joethearachnid
Been here a while!
Old head on young shoulders.
Posts: 380
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Post by joethearachnid on Aug 30, 2012 21:21:33 GMT
Dale: Although Jude calls it an 'HD 25 Amperior' the Sennheiser guys quickly corrects him to just 'Amperior'. It seems odd that Sennheiser are distancing the Amperior from the HD 25 given its near-legendary status, but perhaps since this is a direct shot at the mainstream crowd they don't want to advertise that there's a cheaper and almost-as-good (if not the same) alternative?
Ian: Jude hasn't done any videos in quite a while. It's a shame, because whilst Head-Fi isn't really a place I like to spend time these days, well-produced and entertaining web shows on hi-fi products are hard to come by.
-JoetheArachnid
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 30, 2012 21:22:34 GMT
Check out Marcus' comments and review (I think) of the Zoro on Headfonics. headfonics.com/
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 30, 2012 21:26:13 GMT
I can understand the loyalty thing at head-fi, for a number of reasons, so I'm sympathetic to that association of Hd25 to Amperior. I would certainly like to see Sennheiser reward the head-fi loyalty by at least giving them some inside info, even if there were limits on disclosure for a period of time. But Senn is a very conservative group, very proud, very stubborn....
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 31, 2012 2:21:50 GMT
Video review comparing Amperior, M50, Philips L1. (Spoiler: L1 sounds as good when bass reducer used on L1.) youtu.be/wT10JVXWZuoEdit: The comparisons were new, done just before the video review.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 7:40:22 GMT
Check out Marcus' comments and review (I think) of the Zoro on Headfonics. headfonics.com/It looks as though it sounds OK, Dale. Thanks for that. The first rview I've seen on it. Never seen them before. They look nice and certainly do look like Dre's abomination. The guy that's sending them to me said there was a bit of a suck out at 4 Khz if I wanted to eq them it would be worth pushing 4 KHz up by about 20db!!!!! It's pretty normal to see a slight suck out at 7 Khz in order to combat 'ear resonances' and I wonder whether Chinese ears resonate lower down!! With the 7Khz suck out restored, headphones can start to sound a bit harsh, so with harsh headphones, it's useful to take 7 Khz down a bit depending on your ears/tastes. With that suck out at 4 Khz on the Zoro, I can imagine it being quite laid back. The sensitivity is amazing. 124 Db at 16 ohms Jeez... breath on it and it'll register on that. It has to be aimed at Ipods I guess. Anyway, I won't crowd out this Amperior thread with Zoro (not Zorro) I'll write a description here first before talking to this guy about it. I would feel a bit stupid walking around labelled as Zorro tbh and it's really plain on the headband. I think the Amperior is a lot more serious sounding and a bit more interesting than a Zoro; although the guy who saw this post said that they would surprise me. He also wants me to compare them with the fantastically built Fanny Wangs!!
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 31, 2012 8:33:00 GMT
Actually, Ian, I would rate the issue a tossup between being labeled Zorro (or Zoro, or Zoroaster etc.) and having to tell some cute femme that I'm wearing a Fanny Wang.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 13:48:36 GMT
;D Actually, Ian, I would rate the issue a tossup between being labeled Zorro (or Zoro, or Zoroaster etc.) and having to tell some cute femme that I'm wearing a Fanny Wang. ;D And in British English, a Fanny is extremely different to an American Fanny. Your Fanny is our butt. I won't describe an English Fanny. I could always say that I have Fanny's Wang on my head. Now in English' that's really bad. ;D A tiny amount of punctuation makes all the difference!!
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 31, 2012 14:36:11 GMT
I hope this isn't wandering too far off (oh, what the heck...) but on my DVD The September Issue, a reporter confronts Anna Wintour with the news that someone called her "An ice woman", which she shrugged off. And all she had to do was move that first space one character to the left.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 14:47:32 GMT
I hope this isn't wandering too far off (oh, what the heck...) but on my DVD The September Issue, a reporter confronts Anna Wintour with the news that someone called her "An ice woman", which she shrugged off. And all she had to do was move that first space one character to the left. ;D Do you make dvd's Dale? Actually, I meant to ask you - have you done the Amperior on YouTube?maybe I'll debut with the Zoro!
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 31, 2012 23:08:07 GMT
The youtube review is up, and I'm writing out the text review now. One of the surprises with the Amperior (and I never had a HD25) is how it sounds like a full size sealed headphone, not like the typical on ear models.
BTW Ian, a youtube vid on the Zoro would be another thorn (heh) in the side of Beats, i.e. a worthwhile thing I think.
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Post by dalethorn on Sept 1, 2012 3:49:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 8:10:13 GMT
Dale, with regards to Sennheiser plugs. There's not normally 'corrosion' in the plugs that causes that problem, it's to do with the way that the plug connects.
There's a single, very thin piece of copper wire inside Senn cups which just touch the plug when you insert it. Continual plugging/unplugging can cause it to easily fail because it's such a thin piece of wire in there.
It's hard to describe, but once you've seen it, you can see why it's a weak area and it also kind of makes you wonder about cable changing since ultimately, on a Sennheiser headphone, your expensive cable connects to a SINGLE STRAND of copper in the headphone!!!!
Not the best way to connect but that's the way Senns work - it's not corrosion.
I think Senn may have done something to try to stop this happening so easily, but it generally happens to people who keep changing cables or use such a heavy one that it wobbles the plug about and so breaks the link or pushes it off centre.
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funk1969
250+
Some things are so easily overlooked...
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Post by funk1969 on Sept 1, 2012 8:20:22 GMT
Tape, tape up the connector ends where you get the most movement in the cable. Just a bit of tape...
P.S. I used to practice fencing and the cable connecting the weapon always had this problem even though it was heavily insulated in expensive isolation. For my HD250 II I resort to tape...
P.P.S. I still disagree. The Amperior isn't modestly priced. For a new one I can hunt down the used HD6x0-series or a decent headphone with portable amp/dac.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 8:26:17 GMT
Tape, tape up the connector ends where you get the most movement in the cable. Just a bit of tape... P.S. I used to practice fencing and the cable connecting the weapon always had this problem even though it was heavily insulated in expensive isolation. For my HD250 II I resort to tape... Recent ones haven't been such a problem for me so I think Senn has done something about it tbh. However, they could take offence at the 'corrosion' remark which is why I mentioned it. You wouldn't believe how some companies react - I dared to mention a slightly naff fitting of a battery in an amp once and boy, did the maker get annoyed. I had emails and demands to withdraw. Mike, his usual self... stood up to the guy and told him it stayed thank goodness and it stopped, but my point is, they can get quite difficult if they don't like something written on the internet or put out on Youtube.
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funk1969
250+
Some things are so easily overlooked...
Posts: 481
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Post by funk1969 on Sept 1, 2012 8:39:36 GMT
Take a picture and measure the piece of shitty workmanship, that should help...
I usually get rid of any product that doesn't have the build quality I expect it to have. I mean you work to have a pleasant enough life. Some idiot who fails to deliver for your (hard earned) money should be happy that you even have chosen to stay polite.
To stay on topic, I still fail to see the price justified for the Amperior and the same goes for the DT1350 with its QC-problems. For about 100 euros I can buy a good sounding K181; for about 140 a DT250 or HD25 and for about 160 a nice sounding M50. Sorry but that Amperior has to be HD250 II level in sound before I pay 300 euros for basically a HD25 II with a lower impedance and aluminium cups.
Sorry for my reasoned ranting. Given I am a bargain hunter because I learned the trait from my parents I always go for value for money, not value for brands. :-(
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 9:22:19 GMT
;D Not at all. I quite enjoyed it!!! I think when you're describing gear (in public) you tread a fine line since you need to be fair to the makers as well as the buyers. I've often felt a bit responsible if someone buys something on your recommendation/review. I know it's their choice, but you feel like you're steering them. However, you also have to be fair to the maker of the gear as well and the price has to come into it. Generally, I find there are gnat's whisker differences between gear and to be perfectly honest, I don't think many would be aware of it. In particular - op amps etc. Gnat's whisker difference. With headphones, I think once you go above £200, the differences start to diminish. Also with headphones, not many are exactly neutral and I think because I've used them for so long, I tend to adapt to sound sigs pretty quickly and listen for the more subtle things. For instance, one of my favourite headphones is the D2000 which many would find coloured or 'thick' sounding. However, they bring a clarity into music that not many headphones do imo. The DT1350 is excellent and goes deep, but I understand completely how Dale had a problem with its analytical properties. I would say it is, indeed quite an analytical headphone. The HD25 is what I'd call a more 'musical' sounding headphone but it's not really neutral either. The 1350 is closer probably. However, headphones are made to portray music rather than analytical details unless you're looking for recording faults so each to his own. Sennheiser have hit a difficult price with the Amperior. There are loads of crappy, pretty headphones out there now aimed at kids who are getting ripped off by these companies and they are selling at around the same price level. They claim their headphones to be superior or worse, put a well known musician to the brand as some form of recommendation. The problem is, imo, these headphones are worth about half their price and now Sennheiser has done the same. A pretty headphone placed right in that market aimed at portable. However, in Sennheiser's case, they will have made a superior sounding headphone. The kids expect HUGE bass at that price range now. They've almost been 'trained' to expect it. That is actually their definition of a good headphone in many cases so Sennheiser will appeal more to audiophiles which may well mean less sales as well. It surprises me how closely it resembles the HD25 with that price attached. You can't help but see the similarities. I would like to compare an HD25 with it actually - that's the key to sales for them if it is different. However, even the rep on that Headfi video says it was built to sound exactly like the HD25 which really put me off because of the price. It will be difficult to see one on demo at this price as well so it's a difficult one. At my age, I don't look for bargains as much as a good sound you see. I'm willing to compromise sound if it's cheap, but if it's genuinely good (like I feel the D2000 is) I'd pay a premium price - but it has to be good.
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Post by dalethorn on Sept 1, 2012 9:56:45 GMT
Let's see now - On the corrosion thing, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, wot? It's a froggie? I'll accept what you say, however, I have fixed the static-y problem half a dozen times now as I described, so I suppose I've been lucky six times.
The DT1350 under ideal conditions with a perfect seal was analytical, but under typical conditions and inperfect seal was just not workable. The Amperior has no fit issues hence sounds perfect every time. I don't see a value problem with it because on the one hand, it impressed me immediately at the store as having an exceptional sound, and on the other hand, impresses me as the perfect rock headphone, making possible a listening enjoyment I haven't experienced heretofore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 10:28:29 GMT
Something to do with weather? I only had one go on me so I opened it up and saw the pathetic little connecting piece of 'hair' wire. Now that on the HD650 is pretty poor imo!!!
Nothing to do with sound - but talk about a duff connection point!! You'd think Sennheiser would change it for some other connection.
I've not had one corrode yet.
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Post by dalethorn on Sept 1, 2012 14:09:40 GMT
I had never considered corrosion, but when my 580 went bad and I figured I needed a replacement cable, I thought "Since the cable is removable I'll just remove it now and see if the HD600 cable works better." And it did. So far so good. Then I thought, "Hey, why not plug the defective 580 cable into the 600 just to make sure it's the cable that's bad?" And of course, that worked good too. "Hmmm", I thought. So while all of that worked I went off to other things. Then my wife's 600 went bad and this time I just yanked the cable, wiped the tips and re-inserted them. That fixed the 600. Sometime later at work my boss' HD580 went bad and he told me about it, and so I pretended not to know anything and I said "Here, try my HD600 cable", which he did and it worked for him, at which point I said "I'll send for a new one - just keep mine." And I scored points with him for heroically sacrificing my own cable to fix his headphone. (So far, batting 1000 as they say on this side of the pond)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 14:15:50 GMT
I seem to remember that those pins are coated, Dale. Maybe it's breaking down and you're buffing the metal back again. Years ago, I remember a warning about continually plugging/unplugging the cables because of some kind of coating on the pins. When the 580 came out.
Actually, I had two 580's go on me with the connection. Have you seen inside the cup and what it actually connects to. It's pathetic. A single strand of copper wire - really poor and always makes me wonder about these expensive cables and whether it's worth bothering with a single piece of copper at the other end!!
Possibly the same on the Amperior too, but at least the plugs don't take the weight of the cable on them.
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Post by dalethorn on Sept 1, 2012 17:46:24 GMT
What bothers me isn't the go-no-go with the connection. It's the loss of fidelity as the contact points become gradually less secure. There is microcorrosion there. It's unavoidable without soldering.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 17:47:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 19:29:03 GMT
Much as I presumed, Frans. Tyll very much sees it as an HD25 with an aluminium back. He mentioned the impedance difference but says that they measure virtually identically. It won't be long until someone does a conversion job!! No spares yet.
Makes me think of the Portapro Anniversary Edition.
Sennheiser are about to release another headphone called the 'Momentum' at roughly £250. The drivers are HD25 types again!!! Seems to me that Sennheiser are trying crack into the Ipod High end headphone market. (Although Dre's are not exactly high end, they do charge a premium price and are selling)
So Senn wants a slice eh?
Won't be long before the clones of the Dre's like the ones I've been testing will win out because of costings. That means the Amperior will appeal to the hi fi enthusiast imo rather then covert any Dre fans.
The Momentum looks very classy but I wonder if it's just more of the same? (and too expensive)
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Post by dalethorn on Sept 1, 2012 22:43:36 GMT
For Ian... Dale won't like it that much ;-) - in essence the differences are small yet huge I read it the second time and watched the video. Makes perfect sense of course. It raises issues about DIY fixes and how much guesswork and experimentation we have to do to try to duplicate those secret damping materials and stuff to "get it right". With the Shure 1440 mod I did, I made the wise choice and used Shure's own magic foams to dampen excess highs, instead of ordinary household filters that didn't work to improve the sound of the Shure 940 as I tried previously. Since I didn't have the HD25 prior to this I never missed it and the opportunity to tune it up. Or should I say - "The opportunity to try 20 different treatments and fail miserably at all of them." Still, compared to all of the $300 USD to $400 USD headphones available here (it ain't Japan, yomsayin'?), the Amperior produces the best sound for the money I think. Now Dr. Tyll can prove with his beads and rattles that the Amperior has a superior capability from the square waves etc., and I can tell you that when I first heard it I knew immediately that it was a cut above anything else I had that has as wide a range, but how to correlate my listening experience with magic potions and fancy test gear? I dunno about that. Basically, if I buy 6 headphones in the next year, I'll be stumbling from good to bad to good to bad to .... -- personally I'll feel great if I find any headphone for $600 or less that sounds better than the Amperior.
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Post by dalethorn on Sept 1, 2012 22:50:11 GMT
The Senn Momentum looks like they borrowed a page from Philips and the L1 design. I expect it to have the same impact as the L1. The hi-fi'ers will rate it as "mid-fi", the street people (youths) will ignore it, and since I already had my fill with the L1 and disastrous M1, I'll ignore it too. If Senn wants to score big in a market segment where they haven't been (both urban and high priced with the same device), they'll need a lot more than a better sound.
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