ronzo56
Been here a while!
All you need is love. But money helps too.
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Post by ronzo56 on Mar 2, 2013 20:47:03 GMT
Ian, have you tried them with the AUNE T1? Would be interesting to know how they sound with a valve in the circuit I've ordered another pair of T50RP.... the ones from Juno records kinda put me off them but now I know that intermittent connection is a known fault it will be easy to remedy it..... If they are as good as some people reckon then a dodgy connector is not worth worrying about as it is easily fixed. Just a bit of history........ Frans originally contacted me by e-mail (a few years ago) after seeing the Superlux thread here.... he told me about his Superlux filter and how they were the best headphones he had heard etc..... I told him to post on the forum but he was a bit shy..... he eventually came on the forum and the rest is history These are a big step up (Money wise) from the Superlux but if they are true giant killers (Giantly PRICED headphones that is!)then the £130 asking price is still pretty low...... I would love to tone down my headphone stash and replace them with a "one size fits all" headphone.... if a modded TR50 can really be everything to everybody (a jack of all trades) then count me in...... I'll give it a go Mike. I've only heard my slightly modded (940 pads and closed vents) with both the V2 and the SR 2. To my ears the T50 seems to prefer the V2. Perhaps they like a little more juice. With my SS amp they seemed a little drier and I wasn't as involved with the music. It could be I'm biased because I do like to have tubes somewhere in the signal path, although with the tubes the T50's high end seems a little more rolled off, but not enough to bother me. I think you will find these a fun pair of cans Mike. They take well mods and you get to experiment without spending too much money. And there is just something about the ortho sound, fast and smooth and can handle a little higher volumes when you want to rock out. Cheers, Ron, trying to get work done, but hell it's Saturday. Why I'm I here? I'm not even getting paid.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 2, 2013 20:53:31 GMT
Ian, have you tried them with the AUNE T1? Would be interesting to know how they sound with a valve in the circuit I've ordered another pair of T50RP.... the ones from Juno records kinda put me off them but now I know that intermittent connection is a known fault it will be easy to remedy it..... If they are as good as some people reckon then a dodgy connector is not worth worrying about as it is easily fixed. Just a bit of history........ Frans originally contacted me by e-mail (a few years ago) after seeing the Superlux thread here.... he told me about his Superlux filter and how they were the best headphones he had heard etc..... I told him to post on the forum but he was a bit shy..... he eventually came on the forum and the rest is history These are a big step up (Money wise) from the Superlux but if they are true giant killers (Giantly PRICED headphones that is!)then the £130 asking price is still pretty low...... I would love to tone down my headphone stash and replace them with a "one size fits all" headphone.... if a modded TR50 can really be everything to everybody (a jack of all trades) then count me in...... I'll give it a go Mike. Mike, for someone like you, these would be a doddle to mod. I would also recommend making that filter tbh. It truly lights them up. Also, knowing your preference for volumes, these work REALLY well at higher volume. Because they're flat, they give the impression of fading away a bit quicker than other headphones because of the Flescher curve response. You know how headphones 'snap' into focus with regards to the bass? These aren't so fussy, but they go loud very comfortably with no stinging treble. I'd say that the T1 warms them a tad. Not a lot. As you know, I really like the S2 and is my favourite with them tbh. There's enough warmth there with a dash of cold water to let detail through. However, as you also know, the T1 isn't far off and it does have enough bottle to drive them. In fact, just change the pads and make the filter and you'll get a very close comparison to what I have without even opening them up. The filter corrects the dip that the pads emphasise and they bring in a bit more bass. However, you don't get 'more' bass. You just get it when it's there. Thin recordings are thin!! This is the problem with 'flat'. If it ain't there, the headphone won't manufacture it like so many do. Shpongle is spine tingling!! (I LOVE that band) I still use the HD681 with passive filter. That was a real bargain. I just wish we could find a cheaper supplier of the T50/T40. USA prices are way down. I have an unmodded T50 with just 940 pads but they improve massively on the filter as well. More of a bass hump, but it's not big. The filter gets the bass like a pancake virtually down to 10. Without filter, they sound dark. (Like the orthos you made me, Mike) There's a clarity in these that you don't often hear in £130 headphones and as I said earlier, I'm now considering a clear out because I have too many headphones. These just seem 'natural' and I don't feel the need to keep changing the bloody things for other genres of music. I listen to such a wide range of music, I've always gone along with the idea of changing to suit the genre. Now, I'm not certain that this is the best way to go. If you get one flat as possible, then you're getting what was mixed with not too much 'added' and I have to say, these are producing what's going in pretty well. They make the DT150 sound quite awful. Guys at work put a measuring rig on my T40 this morning and even their eyes were popping out!! There may be a shortage soon. They'll all be buying one!!! It is indeed, very flat as Frans had measured with his home built rig. It's a different sound to many headphones. However, to me it's very natural. With no hair Mike, the band might need padding. The plug issue is pretty universal. Just clean the jack and then swivel in the socket. Both of mine are clean as whistles now and no crackle. The other advantage of course is that you can swap the lead to a shorty for mobile (with amp) although the amp may not be enough to drive it properly really. Or change the lead for a really long one for the TV. If you change the lead quite a lot, that connection problem seems to disappear. I guess if it's bad on the ones we get, they have been stored for a while. It's a useful thing to have if you can avoid hard wiring.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2013 21:20:51 GMT
Juno are doing these for under £120 shipped, which is £20 less than Amazon, even more of a bargain. Mick.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 2, 2013 21:48:15 GMT
Juno are doing these for under £120 shipped, which is £20 less than Amazon, even more of a bargain. Mick. I mentioned that about 2 months ago get with the program Mick
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 2, 2013 21:56:37 GMT
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 2, 2013 22:17:06 GMT
That's a very good price, Mike. I was wondering about USA and paying the postage and tax!!
Don't forget your German plasticine and fresh lamb's wool.
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ronzo56
Been here a while!
All you need is love. But money helps too.
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Post by ronzo56 on Mar 2, 2013 22:30:12 GMT
Ian, I was expecting the Mad Dogs to be a little bass heavy, but the ones I heard weren't ,at least to me, and I'm definately not a bass head. Fat head maybe. I think Dan may have made some revisions recently as I seem to recall they were fairly new cans. I heard rumors that Dan is revising them frequently to get a flatter response, but I have not seen any measurements yet. Hoping Mr. Chang will get a pair to check out soon. They are on my list of "maybe someday soon." I was listening to my slightly modded pair last night to some Mel Torme. His vocals where right there in my head, very real sounding, smooth. Still can't believe what I paid for these gems. Unfortunatly no one brought a pair of Paradox's to the meet. I did ask about them and a lot of people have them or have heard them. All said they sound as flat as the FR graphs show. Almost everyone seemed to think they were very good sounding, one person found them "uninvolving". I think he may like a headphone with a little more bass. With all the praise I did find it odd that there weren't any there. The can that was BIG at the meet were the HD800. Many of the folks at the tables had a pair hooked up to their gear. I got to have a lot of head time with them. Interesting can. Seemed very sensitive to the amp it was paired with. Very very detailed. Not due to a lifted treble as much as it just is revealing. On some gear pronounced silabance on female vocals usually on solid state. Would not be able to handle it for long listening. Someone there is working on mods to help with it. All tubes amps really tamed them. Can't wait for you to get a listen. I don't think there are new models of t40 and T50, at least no one mentioned it. I think you are right. I've read on some mod theards that the pins do oxidize, some folks clean them about once a year. Maybe the new ones oxidize on the way over from Japan. ?? Hum...Ron the Capitalist?? I will have to think it over. Or maybe just send them to you guys for cost and shipping and handling. Or would that be too socialist? I have to be careful of that being an American. Next thing someone will say I was born in Kenya. There may be mini-meet in the Spring. Perhaps I can find a Paradox to listen to then. Cheers, Ron
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 2, 2013 23:28:45 GMT
There are two types of T40 and 50. Fostex kept quiet about it. One version use black material for the drivers and another is white. I'm not certain which one is the newest. There could be differences which Black Dog has also kept quiet about since they charge quite a lot for them.
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ronzo56
Been here a while!
All you need is love. But money helps too.
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Post by ronzo56 on Mar 3, 2013 3:44:20 GMT
There are two types of T40 and 50. Fostex kept quiet about it. One version use black material for the drivers and another is white. I'm not certain which one is the newest. There could be differences which Black Dog has also kept quiet about since they charge quite a lot for them. I will have to look into this. I did hear something about it, but some didn't think they had changed the drivers. Perhaps they did. Mr. Speakers is usually pretty open about these issues. I will see if some of my Southern California measurement friends have an answer. Cheers, Ron
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2013 8:51:11 GMT
Juno are doing these for under £120 shipped, which is £20 less than Amazon, even more of a bargain. Mick. I mentioned that about 2 months ago get with the program Mick Whoops, missed it Mike, i suppose the 940 ear pads are cheaper from Juno than they are from Thomann, but as mine are on the way here, i`m not going to look. Mick.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 3, 2013 9:04:04 GMT
When you get the pads, Mick, they can be difficult to get on. They're just a bit smaller than the standard ones. I folded the outer edge back over the velour, place the pad in position and then folded the lip back but you have to keep your thumb on the bit that's folded over the cups or else they flip off.
Once they're on, they stay ok although some people have put sticky pads under the bit that goes round the cups to hold them there.
The sound changes quite a lot, just by doing that!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2013 9:09:42 GMT
Yes, they are very detailed, i find them great on classical music, and most "unplugged" performances.
Mine sound at there best to me, driven by my CH Amp (not a tube Amp), which has been set up to suit them.
I find them tiring on heavy rock music, but i don`t listen to much of that, so no problem.
Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2013 9:12:06 GMT
When you get the pads, Mick, they can be difficult to get on. They're just a bit smaller than the standard ones. I folded the outer edge back over the velour, place the pad in position and then folded the lip back but you have to keep your thumb on the bit that's folded over the cups or else they flip off. Once they're on, they stay ok although some people have put sticky pads under the bit that goes round the cups to hold them there. The sound changes quite a lot, just by doing that! Ok Ian, Thanks for that, should be here sometime this week. Mick.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 3, 2013 9:41:19 GMT
Yes, they are very detailed, i find them great on classical music, and most "unplugged" performances. Mine sound at there best to me, driven by my CH Amp (not a tube Amp), which has been set up to suit them. I find them tiring on heavy rock music, but i don`t listen to much of that, so no problem. Mick. That 'tiring' thing could be the HD800 speed of attack, Mick. They have a very fast response as well, I think. I found similar with electrostats years ago. They were treble led; which I really didn't like. Perhaps they've improved a lot now? I've always been curious about two amps - the O2 by Voldemort and the CH amp. I never liked the hype that Voldemort created by his attitude on line and always suspected it could be a flash in the pan, but the idea of having an amp that is configurable and very powerful has always made sense to me. The Horizon has a taste of that and is imo a very useful feature. That blows the beejaysus into the T40/50 too!! I have been comparing the unmodded T50 with the modded T40 this morning. There are quite clear differences and my feeling is that some people may not like 'flat' as much as the more round version that you get from the T50. Just putting the 940 pads on and (for me) switching in the filter gives you a fat, full bodied sound from the T50 and if you want to take a little of the bass back, just tape up (close) the vents on either side. The filter does a lot to the 'presence' and 'air' of the headphones and for some, this could easily be enough. It has a raised bass and slight hump in mid bass, but actually, it's more like what many would feel represents a really good headphone. Modding the insides dampens the bass down quite a bit so it's more even handed from top to bottom and something that Ron said, made me wonder whether what the guy he met at the California meet said - 'uninvolving.' That could be to do with the bass. Some people like a bass that's a tad heavier than neutral and that could be what he was getting at. You can have quite a few versions of this headphone: a) Unmodded - good as a monitor and very much mid-focused. Still a good headphone. Unusual sound. a*) Unmodded with blocked ports - lowers bass amount slightly. b) Unmodded with filter - extended treble. b*) Unmodded with filter and blocked ports - again, lowers the bass amount slightly. c) Pad change - Added bass. Dip in lower treble. Quite dark and bassy. (Darker than HD650) d) Pad Change + Filter - Loses the lower treble dip and more extended. Bass is very full. e) Modded inside - Bass is calmed but there is still (*for me) a lack of extension in the treble. f) Modded inside + filter - Bass is very controlled and even plus a lot more extension and air. Personally, I prefer d and f. Both with filter. It addresses that dip at 3KHz and the bass can then be tuned according to taste. The nice thing is that it can be modded into whatever you want really but the problem is that if you only have one headphone and no facility to measure them, it's difficult to assess exactly what's going on with nothing to compare with. As another comparison - the K601 which is one of my favourite headphones is not too far away in fact. It has more of a 'jangle' in the top and is perhaps more open/wide sounding but I think my preference is the 'smoothness' of the T50/T40. The K601 is pretty close actually, so they're not too shabby at all. I'm quite pleased about that since I've always been drawn to them, so I guess the K601 will stay with me and the HD650 which the wife uses on the electric piano. She likes them. I've always felt that AKG did a good job with the K601 and they went and let the K701/K702 variants overshadow it somewhat which is a great pity. Now they're scarce and I still think it's a good headphone. I'm just saying Mike, the filter and pads only may be more to your tastes. Flat isn't for everyone, I know. There are a lot of variations of this headphone available with simple mods and a lot would depend on your preferences for bass amounts in particular imo.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 5, 2013 21:34:25 GMT
My SECOND pair have arrived from Juno records and they suffer the same "crackly" connection problem..... sorted that out with a clean of the plugs...... I've been listening for almost 4 hours now and sincerely HOPE that these can be improved with tweaks and mods Straight out of the box they are nothing other than "acceptable"..... where's the bass?, where's the "WOW!" factor?...... I can't say I'm impressed by these in ANY way whatsoever and hope they're not a case of the Emporer's new clothes....... The stock T50RP sound like mid junkies (to my ears) and there's no aspect of those "mids" that makes me think they are better than any other dynamic headphone. Maybe I'm going deaf.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 5, 2013 23:12:05 GMT
You have version 'a' from above, Mike. The Emporer will get new underpants if you fit 940 pads which will bring more bass but they will sound 'dark' until filtered. The filter extends the treble beyond 22KHz and takes it down to 10 Hz. Unmodded, they are bland and only useful as a 'work' headphone but not much use for hi fi!! (So you're certainly not deaf!!) The most effective things are the pad change and the filter. I think you'd much prefer them then. You may not like the effects of the dampening since they do go pretty flat which for some means not enough bass. Some recordings will also sound pretty bad as well. A headphone with a nice bass hump will help those. Get those plastic pads off and have a refit. Then you'll hear more bass. Then you'll then want more treble extension which is what the filter does dramatically. Call the filter an 'energiser'.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 6, 2013 13:57:53 GMT
They certainly do have nice mids in stock guise.... had a listen to some Willie Nelson last night and he sounded very "real", almost in the room. I'll start off with the internal mods Ian and then the filter.... does Frans sell the filters ready made?
Mike.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 6, 2013 14:33:47 GMT
They certainly do have nice mids in stock guise.... had a listen to some Willie Nelson last night and he sounded very "real", almost in the room. I'll start off with the internal mods Ian and then the filter.... does Frans sell the filters ready made? Mike. They're an odd headphone, Mike. They do sound strange in comparison to hi fi types but they are designed to be absolutely focused in the mids. (Similar to the way the 7506 is I guess) It's also volume related. Listen LOUD. They work better!! Life volume is what they do well. The only reason I suggested pads and filter first is that tbh, it's close to the dampened version with a little more bass. The dampened version is more restrained. (I have both so I can easily compare) The dampening doesn't produce more bass. It controls it better but doesn't produce any more quantity. The pads introduce the bass and the filter brings the treble in (while taking out a big notch). The padding basically flattens the slight bass hump and the headphone sounds less bassy. Once done though, It would be difficult to get the German Plasticine out if you didn't like it. I'm not sure that Frans even sells the filter, Mike. I told him that I had a T50 for work and I rather liked it for that job. I wondered whether he could make a filter for me so that I could use the same headphone at home. He ended up doing a T40 fully for me with the filter as well!! The filter goes between the input and the amp so it doesn't get in the way at all. To me, the pads and filter make the most dramatic differences. I can easily use the T50 without filter, as long as I listen loud but when you switch it in, everything becomes much tidier. By just changing the pads, you'll hear the difference. The mids will stay but the bass appears, and it's quite deep too. Have you got pads on the way? I guess I'm lucky in that I am able to compare the original with the modded directly, but even for work, I prefer the stock T50 with Shure 940 pads. It makes a big difference.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2013 17:57:37 GMT
They certainly do have nice mids in stock guise.... had a listen to some Willie Nelson last night and he sounded very "real", almost in the room. I'll start off with the internal mods Ian and then the filter.... does Frans sell the filters ready made? Mike. I think you will find that they improve dramatically with a few hours on them, and also driven by a powerful Amp Mike. All the ortho`s give a great mid-range, and only a few that i have listened to, are brilliant in bass and top-end also. I really like the pr i have, in fact i`m happy with the stock sound for the price, but will give the modifications a try. Perhaps they are just different to what you are used to, or the ortho sound is not for you, which i mentioned in an earlier post. Mick.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 6, 2013 19:31:06 GMT
No Pads on the way Ian, I'll live with the stock sound for a couple of weeks so I have a benchmark to refer to when applying the tweaks (one by one)...... I've gathered some sheep's wool from a fence today and will wash it and fluff it up..... will use that as some of the dampening / acoustic material. I'm going to pass on the plasticine and try my favourite sticky butyl rubber, seeing I've got a 50 metre roll of it! The cable is just AWFUL, there's no other word for it.... it's microphonic, stiff, too long and noisy.... the connectors are shite and need more than a "clean", they need removing altogether! This is the second pair I've had with a dodgy connection..... that will be the first thing to go. Listening to Dave Brubek right now and these are very good with jazz in their stock form.... a bit more bass, a tad more zing in the top and these wouldn't be at all bad.... I'm looking forward to going under the hood now
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 6, 2013 19:43:38 GMT
The filter brings in the zing and pads the bass, Mike.
For some reason, both of minds seem fine on the connection point. I gave them a lot of wiggling in the socket with cleaning fluid and they've not played up again. I can move the plug and get no noises at all now.
Some people hard wire them to just eliminate it.
Volume helps them a lot. They really do well at high volume!! (Because of the way they are voiced) The orthos are a very smooth sound and stay quite smooth even with that filter in.
I find the hd650 treble slightly cranky by comparison as well which is quite funny seeing how laid back they are. The T50 is almost horizontal. Nothing really stands out so they sound quite underwhelming.
I'll send you some pads up Mike, on the weekend.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 6, 2013 20:13:09 GMT
I'll send you some pads up Mike, on the weekend. Ian, you don't have to do that mate BUT........ if you wouldn't mind being without your filter for a few days I wouldn't mind having a listen..... All I need is two days with it to establish whether or not it is something I cannot do without..... If there is an "improvement" then I trust it is instantly audible and will go down the filter route before stuffing sheep's wool and other goodies in Mike.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 6, 2013 20:21:11 GMT
OK Mike. I'll send the filter with the pads. My gut feeling is that you will find the pad change and filter plenty without stuffing it. That way, you will retain a slightly raised bass which many might prefer tbh.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 6, 2013 21:34:48 GMT
OK Mike. I'll send the filter with the pads. My gut feeling is that you will find the pad change and filter plenty without stuffing it. That way, you will retain a slightly raised bass which many might prefer tbh. Cheers Ian, I'll get it back to you within a week All the best, Mike.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 6, 2013 21:52:58 GMT
Ian, PM me your details again....... I want you to have a listen to a pair of Philips SHP-9000 Mike.
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