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Post by krisno on Nov 15, 2007 22:25:01 GMT
Hi people.
This is my first post.
I am on the verge to order the AKG K 701. I am going to use them on my computer via Creative soundcard(the best analog output from a laptop to a decent price).
But I need a amp for this. I have read at head-fi.org, but now the page is down. I have read that so many recommended Heed Canamp.
Heed Canamp is made in Hungary, and I really want something that is easy to sell back in Scandinavia if I don't like it.
The X-can V3 with the little pinkie PSU , is it really that bad sounding on the AKG's that I must not get it? I have never heard tube sound, but I guess that tubes on headphone will be nice. Kinda to 'cover up' on the harshness of the PC mp3 files etc.
Does X-Can V3 work on AKG, or not at all really? I listned to the sennheisers HD 650 vs AKG , and I am never ever going to get those. Way to warm headphones, and they really clamp your head to death.
I tried to reach the owner of rockgrotto to ask about the little pinkie, is this a worthwhile upgrade for the Xcan's? I almost orderd the X-PSU but i rather save the money.
I am not a hifi expert. I just want something to sound nice, and i like the looks and 'wear' of the AKG's.
So , the X-Can's or heed? or do they sound quite similar, i rather go for the well known brand(re-sell value).
yours.
Kris
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Nov 16, 2007 1:31:11 GMT
Kris, it has been a long time since I had a Heed CanAmp. However when I had it I felt it had a very good synergy w/ the K701. Also at the time there was an special price of about $350 including delivery. Nowadays the manufacturer is not offering the same deal on the Heed. In addition the US Dollar has taken a dive as compared w/ many other currencies, so for me the "value" is not as good as it once was. Another thing to consider is what the market is in your area and how hard or easy it would be to sell a particular piece of Hi-Fi gear. You also need to know if the gear you are getting is the best for what you like to listen too. I would not select the HD600/650 for rock, instead I would go for Grado. On the other hand the K701 can play rock as well as Jazz and Classical something most cans can not (the ATH W1000 is capable of said duality). Because of your question I fired up my X-Can V3 and plugged my K701, they make beautiful music together. Be advised my X-Can V3 has the PinkFloyd Mods as well as a Little Pinkie. Both of them are worth every penny I spent. I also have a K501 and it sounds very good out of the X-Can V3, although in my opinion the K501 sounds better out of the X-Can V2. Before I forget, the X-Can V1 or V2 or V3 are hybrids. The gain is via tube and the output is solid state. Now that I mention the X-Can V2 I should say that I prefer it over the X-Can V3. This is funny because the V3 is more detailed, cleaner, better soundstage, extends higher into the treble, and it is more refined. So why do I prefer the X-Can V2 (w/ the PinkFloyd Mods and a Little Pinkie) over the X-Can V3? Simple, fun factor. The V2 gets my foot tapping more than the V3. I keep both because sometimes I do not want my foot tapping, instead I want to listen to beautiful music. ;D A fourth amp to consider, specially if you get the ATH W1000 would be the Green Solo. They have great synergy together. So, being where you are the X-Can V3 may be your best choice. I would recommend you get the PinkFloyd Mods and a Little Pinkie. This combo will sound great but it will be more money than the Heed CanAmp. Regardless I think either will bring a big smile to your face and should keep it there for a very long time. Before I forget, more cans will sound great out of the X-Can V3 than the Heed CanAmp. With the K701 its a much closer race specially when you consider cost. I hope you are planning on using the amps I have mentioned stationary. I mention this because you are talking about using a laptop as your source. Does your laptop have an optical or a coaxial output? If yes then you might consider an used X-Dac or an X-Dac V3.
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Post by krisno on Nov 16, 2007 8:27:37 GMT
Thank you so much for such an extensive reply.
I am still awaiting email from this 'Mike' guy on the little pinkie. I am getting that one for the X-can V3. I presume it can stand on the floor, so I don't get any cable clutter?
I will use it on analog out on laptop first, if I enjoy it, i might get the X-Dac (USED!). But if I do, I might regret on not getting the X-PSU, as having 2 little pinkie's on the floor, is a little too much maybe. One for the Dac and one for the X-can.
The X-Can is a Class A rated at stereophile. It is a brand. I can get the Heed Canamp from Finland for £388. It will be cheaper than X-Can + little pinkie, buy quite a margin. But well, this is a brand, and after all I might like the tubes. Thank you for replying on 701 + XCan, and you say they play beatufiully. So that will be enough for me, for now.
I was considering the WooAudio W6. Have you seen it? IT's not expensive now that the dollar is soo low, its a pure tube amp. But maybe it's too warm. IT's big also.
Again. Excellent reply, and thank you!!
(Btw, is it as big a gain on sound for using little pinkie/Xpsu with the DAC as with the X-Can's.... )?
Also, now that the Heed 'hype' has cooled a little, did it end up with the Hungarian's overproducing the Heed, making it cheaper? The reason why I am very skeptical is because I lived many years in Poland, and everything down there is plain crap. Bad work, bad quality, etc.. I am scared that the Heed is the same way.
Kristian
P.S. I spoke to AKG engineers, they said that 'break-in' is not something they where able to measure on the AKG transducers. They didn't believe in break-in, as there was no measurable difference...
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Post by fanboi on Nov 16, 2007 8:32:30 GMT
Kris, I do not know how this compares price-wise with the Creative you are considering, www.terratecproducer.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=6and I have not heard it. However, the front looks very similar to the patch panel on my Terratec DMX 6 Fire and that drives the AKG K701 very well without any further amplification. The other specifications are virtually the same as what I have, so I am guessing it is a USB version of that.
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Post by krisno on Nov 16, 2007 8:58:27 GMT
But dear mrarroyo
1) Where is the owner of Rockgrotto, i need to discuss little pinkie price with him
2) The tubes in the X-Can v3, do they often 'go wrong', stop functioning , etc? I don't know anything about tubes, and I won't swap them either, but the Jan's, they are good enough? I have never used tubes, and I am little worried that 'tubes' are not hassle free, with lots of extra annoyances, like 'gone microphinic' etc?
3) The little pinkie, will the massive current increase kill the life time of the tubes?
Thanks for all replies guys. The X-can's is allready in the order if I just get a reply from my salesman.
K
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2007 9:28:51 GMT
Krisno Please click on the link below, and you will see full information ,including photos, pricing including post and pack to different areas, as well as a "Contact" link. www.rock-grotto.co.uk/pinkiepsu.htmValves are normally very reliable for many hundred hours of use. They do not normally just stop working, however they may slowly deteriorate after many hundreds of hours of use.Microphonic valves are relatively rare. Other members will be able to offer advice as to the best sounding, and most reliable makes. An amplifier will not draw any more current from a more substantial transformer of the same voltage rating,so there is no detrimental effect on longevity of the valves. The lower impedance of a higher current rated transformer will usually improve the sound quality of an amplifer. The Little Pinkie V3 also has inbuilt protective mechanisms, and is a very reliable , high quality supply. It also has other features that reduce the effect of mains borne, and radio frequency interference. This helps to further improve sound quality. SandyK
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Post by DennyL on Nov 16, 2007 10:20:09 GMT
2) The tubes in the X-Can v3, do they often 'go wrong', stop functioning , etc? I don't know anything about tubes, and I won't swap them either, but the Jan's, they are good enough? I have never used tubes, and I am little worried that 'tubes' are not hassle free, with lots of extra annoyances, like 'gone microphinic' etc? K Remember that until transistors started to be used in the 1960s all radios had at least four tubes, and televisions had many more. They would work for years of daily domestic use without giving any problems. A radio that's on ten hours a day is clocking up three and a half thousand hours a year. It is anly because tubes have a slight novelty value hear that noobys worry about them. They need no maintenance and they work for thousands of hours without attention. The only difference between them and solid state, apart from sound quality, is that they get hot and they need a few seconds to warm up and start working when they are switched on.
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Post by krisno on Nov 16, 2007 16:39:48 GMT
Has anyone here got a lightly used 'latest' version of the little pinkie they want to sell me?
Btw, these mod's. I am never going to mod this myself, but are the differences really that great?
Last question. I read all this reviews, and almost every amp, people on forums say 'this is such great value'. Everybody says that about every product. So then, what is then expensive? I have never seen a amp regarded as expensive. Would that be Headroom? I thought of getting the Headroom Desktop 'maxed out' for the AKG's, but expensive. Or would it be Naim Headline?? etc?
Is Headroom any good btw? I am afraid it will be too analytical. Headphone listening is a very intens thing you know. Tubes might do the trick....
Has the owner and seller of the 'little pinkie's gone underground? ;D I can't reach him.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Nov 16, 2007 18:58:56 GMT
HeadRoom has an excellent customer service and their gear is well made. IMO they are a little pricey but the equipment they make lasts a very long time. At the end of the day you will have to decide if the sound produce is worth the money being asked.
If you are just getting into the hobby why don't you consider an iBasso D1. It retails for $209 w/o cables plus S&H. The iBasso D1 is an Amp/DAC and it sounds very nice, it has the op-amps on sockets which will allow you to mod the sound by swapping the op-amps.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2007 20:47:24 GMT
"Has the owner and seller of the 'little pinkie's gone underground? I can't reach him."
Mike is sorting out a few personal problems at the moment. Please be patient. SandyK
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 17, 2007 13:29:36 GMT
I am still awaiting email from this 'Mike' guy on the little pinkie. That Mike guy will e-mail you this afternoon, he's been busy off with his mind on other things for a while...... he's back now though and ready for action
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Nov 17, 2007 14:26:05 GMT
I am still awaiting email from this 'Mike' guy on the little pinkie. That Mike guy will e-mail you this afternoon, he's been busy off with his mind on other things for a while...... he's back now though and ready for action You and the Rickster ready for action! Man we are fuc__d.
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Post by krisno on Nov 17, 2007 15:55:49 GMT
mrarroyo
I am ordering the little pinkie, do you have yours at et 'floor'. Partly getting this , is little cable clutter at det desk.
You say Headroom is good.... is it the best solid state almost? The Desktop 'maxed out' with this little DAC built in, is it better than the MF X-Dac V3?
Have you tried Headroom, they have more experience with headphones than anyone else i believe...
But do they sound warm and good + you get all the details. It's quite nice, but with taxes, it's not cheap. They are not willing to put down the price on it.
By the way, the little pinkie, does it work with Headroom gear also, so I dont need that $400 extra PSU on the desk?
I presume it would......?
Kris
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Nov 17, 2007 16:13:28 GMT
I have listened to HeadRoom gear. I like their dacs but I am not a big fan of their amps (Micro and Desktop Line is all I have llistened too). You being in Europe I would recommend you stay w/ an European manufacturer, just in case you ever need to have warranty work done. BTW the power supplies are not interchangeble amongs the MF and HeadRoom. As far as the HeadRoom Max Dac versus the MF X-Dac V3 I do not know since I have not compared them side by side. Be advised that a single ended HeadRoom Max Dac w/ a Max Amp in a Desktop enclosure and w/ the matching PSU will set you back $1,945 plus VAT and S&H. In the States you can purchase a demo X-DAC for $482. I love my X-Can V3 w/ the Pinkfloyd Mods and the Little Pinkie. However each listener should have an opportunity to hear the gear before spending good money on it. We all hear differently and just because I like it does not mean you will. Another European amp that is getting rave reviews is by Rudistor. They are pricey but many are praising its sound. Please do not discount the Green Solo, I have one and it is a very nice sounding unit, looks great, takes up little space and it is reasonably priced. Lastly another manufacturer to consider would be Meier out of Germany. Specifically the Meir Corda Opera: www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/If you are asking me which amp is the biggest bang for the buck I would say an used X-Can V2. In the USA it can be purchased used from $140 to $190 including S&H. I would then get the PinkFloyd Kit or have Mike mod it for you at about 50 BP or 100 BP respectively. Next get a better PSU like the Little Pinkie, here if you want to save a few bucks until you have had a chance to truly evaluate the PinkFloyd Modded X-Can V2 look into a heftier wall wart. Mike (PinkFloyd) could point you in the right direction.
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Post by krisno on Nov 17, 2007 16:16:09 GMT
This will beat everything... www.headphone.com/products/headphone-amps/the-desktop-line/headroom-balanced-desktop-amp.phpRun it with balanced modded AKG K 701 with fat-pipe balanced cable Stepped attenuater(100 times better than the crap alps which sits in MF and Heed Get the included 'Home' edidtion of the balanced DAC, utilizing the best DAC chip from Cirrus logic and Burr Brown op amps. With connections for optical/rca spdif + usb. Get the Astrodyne PSU and you dont need the extranl PSU on the desk. Balanced sound is really good on headphones according to many statements. This the ultimate thing really, and takes up small size, a full 4 in 1 product(also a pre amp). Somebody tried these things? Tehy should, then Heed can go back to bed. Headroom and AKG probably is a very very good match.
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Post by krisno on Nov 17, 2007 19:14:14 GMT
Can you thrust Stereophile
Stereophile rates the X-Can V3 as CLASS A, meaning top of their list. But they list so much on their recommended list these days, in the old days, 'the recommended list' only had like 4-10 items. Now its 100...
Is it all just lies??
Second question, has tuberolling anything to say on the X-Can v3. I am pasting a comment from the creator of the MF X-can V3:
""Reliability is what's important to us -- we've only had about 2% tube failure ever on our tube products. In my opinion, [tube rolling] is all BS anyway. Providing the tube is roughly the right gain group, roughly the right current group, it should work -- if it doesn't, you haven't designed your circuit properly. I think things should be consistent and predictable, which is why we went back to first principles in designing the V3.""
Thrid question.... the signal cable between the X-DAC v3 and X-Can V3, how expensive should this be? Nordost silver interconnects?? :-) or can you just use cheap stuff?
Thanks for all replies,,,
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Nov 17, 2007 19:39:58 GMT
krisno, get the HeadRoom and be Happy. The MF is junk and the Heed is even more junk! Happy? are you happy? I am writing what you want to hear so you should be. Oh, and do get the attenuator.
Stereophile, shit don't trust anything they write.
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Post by krisno on Nov 17, 2007 20:37:21 GMT
I am happy, I am getting the MF. I was asking some questions and you didn't answer any of them in that last post of yours. I think the Headroom balanced version is nice yes... High quality build, high quality 'volume controll'. A stepped attenuator is alot better than a classic alps. The problem with these 'alps' is that, if you dont have volume above 1/4, you can get some very nasty problems with music alot lower on one channel compared to the other one. Also, alps degrade the sound somewhat. Stepped attentuator don't. The Heed is probalbly that of the least quality yes... It probably is very analytical, as there is almost no transistors there at all. But that doesn't make it musical. Classe is high quality stuff, they use extremly many small and fast transitors. Krell also. Krell is very nice sound. You should mind your blood pressure btw.. relax.
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Post by dw6928 on Nov 17, 2007 20:38:25 GMT
Did I read your post correctly Miguel that the Heed is absolute junk? Must be a very different amp than the Heed I have had since it was introduced (and used with 701s).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2007 20:57:26 GMT
dw6928 Miguel likes the Heed. He is just trying to say that Stereophile is like some other forums, biased towards their advertisers/sponsors.
"The Heed is probably that of the least quality yes... It probably is very analytical, as there is almost no transistors there at all. But that doesn't make it musical. Classe is high quality stuff, they use extremly many small and fast transitors. Krell also. Krell is very nice sound"
Krisno A lot comes down to personal preference with headphone sound, as indeed it does with sound from loudspeakers. Just because a product has many small and extremely fast transistors doesn't necessarily mean it will sound better. It's all in the way it is implemented. Personally, I think Classe and Krell are overhyped and overexpensive. I hav been able to listen to and compare an AU$6,000 Krell preamplifier with a friend's and my preamplifier, and the Krell was very good, but left behind in every aspect except looks. I use a DACT2 attenuator, and they are very good indeed, but I think what you said about the matching of levels between channels with the Alps control, is not representative of most Alps potentiometers. SandyK
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leo
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Post by leo on Nov 17, 2007 21:53:27 GMT
Did I read your post correctly Miguel that the Heed is absolute junk? Must be a very different amp than the Heed I have had since it was introduced (and used with 701s). No, read it again he was not being serious The Heed isn't junk nor is it stunning, its decent for the price
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leo
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Post by leo on Nov 17, 2007 21:59:02 GMT
Personally, I think Classe and Krell are overhyped and overexpensive. I hav been able to listen to and compare an AU$6,000 Krell preamplifier with a friend's and my preamplifier, and the Krell was very good, but left behind in every aspect except looks. I use a DACT2 attenuator, and they are very good indeed, but I think what you said about the matching of levels between channels with the Alps control, is not representative of most Alps potentiometers. SandyK The beauty with diy eh Alex
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Post by krisno on Nov 17, 2007 22:05:44 GMT
Descent for its price is maybe true.
It comes down to personal preferences, but I have met very few who say they don't like the Krell's.
Everything in hifi is overpriced, everything. Except maybe this transformator from Mike. Those things are expensive no matter where you buy it.
I was just saying that having transistors in the signal path often is not a negative thing, if you want good sound. I am sure that audio through a classe amp sounds better than music straight from a DAC with a hacked in amplifier. Look at the benchmark 1 DAC. It's not musical at all, just hard hard hard and very analytic sound.
Therfor, looking at such few components innside the heed, it looks not cheap at all. But well, it's sound that matters.
But depends on what you want, hear details? or have a nice musical experience?... I dunno.
But I still never got the answer, the conclusion on page 117 on the head-fi.org, was it that the heed is just perfect, or did the conclusion end up otherwise?
I find it very hard to believe that a eastern european maker with 2 'brothers' involved, are making better sounding products cheaper, than the british and american heavy weights. But maybe I am wrong. I have lived in eastern europe for many years, and 95% of what they do down here is utterly crap.
Kris
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Nov 17, 2007 22:18:05 GMT
krisno, have you heard the Heed CanAmp?
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Post by krisno on Nov 17, 2007 22:58:56 GMT
Never... don't think I will either. I am just saying why I am not touching it, even though I never heard it. Secondly, it seems like all those that had the Heed, and used the Heed, now, 6-12months after the first hype, is not using it anymore. But many people still use the X-Can's? So well... i don't know. but I have seen forum hype before, like forums regarding the stockmarket. On every forum there are a couple of guru's with experience. Everyone follows them like well yes, to borrow the phrase, as the coming of jesus. They say something, and then everybody runs to buy, and 1 out 10 hear the difference . How many who bought the Heed 1 year ago still has it as their main amp of choice? Headphone ilstening is a very intens thing, so the sound needs to be 'nice' not analytical if you ask me. I don't know what the Heed does, but the lack of any transistors and a eastern europe made power transformator with a non removable power cord(reminds of ikea) scared me. So well, I will never get the Heed. Maybe version 2 if it comes out as a super version.
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