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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 10, 2013 21:57:06 GMT
We love you and we understand Ian.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 10, 2013 21:59:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 22:20:29 GMT
Don't worry Ian, I've a full head of thick hair too and am a reet 'airy barsteward to boot. Hmmmm, smooth plastic headbands, love 'em
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Mar 10, 2013 23:42:28 GMT
Good grief, am I the only one with hair? Better shave it off quick, I'm not normal. I still have pubic hair but the top of my head has wilted..... some say (and I agree) that baldness is a sign of intelligence / evolution..... one thing is for sure, it saves on haircuts Does that mean that, "Shaving ones head" is a sign of artificial intelligence?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 23:54:51 GMT
I still have pubic hair but the top of my head has wilted..... some say (and I agree) that baldness is a sign of intelligence / evolution..... one thing is for sure, it saves on haircuts Does that mean that, "Shaving ones head" is a sign of artificial intelligence? Some of us wore ours out on the bedhead.
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Mar 11, 2013 1:26:22 GMT
Does that mean that, "Shaving ones head" is a sign of artificial intelligence? Some of us wore ours out on the bedhead. Don't you think it would have been better if another person was with you??
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2013 2:22:05 GMT
Some of us wore ours out on the bedhead. Don't you think it would have been better if another person was with you?? Allan You are forgetting that I have been married twice. Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 11, 2013 20:00:50 GMT
Hi Ian, The filter and pads arrived today, cheers I must be getting dafter in my old age, I didn't realise that the filter was inline with the source and BEFORE the amp? I had assumed that you would plug the filter into the head-out of your amp and then plug the headphones into the filter. So, this is basically only useable if you have a source with RCA outputs and an amp with RCA inputs? What a bummer, I thought it would be inline with the headphones themselves Whatever you rig the filter up to it will pretty much be a dedicated T50RP rig and anytime you want to listen to another pair of headphones you'll have to physically remove the source to amp inline filter. Essentially, all this is is a preset tone control "tuned" to boost and reduce certain frequencies.... a graphic equaliser would do the same job BUT you'd be able to tune it to your own preferences AND use it with any headphone on the market. The most simple type of inline tone control, something like the X-TONE ( www.musicalfidelity.com/uploads/manuals/English/xtone.pdf ) would, pretty much, do the same job.... something a little more complex would do the same job (http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Behringer-FBQ800-MINIFBQ-Graphic-EQ/6RN) and something a little more elaborate would also do the same job (http://www.studiospares.com/equalisers/behringer-ultragraph-fbq6200-pro-graphic-eq/invt/370420/?source=215_74&gclid=CJynxL2z9bUCFUvHtAodWGIAoA) None of them "expensive" but, unlike Fran's filter you'd be able to use any headphones with them OR be able to switch the equaliser out of the path. I HONESTLY thought this was a "headphone side" filter (like the Superlux one)........ all this is is an inline equaliser which has been "set" to a pre-determined response..... it is nothing else than that. I don't mind equalisers but would rather not have them in the signal path if they can be avoided..... the T50RP obviously "needs" boosting / reducing at certain frequencies and Fran's preset equaliser fits the bill BUT why not just fit a "user programmable" dedicated equaliser in-line? At least, with one of those, you could tailor the frequencies of ANY headphone AND you could switch it out of the path if you so desired. I bet you a pork pie and a beer that you'd find your own sweet spot with an inline graphic equaliser in SECONDS Of course, this is "Hi-Fi" and the word "equaliser" is a nasty that should be avoided..... erm, why??!! So many complaints of "dips in the upper midrange", "veiled highs", "not enough bass" etc. etc. etc....... well, the solution is simple, buy a decent equalizer OR spend the next 50 years searching for the "perfect" pair of headphones! I won't be trying the "filter" Ian, I can strap on my Ultragraph FBQ 6200(£125)and tune any pair of headphones to my own taste..... it does the same job BUT is not limited to one pair of headphones By the way, I don't use the FBQ6200 on a day to day basis but maybe I should! The Shure pads make one HELL of an improvement to the bass response, they also make the mids easier to focus on..... treble is a bit down but nothing that a bit of plasticine and sheep's wool can't fix The old addage of "you can't make a silk purse out of a Sow's ear" is not necessarily true...... get yourself a good equaliser BUT don't tell anybody! The minute you mention "equaliser" your "audiophool" credibility rating takes a nose dive to the floor I'll get the filter back to you on Wednesday Ian, thanks for the test drive..... pity I didn't read about it first, would have saved it a journey. All the best, Mike.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 11, 2013 20:13:39 GMT
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 11, 2013 20:15:52 GMT
Mike, switch the filter out and it goes back to normal. You don't have to take it out of line.
No point in discussing the filter 'cos Frans isn't here and I can't speak for him.
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Post by gommer on Mar 11, 2013 21:31:20 GMT
Hi Mike,
I don't mean to stir things up and I'm not pro, nor con anything, but Frans did discuss both analog and digital equalizers in his paper and explained why he started this tone control. Main reason: digital EQ introduces nasties, while analog GEQ's never filter the 'right' frequencies. This tone control has a low and high boost or attenuation, in addition with a notch filter. All three sections can have precisely set frequency, gain and (for the notch) bandwith. So in this respect, I think there are good grounds for it's existence.
Now, whether the gain of the specialized tuning outweigh the cons of added active parts in the chain is a different matter, difficult to asses without listening to the result. And you have the chance of listening to this right under your nose...
I personally enjoy my HD-661's more when activating some digital EQ-ing on my phone. Most material becomes much more enjoyable, while some becomes unbearable.
Marc
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 12, 2013 9:49:13 GMT
Hi Mike, And you have the chance of listening to this right under your nose... Yeh, I know...... I'm a dick..... I'll fire it up tonight and have a good listen
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 12, 2013 19:25:33 GMT
What can I say...... Fran's filter is SUPERB! I've had it in circuit for a couple of hours now and, Ian, you're right, it's like an energiser A bit more sparkle and a clearer insight, awesome stuff! I would have liked a "touch" more bass BUT that's me being picky.... these are obviously not bass meisters and major on an even response with the filter in situ..... lovely sounding pair of 'phones though and hopefully more to come with the plasticine and sheep's wool mods. I'll get the filter back to you tomorrow Ian, thanks for giving me the chance to audition it Mike.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 12, 2013 19:39:15 GMT
It extends the highs to somewhere in the region of 21 or 22KHz, Mike. It also targets a 6db dip at about 4KHz in a more 'narrow' way than a normal (Cheapish) EQ. I'm not certain why, but is also boosts sub-bass down to 10 Hz. I never asked Frans if he did that on purpose or whether the filter did it by accident!!
It's also designed (and measured) to work in conjunction with the pads I sent you.
Watch out with the padding and plasticine though, Mike. If you are finding the bass less than you'd like, then you won't like it 'flatter' in response. I know that Frans was concerned that I might not like a flat (ish) headphone. It measures very flat - I had it checked and your first impression is - where's the bass, but on any recordings with deep bass, it just appears and it's really balanced with the rest of the sounds. It doesn't smack hard unless it's there.
I have two versions - one with no padding inside or plasticine and one with padding and plasticine that measure incredibly flat.
Bad recordings sound shite on them.
On bad recordings, I switch the filter off so there's less extension and you hear less nasties up there. With a good recording, it just takes off.
The filter isn't just an 'EQ' as in general EQ's that you can buy. It targets a narrower band and theoretically introduces less nasties than a digital EQ. The only thing is, I don't feel comfortable discussing the filter without really being able to describe why Frans did it this way. I do actually know, but don't want to get into discussions over theory etc, when my ears and the guys at work have substantiated what he's done. Of course, they're techies too but they were very impressed to say the least.
I don't think Frans is selling the filters. The one you have there is a prototype where he worked for a long time on measuring and getting the response on my T40 to go as flat as possible. It works with those pads but he's also been working on another with DT770 pads. I think it was something to do with that 6dB dip which he found was less with the Beyer pads. I'm happy with the Shure pads and filter though.
For other headphones, you just switch it out on the front. I'm thinking of sticking to the T40 and T50 tbh and also thinking of fitting the filter inside the amp. For me, it's pretty natural and doesn't have that edgy 'glare' that you often get from other headphones.
Try Yello's Touch on them!!!! Say hello from Yello to the Bass!!!!
I know it's hard to get your 'hi fi' head around the idea of having an in line active filter, but as you said last night - EQ's work really well. Sometimes, there is an advantage to having one in line. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages and that was what I was getting at earlier in this thread.
In this case, for £130 and a few tweaks, it's worth it imo and you end up with a really accurate headphone that seems to outstrip some more expensive alternatives. That's why I was interested in what Israel and Mick said about their orthos in comparison.
Be careful of dampening too much Mike - they'll start to sound too restrained for your tastes.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 12, 2013 20:30:27 GMT
We haven't discussed the COST of "A" building the filter yourself or "B" getting a ready made one from Frans. The £130 you mention buys us (in the UK) the stock T50RP headphones and that's it....... I had a quick look under the bonnet of the filter and reckon you are almost DOUBLING the cost of the headphones in PARTS alone. Factor in your TIME putting it all together, sourcing the parts etc. etc. and these may turn out to be a VERY expensive pair of headphones. You are fortunate to have Frans make one for you but if he is going to sell these then he will have to "charge" the going rate for his services and there is no way he could do a package like that for under £100 (taking into account he is a one man band operating out of Europe)..... the parts list ALONE will cost a small fortune for a HOBBYIST! "£130" and a few "tweaks" may turn out to be a LOT more Ian Mike.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 12, 2013 20:38:04 GMT
He's not selling them, Mike. £130 for the filter alone? What's he put in there? He never mentioned anything expensive to me. Is it 3 opamps and the board he had made plus resistors and capacitors and that funny EU plug and power supply!! It's comparable to getting an amp with an expensive power supply I guess. So if the whole thing comes out at £230, it's less than an HD650 and imo it's better. The modders over in USA are charging a lot for them. Again, they're individually measured in the case of a guy called LFF. I've spoken to him and then there's another one .... something Dogs who makes a bassier version I believe. It's quite an industry over there which does have the effect of making people a bit suspicious.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 12, 2013 20:39:25 GMT
Let's work this out. £130 for the headphones. for the filter for the "time" ?? for the pads ? for the plasticine ?? for the recabling ? for the soldering iron ?? for the solder ?? for the skill to put it all together (Priceless) I could go on and on and on and on and on!!!!! One thing is for SURE...... £130 is not happening! All the best, Mike.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 12, 2013 20:42:01 GMT
He's not selling them, Mike. £130 for the filter alone? You mentioned "£130 plus tweaks".
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 12, 2013 20:43:30 GMT
£130 for the headphones.£500 for the filter £1,000 for the "time" £17 for the pads £2.50 for the plasticine Nothing for the recabling - I have the old cable £40 for the soldering iron £5.00 for the solder £400 for the skill to put it all together (Priceless) Shite - it's a £2,000 headphone. No wonder I like it.........
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 12, 2013 20:43:55 GMT
He's not selling them, Mike. He's giving them away for free? Put me down for one
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 12, 2013 20:48:25 GMT
He originally did it as an experiment after seeing people writing about the T50 and T40 mods in USA. He was a bit disgusted at the prices being charged for a modded headphone so he tried it himself. No intention of marketing anything and he knew I had a T50.
Seriously though, it's a decent DIY project and in line with amp mods and power supplies with regards to price.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 12, 2013 20:51:30 GMT
£130 for the headphones.£500 for the filter £1,000 for the "time" £17 for the pads £2.50 for the plasticine Nothing for the recabling - I have the old cable £40 for the soldering iron £5.00 for the solder £400 for the skill to put it all together (Priceless) Shite - it's a £2,000 headphone. No wonder I like it......... You've been done !
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 12, 2013 20:53:36 GMT
You've been done ! Yeah.... so many times, I'm starting to like it. One look at the plug and I nearly shaved myself with the filter.
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Post by Imagemaker18 on Mar 13, 2013 9:28:51 GMT
Let's work this out. £130 for the headphones. for the filter for the "time" ?? for the pads ? for the plasticine ?? for the recabling ? for the soldering iron ?? for the solder ?? for the skill to put it all together (Priceless) I could go on and on and on and on and on!!!!! One thing is for SURE...... £130 is not happening! All the best, Mike. Total cost of headphones, mod kit, components for active filter, PCB, aluminum box, Shure 940 pads, Cardas cable, Cardas rhodium-plated 6.3mm plug: approx. $270US. Cheers!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 10:50:19 GMT
He originally did it as an experiment after seeing people writing about the T50 and T40 mods in USA. He was a bit disgusted at the prices being charged for a modded headphone so he tried it himself. No intention of marketing anything and he knew I had a T50. Seriously though, it's a decent DIY project and in line with amp mods and power supplies with regards to price. Reminds me of another project we did a couple of years ago called.......... THE SUPERLUX HD681. Mick.
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