sounds exceptional another one for Graham to answer.... the above details are all I have seen also Miguel.... It will possibly look a bit different when it goes into production, I seriously hope that knob doesn't make it onto the production model and is just on there as a functional "prototype" knob... looks like a liquorice allsort tacked onto the front panel Graham does mention a "black and silver case" so I assume what we see in the prototype will not be what we see in the production model..... the engine looks extremely promising more like an all out SOLO shoehorned into a smaller enclosure..... if so, this will be one HELL of a portable amp, good quality components too those ALPS pots are extremely good. How will we change the battery Graham? A hatch or does it involve unscrewing the enclosure each time? Will the Voyager have any fancy logos on it? I just love the dove on the Revelation I'd love to see that on all of your products and what better than the Voyager..... after all the dove does a lot of flying about so can be classed as a true voyager.... even a "messenger" that delivers superb sonics to your ears
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Post by gns on Apr 29, 2007 4:48:46 GMT
Hi Mike and Miguel, Err, there isn't a charger in it.... But it can run off the car cigarette lighter, or any DC source between 12 and 24 volts - so that includes HGV power!!! Sorry I couldn't squeeze a DAC in this time around, but I'm working on it for a "stretch" version - points taken onboard. I put the USB socket on so it could receive its power from a PC or notebook while being connected conventionally to the soundcard or you can just use your computer's power while listening from any source - anything to conserve the battery. Reason for it not being rechargeable: 1] Industry standard 3.3volts doesn't produce enough thunder in yer ears. 2] Three batteries fit but can't obtain a holder - but still a bit bereft of the thunder you need. 3] 4 batteries don't fit at all, or I'd have to find a different case, but the Hammond is the best I could find. 4] 9 volt battery delivers the thunder, but 9 volt rechargeables only last 6 hours, whereas 9 volt throw-aways last 50 hours! The contour switch is just above the "V" in "Voyager Prototype Unveiled" - it's an Alps slide switch. For Mike, samplers are no problem! You're trusted mate! As for the sound: 1] I avoided surface mount because I couldn't get the same sonically good components in SMT. The bits you can see are those I use in the rest of my product range because they sound really great. It's a pain trying to cram them in though - the PCB layout was real fun... 2] The contour switch was found necessary when using the cheapo PX200's (I recommend these) - I tried them with a wide range of sounds: Jethro Tull's "Living in the Past" (original version), Rush, Led Zep 4, Bonzo Dog, etc, etc - all on MP3 (sorry - no opera or classics because I borrowed the MP3 being an old crumbly ). The contour switch pulls in a complete Baxandall FIXED bass and treble control - no half measures. 3] To me in flat position using my usual monitor headphones it sounds just like a Solo 2004. Fully agree on knob - placing an order as you suggested Mike Just using the grey Hammond as it's easier to measure with the old vernier gauge and mark-up with pencil. The utility looking insert in the case will be filled with an aluminium anodized silver trim with artwork by the same guy who did the Revelation (above). Case will be the black version. Yup, the engine is the Solo! Except I got the op-amp to drive direct (even into 8 Ohms - but 16 Ohms or above is better) as the output transistors won't fit. The Analog data sheet shows something similar, but they don't use the Solo current drive trick, so the Voyager doesn't need an impedance switch. The battery compartment is the easy open Hammond type, and the battery clip is a good solid one, not the bendy ones made of cardboard and PVC. I must get Ian (our Graphics subby) to get that dove on the thing too!
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Post by seroxatmad on May 1, 2007 18:59:39 GMT
Hi all
Looks very good. Can i ask what make the blue caps are?
john
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 1, 2007 19:07:31 GMT
Hi all Looks very good. Can i ask what make the blue caps are? john Hi John, They are definitely Panasonics.
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Post by peterpants on May 6, 2007 12:56:22 GMT
Some amp designers are coming out with some eye-candy enclosures for their amps rather than the usual (UGLI) amp-in-a-box. If the enclosure for the Voyager is designed like the XO ( much like a hip flask ), the aerodynamics, and looks, and feel, of the amp, both sonically, and aesthetically, would send the headphone community to the moon, and back! On the other hand, if it is marketed within a ho-hum rectangular case, the reception of the headphone world would be less than astronomical. Maybe? Just my twopence.
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Post by peterpants on May 8, 2007 12:42:19 GMT
Function, *AND* form, Miguel, are two of the many facets of the beautiful. YKMV.
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 8, 2007 17:51:15 GMT
I tend to agree that portable should have a bit of style as people wander about in public with portable gear and generally like to have something stylish looking strapped onto their person. I personally don't give a shit what Tom Smith sitting next to me on a train thinks of either my dress sense or the electronics hanging out of my pockets so "looks" don't mean a thing to me as long as the sound quality is top notch then it's good enough for me. Unfortunately most people are not like me and prefer a bit of form and function, sometimes they'd rather form over function just to be seen to look "trendy" Millions of people wandering about with the same mobile phone thinking they're "unique" and "individual" because they've personalised the damned thing with a different ring tone...... nah, forget "style" way too many people wandering about thinking they have style yet when you look at them all they're nothing more than sheep all drinking out of the same water trough (even though they're drinking out of personalised plastic bottles) True style and true individuality means being different from the pack.... who gives a flying fig what it looks like as long as it trounces all the other portable amps out there sonically? Remember the amp you see above is only a prototype and will not be shipping with that know and I think Graham has a surprise up his sleeve with regard to the screen printing. Lokks like the kind of amp you could drop out of a ten storey window and it would still work..... I like it
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Post by peterpants on May 8, 2007 22:05:57 GMT
True. But, as a (random) example, let's take a look at the AE-1, and AE-2.
As amps they function well, but in terms of aesthetics how many people have gasped, and pissed, when they saw it.
How many have passed on it to get more appealing amps. The eye, as well as the ear, has it, lad.
Successful, innovative, present day headphone amp designers have incorporated aesthetics into their designs. Hint.
Hint. Tactile, and eye appeal ultimately translates into more sales from an appreciative market.
While they may be sonic marvels, bricks and chunky amps are, well, bricks, and chunky amp-in-a-box. Go figure.
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 8, 2007 23:00:30 GMT
Successful, innovative, present day headphone amp designers have incorporated aesthetics into their designs. Hint. You mean like Graham Slee? One of the first to come up with an "original" design before the likes of "Head-Fi" was even an idea. Don't "hint" Sonny Jim and please don't tell me about "successful, innovative, present day designers" there aren't any..... you may think everything that glitters is gold but it isn't. As soon as you realise that you'll appreciate that Graham's designs are actually "designed" by a professional (ie: Graham Slee) and major on functionality and sonics..... He knows what he is doing having been in the business for the best part of his life. If you want gadgets designed by 24 year old arseholes intended for use by 16 year old arseholes then go and buy them, you've got that choice.... if you're looking for "quality" (as soon as the acne starts to disappear from your face you may have an idea what quality means) then Graham Slee is your man. First time in a long time (since leaving Head-Fi) I've felt this way but you asked for it so here goes...... Hint. Go jump off a cliff with all your blowmoulded MP3 / "innovative" mass produced JUNK and please don't bounce back up asshole.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2007 23:16:21 GMT
Mass market junk, designed for people with little fingers , and definitely not HI-FI. These days they seem to be able to call anything HI-FI and the average jow blow doesn't know any better. They can also shove their PMPOs where the sun doesn't shine!
Well oil beef hooked! SUGDEN, that's a very respected TRUE HI-FI name that this old fossil remembers. SandyK
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Post by peterpants on May 8, 2007 23:46:06 GMT
We will see.
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Post by gover1 on May 9, 2007 0:21:38 GMT
good point about being to chuck out of a window, if i shell out the cash on one of these i want it a) to sound very good with a range of different cans b) be industructible if it going to be in my pocket, all sorts of things go on in there, and i would want it to survive. if its pretty that doesnt bother me either way except that, in the portable world things that start off bland tend to stay that way, things that start off pretty get scratched to pieces in my experience. i know to many people scared to use their ipod because of possibility of scratching the back. one of my personal favorites is when people look at my 70's and 80's kef refrence speakers as if there ready for the skip, untill i start playing music that is , then they always change there mind. graham slee makes brilliant kit (or at least what i have been lucky enough to listen to has been) and there should be no reason to think that this should not be the same, even if it came in a moulded plastic box like the old gram amp of his did, well id still be happy if it sounded good
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Post by peterpants on May 9, 2007 4:51:03 GMT
MIke, old chap, dont roll over in your grave over it. It was merely a suggestion. Unlike you, the prototype of a memorable portable (IMHO) amp should be *drop dead* georgeous, as well as sounding celestial. Rest your weary bones.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2007 6:15:34 GMT
You find a "drop dead" gorgeous , as well as sounding "celestial"(AND not just to YOUR ears) ,portable battery operated portable amplifier that also has so many power supply options, and I am sure Mike would be happy to review it. The reason that design's like Graham's aren't as diminutive as some of those shiny little mass produced things, are that he has decided to stick with high quality components, in some cases forgoing the use of some surface mount devices AND LSI I.C.s with their inferior performance and limited drive capacity.Discerning listeners these days simply won't put up with the limited dynamics and much higher distortion that those designs give. Most members of this forum prefer audio quality over glitz, although an aesthetically appealing design as well, is a bonus. BTW, I am sure Graham's design would also more than do justice to much higher quality sources such as CD Walkmans . If you ONLY listen to Mega Poop 3, then it probably doesn't matter much what amplifier you use,although I am willing to bet that even MP3 , the scourge of the once proud FM stereo radio stations, will sound a little less like a pale,squished up version of a CD through Graham's amplifier. SandyK
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dexdexter
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Dynasty panty sniffer par excellence
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Post by dexdexter on May 21, 2007 12:14:20 GMT
Just stumbled upon this thread, and I must say I'm well-impressed. Looks like Graham's done a proper job and the innards appear packed with tastiness. While the exterior won't set the design world alight, it's what's under the bonnet that counts. I don't look to my CanAmp for aesthetic sculpture, so if this does for portables what the Heed does on the desktop, I'll certainly consider it when I'm looking to upgrade from my Go-Vibe. Hopefully this will start to attract some attention over on the Goat!
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 21, 2007 12:21:36 GMT
Just stumbled upon this thread, and I must say I'm well-impressed. Looks like Graham's done a proper job and the innards appear packed with tastiness. While the exterior won't set the design world alight, it's what's under the bonnet that counts. I don't look to my CanAmp for aesthetic sculpture, so if this does for portables what the Heed does on the desktop, I'll certainly consider it when I'm looking to upgrade from my Go-Vibe. Hopefully this will start to attract some attention over on the Goat! I think you may be pleasantly surprised with the exterior when the Voyager is launched dex remember, what you see above is a "prototype" amp..... not the actual finished item Hopefully it will receive some attention on the goat, Graham deserves serious recognition being one of the most original and accomplished designers out there with a refreshingly honest "no bullshit" approach to things.... he majors on experience and professional design and not buzzwords.... I expect great things from the Voyager.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 10, 2007 10:29:03 GMT
It shouldn't be too long in coming now hopefully, I can't wait and am really looking forward to "this" one! A portable that sounds like the Solo?? Bring it on baby this is gonna rock
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2007 12:01:56 GMT
Mike Will Graham be giving you a technical "overview" of his design? It would be very interesting to know his design philosophy.
SandyK
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Post by gns on Jun 10, 2007 20:55:15 GMT
Wondered if somebody would ask ;D
The Technical Over View Bit
1] To stuff as much of a Solo into an "ugly" Hammond box as possible. See styling later on.
2] To deny all involvement with Sugden Audio, and you guys will get me shot - the old man already threatened me with legal action if I or any of my representatives says another word on the subject (by the way, the old man is not called Sugden, only the company)
3] To make the Voyager sound just as good as the Solo using high performance sources, and to me that means my vinyl via a Len Gregory Music Maker cartridge on a Hadcock arm (old George died recently by the way) with vinyl being spun by my museum piece tatty old Thorens TD125 turntable. The phono preamp I'm using is my Reflex, and that goes straight into the Voyager, and I'm listening to it now - starting to feel confident that it is very hard to tell the difference. I always use HD250's for tests like these, because they're a studio headphone.
4] To make the Voyager fun to use with as many other sources as possible. That's analogue sources from digital or analogue and not via an inbuilt DAC. It's great fun listening to Internet radio stations like 1Club.FM who somehow manage to broadcast most genres with minimal digital bandwidth and it still sounds awesome (awesome being the in-word I'm told...). I must admit I haven't tested it with an MP3 player, but I have tested it with an MP3 Walkman using both MP3 compressed files put on CD, as well as commercial CDs. It shows up just how distorted BBC digital radio is - they ought to ask how 1Club.FM do it. I also think it works pretty good with my no-name sound card playing my CDs on a CDROM which only says "32X max" on it. In other words, it doesn't have to rely on specialist gear for fun! It may not extract the last ounce of detail from these sources, but nothing can put back what isn't there to start with. But it is fun, or I don't think I'd have the heart to bother.
5] Bass: Boom? NO! Having listened to a number of bands with good sound systems live, bass is not hitting a cardboard box with a baseball bat, like some kids believe it is. Bass should sound like it's there as well as being felt - yes, felt, with headphones! But not overpowering.
6] Treble and mid: Most of the highs are actually mids. Treble in musical terms is midrange. Treble in Hi-Fi terms is the harmonics of musical treble. I can bend the treble as much as you like, but I don't. Maximum bandwidth is what the Voyager will give. Flat is what it will measure, but flat is not how it will sound.
7] Tone control: I would not use tone controls normally, but where there is an insurmountable problem I will. The insurmountable problem is cheap street wear cans. But as you'll look un-cool walking around with a pair of HD650's on your head, street wear cans therefore have to sound at least a close second to your favourite hifi cans. The only way of doing that is to apply some bass and treble boost, but how much and at what frequencies? Street wear cans differ widely, but I found they all sounded better using an approximation of the Fletcher-Munson curves. These curves plot the amount of boost required to make up for hearing losses at different frequencies, and I think Hi-Fi headphones have a bit of this tuning built-in. I've therefore included a switch to flick between flat and Fletcher-Munson correction.
8] Power supplies: Looks like we're stuck with switched mode from now on. The G8 group on climate change is not asking manufacturers to look at alternative means of power, but telling us to do so! Obviously it's battery for the road, but it will take 5V from a laptop, whether you're on a train, plane or sat at your desk. A voltage doubler chip takes the voltage high enough for clip-free performance. The 9V battery has a life expectancy of 50 hours, on all the time, but we haven't flattened one yet because there are other power options to switch to. There's an obligatory DC inlet that will give the performance I was looking for from a switched mode power supply, and although the standard model comes without one, we'll offer the option of "power supply included" later on. With a suitable adapter, it can take car battery power via the ciggy lighter, or even HGV power as the input range is 12 to 24V DC.
9] Component choices: Well, I thought, it's a bit daft trying to hand build with surface mount, plus I have no experience of which surface mount components achieve what. So, I thought I'd better squeeze in conventional big wire ended components. Being old enough to remember pocket transistor radios from the 60's - they managed it! OK, you can't get anywhere the same packing density, but what are we trying to achieve? An MP3 player? A Global Positioning Unit? Or an Analog headphone amp? You only really need surface mount if you're trying to squeeze in a DAC, but we aren't (or if you can't design PCBs, but that was my job for a good part of 11 years...), so let's do the best we can and make a truly stunning portable amp. And I think I have. The amp is AD823 based just like the Solo, and it uses the Solo's simple but effective auto-impedance-adjust to make the chip drive the cans! Instead of skimping, the electrolytics are the Panasonic audio types we use in our Gram Amps - they're small enough to fit and sound incredibly good for electrolytics. Tone EQ capacitors are again from Panasonic - ECQBs. Resistors are Welwyn TI 1% metal film. The volume pot is the Alps "mini-velvet" with real aluminium castings and a solid aluminium shaft. I'll not go into every detail - I think I covered most bases.
10] Bullet proof: I still have to climb on the roof of the workshop to drop it onto the concrete floor below, but it has suffered quite a few knocks while playing without a hiccup or glitch being heard. The PCB is FR4 glass fibre, 1.6 mm thick.
11] Styling: If you like the Headphonia gear, you should like the Voyager. But where there is a blank top to the Headphonia, ours will feature an anodized aluminium panel designed by a graphic artist.
12] How does it sound?: You'll find out from others, especially Miguel to whom I've promised the first one on the planet outside our workshop. All I hope is he hears what we have. Using my closed back cans it is quite capable of throwing a sound stage (I think somebody asked what a sound stage is on another thread?). A sound stage is not just about getting the sound to part company with the transducers, it is about unsticking the various instruments from the "substrate" so they appear as separate from one another and are stable occupying their part of the stage (even though that stage may be studio generated by mixing, phasing and panning). It's a layering that can be very 3D and can also give a sense of space - and reality due to reverberations, which again can be natural or studio generated. So far with the pre-production unit I'm listening to as I type, it is doing that, and some of my vinyl has seen better days and could have been recorded better.
I think it is time to get the thing in production and let the expert ears of this forum and head-fi have their say.
Radio silence from me for a while as I do just that.
BFN!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 10, 2007 21:27:05 GMT
Sorry Graham, I didn't realise I'd posted that...... deleted now..... no trace of the reference so rest easy. I really am sorry, I shouldn't have let it slip out
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 10, 2007 22:04:04 GMT
Awesome is a trendy word? Then let me say what I have just read is UBER AWESOME. I've got goose pimples coming up on the back of my head Graham and that's just after reading your post! I know what the Solo sounds like and I know just how much of your life (all of it) you dedicate to achieving musical perfection, I know we've been friends for many years but I am still humbled that you should choose to be so open with your design philosophy here. A what Hi-Fi "five star" manufacturer in many categories..... the goose pimples are coming to the surface again.... I know the amount of work you've put into the voyager and can honestly say I haven't been so excited about a product launch for many years.... this is a pinnacle I've wanted to experience for a long time and, knowing you Graham, the Voyager will be a revelation Lucky old mrarroyo getting first dibs on Voyager 001 Hopefully voyager 001 will land at many head-Fi / Grotto meets and the word will eventually get out that Graham knows his onions big time
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2007 23:02:37 GMT
Graham Thanks for that. Very interesting . Were you able to find some way to help protect some dickheads (woops, I should have said lesser informed people) from slowly destroying their hearing due to excessive SPLs? Does your auto circuitry help with that? SandyK
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Post by gns on Jun 11, 2007 1:00:24 GMT
Oh bugger! You're getting me nervous now - such a massive build-up - I'd better make sure I get it right eh? It means you can't seriously over-drive the cans, and the maximum output is about 7dB less than the Solo 2007. Max SPL will be about 100dB with average phones, maybe a bit more into street phones - I'd guess at 110dB max before you're into serious clipping. The measured spec so far:- Test gear load = 600 Ohms (like it was for the Solo spec - it adjusts to the load so spec should be relative for all loads) - Max O/P: +8.5dBV
- O/P noise ref +2.5dBV out: -78dB CCIR Q-peak, 20Hz-20kHz
- Frequency response ref +2.5dBV out: 12Hz (-1.5dB) to 120kHz (-3dB)
- Channel balance ref -10dBV out: 0.5dB
- L-R Crosstalk at 1kHz: -68dB
- THD+N (distortion): 80Hz 0.06%; 1kHz 0.03%, 5.6kHz 0.0325%, 16kHz 0.035%
Forgot to do the tone switch response! I'll post that tomorrow, er later today...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 1:49:25 GMT
I look forward to reading Mike's positive review.
SandyK
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