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Post by dalethorn on Aug 27, 2012 16:11:17 GMT
Just got the Amperior from the Apple store. Very rich sound, very clear. Gonna do a review after awhile, but feeling the pulse first. This is the first "really good" headphone I bought for quite some time.
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funk1969
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Post by funk1969 on Aug 27, 2012 23:44:57 GMT
It's a nice headphone, an improved HD25 basically. Especially the way it presents music is convincing.
Still too expensive i.m.o.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 0:01:00 GMT
'ere Dale, you been to London like mate? Ooooh, I go' a larvely set a senneisers for me 'eavy metal while ridin' me 'arley Davidson. just joshing with you Dale, I make tons of typos too
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joethearachnid
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Post by joethearachnid on Aug 28, 2012 0:05:12 GMT
As someone who bought an HD 25 not long before the Amperior came out and doesn't have the money to buy an Amperior as well, I will maintain that the two headphones sound essentially the same. -JoetheArachnid
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 28, 2012 0:06:27 GMT
'ere Dale, you been to London like mate? Ooooh, I go' a larvely set a senneisers for me 'eavy metal while ridin' me 'arley Davidson. just joshing with you Dale, I make tons of typos too Blimey! Did it again. Used to hang out with a Cockney fella in Santa Barbara years ago. He made a helluva fish 'n chips but we drank all 'is profits, so much for business.
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 28, 2012 0:33:50 GMT
As someone who bought an HD 25 not long before the Amperior came out and doesn't have the money to buy an Amperior as well, I will maintain that the two headphones sound essentially the same. -JoetheArachnid Never tried the HD25 series. I was surprised by the box - it felt like an empty box - the headphone is very plastic and very light. Also extremely comfy. The sound is odd. It sounds like it has great detail and upper harmonics, yet the brightness area like the horn crescendos in Jimmy Smith's Basin Street Blues sound distant. Sibilants are very minor, much less irritating than the ATH M50 or Shure 1840. The only negative is the upper bass has a bit of boomy quality, as though the emphasis were not much in strength but very broad in range.
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 28, 2012 2:43:17 GMT
Now I feel really dumb. The Amperior has the cable on the right side so I've been listening to my favorite tracks backwards. Scratch everything I said. This is a much better headphone than I thought. Like all the good of the ATH M50 with none of the bad, and better clarity.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 5:26:10 GMT
Perhaps you have your interconnect plugs in the wrong holes too, and that's why you didn't realise !
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 7:05:25 GMT
It's weird why Sennheiser put the lead on the right hand cup. Normally it is left. The hd25 is the same and it feels kind of wrong to me for some reason! The new one that you have is supposed to be a good one Dale.
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 28, 2012 10:13:12 GMT
The interconnect on the right is red, so it's rather obvious I suppose. More listening by myself and expert wife says this is amazingly good. Well worth the price, and that in itself was a surprise.
Edit: Someone I was talking to at length - this other person a big fan of the Grado PS1000, and I have heard the PS500 myself but not the 1000 - based on that person's description of the PS1000 sound, I recommended they try the Amperior. It's not likely the Sennheiser would have the unique tonality of the Grado, but maybe as a more portable substitute they may find it useful.
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funk1969
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Some things are so easily overlooked...
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Post by funk1969 on Aug 29, 2012 6:24:01 GMT
This headphone retails for a few euros north of the price the DT1350 sells for.
Is it really worth 300 euros? If they lower the prices I'll take note...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2012 10:21:22 GMT
Interesting in that the biggest difference seems to be the cups. So the improvements in sound come from the fact that the plastic back of the HD25 resonates more than the Amperior which is aluminium.
Now that makes me wonder whether it's possible to get that aluminium back on to the HD25 and so cut those resonances. The fit looks exactly the same.
I wonder what a pair of cups would cost since it could be worth pulling an HD25 apart?
In fact, a good many closed headphones could be improved this way since they aren't always designed with an optimal cup. Some manufacturers (and listeners) like the resonances there and would feel that the headphone has become slighy 'deader' sounding with less back reflections present.
Mike did this with an AT W1000 headphone where he applied bitumen to the back in order to hold resonances down.
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 29, 2012 12:17:45 GMT
This headphone retails for a few euros north of the price the DT1350 sells for. Is it really worth 300 euros? If they lower the prices I'll take note... Based on the sound it's well worth the money. And a very, very different sound from the DT1350. Lush compared to analytical.
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 29, 2012 12:28:26 GMT
Interesting in that the biggest difference seems to be the cups. So the improvements in sound come from the fact that the plastic back of the HD25 resonates more than the Amperior which is aluminium. Now that makes me wonder whether it's possible to get that aluminium back on to the HD25 and so cut those resonances. The fit looks exactly the same. I wonder what a pair of cups would cost since it could be worth pulling an HD25 apart? In fact, a good many closed headphones could be improved this way since they aren't always designed with an optimal cup. Some manufacturers (and listeners) like the resonances there and would feel that the headphone has become slighy 'deader' sounding with less back reflections present. Mike did this with an AT W1000 headphone where he applied bitumen to the back in order to hold resonances down. That bitumen thing sounds a lot more promising than swapping cups.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2012 12:30:46 GMT
This headphone retails for a few euros north of the price the DT1350 sells for. Is it really worth 300 euros? If they lower the prices I'll take note... Based on the sound it's well worth the money. And a very, very different sound from the DT1350. Lush compared to analytical. That's exactly how the HD25 compares as well, Dale. The biggest difference between HD25 and the Amperior seems to be a different cable (steel on the HD25) and those cups. On the HD25 it is plastic and has little struts to try to cut 'sympathetic vibrations' and the Amperior is aluminium (say that in your accent - it always makes me smile when I hear an American say that!!) and the inside of the cups are ridged. Because of that, it measures quite differently to the HD25. I agree that the DT1350 sounds a lot more 'clinical' in comparison. Have you got an HD25 to compare it with? I'm thinking about pulling one of mine apart and trying to fit those cups. The other thing is that it can be difficult to plug into an Ipad since the plug is a bit fat to fit into the recess, so it would need a little patch lead. Your reviews are really bad for me, Dale. A new M50 followed by an Amperior?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2012 21:50:42 GMT
Mike sent me some bitumen tape to do this with my AT W1000 and it made a very worthwhile improvement.
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 29, 2012 23:38:19 GMT
That's exactly how the HD25 compares as well, Dale. The biggest difference between HD25 and the Amperior seems to be a different cable (steel on the HD25) and those cups. On the HD25 it is plastic and has little struts to try to cut 'sympathetic vibrations' and the Amperior is aluminium (say that in your accent - it always makes me smile when I hear an American say that!!) and the inside of the cups are ridged. Because of that, it measures quite differently to the HD25. I agree that the DT1350 sounds a lot more 'clinical' in comparison. Have you got an HD25 to compare it with? I'm thinking about pulling one of mine apart and trying to fit those cups. The other thing is that it can be difficult to plug into an Ipad since the plug is a bit fat to fit into the recess, so it would need a little patch lead. Your reviews are really bad for me, Dale. A new M50 followed by an Amperior? I am bad, not bad to the bone as in the famous song, just sneaky bad. Us Americans are such slobs - we say 'missal' instead of 'missile', leading a well educated person to think a blessing is about to descend onto their house rather than the more deadly thing. Pretty sneaky, eh? The new Amperior has a reasonable dongle coming from the earcup, but then they supply an extremely thin cable for the extension. I pulled the extension off of my Philips M1 and put that onto the Amperior. Much better - the Philips will never know the difference. I've never had an HD25 or any in that series, so don't have any idea about that. But compared to the ATH M50, you don't get quite that strong of deep bass impact - the M50 is very rare in increasing bass in the lowest register. But you do get much better mids and treble. In my first day, my wife got her first impression, the salesman at the Tumi store we visited got his impression, and ditto a hotel employee. Normally I would not expect an audiophile-intelligent response from any of them, but the response I got from all of them was the same, oddly enough: "I can hear everything clearly, the bass, the midrange and voices and instruments, and there's a clarity and sparkle like I haven't heard before." So I think the Amperior at $350 USD compared to a M50 for $150 USD, is a much better value than the M50. I'm not only enjoying it a lot, but I'm not fighting any colorations, suckouts, over-emphases, or anything. Granted it doesn't have that upper harmonic detail of the HD800, but everything else (and better because the treble is never irritating) sounds as good. And the comfort and portability is amazing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2012 7:29:14 GMT
The Amperior sounds quite a bit superior from what you're saying!! I am curious how it varies from the HD25 though. I'd say that the HD25 isn't 'toppy' either but that tends to be a feature of 'pro' type headphones so that they're not fatiguing long term. However, the clamping force of the HD25 means I don't tend to wear them for long. I think the Amperior is less forceful.
The HD25 is an old standard industry type headphone often used by sound engineers on location. It's so tough and plays very loud, cleanly.
Those cups on the Amperior are more expensive but I think it may have the same drivers as the HD25 but a better cable as well. The HD25 cable is steel I think!! No copper. It also has a right angled plug that I'm not that keen on unless it's used portable.
I imagine that the Amperior will sound really good loud - as the HD25 does. It's not one of those analytical headphones that seem to focus better low down in volume.
That's what I really like about the Denon D2000. It sounds OK down at low volumes but as you turn up, it snaps the bass tight into focus and sounds balanced. As you go louder, it just scales up and doesn't turn nasty as so many headphones can. It's one of the most 'organic' headphones I've heard actually. It's similar to the D990 but sounds bigger at high volume. The DT990 is slightly more lightweight sounding, so sounds more open but I prefer the D2000 for its scale and weight.
That Bitumen trick is a great one, Alex. I couldn't believe when Mike opened the W1000 up and stuck it in. No respect for the cost of the headphone!!! I suspect that it would work well on the old BBC favourite - the DT770, but it may become a bit dry with the reflections cut down!! I think Mike may have tried that one as well.
The trouble is, with low cost headphones, those reflections are often capitalised on as part of their signature so taking the reflections away can leave you with an odd headphone. Dr Dre is one that comes to mind here!! Massive phat bass due to strong cup reflections. As you know, I have a kind of 'copy' of the Dre's (Fanny Wangs) but they have less bass amounts than the Dre's and retail at way less. (Although I was given mine by fanny himself ;D)
I'm surprised that AT left any strong reflections from the cups in one of their premium headphones. Another one from AT I've been looking for for a long time is the ES10w. They sell way too high in the UK imo so I've been waiting for them to go out of production to try and get one cheaper! That also uses cup reflections as part of its signature.
In fact a good comparison for a rich guy could be the HD25, Amperior and the ES10w. All have different materials for cups. (Plastic, aluminium and wood)
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 30, 2012 8:07:46 GMT
Seems to me the Amperior clamping is light. Certainly well below average, but I guess it's down to what's average. My original DT1350 clamped much more, but the newer 1350 about the same as the Amperior. But the Amperior pads spread the pressure better than the 1350. The original Amperior extension (attached to the pigtail/dongle) is very thin and has the right angled miniplug. So I replaced that with the much better Philips M1 cable.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2012 9:13:44 GMT
The treble extension is another thing I find difficult to judge. The Fanny Wang headphones aren't very extended in comparison to the HD25 but because of that, other things in the sound do actually appear.
I find that I need to play the HD25 and the FW at different volumes in order to get the best out of them.
When you mentioned treble extension, I compared my two on ear headphones and found that the HD25 does sound more 'open' than the FW but the FW produces drum 'tone' much better. Where you hear the attack on the HD25, you tend to lose the 'depth' of sound which the FW produce well.
Also after wearing the FW for a period of time and swapping to the HD25, you feel that the Senns are actually quite harsh and need to turn the volume down.
It's funny how the ears adapt easily. I know you tried some headphones that you felt had no extension but my FW's come to life further up in volume and suddenly, cymbals have a ringing 'tone' rather than a tinny splash!!
I had a look for some Amperior pads today. No luck. I may try adapting an HD25 when parts become available!! (or damp the back with bitumen)
Sounds like you have a cracker there, Dale.
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joethearachnid
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Post by joethearachnid on Aug 30, 2012 10:15:35 GMT
The amperior actually has a different driver from the HD 25 - the HD 25 is 70ohm but the Amperior is far lower (18ohm) and therefore should be easier to drive, though I never really found the HD 25 to be that insensitive. I also heard in an interview that Sennheiser voiced the Amperior when they were designing it to make it as close to the HD 25 sound as possible. I don't actually know what effect using the HD 25 drivers with the Amperior's cups might have, since the drivers could actually sound rather different out if their enclosures. Here's the interview (sorry about the Jude : -JoetheArachnid
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 30, 2012 11:28:43 GMT
And there is Jude - an interesting little man. BTW, although the interview mentions the "HD25 Amperior" a couple of times, the box and manual have no such mention or association. In fact, the only mention of HD25 anywhere is to distance it from the Amperior.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2012 11:47:41 GMT
;D Thanks Joe. Is Jude still making those videos. I noticed that Itunes has stopped so I wondered whether he's having a break or whether it's gone the same route as the audio podcasts!! Interesting in that the guy says it should sound the same as an HD25 but is more sensitive. I didn't realise that it had such a low impedance, so it's aimed more at the portable market - direct from Ipods etc. I notice that they're really making a big thing about the inside of the cups as well. It'll be a bugger for picking up noise at that impedance (18 ohms) so if you put it into an amp, it'll need to be a very quiet one!! Someone who knows me spotted me on here talking about Dre and my beloved Fanny Wang and he's sending me a cheap Dre copy to try and review. A 'Noontec Zoro Professional Headphone' whatever that is. Never heard of them. He reckons it's better than the Dre's and is down at 16 ohms impedance. Jesus, any lower and it'll pick up my heartbeat. I must admit, the Amperior is one I think I'll try to find on demo somewhere and compare to HD25. At that impedance and price, I don't think the pro market will jump over from the HD25.
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Post by dalethorn on Aug 30, 2012 12:55:05 GMT
My contacts say the Noontec Zoro is a goodie, and a possible Dre-killer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2012 14:48:48 GMT
My contacts say the Noontec Zoro is a goodie, and a possible Dre-killer. That's what this guy is saying. I'm wary of these tests though since I had the Wangs sent and they were hoping to say something along the lines of .... 'as recommended by' ...... and I didn't like that. What on earth Dre was thinking when he said, 'this is how my music should sound', is mad. If you do a mix in a studio and then need a heavily bass biased headphone to make it sound the way he meant, then what the hell is he doing in the studio? Producing a mouse mix so that the Dr Dre's sound good? A surprising statement from someone who works in studios and just aimed at unintelligent, easily led kids. The Dre's aren't at all good so it should be easy to be better. The Fanny Wangs are an improvement on them just by not being as bassy. I've never heard of the Zorro but it's retailing at a very low price in the UK. I looked up it's FR and it has a deep dip at about 4 Khz so it's just below the 'ear resonance' of 7 Khz. It's rising from the dip at 7 Khz so it may be a bit dull up top (a bit like the Dre's) - we'll see. As I said earlier, I'm not sure that 'dull' is so bad since it really does bring out the tone of drums, but we're really quite geared up to hear as high as we can on headphones. I guess I'm used to a slope off at the top or I just adapt easier than many and can live with it quite easily. I'll do a write up on here when I get it but I'm not holding my breath if it's yet another clone. The Wangs are OK. Entertaining and good bass but there's not really a lot of detail with them until you go to life volume!! Then they work. The Dre's don't work even up at life volume. The bass just pummels the back of your head.
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