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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2012 13:15:22 GMT
Christian, both the k601 and 701 work really well at 120 ohms. They do mellow slightly and are slightly less aggressive. There's also a lot of power at 120 ohms so they are both very loud from the Horizon.
The easy (and well thought out) configuration options provide a nice balance of options tbh.
Close to zero if you want the theoretical 'correct' thing according to Voldemort. 35 ohms which is enough to lose all hint of hiss on low impedance headphones without radically changing the sound. 120 ohms to match headphones that demand this with big power.
The configuration on this is brilliant to say the least. Once you hear how much power it has, many other amps just seem extremely under-powered. It has the push to deliver a nice full blooded signal into 120 ohms with ease.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using ProBoards
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2012 17:42:19 GMT
DT150 on the Horizon is also really good. I'm not sure what the sensitivity of the 150's is but they're 250 ohms and can only take up to 100 mW so there's more than enough in the Horizon to fry it. Really good bass depth. I think the 150's go from 5 to 30,000 so they're pretty wide in frequency range. Usually, I feel closed in on the DT150 at home. They can sound a bit dark and fat. The Horizon seems to keep it well in check. Makes you wonder - put a bit of oomph into the headphone from the amplifier and they seem to behave a bit better. I have to say, I's hard to catch the amp out with any headphone. There's a setting that seems to suit anything I throw at it. From one extreme to the other - 20 something ohms with the Denons and 300 on Senns. The amp doesn't sound bad on anything I attach to it. Maybe I'll try the pod buds .......
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XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on May 1, 2012 23:08:00 GMT
Have you tried those professional 600 ohmers yet with this?
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 5:04:23 GMT
If I had 600 ohmers, it would easily drive them!!
You know, the DT150 and the D2000 aren't massively different in tone. I've been comparing them on the Sunrise and on the Horizon and the bass is very similar. The D2000 is a little more open at the top I guess, but the DT150 has a comparatively strong mid presence.
I don't normally use the 150 at home but you know, it's not bad. I can't find a frequency response graph for it but it's rarely written about in hi fi circles. It's a lot better than the DT100.
One difference between Sunrise and Horizon is the Sunrise is quieter with low impedance headphones. To get the Horizon to match, it needs to be set on 35 ohms output impedance. That knocks any hint of hiss on the head. Again, I'm talking tiny!! I live in the middle of nowhere and there is no traffic. I don't live on a road so I have absolute quiet, so minutia can be easily heard.
It could be the valve though.
TBH, they are both cracking little amps.
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Post by proid on May 16, 2012 16:49:32 GMT
Garage1217: do you sell PCB for the PS and how much per one?
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2012 18:18:33 GMT
From this day it would be best to contact him directly via his website for commercial questions. Support of the Sunrise (II), Horizon and new designs will therefore not be be discussed and reviewed in Rock Grotto as some people complained about the commercial nature of it and this violates RG rules.
For technical questions, upcoming designs and/or to get in contact with Jeremy of Garage1217 I can be contacted as well via PM.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2012 19:12:04 GMT
?
Has Jeremy broken forum rules?
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 16, 2012 19:25:42 GMT
It has? By whom? PM me his ip address Frans and I will check.
Mike.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2012 21:37:04 GMT
Frans I can't speak for Mike, but I can't see why those designs and products can't be discussed here, as long as they get no more exposure than Candy's and other stuff does.Neither can I see any reason why they shouldn't be reviewed by interested members provided that they are submitted the same as other commercial products, and passed around interested members.Interested members should express interest in the forum, but not be asked to participate. Anyway, that's how I personally believe it should be done in order to remove any commercial look to R.G. The final decision, as always, should be Mike's decision. Regards Alex
P.S. IP addresses can also be blocked as a result of reported SPAM from certain IPs. A while back I was unable to email many European RG members because of Optus being blacklisted by a their email provider.This may also happen if a Spammer is blocked by IP address ?
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Post by flatbroker on May 19, 2012 15:39:45 GMT
Have you tried those professional 600 ohmers yet with this? New member. First post. I am the proud owner of Project Horizon s/n K0001. If you have 600ohm DT880's this is your amp. I finished building this bad boy about midnight last night. I tried it with HD580, HD600, HD650, DT880, and DT990 and a couple of different tubes. With the output impedance set at 35 ohms and the stock tube they all sound good but the hot ticket is the DT880. Words (at least mine) cannot express what this amp does for these phones. I have auditioned a bunch of amps with my stable of headphones. Prior to tonight my go to combo was the HD600 and HD580 with a DIY Bijou. I really feel that is going to change to this amp and the DT880's. It drives all the others well also, but it is a perfect match for the 880's. The voltage swing provides a ton of headroom. Deep bass notes don't obscure other notes now. Midrange is punchy and robust. Highs are smooth and silky. Like I said I finished the build at midnight and started listening. All of the sudden noticed it was daylight outside. I kept on rediscovering old material until around 9:00 am this morning. That, for me, with a regular bedtime of 10:30, is a testament to this amp. I don't usually recommend equipment due to the subjectivity involved, but this is a no-brainer if you have DT880 600ohm. Now I have to install an underground pet fence on 2 hours of sleep. Dang you Project Horizon.
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Post by flatbroker on May 19, 2012 16:25:35 GMT
Oh yeah, I almost forgot that without pictures it didn't happen Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2012 18:25:18 GMT
HI Flatbroker. (you sound like a landlord) The Horizon is top notch. An absolutely stunning amp. I have one on loan from Solderdude at the moment (he's the guy who had a hand in designing it) I reviewed it and found that its various configurations seem to make a good job of whatever is thrown at it. I've had it on Senn 650, AKG 601, Denon 2000 and all kinds of other headphones just to see if I could find something that would show any weakness. The most difficult one is the Denon imo since it has a good top end response (and low) but it is such a low impedance headphone that it would show any noise easily. At virtually zero output impedance, there is the slightest hint of hiss (common from many amps) but take it to 32 and it's dead silent. However, the sheer whack it gives and the amount of headroom that it offers is absolutely brilliant. I am really fond of it - even to the point that I tend to use it as a 'treat' because I don't want it to get worn out!!! ;D My biggest worry with it is the heat. I'm a stickler for cool electronics which ultimately give a longer life. I also have a Sunrise which is also a staggeringly good amp but it was modified by Pink Floyd for me. (and built) He put a very large array of heatsinking on it and imo it was really worth it. My Sunrise runs really cool as a result. I think it's a good idea to do the same on the Horizon personally. Don't get me wrong, it'll run for a long time, but I think ultimately, the heat will get to it. I guess I want everything to last forever. Solderdude is a clever man. He designed it to be as easily configured as possible to suit different peoples' tastes. It makes it a very unique amp and it also has a drop dead gorgeous sound.
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 19, 2012 19:40:37 GMT
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Post by proid on May 20, 2012 8:35:27 GMT
@pinkfloyd: how did you stick the heatsink together?
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2012 9:57:27 GMT
The heatsinks have little pins on one side with which they can be secured to the PCB (by soldering) These pins also fit in holes above and they simply can be pressed on top of each other. I found just pressing them onto each other isn't very effective as there is a small air gap between the 2 heatsinks. So there is only marginal heat conduction by the small pins. When I measured the temperature of the upper heatsink and the one below the temperature difference was rather big, which they shouldn't be when there is proper thermal conduction. I solved this by adding a tiny amount of heatsink compound between the 2 heatsinks (as can be seen on the picture below). This works like a charm and lowers the temperature of the components considerable and the top heatsink thus also becomes hotter. I had the same issue with all 3 amps/heatsinks I have, the heatsink compound helped a lot in each case. Eventhough they are stuck together quite firmly just by using the pins I added an extra 'brace' to make sure they stay in their place (see pic below) This one was made with a pre-tapped strip from 19" racks and spray painted black before mounting.
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Post by proid on May 20, 2012 10:09:41 GMT
Nice, thanks
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2012 23:33:11 GMT
Hey Ian, Good reads! Horizon is currently available for pre-order now with an expected ship date of may 7th. A kit will be $254.99 and a fully built / tested Horizon will be $299.99. Optional hard carrying case runs $30 extra for either a kit or built and tested amp. Just shoot me a PM and I can send a paypal invoice to any interested parties. Horizon will be added to my webstore on May 7th. Hey, Jeremy After a long absence, I am back among the living. Been in the hospital for a couple of months, literally fighting for my life after complications following open heart surgery. As Mark Twain said, 'Rumors of my demise have been greatly exagerated.' I am now back, eager and anxious to catch up with all that I have missed, and will be very much interested in the Horizon amp. I am inclined to get the fully built and tested one, for I am still recovering from my brush with the 'Grim Reaper'. Let me know how soon you can ship one out to me. Do you think you can add an extra layer of heat sinking? Send me an invoice, and I will PayPal you ASAP. All The Best! Israel
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 1:51:21 GMT
Why 2 different versions of the same amplifier ? This has to do with physical size (mainly of the heat-sinks), supply voltage, output voltage, output resistance and headphone impedance. The Horizon works on 48V DC and the Sunrise (II) on 24V Because the topology of these amps is single ended class-A and power consumption of both amps is about the same (14.5W Sunrise-II and 17W Horizon both channels together) this division becomes a fact of life. Because of the higher supply voltage the Horizon has a much larger output voltage swing (14V), the Sunrise II has 6V. For this reason the Horizon is best suited for: headphones between 120 Ohm and 600 Ohm and to drive any headphones that can best be driven by a 120 Ohm source. The Sunrise-II is optimized for driving headphones between 16 Ohm and 120 Ohm. This doesn't mean the Horizon cannot be used for 32 and 60 Ohms headphones, nor doesn't mean the Sunrise-II is not suited for 300 Ohm headphones. The Horizon will deliver at least 200MW (the maximum rating for a lot of headphones) in all headphones between 32 Ohm and 600 Ohm regardless of output resistance setting (0 Ohm to 120 Ohm output resistance setting) and, dependent of conditions, can deliver max 650mW. In 32 Ohm headphones, on low output resistance setting (5 Ohm), the Sunrise-II can deliver 900mW, the horizon 'merely' manages 180mW. In 600 Ohm HP's the Horizon can pump 300mW but the Sunrise only manages 60mW. So 2 amps that can both drive the whole 'headphone range' from 16 to 600 Ohm but are 'optimized' in 2 steps.... 16 – 120 Ohm and 120 - 600 Ohm. Tweaking: Increasing the class-A current of the Horizon by a factor 2 would solve the power 'restriction' for low impedance headphones (200MW is not exactly a restriction) but power consumption would double as well to 35W meaning the size of the heat-sinks would need to be much bigger. Since these amps are DIY this can be done and will be glad to help those that want this. An amp that can drive all headphones to higher power will be developed but won't be class-A because of it's size and power consumption. This one will be called Ember. Anyone (meaning RG members based in Europe) that are interested in auditioning or reviewing any of these amps can PM me. Try before you buy is also a possibility. Ultimately both amps are 'for sale'. Serial number Horizon = 0000 Serial number Sunrise II = K0010 They were used to test the boards and tweak the the amplifier's performance .... etc,.etc... Hello, Frans I have been away for a while (to hell and back, to be exact!), and now that I am home, and had a chance to catch up a little bit with some of the postings here, my interest was piqued by the specs of the Horizon amp. From Ian's rave review, I gather that it is a very worthwhile addition to my Sunrise amp, which Jeremy modified about three months ago. Thank you so much for the valuable information you have posted, and for designing this very promising amp! You are one of the people who greatly contribute to this forum, and I am indeed very happy to be back, and read your consistently informative postings! All the Best! Israel
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 2:00:57 GMT
Hello, Ian Thanks for the very informative review of the Horizon amp. I have been away for a while, and now that I am back, your review has contributed to my decision to order one, which I just did. I am hoping that, in addition to m HD650, it will bring new life to my K701s. All the Best! Israel
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 5:27:15 GMT
Hi Israel,
Welcome back.. ! Sorry to hear about the health issues.
You can contact Jeremy via his website or personal mail.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 7:41:08 GMT
Hi Israel,
I've been wondering about you!! Hope your coming back to the land of better health now.
As far as the amp goes - it is a lovely thing. I really like the idea of being able to change the output impedance and the amount of power that it offers even at 120 ohms out is amazing.
It kicks my K601 into life big time and offers a slightly more mellow and powerful sound. I still have it on loan from Frans and use it every day.
My only crit. would be the heat over the long term could shorten its life a bit. My Sunrise runs perfectly cool with the big heatsink and I'm happier with that than having a heater on the end of my headphones!!
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 15:23:03 GMT
Hi Israel, Welcome back.. ! Sorry to hear about the health issues. You can contact Jeremy via his website or personal mail. Thank you, Frans! It is good to be back. I sent Jeremy an order via PM. Haven't gotten a reply yet. He may be away. I am anxious to hear this new amp. All the Best! Israel
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 15:55:23 GMT
Hi Israel, I've been wondering about you!! Hope your coming back to the land of better health now. As far as the amp goes - it is a lovely thing. I really like the idea of being able to change the output impedance and the amount of power that it offers even at 120 ohms out is amazing. It kicks my K601 into life big time and offers a slightly more mellow and powerful sound. I still have it on loan from Frans and use it every day. My only crit. would be the heat over the long term could shorten its life a bit. My Sunrise runs perfectly cool with the big heatsink and I'm happier with that than having a heater on the end of my headphones!! Hi, Ian Thank you so much for the good wishes! I have been wondering about me too, and it was 'touch and go' there for a while. Despite the Demi-godlike predictions of 5% chance of survival by some pompous doctors , I beat the odds, and am here now, ready to take all that life offers! I am looking forward to getting my hands on this new beast. It promises all these good qualities, designed by Frans' genius. I agree with you about the heat issue. My Sunrise has three layers of heat sinks, two of which I added, and it runs much cooler than before. I asked Jeremy to add another layer of at whatever additional charge - well worth it. I will report my impressions of the Horizon, after I take delivery, and have had a chance to play with it. Thanks again for the excellent review, and the good wishes! All the Best, Israel
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Post by flatbroker on May 29, 2012 18:14:16 GMT
The heatsinks have little pins on one side with which they can be secured to the PCB (by soldering) These pins also fit in holes above and they simply can be pressed on top of each other. I found just pressing them onto each other isn't very effective as there is a small air gap between the 2 heatsinks. So there is only marginal heat conduction by the small pins. When I measured the temperature of the upper heatsink and the one below the temperature difference was rather big, which they shouldn't be when there is proper thermal conduction. I solved this by adding a tiny amount of heatsink compound between the 2 heatsinks (as can be seen on the picture below). This works like a charm and lowers the temperature of the components considerable and the top heatsink thus also becomes hotter. I had the same issue with all 3 amps/heatsinks I have, the heatsink compound helped a lot in each case. Eventhough they are stuck together quite firmly just by using the pins I added an extra 'brace' to make sure they stay in their place ...] With no heatsink compound and joined only by the pins the tops of my upper heat sinks were measuring around 130 deg. at their hottest point. I took your advice and put some heatsink compound between the heatsinks. To connect them I used some 1-1/4" 4-40 screws from the local home supply store. I removed the pins from the upper sink and drilled them out with a 7/64" bit so the screws would pass though them. I tapped the top 1/4" of the lower sink for the screws and carefully snugged them up for a nice tight mechanical connection (squishing out most of the compound.) Don't over torque the screws since you are only dealing with 1/4" of threads in aluminum. Now the top of the upper heat sinks are running north of 150 deg. It was a pretty easy mod, and I have the piece of mind of knowing the stacked heatsinks are doing their job. I'll post an image when I get a chance.
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joethearachnid
Been here a while!
Old head on young shoulders.
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Post by joethearachnid on May 29, 2012 19:12:18 GMT
With no heatsink compound and joined only by the pins the tops of my upper heat sinks were measuring around 130 deg. at their hottest point. I took your advice and put some heatsink compound between the heatsinks. To connect them I used some 1-1/4" 4-40 screws from the local home supply store. I removed the pins from the upper sink and drilled them out with a 7/64" bit so the screws would pass though them. I tapped the top 1/4" of the lower sink for the screws and carefully snugged them up for a nice tight mechanical connection (squishing out most of the compound.) Don't over torque the screws since you are only dealing with 1/4" of threads in aluminum. Now the top of the upper heat sinks are running north of 150 deg. It was a pretty easy mod, and I have the piece of mind of knowing the stacked heatsinks are doing their job. I'll post an image when I get a chance. I hope that's Fahrenheit because otherwise I think you have a serious problem! -JoetheArachnid
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