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Post by dalethorn on May 6, 2012 22:37:09 GMT
This thread and the other ones about subjective and objective is a clear and vivid reminder why I have spent so little time here the last year or so....I won´t take sides but it is a bit sad seeing this forum is slowly and surely killing it self...Over .. .. well nothing but stubborness.. I don't see the thread as a problem. I think it's fascinating. It's the lack of interesting threads on the one hand that helps to kill forums, and OTOH the dreaded repetition of phrases like "it's all a matter of opinion..." etc. etc. that adds to the problem. Well, yes, a lot of it is subjective and opinion, but we're not children and don't need to be told that. My suggestion for anyone who is about to write those dreaded sentences is - don't. Spend a little more time and make an effort to address those things when needed in a better and more original way. Say something like "The statement ______ is not proven, or not generally accepted etc." and that way it reads like you're actually taking an interest in the topic instead of just being lazy and dismissive. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 23:02:12 GMT
As an aside, the article linked to, also gave subjective reports on other things. Cat6 cable for instance was preferred for SQ over a particular network in comparison with Cat 5e. As the price difference between both types is quite small, it could be worthwhile for anybody setting up a network for music purposes, to consider using Cat 6 cable instead.I have seen a later report that suggested that surprisingly perhaps, Cat 7 did not sound as good as Cat6 network cables. YMMV.
Alex
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Post by clausdk on May 6, 2012 23:05:06 GMT
This thread and the other ones about subjective and objective is a clear and vivid reminder why I have spent so little time here the last year or so....I won´t take sides but it is a bit sad seeing this forum is slowly and surely killing it self...Over .. .. well nothing but stubborness.. I don't see the thread as a problem. I think it's fascinating. It's the lack of interesting threads on the one hand that helps to kill forums, and OTOH the dreaded repetition of phrases like "it's all a matter of opinion..." etc. etc. that adds to the problem. Well, yes, a lot of it is subjective and opinion, but we're not children and don't need to be told that. My suggestion for anyone who is about to write those dreaded sentences is - don't. Spend a little more time and make an effort to address those things when needed in a better and more original way. Say something like "The statement ______ is not proven, or not generally accepted etc." and that way it reads like you're actually taking an interest in the topic instead of just being lazy and dismissive. I think you got it wrong it is NOT the subject that bores or irritates me, no way, if you care to look some years back I was participating in these threads, because the subject is very interesting.. What bothers me is that good old friends like Frans and Alex, who I both have very dear and hold lots of respect for, goes at each others throats like mad dogs, it is just not right.. Some years ago this place was the best forum anywhere, we all helped each other very kind and generous, the Superlux thing was a thing of beauty.. Mike was doing his mods.. Mick was making steel rings.. I was making leather headbands.. Frans was making his filters.. And we gave it all away for free, even used our own pocket money so that our friends did not have to pay for the shipping.. Lots of people helped and cared for each other.. That is the Rockgrotto I loved and cared for, but at some point it all went downhill.. Starting with Rick´s much to early dead, we had a truly golden time at that point and collected money to send to his widdow and probably some flowers for the grave, it was BIG in my opinion.. From that point forward it was all down hill.. If you had been around at that time you would know what I am reffering to.. Today when I come by it is about helicopters and who can piss at the greatest distance.. I was told to Feck off and mind my own forum which I have done for almost a year now, but I still followed this place, just to see how things were going with my good old friends.. Afterall the RG from some years ago was my inspiration to make my own headphone forum and I truly care and like many members here on this site, but it is so sad to read all about Fran´s and Alex´s pissing contest, when I for a fact know that these two wonderfull guys actually care for each other.. And have so much more to give than just being at each others throats like mad dogs, it is a bit entertaining, at least to me because I know them well and know that they are NOT hating each other.. But how does a newcommer to this place read the posts ?? If I have found this forum at the present time I would be scared to make posts, because of the heathed tone the forum tends to have for the time being, so it will scare away a lot of folks, who would be starting new threads and adding experience to the forum, but all that is lost and on what grounds ?? Think about it.. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 23:23:38 GMT
Claus
There are very few areas other than the Computer section of the forum where there is anything more than mild disagreement.Computer Audio is only still in it's early stages.
If you check other forums such as Computer Audiophile, you will find a high level of disagreement in this area with the qualified members jumping all over people who dare report hearing differences between USB or coax SPDIF cables, and producing numerous graphs to support their cause in some areas of disagreement. A couple of those qualified C.A. members were even banned for their aggressive and sarcastic replies , although one was later re admitted after sending an email to the Forum owner apologising.The same is presently happening in HFC with one Hydrogen Audio type of member attacking everybody who claims hearing differences between coax SPDIF cables, even attacking 2 of the Admin.
So what would you prefer both myself and John Kenny to do .
STFU ?
IF I am indeed correct, and an experienced technical writer like Martin Colloms says I am,
then to remain silent in order to prevent friction between myself, Frans and others who vehemently disagree with me ,
would be to slow down further advances in this area, including higher quality copies of digital media,
where the final product is indistinguishable from the original master.
Presently, experienced Recording Engineers like Barry Diament (ex Atlantic Records, and now Soundkeeper Recordings),
will even tell you that they refuse to supply their recordings in Lossless formats, because they can hear the reduction in SQ.
Award winning Recording Engineer Cookie Marenco from Blue Coast Records, even provides her DSD format recordings as Uncompressed Zips
Regards
Alex
P.S.
Among Barry Diament's mastering efforts, are many well known recordings, including "Linda Ronstadt-What's New" and "The Eagles-Hotel California)
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Post by dalethorn on May 6, 2012 23:51:51 GMT
I suppose I just didn't see the mad dogs at throats thing clearly. I was on head-fi for awhile and got booted - someone I know of even got not-so-well-veiled death threats there - nobody was banned on those. Head-case is even worse, if you want to experience real savagery. Compared to those "highly respected" forums, one of which is closely linked to Stereophile, these guys here are like kittens and bunnies. Depends on what you're used to I suppose. My larger (50,000-foot) view is that the more interesting the forum posts are, the more vigorous the contention, unless the moderation is heavy-handed, like a corporate forum (AES et al).
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Post by dalethorn on May 6, 2012 23:59:09 GMT
So the forum evolved? I don't know if that's a bad thing, since I wasn't part of the scene nor have I done any work for anyone other than giving away about $10k worth of headphones in the past 16 months. I even got booted from Headphiles for opposing the anonymous warning system there, after contributing several headphones and major articles for their commercial site, two of which were featured on Grado's and Shure's main product pages. There's a LOT of hostility in this business, but little or none here.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 0:31:03 GMT
So the forum evolved? I don't know if that's a bad thing, since I wasn't part of the scene nor have I done any work for anyone other than giving away about $10k worth of headphones in the past 16 months. I even got booted from Headphiles for opposing the anonymous warning system there, after contributing several headphones and major articles for their commercial site, two of which were featured on Grado's and Shure's main product pages. There's a LOT of hostility in this business, but little or none here. What is of interest here, is that despite Claus's misgivings, Mike Grierson's "breakaway" forum is now edging towards 3,000 members. Agreed that many members are non contributors, just like in most other forums,however these membership figures have more than doubled in the last couple of years.With added value from people like Dale, who is a respected Headphone reviewer in other forums, the membership numbers are likely to continue growing.This seems to indicate that people appreciate the diversity of opinions here, as well as the technical content of Frans's contributions. Claus's contributions with his unique value added headphone related gear, was also a contributing factor in RG's acceptance. Alex |
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Post by clausdk on May 7, 2012 0:36:52 GMT
Claus There are very few areas other than the Computer section of the forum where there is anything more than mild disagreement.Computer Audio is only still in it's early stages. If you check other forums such as Computer Audiophile, you will find a high level of disagreement in this area with the qualified members jumping all over people who dare report hearing differences between USB or coax SPDIF cables, and producing numerous graphs to support their cause in some areas of disagreement. A couple of those qualified C.A. members were even banned for their aggressive and sarcastic replies , although one was later re admitted after sending an email to the Forum owner apologising.The same is presently happening in HFC with one Hydrogen Audio type of member attacking everybody who claims hearing differences between coax SPDIF cables, even attacking 2 of the Admin. Regards Alex And you think this is a good thing ?? So we might as well do it here also ?? I know the tone is much nicer in the other parts of the forum, but most of the new posts are in the "let see who has the biggest dog" forum.. You for an instance know that if you write certain things about computer music it will evolve into a heathed argument, so why do you keep on posting those teasers ?? Do you have to be a knight of the "we can hear something you can´t crowd" ?? It is OK to disagree, by all means, but do we have to do it all the time ?? over the same subject I might add.. Frans and a few others is not posting those teaser, but can not help getting provoked by them when they are thrown at them, which also is allright, because they love what they are doing.. But why go on and on and on and on and on and on and on we all know how these threads end, either locked or people starting offending each other.. To no use I might add because none will hear or believe what the other has to say, so it is really no use having arguments about it.. The other day you locked a thread about the subject, just to have Frans unlock it some time after to get the last word.. Two valued and respected senior members (and admins) behaving more childish than the kids in my boys kindergarten.. And it is all all right because they do it other places also, that is the weakest argument I ever heard.. Rockgrotto is about helping each other. Rockgrotto is about caring for each other. Rockgrotto is about getting more out of your gear. Rockgrotto is about saving money getting bang for the buck. Rockgrotto is about making new friends Rockgrotto is NOT about being at each others throats. Rockgrotto is NOT about winning arguements. Rockgrotto is NOT about making enemies. Don't you agree with me that the tone and forum was much nicer and better running 1½ years ago ?? Why sacrifice all that just to "prove" that bits are bits or bits are not bits ?? There are arguments like Peter, Paul and Mary from some unknow forum also reported to hear a difference.. Well newsflash, nobody knows Peter, Paul and Mary and even fewer care about what they hear or can not hear.. In the end who cares ?? None of the involved parties want to listen to the other ½ and all those that more or less don't care has not anything to read because all the energy is wasted on a pissing contest.. It is the cable discussion over again just called "the bits are bits or are they ?" subject.. How many people are googling "difference in bits" or "are bits really just bits" and end up here ?? Not many I am quite certain about. They end up here because they are interested in amps, phones, DACs and AUDIO related stuff and try googling those things, maybe even try to get away from stupid pointless arguments, that haunts their normal forum.. I have said my piece on the subject and will go back to just reading the fewer and fewer posts about audio, that also pops up once in a full moon.. |
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Post by clausdk on May 7, 2012 0:51:00 GMT
So the forum evolved? I don't know if that's a bad thing, since I wasn't part of the scene nor have I done any work for anyone other than giving away about $10k worth of headphones in the past 16 months. I even got booted from Headphiles for opposing the anonymous warning system there. I was not attacking your kindness or generousity, perish the thought, You are one of those who actually have been writing about headphones and I have enjoyed many of you good posts.. I just miss the good old days I suppose and was trying to explain why I wrote what I wrote.. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 0:56:25 GMT
Claus
I will not be censored by people like yourself.
If you don't like it, don't read the Computer section of RG.
It appears that you took my reply as a personal attack on you,
judging by the tone of your reply. It wasn't.
IMO, the increasing R.G. membership numbers speak for themselves.
I would respectfully suggest that you look after your own tiny forum as Mike suggested.
Alex
P.S.
As clearly stated in the initial post,this thread was started to allow people to make up their own minds, not become a thread for personal attacks or heated arguments.
If you disagree with the contents of the HFC report that's your perogative. I should perhaps have locked the thread so that it was READ ONLY. However, as you have already noted,other members of the Admin team can over-ride those settings.
This thread is now locked again, as it was made clear by Mike in this thread that he thought it should be.
P.P.S.
"clausdk's Universal headphone guide" is still in existence if you wish to continue with it.
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Post by clausdk on May 7, 2012 1:28:59 GMT
You do not need to be censored, why should you ??
You can write anything you want, I am just saying it is not nessesary to wave your flag all the time..
We all know what you are saying...
I will go back and take care of my tiny forum..
So I will STFU and be censored or rather told to go away..
I will stop posting, but would also in return like to have my name removed from the forum category list, as I do not want to have my name there when I am unwanted..
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 1:55:44 GMT
Claus
Nobody asked you to delete your membership. You kept ignoring that this was not intended to be a discussion thread.
A reply like yours would have been far more appropiate in the moderators and Admin area ,where it could have been discussed further, instead of a personal attack in a publicly viewable area. That is bad form, and I doubt that it would happen in your own forum.
I checked a moment ago , and there were 5 people viewing the Computer area of the forum, The highest number in other areas was 3.This suggests differently to what you have claimed.
I invited you to post further in your area, not close the area that you started. You are more than welcome to post your reviews of headphones in that area. I will leave your area open, in case you wish to reconsider posting further in your own area.
Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 7, 2012 6:38:25 GMT
I appear to have missed all this last night  Claus, get your arse back here and don't be daft... it's the same place it has always been..... the helicopter section is possibly the most civil part of the forum, with people "enjoying" and discussing their enjoyment of helicopters... much the same way as a lot of us here used to talk about music and share our experiences of audio gear / musical reproduction. The key is not to "disappear" and walk away with your tail between your legs, the way to do it is to post the way you have always done.... if the lunatics start taking over the asylum, you don't leave them to it do you? Mick's rings, your leather headbands, the HD-681, the Panda etc. etc. etc. were fantastic... as was the annual Pink Balls competition  .... it can all happen again but if you disappear then it's unlikely. If you're on MSN later I'd like a word with you. All the best, Mike. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 8:57:24 GMT
I ..... the helicopter section is possibly the most civil part of the forum, with people "enjoying" and discussing their enjoyment of helicopters... . No it's not. My chopper's bigger than yours!! It has surprised me how the existence of the heli section has upset some people. Mick was also offended by it. However, no harm was meant by inserting it. It's just one of the 'madcap' areas that Mile and I mostly just have a bit of fun in. It is an escape area I guess and since we're both mad as hatters, posts just ramble all over the place in there. I don't understand why people are offended by it though tbh. It's just a daft area that you can avoid. A bit of light relief from the 'heavy' gear talk. I still post in the audio forums as well though so I'm not exclusive to heli!! However, I did two new tube amps; both stunning, and tbh, there wasn't a lot of interest. Not even in hearing the amps. That was a surprise to me. It had the potential to become a discussion but when members are asked to have a listen and talk about what they hear, there are not that many who can or want to do it. Too often it has seemed like talking into space, even on audio matters with new gear. It felt as though some were making up their minds what to buy from reviews rather than discuss from what we wrote. That in turn made me feel a little uncomfortable since one amp I wrote about was redesigned and tweaked according to what I said about it and then offered around the forum. One taker. That was it. So it works both ways. Members also need to contribute to make a forum, not just certain 'key' members. There are some 'lazy' members who don't contribute and then don't like what others that continue to contribute say. I know that Mike also felt the pressure to contribute at one point since members seemed to rely on him to post anything back!!! No wonder he's gone mad and turned to helis, poor bloke!!!  I would say that the options are to just not reply if you don't like how someone replies (as I do) so that you don't become embroiled in an argument but continue to write about what you're interested in. It just gets a bit odd to read when people complain about that heli section when in fact, I have recently written reviews on the HA10, Horizon, DAB, the Denon D2000 and Folk music. The amps were used with a really wide variation of headphones and yet, not that many contribute. I contribute in all areas that I feel I can, including the heli, so it hasn't exactly taken over the world!! Yet, people complain that it exists and don't contribute to my hi fi reviews? It sometimes feels as though you're writing into space ........ In spite of the disputes, Alex and Frans are major contributors and are way out of my 'League' ;D However, their writings have all been read by me. Frans Techno viewpoint is very interesting (in a Spock like way) and Alex is also interesting (in a 'Bones' type way) It isn't realistic if people never argue. That's not really any kind of relationship - it's just superficial. However, guys moaning about helis in a hi fi forum that they don't contribute in that much themselves is puzzling. Don't just leave Claus. Contribute, even if it's to tell me what a big kid I am with helis!! I do miss your contributions as well as Christians and Mick's but they don't happen that much, do they? The heli section is just pure fun and there are no arguments, putting right, whatever. Pure escapism!!! There is also a point where there just isn't enough new gear to discuss and we can start going in circles, chasing our own tails, repeating the same old stuff. Unless we start talking Portapro again.......? |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 9:49:48 GMT
Wise words from Ian.
I concur...
The heli section is indeed an 'escape' section and I even read it sometimes.
It almost pulled me to the 'flying side' myself as I like those mechanical things but am afraid it would become an expensive hobby and cost a lot of time and blades/parts.
There is also a cooking section as well, nobody seems bothered by it.
My other hobby is (was actually) photography and I know more are interested in that topic but there is no specific section other than the photo of the day... but it is there too in that sense.
a lot of people have other non audio related hobbies as well and also but don't have a section in here.
That last aspect is what might be 'offensive' to some as it doesn't seem related nor do most other audio related forums have such a specific to one other hobby section.
I understand the frustration of seemingly little interest or feedback but judging form the number of downloads from my pdf's I know things are read a lot by people passing by and possibly not even registering as member when they do not feel like posting.
The number of 'members' says nothing really as I think the majority of those members will not be visiting anymore after they 'retreived' what they thought.
Let me make this clear...
Most regulars are passionate about this hobby and we do not all share the same opinions.
I do not hate Alex's guts nor he mine... we just disagree about several things and feel confident about our convictions. That's called passion.
'bickering' between admins may not be a good thing to the people 'outside' that may get a wrong opinion about it as these are also the most frequent posters.
Generally they only pass by to look for 'googled' info and do not even read 99% of the other stuff in here.
The thing with RG is the 'admins' on here do not have the same beliefs and convictions/opinions which is what makes RG unique.
One, that at least was, passionate about everything connected to headphone audio, one computer minded person with analog interest, a musician and a nerdy tech with an oscilloscope.
They all look at things from different angles and can answer different questions and all contribute valuable things in different ways.
Mike taking a 'break' on account of lost of interest ? makes it appear as little is reviewed here as this was mostly Mikes department.
Most things have been discussed, most already have (lots ?) of amps and/or headphones and not many buy the newest stuff simply for reviewing or comparing them.
I don't think this is anybodies 'fault' nor that people are to blame for 'ruining' RG's spirit.
It changes and controversial things are posted relatively more often because of it.
Just my point of view.
I like Claus a lot eventhough he and I had some 'passionate' arguements about certain aspects in the past and feel sad he decided to leave.
I have felt that way a couple of times but received support from other members which feels good at those periods in life.
Just realised... the thread is locked (just not for regulars) and it's got f@@k to do with the HFC article...
In case the posts need to go 'on record' perhaps move the unrelated posts ?
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 10:06:17 GMT
However, I did two new tube amps; both stunning, and tbh, there wasn't a lot of interest. Not even in hearing the amps. That was a surprise to me. Do you mean the Sunrise and Horizon? Speaking for myself, I read with interest but had no further curiosity. This was based on me really not getting on with the G2 even after mods. The Sunrise was said to be marginally better, so my attention faded. The Horizon seems to be an alternative version for hungry-'phones but essentially the same. So again faded interest. I'd only be delaying a keener party from hearing it. I'm also in the tube-stuff t'aint for me field, unless proven otherwise, like the hybrid V2. Only one? I think I was there too  (double!) Very true! This is what sometimes leads to the problems unfortunately. For many there is a new found interest in computer audio now that improved SQ can be teased out, only to be told we're deluded by those who disagree. Yet it's OK, for eg, to bung £500 IC into the mix which some are pro for and others not. That does not decend into anarchy. All your posts are very knowledgable and appreciated. Just my tuppence worth. Don't start me on that one again |
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 7, 2012 11:07:44 GMT
You're not wrong there Ian, there was a time when I was contacting manufacturers, buying amps "blind" off ebay, buying kit amps and then talking about them in great depth (as well as taking under the bonnet photos)... very VERY time consuming but also very enjoyable... it got to the stage (I think) where it was "expected" for me to continue contributing such a lot of content and I must admit it all got a bit too much. As well as responding to the forum I got loads of e-mails, PM's and even a few guys who wanted to "phone" me... erm, FFS, there was even one guy who said he'd like to travel up to the far north of Scotland and "pop in" when he was on holiday  I've got every intention of doing what I used to do again but, this time, it will be slightly less intense with only one amp on the go at any given time.... I really did / do enjoy it, it wasn't a "chore" but did become a bit too much.... I was basically living on the forum and that's not healthy for anybody. Ian is correct, just because I'm having a break doesn't mean nobody else can write amp reviews / take photos / spout their opinions.... There was one guy who as much as said that the "admin" people had stopped posting and the forum had gone to the dogs..... erm, it's not the "job" of a handful of people to entertain the masses, you can do that for so long and then you go insane Just having a break.... ten years writing about amps on forums is a long time.... a year off is a short time in the scheme of things. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 13:20:25 GMT
Has Alex been pestering you again? Sorry Chris, I left you out. You did indeed pop in and was interested as well!! The thing with RG is the 'admins' on here do not have the same beliefs and convictions/opinions which is what makes RG unique.
One, that at least was, passionate about everything connected to headphone audio, one computer minded person with analog interest, a musician and a nerdy tech with an oscilloscope.
They all look at things from different angles and can answer different questions and all contribute valuable things in different ways.Absolutely true. Unlike Voldemort, our tech guy does not have one view (publicly!!!! ) There is room left for discussion which the twin doesn't seem to have. Your descriptions of headphones are scary though, when you haven't even heard them.  So basically Claus, if you're still around ..... the arguing is pretty normal imo if people discuss things and I don't think that harm is intended ever. When it gets close to 'hurting' others feelings, pm's go flying between people at the same time so it gets sorted quickly. Try playing in a band where you have disagreements to the point of bashing each other on the head with a bottle!!!! That gets the creative juices running I can tell you. I work on the premise of, 'if in doubt, keep quiet and let them get on with it.' If I can help, I try. I don't turn away from it though. Even though some of them get on my tits!!!! I even got so pee'd off with one guy, I wrote a song about him with lyrics put down by people on this forum!!!! It even got performed in an extended version....... I sent him a copy, but I don't think he liked it. Good job he's not a critic. I have the answer - buy a heli and go on the heli section!!! Flying those little buggers, there is no time to worry about work or RG!!! Get one Frans, they are truly addictive and very frustrating. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 7, 2012 18:16:39 GMT
Take your car for an MOT at Sutherland's garage in Reay... you get a free demo of your car doing a multiple donut and get barred from the premises... that really gets your juices flowing |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 18:54:12 GMT
I probably wouldn't be able to understand what he's saying either!!! Whatb is really poor is what the bobbies did!!! I can't believe that.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2012 12:59:20 GMT
This really is a fascinating subject.... I haven't enjoyed the bad feelings whipped up by the topic one bit, but it IS a fascinating topic nevertheless.
So Colloms says, in the final paragraph of the HiFi Critic article, "power supply quality for a ripper's drive mechanism can be transmitted as sound quality differences via error-proofed WAV music files". I chose that quotation as is seems to neatly sum up what the issue is about.
So then, to re-iterate, one can take a CD and rip a track a mumber of times using a variety of drives, PCs, power supplies or whatever, and save the results to a memory stick. And on playing the resulting files back there can be audible differences between these numerically identical tracks? And one could rate these various rips from best to worst sounding.
Well OK then. Thought experiment:
Let's take the worst sounding rip of the bunch. Then lets burn that worst-sounding rip to CDR. Then go back to the kit arrangement that gave rise to that worst-sounding rip to start with and re-rip the track to memory stick and check to ensure the copy is 'bit perfect' ... copy it to CDR.. re-rip, save and repeat this excercise many many many times.
At some point the repeated processing will have degraded the track SO much that even cloth-eared listeners like me* could identify the copy which had been ripped many many times over using the less-than-good source equipment
OK, I am open to ideas why this wouldn't work so put me right people. I stress I am neither for nor against this idea of bit-perfect copies sounding different from each other depending on the nature of the source equipment /environment. In fact I do lean towards accepting the argument because I have to defer to the experience of our own members plus, increasingly it seems, the 'professionals'.
Regards,
Derek
* "Your replay chain isn't good enough" I hear you all shout. "Good" I reply!
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2012 16:16:53 GMT
M.C.'s actually writes (I quote):
It's particularly interesting to try and understand the means by which the power supply quality for a ripper's drive can be transmitted as sound quality differences via error-proofed WAV music files.
Here is the beauty of a skilled writer quite obvious.
It can be read in 2 ways:
a: the power supply quality for a ripper's drive can be transmitted as sound quality differences via error-proofed WAV music files.
b: It is particularly interesting to TRY and understand the means by which the power supply quality for a ripper's drive can be transmitted as sound quality differences.
It's up to the reader to decide what part of the scentence is found to be of importance.
Brilliant writing skills !
Everyones position in this controversial stuff is clear.
I still hope someone is smart enough to figure out the mechanism for it.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2012 21:30:06 GMT
Frans As an aside, the full length versions of those other files we were talking about, were given as a public challenge to a very smart guy in C.A. after he took another gentle dig at me and the TAS report. He claims to have pretty decent gear, including electrostatic speakers.Our friend from Brisbane got 7/10 in a series of tests that you would have approved of, that were organised by his son. I chose the same track and detailed what I heard.I haven't heard back from him since I gave him details about what had been done , and which track was which. Regards Alex |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2012 21:56:04 GMT
Derek
What is being missed here, is that I am only to make these differences obvious to those with good gear, especially the many experienced RG members who use decent HAs and headphones, as a result of a lot of work to my P.C. , including better filtering of the SMPS supply to the optical device.
Chris from Spain, John Kenny, and a few other members are also able to do this, and have others able to DL their comparison files and correctly identify the differences. It's only when you get into making linear PSU media centres as several here have done, or improve the PC by using better than average optical devices and perhaps the +5V JLH USB PSU that these differences start to become far more obvious.Many people can differentiate between 2 comparison tracks, and several have been able to differentiate between 3 versions of the same, but after that, I doubt anybody would be reliably able to identify the differences between each.
A Sydney friend who visited me recently,even created 8 generations of the same track , all on my Corsair Voyager using the +5V JLH PSU . Despite the far better PSU , he was just able to hear the differences between the 8th copy and the original on the same Corsair Voyager.
Alex
P.S.
I just let him take control of my P.C. and I wasn't even aware what he had done until he told me later.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2012 5:11:25 GMT
Frans As an aside, the full length versions of those other files we were talking about, were given as a public challenge to a very smart guy in C.A. after he took another gentle dig at me and the TAS report. He claims to have pretty decent gear, including electrostatic speakers.Our friend from Brisbane got 7/10 in a series of tests that you would have approved of, that were organised by his son. I chose the same track and detailed what I heard.I haven't heard back from him since I gave him details about what had been done , and which track was which. Regards Alex Has little (or should I say nothing) to do with M.C.'s findings nor yours though. The test you refer to doesn't have identical files at all in fact one of them is altered to have the noise floor increased to -60dB and if we would consider the 'added' info as distortion that would be around 1% (-40dB). The whole point of that test is to show we can actually 'hear' something is different when these levels are reached. The purpose this test was designed for (to mimic certain artifacts) has little relevance to the actual test IMO. For an x out of 10 to be conclusive one would have to score 9 or 10 out of 10 to be conclusive (proven differences). 5 out of 10 with extremes to 3 or 7 out of 10 fall within standard deviation of an x out of 10. I greatly applaude the way the Brisbane member has conducted his test.  flip a coin 10 times and repeat that sequence a few times to get a feel of 'random' scores. I did... even posted my findings. |
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Claus, get your arse back here and don't be daft... it's the same place it has always been..... the helicopter section is possibly the most civil part of the forum, with people "enjoying" and discussing their enjoyment of helicopters... much the same way as a lot of us here used to talk about music and share our experiences of audio gear / musical reproduction.
.... it can all happen again but if you disappear then it's unlikely.
(double!)
