XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 28, 2012 10:19:30 GMT
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XTRProf
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Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 28, 2012 10:20:39 GMT
Btw, are those tubes easily obtainable?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2012 10:58:13 GMT
I'll humor you.
Some completely meaningless ESTIMATED numbers.
on 8 Ohm tap it will do approx 200mW into 300 Ohm and 1.5 to 2W into 32 Ohm. on 4 Ohm tap it will do approx 100mW into 300 Ohm and 0.8 to 1W into 32 Ohm.
these are estimated values and distortion numbers are unknown.
The frequency response is dependent on the output trafo bandwidth. Since no info is available I can't even estimate.
Furthermore the question is how will it perform/behave when it doesn't 'see' the proper load (a headphone instead of low impedance speaker). It has overall feedback making the bandwidth wider and easier to use for headphones though.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 28, 2012 11:07:04 GMT
The frequency response is dependent on the output trafo bandwidth. Since no info is available I can't even estimate. Furthermore the question is how will it perform/behave when it doesn't 'see' the proper load (a headphone instead of low impedance speaker). Thanks Frans, that will do. So it's dependent on the output traffos, from what I can imply from your writing? If we can have a matching traffo tap for 32 to say 100 ohms HPs and another tap that can account for 200 to 300 ohms and, if possible, a third tap for 500 to 600 ohms, this amp can be in HP biz, right? Btw, is there such commercial output traffos with 3 tabs of the nominal impedances for HPs impedance matching? That only you technical guys will know better.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Feb 28, 2012 11:27:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2012 12:18:20 GMT
The frequency response is dependent on the output trafo bandwidth. Since no info is available I can't even estimate. Furthermore the question is how will it perform/behave when it doesn't 'see' the proper load (a headphone instead of low impedance speaker). Thanks Frans, that will do. So it's dependent on the output traffos, from what I can imply from your writing? If we can have a matching traffo tap for 32 to say 100 ohms HPs and another tap that can account for 200 to 300 ohms and, if possible, a third tap for 500 to 600 ohms, this amp can be in HP biz, right? Btw, is there such commercial output traffos with 3 tabs of the nominal impedances for HPs impedance matching? That only you technical guys will know better. In case there would be a trafo with the suggested taps the amp could deliver 6W into those headphones. If you want to fry your drivers (by accident) that would be a way to do it. ;D Miguel's option 'sounds' better to me Yes, the bandwidth is mostly determined by the trafo but also by the overall feedback and load impedance. The sound quality is also dependent on the trafo quality for a substantial part.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 29, 2012 2:12:04 GMT
Thanks. I didn't see that. But only 0.5W.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 29, 2012 2:20:08 GMT
In case there would be a trafo with the suggested taps the amp could deliver 6W into those headphones. If you want to fry your drivers (by accident) that would be a way to do it. ;D Miguel's option 'sounds' better to me Yes, the bandwidth is mostly determined by the trafo but also by the overall feedback and load impedance. The sound quality is also dependent on the trafo quality for a substantial part. In terms of cost and complexity, Miguel solution is a much better bet but only at 0.5 W. But it's taffo coupled and so HP is protected in case of the amp throwing tantrums unexpectedly. Hmm, if it is 1W to 2W, adrenalin will be pumping thru my veins and a no brainer. Must not lose to the higher power Frans' HA but it will sound better than Frans if well designed. What can be simpler than this. OPAs? Frequency response, I think Frans will endorse it. Full specs here if anyone is interested: Description This headphone amplifier use 6N2 as preamplifier and 6N1 as output transformer driver. It can drive headphone from 32¦¸ to 600¦¸. This HP amplifier has very nice sound quality if well built. Special care must be taken on grounding to avoid hum. Features ¡¤ Pure tube design ¡¤ 6N2 as preamplifier ¡¤ 6N1 as output driver ¡¤ 6Z5P as rectifier ¡¤ 99dB SNR ¡¤ Max 500mW power ¡¤ Freq response: 10Hz-30kHz ¡À1dB ¡¤ Dimension: 320mm x 170mm x 130mm ¡¤ 2 groups RCA as input ¡¤ 1 pair RCA as preamplifier output ¡¤ 6.3mm headphone jack ¡¤ Stainless steel chasis ¡¤ Transformer output, protect your headphone Btw, anyone knows if those tubes are readily available?
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 29, 2012 4:41:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 13:24:44 GMT
I pick curtain number 1. I wonder if you can tell me why. Don't be fooled by the 1W rating. It's 'max' output and isn't specified under what conditions so basically says nothing. curtain number 2 can't be good for you Chong. It has op-amps in it and is 100 Ohm out. Why are you looking for another headphone amp b.t.w. ? Haven't you finished your build yet ?
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 29, 2012 14:16:10 GMT
Oh, I have already finish the SCHA build but didn't do the you know what mode and tidying up the build yet due to time factor. Yup, I need to build up a range (genre) of powerful HAs so that I can be as "insane" as some US youths to be trigger happy for more HPs. Heh, heh, heh ......... I'm still waiting for a powerful full tube hybrid discrete from you.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 29, 2012 14:49:52 GMT
I pick curtain number 1. I wonder if you can tell me why. Don't be fooled by the 1W rating. It's 'max' output and isn't specified under what conditions so basically says nothing. curtain number 2 can't be good for you Chong. It has op-amps in it and is 100 Ohm out. Of all, I like 1 the most as you as it's a discrete tube hybrid and powerful enough to drive almost all HPs. That's the reason why it's at number 1. The Beyer clone I put it here just for those that's interested in the A1 and didn't know that it's OPA design, btw. 3 is to complete the list from the site. So only 2 HAs interested me. 1 and the full tube kit as no other full tube traffo coupled HA of more power around. Let me make an insane guess. It has dual output for low and high impedances to maximise power for all HP impedances? Arghh, maybe I need to go to Audioasylum for a change to learn more about US insanity from a US site.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 19:38:27 GMT
I don't know the exact ins and outs of this amp but it is very possible output power in 600 Ohm headphones could be between 50mW and 100mW max. the 1W isn't specified into which load and under what distortion limits.
It appears to have 2 output sockets, 1 with high Ohmic output resistance and 1 with low Ohmic output resistance. One of very few of the shelf amps I know of that have this feature.
I am not planning a full discrete high power tube hybrid as the upcoming Ember will be powerful enough.
Your SC-HA can easily be converted to 1W or even 2W full class-A into 50 Ohm and drive the likes of HE-6/LCD-3 effortlessly, the Panda can do so as well but neither will have the added pleasant distortion the tubes would bring in the mix. Perhaps a tube buffer in front of it might help, that way it becomes a hybrid in essence.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Mar 2, 2012 7:35:09 GMT
I don't know the exact ins and outs of this amp but it is very possible output power in 600 Ohm headphones could be between 50mW and 100mW max. the 1W isn't specified into which load and under what distortion limits. It appears to have 2 output sockets, 1 with high Ohmic output resistance and 1 with low Ohmic output resistance. One of very few of the shelf amps I know of that have this feature. Feeling a bit itchy insane side. Should I pull the trigger, Frans? If below wattage expectation, you modify.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 8:01:47 GMT
To modify I would need to have it on my desk or have the schematics. It appears to have a resemblance with Indeed thingies but different current source arrangemant I guess but maybe their output arrangement is more like push-pull than single ended. Can't tell from the pics. This one: www.siliconray.com/low-price-6p3p....CFQF66wod9xxNSwappears to have marginally higher power and is full tube/trafo. The added (pleasant) distortion this brings seems to fit your needs/taste closer I believe. How you perceieve the sound subjectively of both amps I really can't predict. perhaps you should buy your preferred headphone first and then decide which amp to pair it with depending on your needs. Consider the EF-5 I know that 'itchy' feeling. Sometimes I give in and the results are below expectation. On other occasions it is what I was looking for.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Mar 2, 2012 8:33:02 GMT
To modify I would need to have it on my desk or have the schematics. No worries, I can sent it to you if things don't work out. Arrghh, the trigger is still on safe mode. Not worries not on auto mode too. It appears to have a resemblance with Indeed thingies but different current source arrangemant I guess but maybe their output arrangement is more like push-pull than single ended. Can't tell from the pics. But Indeed/Bravo only have 1 12AU7 and this one have 2 from the picture. How you perceieve the sound subjectively of both amps I really can't predict. In fact, none, subjectivist or objectivist, can with certainty without hearing one. Sorry, the link just wouldn't work. perhaps you should buy your preferred headphone first and then decide which amp to pair it with depending on your needs. Oh, I'm not trying to have a preferred HP by doing this. I'm trying to build up an arsenal of powerful HA of different genres so that most HPs can be driven or matched (objectively or subjectively) to optimum sound wise. Of course, if you ask me which HPs that I had heard that I like? Hmm, here ........ Top of the list: LCD 2 or 3 and maybe even I may like the HE6. Sorry, can only say maybe for the HE6 as had not heard one yet. Yeah, the Stax from pass memories of older Staxs. Oops, this don't need a HA, right? Heh, heh, heh ......... The ribbon HPs? Anyone, heard one yet? Second tier: Sennheiser HD800 or maybe HD700. Third tier: Sennheiser HD650, 600, 598. I like the look of the 598. It's just gorgeous, man! 3.5 tier : Sennheiser RS180 more than the 170. My moded Philips SHD8600. Sorry to all. So far no AT has impressed me yet in a hifi way when I heard them as demoed. Yup, that is with adrenalin flowing. Most Sony too. I can't remember all the Sony models I tried at the Sony Centre. Dr Dre? I saw many on display in all CD shops but didn't hear one yet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 9:18:52 GMT
If they used 2 tube halves paralleled it can be Indeed/bravo alike (construction wise) and dual mono. Another possibility is that it is more like an MF amp with a differential input stage. In this case the tube halves need good matching.
The amp will be good enough for most headphones and might only be lacking a bit driving some exotics to great performance.
Only the ortho's may benefit from huge power levels (HE-6 mostly) The LCD's can be driven to satisfactory levels with this amp.
It having a high and low resistance output can help synergise more with certain headphones. The HD598 should only be used on low output resistance amps.
the link was copied out of your first post.
Having 1 or 2 'different' desktop amps and 1 portable amp should do in most cases. Having a bunch of headphones seems more logical than a bunch of amps.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Mar 2, 2012 9:59:31 GMT
The amp will be good enough for most headphones and might only be lacking a bit driving some exotics to great performance. Only the ortho's may benefit from huge power levels (HE-6 mostly) The LCD's can be driven to satisfactory levels with this amp. So based on the worst case scenario of HE6, at what volume level will this amp be? Just a good educated guess will do. No need finite accurate answer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 11:13:16 GMT
An estimation (as I can only calculate from 'expected' output power) will be around 104dB peak. So when playing dynamic music an average level of 94dB, for classical this figure might be even lower. Loudness wars music doesn't contain peaks anymore so average levels will be around 102dB. Pop music will be around 98dB average.
With the EF-5 you can add 10dB, meaning it will go twice as loud as this amp.
Figures change when you would use LCd2-rev2 with this amp. Peak SPL will be around 118dB. (nearing pain treshold, unpleasantly LOUD) So when playing dynamic music an average level of 108dB , for classical this figure will be lower. Still more than acceptable levels considering most will listen to levels between 80dB and 90dB.
An LCD2-rev2 connected to the EF-5 and driven to max power (assuming linear behavior) would result in 128dB peak levels. before you reach those levels you are likely to have turned down the volume considerably.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 15:44:50 GMT
Don`t bother Chong, bl""dy awful things IMHO.
Mick.
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