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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2012 16:48:37 GMT
Neco is now on his third version of his amp. V1 with standard battery, V2 as a rechargeable version which had my 'water towers' op amps fitted which I really like.
V3 is on its way and it has a rechargeable set of batteries inside. Instead of one battery, it has two so will perhaps be capable of slightly better dynamic? I guess at full power, it'll be running on about 15v in reality but it contains too (supposed) 9v which in reality are a little lower.
I really like his amps a lot for sound and also the way that they are built like a tank. Solid little amps that really do perform well.
I'll compare V3 with V2 when it arrives which should be soon. I've been looking for a higher voltage portable for a llittle while now and Neco has done it!!
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Nov 9, 2012 11:01:14 GMT
Any links to this new amp?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2012 11:07:24 GMT
I'll have a look later Miguel. It has a higher voltage swing so would be better with higher impedance headphones.
The gain can be set low or high. High is 6.
It is supposed to run 60 hours.
I'm so impressed with V1 and V2 that I was really keen to hear the V3 which might show a bit more kick/slam.
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Post by JohnnyBlue on Nov 9, 2012 11:26:13 GMT
Any links to this new amp? Here you go.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2012 17:06:30 GMT
Thanks John. I have the amp now. They are very nice as well. I compared directly with my V2 although my V2 is modded with a different op amp. I have these lovely twin towers in there are you know, they DO sound different or the amp does!!
The twins are less edgy and give a more 'organic' type of sound in comparison to the two 8610's that are in the V3. However, the V3 does indeed have a punch to it..
The V3 I have has a 500ma li-ion battery and takes 8 - 10 hours to charge. Being lithium batteries, there's no memory effect so they can be charged whenever with no harm. They can be left to charge and switch off automatically when cooked!! There is a usb type charger so it could even be charged from a computer. The lead has a usb at one end and a normal pin connector at the other end.
It's a lively listen. It kicks nicely and I'd say it sounds quite extended and drives the K601 with ease. There is a good bass attack although quantities of bass are less than I'm used to on many bigger amps. It seems louder than my V2 at the same setting and yet this amp is set at only 2.3. My other amp is at 2 I think, but the difference in volume is quite a lot. The V2 is a little bit 'softer' sounding, but that could well be the op amps.
I've seen statements about op amps not being that detectable, but putting these two side by side really shows that there are differences between my beloved water towers and the 8610's, which I've always found quite 'toppy'.
However, the 8610 and 8620 are supposed to be a good choice for portable. I know that Norm, who made the wonderful Go-Vibes used the same.
The gain can be altered by opening the amp up and moving jumpers, rather like the Move from Meier Audio. Standard gain is 2.3 but it can be upped to 6. 2.3 is perfectly capable of driving the K601 loud. I don't like too much gain otherwise you hover the vol pot around 8 o' clock and it can be too touchy so 2.3 is pretty good. Neco used to have them higher I think, but I did asked for mine to be lowered a year or so ago. This made the characteristic left/right imbalance at the bottom of the range disappear as well.
Neco will also supply a 'bass enhance mode' if you want it. I opted out of this. It's supposed to boost the bass by 20% and be completely switched away from the output if it's turned off. I generally don't like these boosts so I didn't feel the necessity of having one fitted.
It's a dual amp with two identical circuits, so channel separation is outstanding, therefore you get a better stereo image.
It's built like brick. The batteries don't move inside at all and it arrived nicely charged and ready to go.
I really like Neco's amps. They have this 'cleanness' about their sound and a 'Mercedes' like build quality. IE; they are going to last. The case for the V3 is slightly longer than the V2. I guess the batteries need a bit more space in there. A pleasant listen with lots of punch and along with the Zigis; one of my favourite portable amps.
How does the Zigis compare? Both are CMoys but the Neco is more treble led in sound. I guess this is the op amps since I know the 8610 is forward in timbre. The Zigis is a little softer in tone perhaps but both extremely good. The Zigis has a touch more quantity of bass and seems to be more mid-centric than the Neco.
My feeling is that the Zigis is better suited to the K601 since it supplies a touch more weight but the Neco is probably more accurate in sound.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Nov 10, 2012 12:09:57 GMT
Thanks for the link! I could not find them in the USA version of eBay.
Pretty interesting amp, wonder if there will be an USA dealer in the future.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 12:26:05 GMT
I doubt it Miguel. Neco is quite localised and not a pro maker. He puts them together to order, I think.
What I really like about them is the toughness of the case which is like a solid brick of aluminium and the sound quality is fine. I'd say more top orientated than the Zigis amp but for me that's pretty typical of the 8610's that are in there.
Neco says that the op amps work better at a higher voltage and listening to it, I suspect that they actually do. (Although it's more like to be working around 14v rather than 7)
However, lipos are in there so charge any time, no worries. It has a very 'clean' sound.
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Post by dicky on Nov 10, 2012 12:34:15 GMT
How does it compare to the V2, Ian? Is it worth upgrading?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 16:10:00 GMT
How does it compare to the V2, Ian? Is it worth upgrading? It's difficult to say, Dicky. I don't have the 8610 op amps in my V2. I have these (what I call) water towers. I changed them after Mike put them onto adapters, because they sound less sharp than an 8610 and just more relaxing. That shows when I compare the two. I can't for the life of me remember the number of the towers. At the time, Solderdude warned that the op amp might not be working at its maximum efficiency but to my ears (and Mike's) it sounded really good so I stuck with it. However, the V3 has more voltage swing and as Neco says, it will suit higher impedance headphones better. I feel that it does and have been using the K601 with it. It seems to have a good, fast attack in the bass although less bass than the V2 because I have different op amps I guess. The attack seems slightly better. Neco also fits a bass boost if you want it for nothing. He does it on request. The fact that it has Lipo batteries that go for 60 hours is a major pull for me plus the fact that it is perhaps better for higher impedance amps. The lipos are better in that they can be charged at any time without any harm done to the battery. I'd say if you're happy with the V1 or V2, then stick with it because the V3 retails at somewhere around £90 I think. I think it's worth the money and the build is top notch but if you already have another version, is it worth that much to change? Also, not to forget the excellent value Zigis. I can't believe how cheap the Zigis is tbh. I know that he's been working on a charging circuit along with two batteries. Some could prefer the fuller sound of the op amps he uses in his amps. It's a tough call between the two actually. I'd ideally like a Zigis in a metal box with better op amps and higher voltage so for me, the Neco is a little more classy but at 2 to 3 times the cost of a Zigis. Also, when Zigis has completed his design, it will most likely be quite a bit more. If you sold a V2, you'd get maybe £50 or £60 for one? So an upgrade would be £30 - £40. For me, the Neco is one of my favourite portable amps. My personal preference is for another op amp but it is revealing and has such a good quality of build. The Zigis wins on price easily, but then it's in an abs plastic box and works on 9v not 18v. (although we all know that it is actually lower than this in real life. More like max 16v on the Neco and 8 on the Zigis) Whether to upgrade is a tough call and depends how sensitive you are to tiny changes. I'm quite obsessive about sound I guess and I would upgrade, but I'm not so certain about advising others to. I would like Neco to investigate a warmer op amp as well tbh. I'd like him to optimise the amp to work well with something warmer personally, although I do like the amp as it is. I must admit, the Neco amps do remind me of Norm's old Go Vibes in sound. I think they used 8610 or 8620's as well!!
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Post by dicky on Nov 11, 2012 7:13:15 GMT
Thanks Ian. I find that I'm more sensitive to differences when I go 'back' and I certainly have to live with something for a good while too.
Regarding high impedance, are we talking >300 ohms?
As for your 'water towers', I think they were OPA111BM.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2012 8:05:18 GMT
The K601 are 120 ohms, I think, but they are also quite difficult to drive. (Similar to k701)
If they don't get enough power from an amp, they turn very thin and weedy, to say the least. They can be quite nasty sounding on the wrong gear. However, they're good for close, analytical listening and are sublime on good gear. The flattest headphone I have.
I can't remember at all what the towers are. Mike will know. I called them towers because they actually look like water towers on legs. (Round at the top) According to Frans, they aren't working at great efficiency at lower voltages but on the ears, both Mike and myself really loved them.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Nov 11, 2012 12:59:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2012 20:01:28 GMT
They kind of look like the ones I have Miguel. Mike will know what they are or I'll have to open it up. It's on the Neco thread somewhere!!
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Post by greenstiles on Dec 11, 2012 20:18:25 GMT
Hi there, i've been running an older Dual mono pro version from Neco for a while now with water towers, just had Neco put RCA fittings on as i listen to it through my full size set up. (He said the water towers sounded good !) OPA111BM Think the smallish run of pro portable amps lead to the dual battery of the V3 as they are 18v dual batterry/circuit but with large headphone socket and wider case. I won't part with mine, Had a Moffset V2 off him but i prefer this battery powered box of delights Would like to hear the new V3 moffset though to compare again. Before RCA's fitted below and after above.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2012 16:41:42 GMT
I have his Bosfet and the new 18v battery amp. Both very nice. I'm very keen on his products since they work so well with a lot of headphones.
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Post by greenstiles on Dec 12, 2012 19:15:55 GMT
He's such a nice chap, always willing to help and answer questions, I hope he carries on with his great amps
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 17:23:05 GMT
He's such a nice chap, always willing to help and answer questions, I hope he carries on with his great amps Yes, he is. I think that he has bouts of building them and then a rest. He's not a full time amp builder but they really do sound good. I'm very pleased with the V3 with more voltage available. It also runs for a very long time on one charge. The charging is good as well since it stops itself once the batteries are full, so you can't overcharge them. I much prefer these chunky, hard to break amps than the little plastic ones that will crack if you sit on them!! His amps are built to last.
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