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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2013 17:31:15 GMT
I got a pair of these Fostex headphones delivered today with regard to replacing my DT150 for work purposes.
The DT150 is a great headphone for loud monitoring with a soft top end so it can be worn for long periods without hurting your ears.
TheFostex arrived and straight away, I noticed the amazing mid response from it. They are the most natural mids I've heard in a long time.
I don't know whether anyone is familiar with this headphone but there are threads on other forums which suggest heavy mods which will transform these headphones into something quite special. Well, I tell you what, stock, they're not at all bad. You can really hear that it is a good headphone.
If you don't already know, it's an ortho. The mids are very natural. Bass isn't pronounced but it's pretty well defined and easily followed. They take some driving for a 50 ohm can but put them on a furnace work amp and they really go. I brought it home and put it onto the T1 and I'm really pleased - that naturalness of sound that they have remains. It needs a bit more kick in the treble though.
The weirdest thing about them is how I have been SO aware of studio artifacts with them today. In a broadcast studio, I could hear announcers clothes with ease and could detect their head movements while speaking ..... with ease. No bloom on mens' voices and yet it still has bass; although I have read on other forums that they regard the bass as weak. I didn't find this at all on a strong amp - it just integrates well.
The other thing is that no frequency really stands out as being strong. You know how people go on about the bass of the DT770 or the treble of the K770 and they quickly identify what they think are the strengths of their headphone - well I can't report a strength!! It just seems 'balanced' sounding and this is a stock T50rp.
The biggest problem with it for hi fi people would be the treble response which would seem too smooth. (As in HD650 treble) At loud volume, this is no problem whatsoever - which is what you tend to use in a studio.
This has been a surprise to me. It's not a typical 'hi fi' headphone but has a naturalness and smoothness that is unusual.
I have been curious about them for a while. I tried eq'ing today and it does lift the sense of air but straight out of the box, these seem very natural, as long as you're prepared to get the volume to snap it into focus.
Has anyone else got a pair of these?
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Post by Seamus on Jan 22, 2013 23:19:23 GMT
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chris1967
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Post by chris1967 on Jan 23, 2013 6:47:23 GMT
I have these headphones moded... they are my second best phones after my Sennheiser HD800... I have painstakingly read the headfi mod thread and have modded them using plasticine on the baffle, self adhesive felt on the back of the driver with breathing port, cotton for bass damping, closed the reflex hole completely and Shure 940 velour pads... You can follow this thread and use an online translator to translate from Greek. www.avclub.gr/forum/showthread.php/88261-Fostex-H-phones/page3?highlight=t50rp+fostexThe mod has produced treble and bass extension not existant in the original phone configuration. The bass with only those initial insulating strips and one line of the bass reflex open was similar to Superlux Hd681... but the cotton has tuned this in to my desirable amounts... I will try to repost the pictures here... but for anyone modding, i recommend you read the very long thread maybe backwards... and the moding table...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 7:54:29 GMT
The modding threads go on and on don't they. There seem to be endless posts concerning a piece of paper here and a a twist there...... I've only used it for a day, but from a quality feed and tbh, I preferred it to my DT150. It's just less lumpy and feels more natural even in stock form. I think that it responds well to having a lot of power available actually. (Now I need a mega amp!!!) I know that many say that they don't like it in stock form but I haven't found it as bad as people say if I'm honest. The mids are the best I've heard. It feels very 'even' through the spectrum. Bass weight is there and yet some feel it is missing! I didn't at all. I can follow bass lines with ease and it integrates fine with the mids. My biggest problem with it (for home use) is the treble. It's curtailed a bit too soon for me. Even if it were just a fraction more, I'd be happier. However, it's fine as a loud monitoring heaphone. Basically, the mods look like stopping cup resonances with fillers, tuning the bass through a port and changing the pads. The FR is aboslutely flat if that's done - actually, it's amazingly flat. However, I also think that it's a slightly more precise thing as well. One guy is charging a fortune to mod them but he's doing it by fine tuning and testing FR. I wonder whether a badly done mod doesn't really fix it but perhaps helps. ie: to mod it, I'd want to get it as flat as possible and not do a halfway house mod. It would also depend on the cost of the mods as well I think. I'd prefer to have someone measure what is going on in there rather than do it by guesswork. The Headfi thread is quite amazing and one guy has done each mod followed by measurements taken on each step as a result of the mod. There are so many, that I wonder how long it must have taken him. The thing is, the mod threads have put people off a perfectly respectable headphone imo. For me, the top end is a problem. At around £115, it's really not a bad headphone.
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Post by dicky on Jan 23, 2013 8:10:58 GMT
Hi Ian, I've been considering these HPs as an altenative to my K340s. I've bought some of Frans' filter PCBs to have a play and see what I can do with them. In particular I wanted to try to get a bit more bass from my K340s. It is there, and you can follow it, but it's never quite enough for me and I'm always driven back to my DT990s - but, by comparison, they are claustrophobic. I'd be over the moon if the K340s had just that bit more bass (for me), but I'm wondering if I'm flogging a dead horse! I don't know if you've heard any K340s - but I'd be interested if anyone out there has ever made a comparison with the T50s.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 8:22:44 GMT
I don't mid the T50RP as is although I'm aware of the top, beyond 10,000 I think it is, being curtailed. The bass integration is super although it doesn't hit as hard as the DT990. Some mention how uncomfortable the pads are, but I managed to wear them most of the day without a problem. My ears fit inside though, so that may be why. There may be some 'cuppiness' but I haven't found many closed or semi-closed that don't exhibit this tbh. After all, if the music is sealed in a tiny chamber, then surely it will sound like ...... it's in a chamber? I'm amazed how some are able get away from that in closed designs (like the K550) but the fact is, the music is sealed in a tiny room!! I do think that the Fostex are a viable alternative to the DT150 since they have much less bloat which is great for voice.
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chris1967
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Post by chris1967 on Jan 23, 2013 12:24:21 GMT
These headphones have enough treble extension... you have to mod them though, and the modification is very simple, and costs very very little... next to nothing if you are content with the stock pads...
It takes some plasticine, a self adhesive felt pad some cotton wool, and some kind of damping material, paxmate or dynamat... i used door/window insulator...
No re cabling, no soldering... and with port adjustment you can get the desirable bass boost... which is very low...
I must point out that in stock form they are nothing special... but modded... they become a completely... and i mean COMPLETELY other phone...
The driver is easy to drive but needs a lot of voltage... and with the mods it needs the volume pot to be a few notches higher...
In stock form i must say they remained only for a few days in my possession... I had bought them to mod because i heard the ridiculous comparisons with much more expensive phones... and believe me this is true...
I must agree with you absolutely on your description of the stock form...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 18:44:39 GMT
Chris, I've been using them all day today at work and I am finding that as high volume monitors, they are really good. No harshness and the bass appears quite a lot more. They are having a lot of power available to them so as you say, they DO need quite a lot of voltage but they are really quite natural sounding and I've lost the bloat of the dt150 that I normally would use. Snare drum attack and decay are fantastic through them. At lower volume, they seem a bit mundane, but whack them up with power and ....... It's the curtailed top end that allows this and imo, this is what they're designed for rather than hi fi at home and lower volumes. They really open up once you get the power into them.
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Post by dicky on Jan 23, 2013 19:14:53 GMT
So what kind of power (voltage) levels are we talking about, Ian?
Would a Panda be sufficient? What are you driving them with at home?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 20:23:45 GMT
You know, Dicky - at work I'm not exactly sure. I can get them to work as speakers virtually so I guess one volt or so. They'll take as much as 3 I think!!
I don't mean have them on at top whack, but if you listen louder, they bloom a bit and since they seem to take a little bit of driving you need some in reserve to give a good transient response. I really like the hit of snares on them at high volume. They do react very fast and seem to stop fast, almost electro-stat in a way with bass.
Since they do roll away early, they work really well up top.
The Panda works but imo it's a bit warm. So are the Aunes actually. They're not unpleasant but as a stock headphone, it needs as much air as you can blow into them, or eq the top.
The bass is curious. To my ears, it seems fine, but many complain about lack of bass. Maybe it's because mine's been driven by a fat amp at work, I don't know. If the bass isn't really recorded too well, then it is thin down there, but today, I put Ozric Tentacles stuff through them and some Shpongle and the bass seems to appear. It's damned fast and doesn't linger that much to the ears, so I guess with filling the cups, it'll get even quicker sounding.
Its real strength are the mids without a doubt. (Although on stock they apparently have a mild hump)
For me, it's biggest problem for hi fi is the treble. It reminds me of the HD650 treble, except it doesn't have the HD650 bass.
I think the mods will really pull this headphone out, but I also think it's important to have them done correctly and not just shove in padding. I was looking at some really detailed threads concerning the modding of this headphone and the guy was measuring everything along the way. He points out the 'fluffing of the padding at one point at the edges of the headphone and he also talks about density and how much. Each different type of mod that he showed made the graph appear quite different and I wouldn't want to change it just to make a different sound. I think the aim would be to get it as flat and extended as possible.
Randomly stuffing them could just make them 'appear' better perhaps but maybe not much flatter than they are. I don't know.
I think if I did mine, I'd want it done so that it measures as flat as possible and boy, on some of those charts; depending on the mods, it really goes unbelievably flat for such a cheap headphone.
There is a guy who mods them properly for people but he charges an awful lot for them. To me, that kind of goes against buying a cheap headphone in a way. Buy a good ortho and have done with it perhaps.
They do sound different to 'normal' headphones but I do like the way that you can turn them up with no pain and the speed of attack. In a way, they remind me of electrostats with a stronger bass, but not as strong as the headphones I'm used to. I'm beginning to think that orthos are the way to go or even go back to electrostats that I used to use at home. I didn't like them, but I have a feeling I'm more educated nowadays. ;-)
I think Chris is right - not remarkable, but you can hear that it has a lot of potential.
I'd like to hear a modded one (properly modded, not randomly stuffed) to compare actually.
The only other thing I think is negative about them - they're ugly feckers. They look like something out of the 80's. My wife thinks I look like Spock with them on.
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Post by dicky on Jan 23, 2013 21:20:17 GMT
Frans certainly rates these 'phones when modded. In an email exchange he put them up there with LCD2/3 and HE500! I have a handful of his filter PCBs with a view to sorting out some of my problem children but now I'm tempted to use one with a pair of T50s. As for how they look - you could always listen in the dark!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 21:49:19 GMT
I'm too old to care!!! Actually, with regards to amp power. I just tried it with a Kindle Fire on a podcast. I changed the lead to a short one and came straight out of the Fire. It works fine. You get enough volume. For music, I think and amp would be better. They take up to 3,000 Mw so they can take a lot. However, they are actually usable on an mp3 player. An extra bonus is you just unplug its cord and put another one in!!
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ronzo56
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Post by ronzo56 on Jan 24, 2013 15:49:49 GMT
Hi Ian, I have an unmodified pair. I think they sound best with my MF V2 and my Headroom Desktop. I agree they need a little more out of the amp to get everything sounding right. I really like them for male vocals. I have one of Fran's PCB's for a filter but I am starting with my LCD-2's first. It will be interesting to see what you think of the Fostex with the filter. They have a large following of modders (not the Quadrophenia type ) here in the States as you can tell from the never ending mod thread. I actually read the whole thing this summer. Should have received some college credits for it. Tried changing the stock pads, and fiddled about (Uncle Ernie, NO!) with the bass ports at the back, but still do not have them were I would like. One day I will have a go at opening them up or sending them out to be modded internally. Cheers, Ron PS-Sorry about The Who references, I'm listening to "Tommy" at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 16:54:04 GMT
Hi Ron,
I didn't know you had them as well!! I guess the filter you're talking about is the one that boosts the top end to 25 KhZ?
I don't think the mods are as simple as stuffing up the back. The guy that specialises in them seems to go to great trouble to measure along the way and make sure that the headphone is responding in the way that he expects.
Many are using Shure pads, but I concerned that the bass gets raised and the treble gets pushed back as a result.
Vocals are brilliant on them and on readio, there's just no sign of boominess in mens' voices which is SO common with many headphones.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jan 25, 2013 10:48:42 GMT
Stop tempting me guys, they are available from BH for $89 USD including free shipping!
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Post by dicky on Jan 25, 2013 11:34:58 GMT
Well, I've bought a pair. I've also ordered the bits to build Frans' filter That flippin' Rabbit is costing me a fortune!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 13:55:50 GMT
Whoops .... sorry. They have a lot of potential; especially with the mods. Stock is quite strange. It most definitely mids based, so no earth shaking bass and no shrill highs. However, it does have a naturalness that is really quite unusual in a headphone. It's not until you swap headphones that you realise, actually, it does a lot right. It's a really unassuming sound that has no area dominating. I went over to the DT770 and went straight back to the T50rp again. The DT770 sounds really hefty down in the bass and the treble a bit stingy. The T50 is just mellow and middly, I guess. Great as a monitoring headphone and it's capable of taking an enormous amount of power as well. It has a very different sound. I think I need two of them. One as stock as a monitor and one modified for hi fi!! USA prices are better than UK. About £115 over here, I think. Fostex designed the Denons but they don't have the same fat bass of the Denons. Brilliant for voice. No boom and no sibilance whatsoever. For me, I just need a bit more treble extension at home. However, it's not just a stuff it and see job. I think the whole thing is a little more precise and if I were going to the trouble of modding them, I'd want them right, not an approximation.
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ronzo56
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Post by ronzo56 on Jan 26, 2013 1:56:15 GMT
I am going to a headphone meet next month and it looks like both the major T50 modders will be there. Hoping to have at least a chat with them about their process. I know they don't reveal their trade secrets as they both sell their modded products. But it might be interesting.
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Post by pagan on Jan 26, 2013 3:18:43 GMT
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chris1967
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Post by chris1967 on Jan 26, 2013 7:39:13 GMT
I am just wondering... i am the only one here that has modded them, i have said how nice they sound (my second best headphone after my HD800's) after are modded, and everyone is asking each other, and no one asks me... i find this a little weird...
The problem with these phones is the rigidity of the bafle and the back... it is not the driver to try and tune it with filters etc...
anyhow if someone wants to mod them and would like my input i will gladly give it... Thank you!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 8:44:53 GMT
Have you got the hump, Chis? You possibly haven't been asked because you've already said it's your second best headphone behind the hd800. Actually, some people prefer the modded T50 because the HD800 has a spike in the treble that a guy on another site has found a cure for. The T50 goes flat too but at a lot less cost. There are so many suggestions concerning the T50 but the main three are pads, filling the chambers in the cups and putting in padding. Also some kind of cover over the drivers. Which ones have you done? Depending on what combo controls how flat it ends up. The guy who officially does the mods (LFF) measures headphone response on each step and tweaks away. For me, it's extremely good as is, as a monitoring headphone but not as a hi fi one, although I really don' t mind it. If I got mine to what he seems to have done with the T40 and T50, I think my other headphones would go tbh. LFF charges a lot for the mods so I won't bother and I don't want to guess or ruin my headphone!! The Headfonia guy, Mike has it about right imo: As I said earlier, the T50RP is about a smooth grainless sound, and a deep black background. You’re not going to find a sparkly treble, punchy tight bass, or a massive soundstage with this headphone. If you find it difficult to understand what a grainless sound or deep black background is, it’s because they are rarely mentioned in headphone reviews. Indeed these are minor things we’re talking about (compared to tight punchy bass or a deep soundstage), but the Fostex pulled it off so successfully that I can’t seem to get enough of the T50RP’s sound.It's kind of weird - no big fat bass, no sharp treble. However, it is a very attractive sound - even in stock form. Voices on radio are 'right'. No boom, so sibilance. So if anything, these are great radio headphones!! I would suggest louder volumes, until the bass clicks in, then to me, it sounds spot on. Just a tad more in the top wouldn't hurt. Another quote I agree with: the grain free sound is something that I rarely experience out of a dynamic set up, but the Fostex manages to give it to me on any set up I use.This is what I mean about random DIY modding: I didn't personally do any mods on my T50. My friends do though, all sorts of damping stuff that seem to evolve from one month to the next. I still prefer the balance of the stock T50 than the modded ones.www.headfonia.com/the-fostex-orthodynamics-t50rp-and-t40rp-mk2/
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Post by dicky on Jan 26, 2013 18:25:05 GMT
Well the T50s turned up today and I gave them a quick spin to check they were serviceable. Well I can only echo Ian's comments regarding the mids. They are nice and smooth - effortless. Now, I don't like bright headphones - but blimey, even for me these are seriously lacking in treble. Furthermore, there's no where near enough bass for me - but I knew that would be the case. Anyhoo, I've got Frans' filter to restore the treble and I'll fiddle about with some wool, plasticine and a pair of Val's old knickers to sort out the lows. Exciting times ahead ..............
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 19:23:38 GMT
That treble thing is curious, Dicky. I find that my head kind of adjusts and going back to 'more extended' headphones makes them sound much more grainy to me!! The T50 is very smooth and as you say, 'dark'. Try saying 'sssss' and then listen to speech. The T50 does produce those bits, but not aggressively.
A bit more 'air' wouldn't hurt though.
f you turn them up to a more life like volume, they seem to sound 'righter' to me. (Then you'll see how much power they need as well!!) They seem to need a lot of power to drive the hard.
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Post by dicky on Jan 27, 2013 12:01:03 GMT
Well, I've been listening to these things for about 3 hours this morning - and I've tuned into them. It just goes to show that you shouldn't jump to conclusions! I was convinced after 5 minutes yesterday that I'd never be able to listen to these again until I'd filled them with wool and plasticine. But, they are actually very good in standard form - though I still need a bit better low end extension. I'm driving them with the 0 Ohm output from a Panda (DIY not S2) which seems to get a reasonable grip of them compared to the 75 Ohm output. They do need more volume than I'm comfortable with to get the bass to come alive - but when it does it seems better balanced with the mids than in my 990s. I'm definitely enjoying them though and if the mods can improve them further for a few quid then they're worth a punt.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 19:59:01 GMT
It is strange Dicky - you do kind of feel that there's something amiss on first listen, but once you get accustomed to what they do, you kind of 'tune in' and find actually, they're not that bad - especially at loud volume.
I'm still not convinced that random modding is the answer. I think it's a little more precise than people make out.
I've seen myriads of frequency graphs, and each modification and different type of material results in different FR graphs. There was one that I really thought ... wow ... that IS flat. Top to bottom. Others were more extended but different shaped humps.
They seem to be highly tunable but I would prefer the flat version that I saw, I think. Plus the huge extention both ways.
Some people are just changing the pads. They sound better but the FR doesn't go any flatter. It seems to tilt more towards the bass, I think. There are loads of versions of mods, all affecting the headphone in different ways.
With the T50, the way that it gets inside the sound as it is, shows that the potential is there for this to be a top headphone. Therefore, it's worth getting it as right or as flat as possible.
In every headphone I've listened to, I have found a reason not to use them as an ultimate headphone. Without getting too negative, I could pick out something in every one of them.
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